It will be interesting to see Roberts unleashed, has recently qualified as a doctor so I wonder if study etc for this has affected his game a bit.

Think you are being a bit harsh, if the back 3 and centres click they could run riot. Agree the halfbacks look thin, back row is full of depth as is the second row. Front row is fine.

Think you're being harsh on the second-rows. A fully fit AWJ is a quality second-row, as well as an in-form O'Connell. Parling had a good 6 nations too.

I'm very disappointed that Rory Best isn't touring, he is comfortably a better option than Dylan Hartley particularly, and probably better than Youngs & Hibbard.

Also harsh on the centres. Tuilagi, Davies & BOD are decent options in the centre. Be interested to see what Roberts does this tour, if he starts (which I don't think he will).

I seriously rate Dan Cole as a prop, his scrummaging is top notch and he's very strong over the ball.

Best should definitely have gone over Hartley, the only thing Dylan brings thats positive is his scrummaging and we wont need that versus Australia anyways.

The locks are ok but young in most cases. The backrow has some classy performers from Wales, I would have taken Wood though - he's immense. Agree the eights aren't anything special.

Half-back is definitely weak but centres, wings and full back are all ok.

So overall I'd say it's average. I do think the midweek team will be better than average as there is more strength in depth.

Dan Cole only seems to scrummage well when Alex Corbisiero is in the team

Dan Cole's work rate is immense gets around the field alot wins turnovers suited to playing vs Australia

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Just put up the starting team on the first test of the last 4 tours.

FRONT ROW
97 and 2001 stand out as the best. 2013 and 2005 the weakest units, with 2005 arguably the weakest.

SECOND ROW
again 97 are the best. As we know though shaw came on in 09 and created a unit to rival the ones with Johnson in. 2013 arguably on a par with 05 again as the joint weakest.

BACK ROW
2009 was a weak year. 97 the strongest again. 13 arguably on a par with 01 in mid table.

HALF BACK
2013 not that far behind 09 is Phillips is on fire again, but not fit to draw breath in comparison with the others.

CENTRES
Some very strong pairings in there, with 2013 again not likely to match any of them.

BACK 3
2005 the strongest. 2013 could better 2009, 05 and 97.

John1 I'm convinced Parling doesn't push hard enough in the scrum. And to be fair the whole English scrum is better with Corbs since Mako and Marler aren't anywhere near as good as him there.

Is this the weakest Lions squad in memory ?

Quite possibly. Could have done with a few more Scots - and one less. Richie Gray doesn't warrant his place but

1. What has Conor Murray done this season that Greig Laidlaw hasn't?
2. What have O'Brien, Heaslip or Croft done this season that Kelly Brown hasn't? Stats for club and country are vastly superior, as is his effectiveness in doing the dog work.
3. Are Cole and Stevens both better props than than Euan Murray. Around the park, maybe Cole is a wee bit sharper, but props are there primarily for scrummaging. In that department, Cole is the Emperor's New Clothes.

Waltzing o Driscoll at twelve and Manu at 13 I reckon will be devastating. Not convinced about Sefton but he is the best ten on the isles, If cipriani had progressed and sorted his head out he'd have been a shoe in, sadly it has turned out the lad is a prime k n ob who thought he was brilliant. Agree about front row but I do think we'll take aussie pack apart. Can't wait, wish I was going.

Sadly I think ODriscoll's waltzing days may be behind him.

It would not surprise me if Davies and Tuilagi are in the test line up.

Re Cipriani - Sadly his career went when he broke his leg.

JPB
Mate im gonna assume you don't see much of O'Driscoll playing regularly. But he has had a very good season. As Well as extending the six nations all time try scoring record, he's been brilliant with Leinster. Its been a few years since i saw him this sharp. He's the best center in europe hands down at the moment.

No, I just watched him in the 6 nations, and he was a shadow of the player he used to be. If his form has been better for Leinster and he can reproduce that form for the Lions instead of his Ireland form, then that would be great. Based on what (relatively little) of him ive seen this season though, I am not expecting anything.

I would put my mortgage on gatland setting up Roberts and BOD again. The SA lions 4 years ago, they were the best center partnership i have ever seen. And i do mean ever. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCVCXiVecl4 hahaha

so tragic that the Lions lost that series. I did an article a while back about greatest sporting disappointments, and that was one of my top 5. Nothing in rugby I can remember to match that.

OGara

Ye, not one for O'Gara highlight reel. That was a good lions team. They should have won. They lost that game because of an error at the end by ROG, but they lost the series for vastly different reasons.

go on...

if someone asked me why the Lions lost the series, I'd say foul play by south Africa, and o gara's late tackle.

The Lions had a great side in 97, but arguably won the series in spite of being the weaker side. In 09 they matched SA in every game, but still lost. To me the margins were fine, and that O'Gara moment of madness can fairly be blamed as the moment which lost the Lions the series.

Miss management is the ultimate reason they lost, and particularly selecting the wrong team in the first test. O'Gara's mistake in the second test was a howler, and something he has never shied away from. But i find it particularly amusing that people don't remember the level of arrogance in the selecting in the run up to the 1st test. the games against the club sides was like watching the BaaBaas. the structure and cohesion was not there and it should have been the first priority. Thats where the Lions always fail, when they don't get together and sort themselves by doing the basics properly. Thats down to the managers.
SA were a good team, but the Lions were light years ahead of them or at least would have been if the management had got them into a rhythm.

All very nicely illustrated in the 3rd dead rubber test where the lions utterly demolished SA. When the team picked itself and geech was on the outs. So for me its simple, one test went down to a mistake, and a mistake that shouldn't have happened, the lions should have been 15 point ahead at that point. I'm not one for ref bashing, but i remember some serious "home team" decisions as well. There were several factors, not just a mistake by one player.

I don't think you can take too much out of a dead rubber personally. The series was the first 2 games. It was finished by the 3rd game.

You can take what you want from them i guess, thats a matter of perspective. What i saw in the 3rd test and what was reported here, was a serious lack of faith in geech, player power took over, and i know for a fact the players from all the nations rallied around ROG behind closed doors, when the manager was selling him down the river in the media.

With a 35+ squad and 3 games to get the job done, i certainly wouldn't blame one person for losing the series the players knew that as well.

Ultimately i call mismanagement on that loss.

To me that's in danger of doing a little bit of disservice to that tour. The first two tests were both amongst the greatest sporting contests ive ever seen. So to me claiming that one of the sides was burdened mis-mismanagement and poor team selection strikes me as being a little unfair. One thing that I do seem to recall now was someone in the first test butchering a couple of chances; I wouldn't like to put a name on it because im not sure, but I wonder whether it might have been mike Phillips.

Phillips had a nightmare tour.To put it simply. But he has matured a lot since then.
Im not convinced on our currant selection at SH either. Obviously Phillips had to go as a winning SH.Clear choice. Buy connor murray? Im irish, but i certainly wouldn't have selected murray. The only conclusion i can come to it that he is bulky like phillips and so can defend better against will genia who is a genius. Call me old fashioned, but i prefer a SH who can pass.

Still i expect we will win the series. 2-1 im tempted to sat 3 zip.

I think the half backs in general are way below standard on this tour Ding. Phillips and Sexton might just about be able to form a competent partnership, but it's not really of Lions test calibre, and beyond that pairing the options are woeful. Im not sure I would blame the selectors too much though, I just think that Ire and GB are very short of talent at half back atm.

Im 50 minutes into the first test atm.

Have to say ive changed my mind a little bit.

The lions's scrums and line outs have not been working. Also though, they have struggled at the breakdown, giving away several penalties, and they were also powerfless to stop a SA rolling maul which led to a try.

Vickery's selection was obviously a mistake, and Shaw should have played over Wyn Jones.

I thought Phillips did a lot of good stuff on that tour personally. He butchered a chance in the first half, but the 2nd one which I think I blamed him for at the time, was not really his fault.

The south Africa side were very very good indeed.

mears was probably a selection error as well. the line out has improved since rees has come on.

I said the other day I didn't think any welsh player could say they missed out on the 2013 tour, but what about lee byrne ?!

btw, one comical thing about the game im watching is that the French tmo couldn't speak English, and both times he's been called on the ref has basically had to take it into his own hands because he cant understand what the tmo is saying.

For an hour it was like watching the world champions v a baa baas side.

Ugo monye was a weak link - he butchered one finish and one move. Phillips played well.Kearney was excellent and Roberts was superb.