So Mourinho was right then?
bet you were all over him back in the first half of the season, lots of g.o.o.n.i.e.s showing their fickle nature at the moment
Don't worry, Kallstrom will be like a new signing in a few weeks
Wenger is undoubtedly a fantastic manager, he has won trophies and gone undefeated a whole league campaign, although for all of that I think his best achievement as a manager could well be the last couple of seasons where I believe he has over-achieved with the squad available.
He has managed to keep the club consistently in the top 4, that is an impressive achievement (even with the entrenchment CL football offers). However his biggest problem has been that he has apparently been happy with that, and hasn't strived for silverware as he may have done. Winning even a league cup in the last few years would I think have done his reputation more good, and perhaps encouraged some of the big name players to stay on. The current side with Fabregas and RvP would look a whole lot better... and probably be on a lot more points.
If you think about it, we've spent around £63m on Wenger's wages since we last won a trophy.
I mean, that is just staggering. He's paid around the same amount as other coaches who are actually winning trophies.
If we didnt have wenger we wouldnt have finished top 4 between 2008 and 2011 where we had terrible team and right mow we'd be about the same level as Southampton
I believe he has over-achieved with the squad available.
------------
Strengthening the squad is Wenger's job so I don't get how he gets credit for neglecting it then achieving the bare minimum for a club of our stature?
when you be that bothered if you were on 7million a year with a board who want to give you a new contract no matter whether you win trophy's or not, arsenal is now run by men who look at it than nothing else but a business to make money, like has been said again and again, as long as we make top 4 and have a half decent champions league run, the board will sit happily earning there millions whilst us mugs pay more and more every year to see the same old thing.
If we didnt have wenger we wouldnt have finished top 4 between 2008 and 2011 where we had terrible team and right mow we'd be about the same level as Southampton
----
Well you can't argue with hypothetical situations where you state something you can't possibly know as truth.
I mean, that is just staggering. He's paid around the same amount as other coaches who are actually winning trophies.
----------------------------------
He is doing two jobs and has been worth every penny till we renewed our sponsorships.
Jenius - what would those two jobs be?
what would those two jobs be?
-----------------------
Director of football and Head Coach.
Even Fergie had the director of football role stripped from him more than a decade ago when it was exposed that Fergie was using his son as an agent for players.
Jenius - he rarely needs to complete those two jobs simultaneously. And that multi-tasking certainly wouldn't account for the lack of tactical acumen he displays, nor would it account for the lack of organisation our team shows in defence or attack.
So now Wenger has another job which according to you somehow conveniently excuses him from poor job hes doing as the manager of Arsenal football club which he is widely known for.
Actually KPPR the problem last summer and in Jan, in my opinion is directly because he has too much on his plate.
As I have said before the fact he does two jobs creates huge problems for him. On one hand he has to decide whether certain players get the wages they want and on the other he has to keep them happy in the dressing room and still giving 100% on the pitch. There is a direct conflict of interest.
I will give you an example. Giroud has broken club disciplinary rules and in fact is hurting the brand image of Arsenal. In the past I am sure David Dein would be fielding calls from angry sponsors demanding that something be done because they don't want their products associated with negative headlines on the back pages. Now how does Wenger decide on the punishment and still keep Giroud playing for him?
There is a huge problem structurally. And something that Edelman commented on years ago after Dein was fired. Now up till recently Wenger was forced to make a profit in the transfer market. That meant someone doing both jobs was attractive despite the obvious problems. In fact I believe that was the prime reason why we haven't won a trophy. However the financial problems are now over. It is very important for Arsenal to separate the two roles so that we can be more aggressive in the transfer market and properly build a league winning squad.
I'm trying to figure out if Jenius99 is serious.
Do you really think Wenger sits down and works out wages and payment plans for players?
Do you really think Wenger sits down and works out wages and payment plans for players?
----------------------
He does but not exactly. He OKs the offer. In fact thats why we have contract problems. For example we have only recently started negotiations with players with 2 years left (an industry standard). Thats why we have lost RVP, Sagna (this year), Nasri in the past and almost lost Theo a season ago.
Wenger also dithers on signing players as he is directly responsible for the setting the value of players. Thats why we didn't sign Higuain.
In the past, Wenger, like most managers just chose the players he wanted and David Dein did the deals and also worried about their ROI and whther the club could afford it or not. It wasn't up to Wenger in those days under Dein.
I will give you an example. Giroud has broken club disciplinary rules and in fact is hurting the brand image of Arsenal. In the past I am sure David Dein would be fielding calls from angry sponsors demanding that something be done because they don't want their products associated with negative headlines on the back pages. Now how does Wenger decide on the punishment and still keep Giroud playing for him?
===========
Surely that would fall within Gazidis' remit? I seriously doubt that Wenger himself is fielding calls from sponsors.
The other part of the question is - if Wenger has too much on his plate, how much of that is being thrust upon him, and/or how much is he thrusting upon himself? Ok, so the wording of the question could be a little less crude, but you get the point.
I recall an interview with Bob Wilson a few years ago, who said he retired before he planned to - he and Wenger disagreed over the signing of Lehmann, with Wilson insisting that Wenger give Taylor a go as number one. Wilson said he became tired of being employed as a goalkeeping coach, only for Wenger to ignore him (they'd clashed over the signings of Warmuz and Shaaban in the past).
He's not the only one to suggest that Wenger is somewhat... autocratic, shall we say, in the way he does things.
Surely that would fall within Gazidis' remit? I seriously doubt that Wenger himself is fielding calls from sponsors.
--------------------------
I expect Gazidis would be answering the phone. But thats not the point is it? Wenger has the power when surly breaking club rules should be decided by the board as it is not a playing matter!
Have you seen anyone refuse power KPPR? The fact I believe Wenger has to decide what he wants to do if we want to move forward and thats a conversation Kroenke should be having with him because it is patently obvious he can't do both. I mean who could he talk to (and I mean really talk to - ie someone with the football knowledge he respects like he did Dein?) when we were guffing about deciding what to to do with the striker situation in the summer and Jan?
I disagree with Wilson however. Player side of the club should always be in the remit of the head coach. Just the financial side should not be and I don't think it is at any club other than Arsenal.
Do you really think Wenger sits down and works out wages and payment plans for players?
-------
I believe so,
An interviewer said Wenger had to leave from the interview to talk to someone about the catering why the hell is he involved with catering for crying out loud!
Godleebarnes - it means in terms of tactics/motivation he is able to get more out of a group of players than other would - so his management deserves praise.
Equally of course, the fact he is in charge of signings means his work in the player market is not good enough and deserves criticism.
I imagine the biggest frustration for Arsenal fans is that they are never that far away from trophies... but just always fall a little bit short. It is agonising because with just a few tweaks Arsenal really could have won so much.
That is how I feel, just one or two players short all the time.
Godleebarnes - it means in terms of tactics/motivation he is able to get more out of a group of players than other would - so his management deserves praise.
-----
I'm pretty sure its kind of accepted now even among Wenger fans that he isn't very tactically astute and you only have to look at the Stoke game to see the motivation comment doesn't really hold up.
I am not a Wenger fan particularly, but I don't think we should write off his tactical understanding. He has guided a team undefeated through a league season and as I said before has over-achieved with the group of players he has had over the last 2 seasons. Therefore he must be doing something right with regards tactics and motivation.
I would agree he is too dogmatic in his approach, and seems reluctant to go to a plan b (if there is one). And that too is a frustration for fans as in past seasons had he "shut up shop" in games he would have been a lot more successful.
How has he overachieved in the last 2 seasons? Who should be finishing above us that didn't with their squads? Mertesacker £8m, Koscielny £10m, Vermaelen £10m, Monreal £8m, Sagna £7m, Arteta £10m, Rosicky £7m, Giroud £12m, Ox £15m, Podoloski £10m, Cazorla £15m, Ozil £42.5m. Only City and Chelsea have better squads than us and Man United had Fergie so I don't get where you get this idea of over achievement from?
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Wenger: still our problem
Page 1 of 2
posted on 3/3/14
So Mourinho was right then?
posted on 3/3/14
bet you were all over him back in the first half of the season, lots of g.o.o.n.i.e.s showing their fickle nature at the moment
posted on 3/3/14
Don't worry, Kallstrom will be like a new signing in a few weeks
posted on 3/3/14
Wenger is undoubtedly a fantastic manager, he has won trophies and gone undefeated a whole league campaign, although for all of that I think his best achievement as a manager could well be the last couple of seasons where I believe he has over-achieved with the squad available.
He has managed to keep the club consistently in the top 4, that is an impressive achievement (even with the entrenchment CL football offers). However his biggest problem has been that he has apparently been happy with that, and hasn't strived for silverware as he may have done. Winning even a league cup in the last few years would I think have done his reputation more good, and perhaps encouraged some of the big name players to stay on. The current side with Fabregas and RvP would look a whole lot better... and probably be on a lot more points.
posted on 3/3/14
If you think about it, we've spent around £63m on Wenger's wages since we last won a trophy.
I mean, that is just staggering. He's paid around the same amount as other coaches who are actually winning trophies.
posted on 3/3/14
If we didnt have wenger we wouldnt have finished top 4 between 2008 and 2011 where we had terrible team and right mow we'd be about the same level as Southampton
posted on 3/3/14
I believe he has over-achieved with the squad available.
------------
Strengthening the squad is Wenger's job so I don't get how he gets credit for neglecting it then achieving the bare minimum for a club of our stature?
posted on 3/3/14
when you be that bothered if you were on 7million a year with a board who want to give you a new contract no matter whether you win trophy's or not, arsenal is now run by men who look at it than nothing else but a business to make money, like has been said again and again, as long as we make top 4 and have a half decent champions league run, the board will sit happily earning there millions whilst us mugs pay more and more every year to see the same old thing.
posted on 3/3/14
If we didnt have wenger we wouldnt have finished top 4 between 2008 and 2011 where we had terrible team and right mow we'd be about the same level as Southampton
----
Well you can't argue with hypothetical situations where you state something you can't possibly know as truth.
posted on 3/3/14
I mean, that is just staggering. He's paid around the same amount as other coaches who are actually winning trophies.
----------------------------------
He is doing two jobs and has been worth every penny till we renewed our sponsorships.
posted on 3/3/14
Jenius - what would those two jobs be?
posted on 3/3/14
what would those two jobs be?
-----------------------
Director of football and Head Coach.
Even Fergie had the director of football role stripped from him more than a decade ago when it was exposed that Fergie was using his son as an agent for players.
posted on 3/3/14
Jenius - he rarely needs to complete those two jobs simultaneously. And that multi-tasking certainly wouldn't account for the lack of tactical acumen he displays, nor would it account for the lack of organisation our team shows in defence or attack.
posted on 3/3/14
So now Wenger has another job which according to you somehow conveniently excuses him from poor job hes doing as the manager of Arsenal football club which he is widely known for.
posted on 3/3/14
Actually KPPR the problem last summer and in Jan, in my opinion is directly because he has too much on his plate.
As I have said before the fact he does two jobs creates huge problems for him. On one hand he has to decide whether certain players get the wages they want and on the other he has to keep them happy in the dressing room and still giving 100% on the pitch. There is a direct conflict of interest.
I will give you an example. Giroud has broken club disciplinary rules and in fact is hurting the brand image of Arsenal. In the past I am sure David Dein would be fielding calls from angry sponsors demanding that something be done because they don't want their products associated with negative headlines on the back pages. Now how does Wenger decide on the punishment and still keep Giroud playing for him?
There is a huge problem structurally. And something that Edelman commented on years ago after Dein was fired. Now up till recently Wenger was forced to make a profit in the transfer market. That meant someone doing both jobs was attractive despite the obvious problems. In fact I believe that was the prime reason why we haven't won a trophy. However the financial problems are now over. It is very important for Arsenal to separate the two roles so that we can be more aggressive in the transfer market and properly build a league winning squad.
posted on 3/3/14
I'm trying to figure out if Jenius99 is serious.
Do you really think Wenger sits down and works out wages and payment plans for players?
posted on 3/3/14
Do you really think Wenger sits down and works out wages and payment plans for players?
----------------------
He does but not exactly. He OKs the offer. In fact thats why we have contract problems. For example we have only recently started negotiations with players with 2 years left (an industry standard). Thats why we have lost RVP, Sagna (this year), Nasri in the past and almost lost Theo a season ago.
Wenger also dithers on signing players as he is directly responsible for the setting the value of players. Thats why we didn't sign Higuain.
In the past, Wenger, like most managers just chose the players he wanted and David Dein did the deals and also worried about their ROI and whther the club could afford it or not. It wasn't up to Wenger in those days under Dein.
posted on 3/3/14
I will give you an example. Giroud has broken club disciplinary rules and in fact is hurting the brand image of Arsenal. In the past I am sure David Dein would be fielding calls from angry sponsors demanding that something be done because they don't want their products associated with negative headlines on the back pages. Now how does Wenger decide on the punishment and still keep Giroud playing for him?
===========
Surely that would fall within Gazidis' remit? I seriously doubt that Wenger himself is fielding calls from sponsors.
The other part of the question is - if Wenger has too much on his plate, how much of that is being thrust upon him, and/or how much is he thrusting upon himself? Ok, so the wording of the question could be a little less crude, but you get the point.
I recall an interview with Bob Wilson a few years ago, who said he retired before he planned to - he and Wenger disagreed over the signing of Lehmann, with Wilson insisting that Wenger give Taylor a go as number one. Wilson said he became tired of being employed as a goalkeeping coach, only for Wenger to ignore him (they'd clashed over the signings of Warmuz and Shaaban in the past).
He's not the only one to suggest that Wenger is somewhat... autocratic, shall we say, in the way he does things.
posted on 3/3/14
Surely that would fall within Gazidis' remit? I seriously doubt that Wenger himself is fielding calls from sponsors.
--------------------------
I expect Gazidis would be answering the phone. But thats not the point is it? Wenger has the power when surly breaking club rules should be decided by the board as it is not a playing matter!
Have you seen anyone refuse power KPPR? The fact I believe Wenger has to decide what he wants to do if we want to move forward and thats a conversation Kroenke should be having with him because it is patently obvious he can't do both. I mean who could he talk to (and I mean really talk to - ie someone with the football knowledge he respects like he did Dein?) when we were guffing about deciding what to to do with the striker situation in the summer and Jan?
I disagree with Wilson however. Player side of the club should always be in the remit of the head coach. Just the financial side should not be and I don't think it is at any club other than Arsenal.
posted on 3/3/14
Do you really think Wenger sits down and works out wages and payment plans for players?
-------
I believe so,
An interviewer said Wenger had to leave from the interview to talk to someone about the catering why the hell is he involved with catering for crying out loud!
posted on 4/3/14
Godleebarnes - it means in terms of tactics/motivation he is able to get more out of a group of players than other would - so his management deserves praise.
Equally of course, the fact he is in charge of signings means his work in the player market is not good enough and deserves criticism.
I imagine the biggest frustration for Arsenal fans is that they are never that far away from trophies... but just always fall a little bit short. It is agonising because with just a few tweaks Arsenal really could have won so much.
posted on 4/3/14
That is how I feel, just one or two players short all the time.
posted on 4/3/14
Godleebarnes - it means in terms of tactics/motivation he is able to get more out of a group of players than other would - so his management deserves praise.
-----
I'm pretty sure its kind of accepted now even among Wenger fans that he isn't very tactically astute and you only have to look at the Stoke game to see the motivation comment doesn't really hold up.
posted on 4/3/14
I am not a Wenger fan particularly, but I don't think we should write off his tactical understanding. He has guided a team undefeated through a league season and as I said before has over-achieved with the group of players he has had over the last 2 seasons. Therefore he must be doing something right with regards tactics and motivation.
I would agree he is too dogmatic in his approach, and seems reluctant to go to a plan b (if there is one). And that too is a frustration for fans as in past seasons had he "shut up shop" in games he would have been a lot more successful.
posted on 4/3/14
How has he overachieved in the last 2 seasons? Who should be finishing above us that didn't with their squads? Mertesacker £8m, Koscielny £10m, Vermaelen £10m, Monreal £8m, Sagna £7m, Arteta £10m, Rosicky £7m, Giroud £12m, Ox £15m, Podoloski £10m, Cazorla £15m, Ozil £42.5m. Only City and Chelsea have better squads than us and Man United had Fergie so I don't get where you get this idea of over achievement from?
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