Cox is hit and miss and on Sat he was clearly a miss. Should have scored two at least and if the first one goes in then it's a different game. Not sure who replaces him though.
Fox was excellent in his first few games but is suffering from the changes to the team around him. He'll be fine, he's just had two poor games against decent sides. Funnily enough his form has dropped since Reid got injured.
Seriously guys, no winding up intended, don't you think players just do not perform for Billy that little bit extra that makes all the difference?
My theory, based on more past disillusionment with Billy than you fans have, is that players soon see the club is run for Billy's sake rather than Billy doing it for the club and the fans.
I may be wrong in that, but you can't escape the conclusion that there is some sort of bar on players giving their all and more. On paper you have more than enough talent.
Seriously guys, no winding up intended, don't you think players just do not perform for Billy that little bit extra that makes all the difference?
-------------------
No, I think they play more for Billy than other managers. Look at the likes of Chambers, Camp, Anderson, Earnshaw etc who thrived under Billy but have been poor elsewhere. There are examples where players have gone elsewhere and done well but generally he is a great motivator.
Hello Caniggia
You maybe right about the players mentioned. But I contend they're all history, before Billy's self-centredness showed up.
If you are now correct, why can't he do it no?. From here it looks like a solid case of no motivation. Even with all your injuries, you have excellent players but they just aren't cutting it.
And, whilst it seems unlikely, it's happened too many times in my football watching history, there is some correlation between the number of injuries and the enjoyment players get from really wanting to play for the manager.
I repeat - no wind-up or gloating. It's a very interesting aspect of football management.
I'm not sure we have 11 excellent players fit and available at the moment. I think we have an excellent GK who is doing well, bar one dodgy moment against Leicester. We have one excellent CB in Lascelles but he is young and inexperienced and suffers from playing alongside Collins and Halford who don't have the quality to play in a promotion chasing side for me. I wouldn't call them excellent, although I think Halford can do a job upfront. We have a decent LB in Fox but at RB we don't have an excellent option when Halford plays there. He does OK but Lichaj and Jara are far superior. In central midfield we are at our weakest currently. Jara is good and I certainly wouldn't complain about him, he's a good squad option, although RB is his better position. Moussi is poor and is barely Championship standard. Greening is a coach and hadn't started for two years until Saturday. He's not an excellent option. The wide options are quite good with Mackie who is quite effective and I certainly wouldn't complain about him. We are suffering hugely from the absence of Reid who is our best player. Upfront we have Paterson who is on fire at the moment and is without doubt an excellent player. Cox can be excellent although was very poor against Wigan. I have no complaints with our striking options because we have quite a few but they are suffering from the lack of creativity in midfield (no Vaughan, Lansbury or Reid. Oh and I forgot Majewski, he was excellent 3 years ago but now, well he's prerry ineffective unfortunately.
OK, Clear expression of your view. We'll see what happens. Could be you'll get them all back in time for the play-offs.
What did you think of Wigan? They were one of the hardest team to come to the Ipro but not pretty. Big bruising players breaking up play around the half-way line by clogging and clattering and that German manager has them well organised. But committed few fouls in dangerous position
A number of ex players who worked under Billy talk about his motivation skills and attention to detail being really good. If the point was a decent one and not filled with the usual repetitive hate filled anti Billy bias that gets posted almost daily by Pramdini, then I VERY much doubt they would be looking back with such positivity.
We know what your opinion is, can you stop trying to push it on us everyday please. I would hope you have better things to do and as mentioned elsewhere today, stuff like this is killing the boards.
I don't filter people these days, but you're getting to a point where I think people need to start doing so (including me)
Our issue litterally boils down to our weakness at the centre of the park due to injuries, rather than billy. In this league if you boss midfield 4/5 times your onto a winner as seen earlier in the season. It can make up for weaknesses at both front and back.
The 3 man dynamo is what our entire play is built round. Not surprisingly as the last man of that dynamo is out, it's the last straw and form nose dives.
Pato can maybe make up for the lose of reid, but moussi and Jara are not even in the same league as lans and Vaughan
Ramdini,
I only saw the first half on a very dodgy live stream but I thought Wigan were decent. They were very quick to close down and made it very hard for our midfielders to get any balls to the striker. They then broke at pace or lumped balls forward and with that back 4 and central midfield we were always going to struggle. Saying that, 4-1 did flatter them. We should have been 2-0 up had we had a better finisher than Cox.
I don't get why Cox has lost confidence again, he must very quick to do that. Most strikers are confidence players but he just started to score a few not long ago
We have not just become an awful team overnight because of lack of confidence.
A fortnight ago when we played Fester with Reid, we were all disappointed that we didn't win as we deserved to and we didn't even play at our best.
This week without him, the hole that he left with the other injuries on top is too great and when the 3rd goal went in, we were shown up.
With 3 of our best players back shortly hopefully in Wilson, rumours of Lansbury and the big one of Reid, we will finish top 6 and if Vaughan gets back we will be strong going into the playoffs.
If we don't go up, then we have a very good squad i.e our first choice XI and with a few tweaks in summer we would surely be one of the favourites next year.
Saying that, i want to go up this year still!
People from Derby say we are still amazing with our current team and it is all Billy that we have not performed in the last 3 games so I wanted to do a comparison between our first Xi and the team on Saturday.
First XI
Darlow
Lichaj, Hobbs, Wilson/Lascelles, Fox
Cohen,Lansbury
Mackie,Reid,Paterson
Cox/Hendo
Our Team on Saturday
Darlow
Halford (as Lichaj only lasted 30),Collins,Lascelles,Fox
Jara,Greening
Mackie,Majewski,Paterson
Cox
The heart of thje above team has been ripped out of the team above, and you think with 6 of our best XI out, you don't think this would make a difference derby fans?
Take any 6 of your first XI out and see how much difference it would make!
One thing that got me thinking from this, is that we have a dam good starting XI (when fit.....)
Spot on SBD, although for our best 11 I'd have Cohen LB and Vaughan alongside Lansbury.
As far as i can see only Ramdini has said made those comments, one person does not constitute "Derby fans" ffs.
Hmm that was a hard one Caniggia and took me a bit of time to think about it, but just picked the team above as I jsut slightly prefer Cohen in midfield.
Monkey has hit the nail on the head though with his summing up.
For those saying this is Billy obviously have no clue about Football. We went on a 14 match unbeaten run even when we had the last of the heart of the team Reid involved. There is no coincidence to going from disappointed not to have beaten Leicester with Reid, to looking out of the fight when we had Greening instead of Reid!
If we had the team above and were struggling then of course questions could be raised. But there is absolutely no way you can blame Billy with this with the injuries we have and the unbeaten run we had when Reid was in the team!
With the supposed return of 3 of our best XI back in the next 10 days then we will (as long as they stay fit) make the playoffs!
Regarding the OP I'm very surprised at how under-whelming Cox appears to have been for Forest. Seemed a terrific signing at the time but he seems to be going backwards with age.
It comes down to the age old fraction we have in the Forest fans of the majority who think Billy is the best man for the job (whether they think he is great or just support the view that he is the best man) and those who will never like him no matter what he does and will keep coming back whenever we have a stutter. (i.e they believe and agree with the sheep's view of him, who 9 times out of 10 don't even go to the matches!)
Regarding the OP I'm very surprised at how under-whelming Cox appears to have been for Forest. Seemed a terrific signing at the time but he seems to be going backwards with age.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
He has actually been more prolific (if you can use that words) this year. He just needs the delivery and our creative players back. He is a goal poacher rather then creator!
With Reid, Lansbury and Vaughan back then he will come good again.
I think most of us thought he was a likely 20 goal a season man when you signed him SBD, I know Derby were in for him too and was secretly a bit miffed when he ended up with you. I think we were all basing our view on his record at Swindon though, rather than any proven track record at this level. In saying that a lot depends on the number of chances a team creates for their strikers, who would have predicted Martin would score so many this season for us?
True, Marco. For me Coz never really looks happy unless he has another striker alongside him to shoulder some of the responsibility. He played his best spell at Forest last season with Sharp alongside him.
Martin has been the surprise package at Derby. I recall last summer it was Russell you were all backing to be the one!
Yes and many were questioning the logic of signing Martin at all! How quickly reputations can rise and fall.
The beauty of sport. A bit of hard work and luck and you sometimes get your reward.
Who did he play for before Norwich?
Will;
He came through at Norwich and scored plenty in their league one promotion season before becoming a sub/reserve as they went up to the Prem. Various loans then followed without ever settling anywhere - I think he was on loan at Swindon and scored something like 1 in 15 or 20 games just before we then signed him on loan - so the 'stats' didn't suggest he would be a great signing.
When we had him on loan you could see he had a decent touch but looked unfit - probably a combination of being shunted from club-to-club and losing motivation? We then signed him on a free and people were unenthused to say the least, but he's been an absolute revelation for us - one of the keys to our 'success' has been his ability to play on his own up front and keep hold of it to launch our pacy attacks.
Just shows you never can tell - sometimes something as simple as being settled off the field and feeling wanted at a club is all somebody needs and they look twice the player.
I think we as football fans often forget players are human beings with human problems/feelings/etc too and not robots!
Quite right. Yes they get paid well over the odds but money doesn't make you completely happy. Being settled in the team also helps rather than being constantly rotated but that's a story for another day...
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Simon Cox and Danny Fox
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posted on 2/3/14
Cox is hit and miss and on Sat he was clearly a miss. Should have scored two at least and if the first one goes in then it's a different game. Not sure who replaces him though.
Fox was excellent in his first few games but is suffering from the changes to the team around him. He'll be fine, he's just had two poor games against decent sides. Funnily enough his form has dropped since Reid got injured.
posted on 3/3/14
Seriously guys, no winding up intended, don't you think players just do not perform for Billy that little bit extra that makes all the difference?
My theory, based on more past disillusionment with Billy than you fans have, is that players soon see the club is run for Billy's sake rather than Billy doing it for the club and the fans.
I may be wrong in that, but you can't escape the conclusion that there is some sort of bar on players giving their all and more. On paper you have more than enough talent.
posted on 3/3/14
Seriously guys, no winding up intended, don't you think players just do not perform for Billy that little bit extra that makes all the difference?
-------------------
No, I think they play more for Billy than other managers. Look at the likes of Chambers, Camp, Anderson, Earnshaw etc who thrived under Billy but have been poor elsewhere. There are examples where players have gone elsewhere and done well but generally he is a great motivator.
posted on 3/3/14
Hello Caniggia
You maybe right about the players mentioned. But I contend they're all history, before Billy's self-centredness showed up.
If you are now correct, why can't he do it no?. From here it looks like a solid case of no motivation. Even with all your injuries, you have excellent players but they just aren't cutting it.
And, whilst it seems unlikely, it's happened too many times in my football watching history, there is some correlation between the number of injuries and the enjoyment players get from really wanting to play for the manager.
I repeat - no wind-up or gloating. It's a very interesting aspect of football management.
posted on 3/3/14
I'm not sure we have 11 excellent players fit and available at the moment. I think we have an excellent GK who is doing well, bar one dodgy moment against Leicester. We have one excellent CB in Lascelles but he is young and inexperienced and suffers from playing alongside Collins and Halford who don't have the quality to play in a promotion chasing side for me. I wouldn't call them excellent, although I think Halford can do a job upfront. We have a decent LB in Fox but at RB we don't have an excellent option when Halford plays there. He does OK but Lichaj and Jara are far superior. In central midfield we are at our weakest currently. Jara is good and I certainly wouldn't complain about him, he's a good squad option, although RB is his better position. Moussi is poor and is barely Championship standard. Greening is a coach and hadn't started for two years until Saturday. He's not an excellent option. The wide options are quite good with Mackie who is quite effective and I certainly wouldn't complain about him. We are suffering hugely from the absence of Reid who is our best player. Upfront we have Paterson who is on fire at the moment and is without doubt an excellent player. Cox can be excellent although was very poor against Wigan. I have no complaints with our striking options because we have quite a few but they are suffering from the lack of creativity in midfield (no Vaughan, Lansbury or Reid. Oh and I forgot Majewski, he was excellent 3 years ago but now, well he's prerry ineffective unfortunately.
posted on 3/3/14
Pretty not prerry
posted on 3/3/14
OK, Clear expression of your view. We'll see what happens. Could be you'll get them all back in time for the play-offs.
What did you think of Wigan? They were one of the hardest team to come to the Ipro but not pretty. Big bruising players breaking up play around the half-way line by clogging and clattering and that German manager has them well organised. But committed few fouls in dangerous position
posted on 3/3/14
A number of ex players who worked under Billy talk about his motivation skills and attention to detail being really good. If the point was a decent one and not filled with the usual repetitive hate filled anti Billy bias that gets posted almost daily by Pramdini, then I VERY much doubt they would be looking back with such positivity.
We know what your opinion is, can you stop trying to push it on us everyday please. I would hope you have better things to do and as mentioned elsewhere today, stuff like this is killing the boards.
I don't filter people these days, but you're getting to a point where I think people need to start doing so (including me)
posted on 3/3/14
Our issue litterally boils down to our weakness at the centre of the park due to injuries, rather than billy. In this league if you boss midfield 4/5 times your onto a winner as seen earlier in the season. It can make up for weaknesses at both front and back.
The 3 man dynamo is what our entire play is built round. Not surprisingly as the last man of that dynamo is out, it's the last straw and form nose dives.
Pato can maybe make up for the lose of reid, but moussi and Jara are not even in the same league as lans and Vaughan
posted on 3/3/14
Ramdini,
I only saw the first half on a very dodgy live stream but I thought Wigan were decent. They were very quick to close down and made it very hard for our midfielders to get any balls to the striker. They then broke at pace or lumped balls forward and with that back 4 and central midfield we were always going to struggle. Saying that, 4-1 did flatter them. We should have been 2-0 up had we had a better finisher than Cox.
posted on 3/3/14
I don't get why Cox has lost confidence again, he must very quick to do that. Most strikers are confidence players but he just started to score a few not long ago
posted on 3/3/14
We have not just become an awful team overnight because of lack of confidence.
A fortnight ago when we played Fester with Reid, we were all disappointed that we didn't win as we deserved to and we didn't even play at our best.
This week without him, the hole that he left with the other injuries on top is too great and when the 3rd goal went in, we were shown up.
With 3 of our best players back shortly hopefully in Wilson, rumours of Lansbury and the big one of Reid, we will finish top 6 and if Vaughan gets back we will be strong going into the playoffs.
If we don't go up, then we have a very good squad i.e our first choice XI and with a few tweaks in summer we would surely be one of the favourites next year.
Saying that, i want to go up this year still!
posted on 3/3/14
People from Derby say we are still amazing with our current team and it is all Billy that we have not performed in the last 3 games so I wanted to do a comparison between our first Xi and the team on Saturday.
First XI
Darlow
Lichaj, Hobbs, Wilson/Lascelles, Fox
Cohen,Lansbury
Mackie,Reid,Paterson
Cox/Hendo
Our Team on Saturday
Darlow
Halford (as Lichaj only lasted 30),Collins,Lascelles,Fox
Jara,Greening
Mackie,Majewski,Paterson
Cox
The heart of thje above team has been ripped out of the team above, and you think with 6 of our best XI out, you don't think this would make a difference derby fans?
Take any 6 of your first XI out and see how much difference it would make!
One thing that got me thinking from this, is that we have a dam good starting XI (when fit.....)
posted on 3/3/14
Spot on SBD, although for our best 11 I'd have Cohen LB and Vaughan alongside Lansbury.
posted on 3/3/14
As far as i can see only Ramdini has said made those comments, one person does not constitute "Derby fans" ffs.
posted on 3/3/14
Hmm that was a hard one Caniggia and took me a bit of time to think about it, but just picked the team above as I jsut slightly prefer Cohen in midfield.
Monkey has hit the nail on the head though with his summing up.
For those saying this is Billy obviously have no clue about Football. We went on a 14 match unbeaten run even when we had the last of the heart of the team Reid involved. There is no coincidence to going from disappointed not to have beaten Leicester with Reid, to looking out of the fight when we had Greening instead of Reid!
If we had the team above and were struggling then of course questions could be raised. But there is absolutely no way you can blame Billy with this with the injuries we have and the unbeaten run we had when Reid was in the team!
With the supposed return of 3 of our best XI back in the next 10 days then we will (as long as they stay fit) make the playoffs!
posted on 3/3/14
Regarding the OP I'm very surprised at how under-whelming Cox appears to have been for Forest. Seemed a terrific signing at the time but he seems to be going backwards with age.
posted on 3/3/14
It comes down to the age old fraction we have in the Forest fans of the majority who think Billy is the best man for the job (whether they think he is great or just support the view that he is the best man) and those who will never like him no matter what he does and will keep coming back whenever we have a stutter. (i.e they believe and agree with the sheep's view of him, who 9 times out of 10 don't even go to the matches!)
posted on 3/3/14
Regarding the OP I'm very surprised at how under-whelming Cox appears to have been for Forest. Seemed a terrific signing at the time but he seems to be going backwards with age.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
He has actually been more prolific (if you can use that words) this year. He just needs the delivery and our creative players back. He is a goal poacher rather then creator!
With Reid, Lansbury and Vaughan back then he will come good again.
posted on 3/3/14
I think most of us thought he was a likely 20 goal a season man when you signed him SBD, I know Derby were in for him too and was secretly a bit miffed when he ended up with you. I think we were all basing our view on his record at Swindon though, rather than any proven track record at this level. In saying that a lot depends on the number of chances a team creates for their strikers, who would have predicted Martin would score so many this season for us?
posted on 3/3/14
True, Marco. For me Coz never really looks happy unless he has another striker alongside him to shoulder some of the responsibility. He played his best spell at Forest last season with Sharp alongside him.
Martin has been the surprise package at Derby. I recall last summer it was Russell you were all backing to be the one!
posted on 3/3/14
Yes and many were questioning the logic of signing Martin at all! How quickly reputations can rise and fall.
posted on 4/3/14
The beauty of sport. A bit of hard work and luck and you sometimes get your reward.
Who did he play for before Norwich?
posted on 4/3/14
Will;
He came through at Norwich and scored plenty in their league one promotion season before becoming a sub/reserve as they went up to the Prem. Various loans then followed without ever settling anywhere - I think he was on loan at Swindon and scored something like 1 in 15 or 20 games just before we then signed him on loan - so the 'stats' didn't suggest he would be a great signing.
When we had him on loan you could see he had a decent touch but looked unfit - probably a combination of being shunted from club-to-club and losing motivation? We then signed him on a free and people were unenthused to say the least, but he's been an absolute revelation for us - one of the keys to our 'success' has been his ability to play on his own up front and keep hold of it to launch our pacy attacks.
Just shows you never can tell - sometimes something as simple as being settled off the field and feeling wanted at a club is all somebody needs and they look twice the player.
I think we as football fans often forget players are human beings with human problems/feelings/etc too and not robots!
posted on 4/3/14
Quite right. Yes they get paid well over the odds but money doesn't make you completely happy. Being settled in the team also helps rather than being constantly rotated but that's a story for another day...
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