Sterling ahead of Ince

It's not that they take it more seriously than us, it's that they have better players than us.

Keane? Really?

As in Will Keane who has missed the entire season with injury and never started a first team game?

Good call.

He'd still be an upgrade on Sordell an Connor Wickham.

Butland was crap
Caulker was crap
Chalobah adds nothing to that team
Zaha is crap
Ince was 99% innefectual

--------------Butland
Wisdom--Caulker--Jones--Shaw
--------Chalobah---Will Hughes
--Zaha------------Wilshere------------Sterling
-------------------Wickham

He'd still be an upgrade on Sordell an Connor Wickham
-------------------------------------------------------
Probably fair. My biggest gripe with the U21s is the continued persistence with players who will never be good enough, ahead of those who are very very young, but will almost certainly be good enough.

E.g. Rose ahead of Shaw, Lansbury ahead of Hughes

Bloody hell. Crap strikers all round in England's future.

That's a fair point, and I agree.

I really don't think Wilshere should be anywhere near the under 21's.

People complain about players such as the aforementioned Lansbury taking up the place of a perhaps more talented youngster and then want arguably the best midfielder in the England team playing just because he's eligible (not that he was this summer).

What use is it having these young players get to a tournament to then be replaced by better players because they are young enough?

Spain have distorted people's view of the under 21's. the reason they have these players in their squad is not because they take it more seriously, it's because they aren't good enough for the senior team - such is the depth of talent.

------------------------Butland---
--Jenkinson---Caulker--Jones--Shaw
-----------------------Chalobah-------
----------------Rodwell------WIlshere---
------Sterling/Ince---------------------Ox--
---------------------------Zaha------------

That team will get places!

DTKF, i disagree on Wilshere.

I would make him captain.

DDG is arguably the best Spanish goalkeeper in atm (Casillas really has not been impressive in the past 18 months) yet he played.

Now, i agree with your second point in that the talent pool that Spain has is quite frankly ridiculous but England has never really taken this tournament seriously. The likes of Ozil cut their cloth in this tournament ffs before he was awarded a senior team cap in an era where German senior team was sh't on a stick.

Is it worth sticking senior squad starters such as Wilshere in there? With these tournaments the emphasis is more on the experience than winning. By the time the next U21 tournament comes around, Wilshere will (hopefully) have played in a WC. What will he gain out of it? Is it not more useful to give someone else a shot?

Nice to see will hughes getting the recognition he deserves. His reputation can only grow, I'm looking forward to seeing him next season with his first season under his belt, I truly believe (as long as when he gets his big move its the right one) that will hughes and jack wilshere are the future of englands centre midfield.

Nice to see will hughes getting the recognition he deserves.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Indeed.

Before United signed Zaha, i stated many times that if i was to pick a player from the Championship, i'd pick Will Hughes.

IMO, the lad has the X-factor. Under the right tutelage, i firmly believe he could be England's brightest shining light in the near future.

RC / Will Hughes

I really hope he doesn't end up in a Chelsea or City shirt as the best English player of his generation. Moyes! Get in now!

I can't agree about Wilshere. There's no point him playing in qualifying as we need him for the senior team. If we don't have anyone as good as him in the under 21's then it's tough, as we don't really have anyone as good as him in the senior team, so he's now become a very important player.

Whether we take it as serious is guess work - I don't think we can draw these conclusions from the squad selection. Ozil was just a prospect when he tore up the under 21's, he wasn't part of the first team fold so I don't think what other countries do with their prospects and what England do should correlate. Wilshere is ahead of Ozil in his development as he's played far more international and CL football than Ozil.

A more accurate example would be Germany's reluctance to call up Draxler, Kroos, Gundogan and Gotze. It's perfectly understandable and justifiable that these players weren't called up. The fact they went out of the group stages doesn't matter.

As for the OP, before we talk about the selection I think we need to have establish what part the U21s plays in the overall strategy for English football. Are we using it to get our best players used to winning just before they graduate to the senior team / when they are already playing for it? Or are we using it as a stepping stone for less experienced players? Is it about winning or about developing?

I think the reason teams like Spain pick established performers isn't so much to do with taking the competition more seriously, but a product of the plethora of talent in the senior team, meaning that young stars who'd definitely get into the England XI are still waiting their turn.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=VXLmFpGa4BM

For your viewing pleasure, his virtuoso performance against the mutually hated leeds united, the tackle at 2.15 and the mazy run at around 4 mins being my favourites, along with the disguised pass to set up conor sammon.

wtf

wheres the real pride

Red_cognosente, hughes and zaha are obviously totally different types of players. I would rather have hughes. 3 years zahas junior and with more potential imo. Zaha is very good, but he is a flair player and will hughes is, from what I've seen, probably the closest thing we have to the "continental" style of player, he could easily be spanish the way he plays the game, he's like a baby xavi. Most of our fans, including a lot of the older generation, are all agreed that he is the best young player derby have ever produced. When I saw him make his debut in the last match of the 2011-2012 season having just turned 16 I knew he was a special prospect. Plus we love the fact that the forest fans come on our boards and mock him in some jealous rage because he is worth more than their entire starting 11

harpertheram

How long do you think Derby will hang on to him? Do you have any indications that the big clubs are sniffing around with a view to an imminent bid? I guess at his age, there is a strong chance he'd be loaned back to Derby for a season or two if he was sold now.

How long do you think Derby will hang on to him? Do you have any indications that the big clubs are sniffing around with a view to an imminent bid?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

City, Arsenal and Chelsea were seriously looking at making bids.

And there was usual nonsense of the likes of Barca wanting him.

RC

He'd seem like a classic case for the Glazer 'value' business model. I'd like to think we're monitoring this seriously.

I also hope he gets to develop his game at the right pace.

Hughes looks a talent from the snippets I've seen.

I've read a few interviews and he seems a very clever and level headed young man. This is fantastic as the inevitable hyperbole that will surround him if he makes the step up may not go to his head like it has with some players.

What do people make of Nick Powell?

I've probably seen as much of Nick Powell, even though he's a United player, than I have of Hughes, and the latter has impressed me far more.

What does the future hold for Powell if Hughes was brought in?

Hughes needs to make wise career choices at this stage. This might be as painful for you to hear as it is for me to say, but given his style of play, Liverpool could be a good destination for him in the not too distant future.