by the way, my prediction for the front row players selected for the tour, was closer than anyone else's including yours.

JPB

I'd probably had a few and was angered that someone on a rugby board was so liberal with the delete button. Very unrugby.

As for KB, I'm pleased to see that others (Sporty and Portly for one) agree with me that he is unlucky to be overlooked.

As for the views of someone who knows so much about rugby as to describe Castrogiovanni as an Englishman - well, that's a whole other thing. Incidentally, did you notice that big Martin wasn't chosen for the Lion - as you had predicted.

I think it was clarified at the time that I meant corbisiero, but inadvertently typed castrogiovani. You insisted on making a big deal about it.

As I say, in spite of your hysterical abuse, my prediction was closer than yours anyway.

What was "very unrugby" by the way was not deleting abusive comments, but the abusive comments which you came out with, and most of which were deleted.

I went to one of the oldest public schools in the country, who won the daily mail cup twice when I was there, and we were coached by an ex England head coach. I carried on playing rugby until my late 20s.

I don't need a lecture from someone whose contributions to a sports discussion are to discuss whether other posters should be "pitied" or "laughed at" as to what is "very unrugby" thanks.

Gents. Could we get back to rugby please?

no

Ding

Correct mate. That's what I came on here to do, but JPB seems to have a downer on me - deletions, and accusations of being abusive with precious little evidence.

I think the best plan is to ignore him from now on.

Something else I noticed on the thread in which you started calling me names and ridiculing my team predictions, is that of the 8 forwards you predicted to start the first test, 5 haven't even made the plane. One of the 3 who did make it, you have now said shouldn't have done.

If infantile abuse, and hopelessly inaccurate forecasts is all I would miss out on if you and I ignored one another, then I think that that would be something which I could probably live with.

Did someone say something?

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=false+teeth+ronnie+o'sullivan+images&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=in2BUafzAsWn0wWOs4GwDQ&ved=0CC0QsAQ&biw=1518&bih=748#imgrc=OSzEXasXTWwaCM%3A%3BaRYPKFakrdicQM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fimg.thesun.co.uk%252Fmultimedia%252Farchive%252F00048%252Fa_48490a.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.thesun.co.uk%252Fsol%252Fhomepage%252Fsport%252F131343%252FRonnies-world-chomp.html%3B300%3B210

what kind of a collects his trophy in front of the guy who has just lost, wearing false teeth like that ? it was blatantly inappropriate and disrespectful at the time, and even looking at it I would still say the same thing, whether he was deliberately taking the pissss out of Dott or not. Watching it at the time, it looked like he was, but as I say either way, it was out of order - IMO.

OK,

First thoughts are that Aristodemus or Sporty described the squad as a bit weird and I'd tend to agree with that. 21 forwards and 16 backs seems rather top heavy = with only 1 inside centre and 2 fly halves I think Jamie Roberts newly acquired medical qualifications might be put to the test sooner than he thought.

Its definitely Gatland's squad and lets face it, he took Wales to Six Nations slams, whereas the best we've done on here is beat eacjh other in predictions contests!

Nonetheless, we could line up with all bar 1 of a Wales side that was whitewashyed in Australia just 10 months agon. Up front I'd have taken one less prop and can only imagine that Matt Stevens was a spelling mistake and that Gatland wanted a Cat Stevens CD. Why are we taking Gethin Jenkins? he has the same issues as Wilkinson, Hook or Sheridan have - hell he's at the same club as two of them and is being kept on the bench by Sheridan! If Sheridan was too old, why not Euan Muaary?

I'm pleased that Dylan Hartley got the cal, but why Hartley & Youngs? I tend to go with one of Hartley a& Hibbard plus Youngs - a bit quicker and more nimble and Rory Best, whose a bit more of a leader.



I don't get O'Connell, sure he has teh experience, but so does Martin Johnson or Willie John McBride - why not Launchbury or Brown. Simiarly at 8, for me this is the worst in not picking Ben Morgan.

Warburton as captain? I think he's just too beat up and needs a rest, I would have preferred Steffon Armitage here

Then at half back, I would prefer Danny Care over Philips who is just too slow for me, I think we need another fly half - if we aim to go for penlaties - as a big pack on quick hard pitches down under would suggest isn't Wilkinson your man here.

We could drop a flanker and pick another inside centre as thats asking a lot of Roberts or playing someone out of position.

Finally, whilst the strenght is power the weakness seesm to be speed, Kearney migth be able to do a bit, but the whole backs area bar Ben Youngs looks a bit cumbersome and ona quicket pitch that might be expose - Mike Brown or Simon Zebo would have been godo here

Anyway, the closest I've ever got to a Lion is London or Dublin Zoo, so what do I know, rigth?

For an hour it was like watching the world champions v a baa baas side.

Ugo monye was a weak link - he butchered one finish and one move. Phillips played well.Kearney was excellent and Roberts was superb.

wrong thread again

Hey SARS,

Was a bit taken by surprise there. First that someone came to talk sense about rugby and second that you are not your normal "find the silver lining" self.

You are pretty much echoing my own thoughts regarding Stevens and O'Connell. I wouldn't have too much of an issue if they had been playing out of their skins lately and showing consistent form. But POC played 2 lost the most important one in the Heineken cup. in recent weeks and while he does appear to be well up for it, thats not really an excuse to bring him. Same goes for stevens. Who is just a big lump of distinctly average in my humble opinion.

You raise an excellent point which i was thinking about the day the squad was announced. Where is the pace?

Bowe has pace, but no acceleration so if he don't hit the ball at full tilt its a waste of time. same can be said for Cuthbert and North. They all have reasonable pace, but they are not elusive runners. Frankly Australia has buckets more pace. So we can absolutely forget any idea of breakaway trys coming from the lions and if they get in behind us, lets say in a broken field situation, i would fear for the abilities of these guys to scramble a defence. Hogg has pace and a step i guess.

But as you rightly point out. Gatland has a very impressive trophy cabinet. So we are just going to have to trust him. and he does seem to be taking this very seriously indeed. But i just hate the idea of bash and crash rugby, which really is what this team is for. With the exception of a few players, most of these guys only know one way. Pick out a guy in front of you and smash him, then off load. Rince and repeat!

Power, that is what this squad is all about. Bowe is the smallest (bulk) winger in the squad. Only BOD is a ball playing centre. Phillips (step step hospital pass) will start the tests.
This Lions team could have been about skill and talent but Gatland wants strength. As you can guess, I am not impressed.

It does look that way Aristo.

However, perhaps there is method in the madness. Its a simple game plan. Easy to implement, which i guess is probably a factor in gatlands head. Its probably the difficulty for any lions manager. Risk a complicated style of play that may or may not work, or go for a relatively simple, bash crash wollop approach. Perhaps its not a judgment call by gatland. Perhaps he just knows no other way. I don't really know. But i don't like that style of rugby. For me it perverts the very essence of the game being a universal game for all types. Hell its written somewhere. From fatties to little guys there is a place for everyone on a rugby team.

Certainly Not this lions team.

What do you guys think about the French exclusion? The way it is going, most of the Lions quality players will end up in France and if so will that make the Lions significantly weaker. Sheridan this season has been outstanding. Sexton has been the best FH in the NH for a couple of years now. Are we happy to exclude people like this from future tours?

Aristro - I genuinely believe that we can't beat this aussie team playing expansive rugby. Solid front 5 winning the scrummage, big ball carriers in the middle and back row, and a big emphasis on where on the park the game is played. We need to put cooper under pressure having to kick from his 22. He will make mistakes, and if we have the solid pack, we can capitalize and eek penalties out of them.

On the French exclusion, I don't think there is the strength in depth in the UK & Ireland to do it. As the Lions, we are not like NZ, with the conveyor belt of talent they always seem to have coming through. It should be entirely meritocratic, and where someone decides to raise their family or live their life should have no basis in it. Even if we had someone playing in the SH, I would still have them in the squad if they were good.

I think we can beat them either way but are not certain to beat them whichever. SA have the wrecking ball mentality and it doesn't serve them brilliantly outside SA. Last week O'Connor played FH (and caused all sorts of problems for the saders) at the request of Deans so I wouldn't be so certain about Cooper yet.

The french exclusion is idiotic. Not to mention massively hypocritical. Here is one name that illustrates the why it is hypocritical. Mako Vunipola.

There are more, but whos counting! If you exclude born and bred British or Irish players because they play there club rugby on the continent then by god and all thats right you certainly should exclude players who are from the southern hemisphere and qualify marginally due to this residency rule.

So the best thing is to not exclude the French playing players. Its stupid in my humble opinion.

Well that is slightly more complicated Ding. I think if someone moves to a country as a child, like Mako did, then that is fine. Maitland however is clearly over here because he was shunned by the AB's and less than a year later he finds himself in a Lions squad.
A deal needs to be struck between the players who leave for France, collectively, so that if selected as a Lion they are permitted to leave for the camp when the camp begins.

Funnily enough Sexton did just that. He put Racing Metro to the sword with regards to being available to ireland. No messing, No BS. Take it or leave it kinda thing. Because we have seen a lot of this in the recent past with players who went over there and didn't think it through only to run into serious contractual issues regarding the National selection.

Quite right about Mako, no problem with that. But my point stands. If you are here and qualify on this residency rule, then it stands to reason that lads who play for a french club are just as much eligible as a tourist like Maitland.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

PS - some weird posts going on here recently - not you gents or the usual rugby lot - well as many as we get but some real odd stuff, I wondered if Garteh Chilcott had been at teh aftershave again and set himself up with an ID