Please god no not again

Someone capable of producing something out of nothing.

As with anyother role in a football team, it's alot more than mere stats. A creative player sets the tempo, creates spaces for others to exploit, and his passing is utterly efficient.

Go back to how Zidane used to play. I haven't a clue about his stats for goals or assists, but Zidane was the epitome of a creative player. Every movement, dribble and pass seemed to be the most efficient option. Someone who knew what was the right pass for the best of the team.

I remember this debate last year.

Apparently Valenica was a creative player

Players like Valencia when he was good, and Navas are also creative.

Apparently Valenica was a creative player
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United fans!

For me, the best "Creative" players in my lifetime

1. Zidane
2. Ronaldinho
3. Bergkamp

This will probably sound a bit far-fetched and probably pretentious, but I think for a player to be creative, as you say, Dubbed, they have to be intelligent - in the same way as when you play chess, or snooker, every move or shot you make is not just about that move/shot but the next one, the one after than and further.

A creative player is one who not just sees a pass and executes it, but sees a series of passes to manipulate the opposition and fashion a goalscoring opportunity. Again referencing other sports, batsmen in cricket will play certain shots purely to manipulate the field so that they might benefit further down the road, and a creative player will do this with passing and both on an off the ball movement - a seemingly innocuous can be much more, moving opposing player around to create crucial space, and as well know football is all about space.

That is why when you have more than one creative player playing - for example when we've player Cazorla and Rosicky together, and even the 20mins against Sunderland where Arshavin played with Santi, they seemed on the same wavelength, and worked well together, because in both cases each player was thinking ahead and anticipating the next pass/move.

There is more to it than that, but that summarises my interpretation of creativity.

Creative = Bergkamp, Xavi, Zidane, Cesc, Iniesta etc

I define creative more as a player who can see something which other players can't. Players with outstanding vision and reading of the game, that's creative.

"This will probably sound a bit far-fetched and probably pretentious, but I think for a player to be creative, as you say, Dubbed, they have to be intelligent - in the same way as when you play chess, or snooker, every move or shot you make is not just about that move/shot but the next one, the one after than and further.

A creative player is one who not just sees a pass and executes it, but sees a series of passes to manipulate the opposition and fashion a goalscoring opportunity. Again referencing other sports, batsmen in cricket will play certain shots purely to manipulate the field so that they might benefit further down the road, and a creative player will do this with passing and both on an off the ball movement - a seemingly innocuous can be much more, moving opposing player around to create crucial space, and as well know football is all about space.

That is why when you have more than one creative player playing - for example when we've player Cazorla and Rosicky together, and even the 20mins against Sunderland where Arshavin played with Santi, they seemed on the same wavelength, and worked well together, because in both cases each player was thinking ahead and anticipating the next pass/move.

There is more to it than that, but that summarises my interpretation of creativity."

Excellent post. Exactly how I see it.

"I remember this debate last year.
Apparently Valenica was a creative player "

Look at some of the comments on there. Shocking stuff.

http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/121943

Trophies make players creative Dubbed, trophies

God you're obsessed kneerash.

Trophies make players creative Dubbed
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Stewart Downing certainly was creative last year!

God you're obsessed kneerash

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So out of interest, apart from Valencia last year, can you give some examples of players with good chance creation or assist stats who aren't "creative" in your view? Presumably it's mainly traditional wingers and guys who take a lot of corners?

It's subjective I suppose, but I don't see a problem with defining a creative player as someone who creates [chances]. I think people in this thread are mixing the definitions of "creative" and "playmaker".

Stewart Downing certainly was creative last year!

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He's a workhorse (or workdonkey), Suarez , Couthino and Gerrard provided the creativity

"So out of interest, apart from Valencia last year, can you give some examples of players with good chance creation or assist stats who aren't "creative" in your view? "

Walcott, Podolski, & Lennon are a few examples. None of those guys are creative at all, yet they got good assist rate last, especially the first two.

"It's subjective I suppose, but I don't see a problem with defining a creative player as someone who creates [chances]. I think people in this thread are mixing the definitions of "creative" and "playmaker"."

What people look at those when they describe is the actual definition of the word 'creative' more than anything.
I personally disagree with that notion. There's a lot more skill to it, than just lifting crosses into the box.

What people look at those when they describe is the actual definition of the word 'creative' more than anything.

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Well yes but what's wrong with that? I do get what you mean but you are not re-writing the dictionary here just because you're talking about footballers. There are plenty of words to describe those with great vision, intelligence, skill, awareness, passing range etc. that you and someday are talking about ("playmaker" being one I already mentioned). Can't "creative" just be left to mean "someone who creates"? Makes sense to me.

"Well yes but what's wrong with that? I do get what you mean but you are not re-writing the dictionary here just because you're talking about footballers."

Words can sometimes take different meaning when you place them in a different context. They can be adaptable and used differently.
I think it's a bit too simplistic to say 'creative' is someone who just creates chances. And leave it at that.

"There are plenty of words to describe those with great vision, intelligence, skill, awareness, passing range etc. that you and someday are talking about ("playmaker" being one I already mentioned)."

A playmaker? Yes. But what about the creative wingers, second strikers or forwards?
Guys like Ribery, Jovetic, Totti, Hazard, Di Maria, etc. They're not what one would call a 'playmaker'. Attacking players from different positions can be creative, so it broadens things.

All messing aside Dubbed, I see your point and it makes sense but allot of people will look at the terminology of "chances created" and consider a player who creates chances as creative. Now I know you don't put much faith in stats which is fair enough but I'd say your thought process would be in the minority. I guess it all comes down to how you define creative.

Valencia is a good example, he'd a huge number of assists a couple of season back, his style is very direct, get the ball, run very fast, get to the by-line and cross it in. He's basically a better version of Kevin Kilbane. He's hardly a creative player like say Berkamp, Zidane etc. but he was certainly effective that season in terms of what he offered his team, i.e. goals by the bucket load.

I'm sure there are plenty of managers out there who would rather sign an effective player like Valencia who gave results rather then a technically more gifted player who when his stats for the season are looked at had little effect directly on his team scoring goals.

Of course there is a flip side that the more creative player could play deeper, he would be heavily involved in the build up play but may not necessarily play the final ball to assist in a goal but the final ball would never have been played had he not been involved in the build up, is this what you mean?

Someone like say Alonso who might play a perfect pass onto Di Maria's toe and Di Maria would simply lay it across goal to Ronaldo for a tap in, Ronaldo gets the goal and Di Maria the assist but if not for Alonso's original pass then the goal would never have been scored. Alonso’s contribution statistically would seem minimal but it was vital to the goal being scored. I’d say at club level they would look at stats in much more detail, key passes etc. Also they obviously go to watch the player and make judgements based on his performance live and not just on his stats.

Any player who regularly creates chances is creative. There are different type of creators of course, players like Iniesta, Ozil, Fabregas etc create chances using their great passing ability, vision etc. Players like Walcott are more direct, they create chances using pace, movement, crosses and etc.

btw Dubbed, here's one for you:

http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/211515

enjoy