Brilliant article on the athletic about our CB situation.
***
Fenway Sports Group president Mike Gordon doesn’t usually do knee-jerk reactions. Liverpool’s owners pride themselves on a commitment to long-term planning. They aren’t influenced by all the noise outside the club. They take the emotion out of the decision-making process.
Certainly, few tears will have been shed in Boston at the sight of Liverpool bowing out of the FA Cup on Sunday. That competition was always a distant third on Jurgen Klopp’s list of priorities and another early exit at least frees up some space in a ridiculously crowded calendar.
However, what should have struck a chord with those who hold the Anfield pursestrings was the manner of the fourth-round loss to Manchester United and the warning signs it provides for the months to come.
On the day that Liverpool’s barren run in front of goal was ended by Roberto Firmino twice turning provider for Mohamed Salah, they were undone at Old Trafford by the glaring vulnerability at the heart of their defence.
Young Rhys Williams deserves sympathy rather than the grim torrent of criticism he was subjected to online. The academy graduate is an immensely talented teenager who is still learning his trade. He’s a model professional who has done everything possible to grasp opportunities that he didn’t expect to come his way this season. Coaches remain convinced that he’s got a big future ahead of him.
However, there’s a good reason why none of Liverpool’s rivals have a 19-year-old playing centre-back. It’s a position where experience is crucial. Mistakes tend to get punished, like the one that enabled Marcus Rashford to fire United 2-1 ahead.
Williams, who has clocked up a dozen appearances for Liverpool already this season, is being asked to perform to a level which isn’t either realistic or fair for someone who was on loan at sixth-tier Kidderminster Harriers a year ago.
Alongside him against United, he had a midfielder who deserves immense credit for the performances he has consistently delivered since being asked by Klopp to fulfil a new role to help the team. But Fabinho isn’t a centre-back and here was another reminder of that fact.
Liverpool were furious over the award of the free kick which enabled substitute Bruno Fernandes to slam home the winner 12 minutes from time. However, although contact was minimal, the reality is that Fabinho was rash. His challenge on Edinson Cavani was the kind you commit to in the centre circle, not on the edge of your own penalty area.
It was a contest decided by fine margins. If Joel Matip had started instead of Williams, there’s a high probability that Klopp would have got the morale-boosting triumph he coveted after recent setbacks. But Matip was rested with one eye on Thursday’s crunch Premier League trip to Tottenham Hotspur. Having only just returned to action against Burnley less than 72 hours earlier, Liverpool felt it would have been too demanding for the former Cameroon international to play three times in the space of a week.
And that’s part of the problem right there. It’s not just that Klopp is without his first-choice centre-back partnership following the serious injuries suffered by Virgil van Dijk and Joe Gomez. It’s that the club’s only other specialist senior centre-back has been plagued by an array of fitness issues and needs to be handled so carefully.
Liverpool have paid a heavy price for failing to replace Dejan Lovren when they sold him to Zenit St Petersburg in July. The irony is that the Croatian left in pursuit of regular game-time. If he had stayed, he would have played 40-plus matches for the champions this season.
With captain Jordan Henderson also injured, Klopp’s only other defensive option on Sunday was Nathaniel Phillips, who was on the brink of signing for Swansea City of the Championship just four months ago. It’s a crazy situation for a club which has serious aspirations to retain the Premier League title and win the Champions League again this season.
Maybe FSG were lured into a false sense of security by the results that immediately followed the loss of Van Dijk, when Klopp’s men rattled off five successive victories.
Maybe they convinced themselves that Klopp could even cope without Gomez on top of that after Liverpool won their Champions League group and went five points clear in the Premier League by thrashing Crystal Palace last month.
The plan to wait until the summer to strengthen the back line was understandable at that time. It was clear that Liverpool had a transfer target in mind who simply wasn’t going to be available in the winter window.
Money has also been a major factor given the impact of the pandemic on revenues. Klopp made that crystal clear when he was recently quizzed about the lack of January business.
“Of course someone else is making the decisions; it was always like this,” he said. “The situation we discuss on a daily basis. ‘Could we improve something or not?’ I cannot spend the money. I don’t make these decisions, I never did. Is that news?”
Klopp’s point was that no transfer deal has ever been sanctioned during his reign without Gordon agreeing that it made financial sense.
“Short-term fixes aren’t what this club is about anymore,” a senior Anfield source told The Athletic earlier this month. “We want to sign a centre-back for three to four years, not four or five months. And they are not available without being financially irresponsible in this window.”
Around the same time, Klopp described the prospect of a stop-gap signing as “making no sense” — but times change.
Liverpool have won just one of their past seven matches in all competitions and even that solitary victory was against Aston Villa’s youth team.
Playing midfielders out of position has damaged the balance of the team. And for the first time, against United, the absence of specialist centre-backs actually cost them the game as that weakness at the back was painfully exposed.
In the absence of the funds required to sign a genuinely elite game-changer, a quick fix is exactly what Liverpool need.
He doesn’t need to be a world-beater. He doesn’t need to be anything close to Van Dijk. He just needs to be better than what Klopp is able to pick from currently and, with respect, that shouldn’t be too difficult to find.
There’s a potentially season-defining fortnight in February when Liverpool face Manchester City, Leicester City, RB Leipzig and Everton. How can you possibly approach that run without a new face on board? If Matip is still standing by then he certainly won’t play in all four of those games.
The window is open for another week and Gordon and sporting director Michael Edwards need to reassess. It would be irresponsible if Liverpool head into the rest of the season without bolstering their backline.
Forget whether you can afford to do something, Liverpool can’t afford not to dip into the market.
This season depends on it. Sunday’s defeat at Old Trafford rammed that home.
Also apparently we have checked in with Sokratis but he's off to Olympiakos.
comment by #nerfthedmr (U3979)
posted 17 minutes ago
Also apparently we have checked in with Sokratis but he's off to Olympiakos.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We offered him a 6 month deal but he wanted 2 years so you can understand why he's gone back home.
Does Williams have real immense talent for a teenager? From what I have seen of him, he's looked ok but has also looked well out of his depth. Looks like somebody who should play at Football League level. I understand it's harsh to criticise him as he was never ready for this anyway, but he has a lot more to prove yet.
He may benefit from some games in the EFL somewhere as of next season.
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 4 minutes ago
Does Williams have real immense talent for a teenager? From what I have seen of him, he's looked ok but has also looked well out of his depth. Looks like somebody who should play at Football League level. I understand it's harsh to criticise him as he was never ready for this anyway, but he has a lot more to prove yet.
He may benefit from some games in the EFL somewhere as of next season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He lacks pace which is obvious and he's too inexperienced in what he needs to do positionally especially up against some quick like Gashford.
He has literally come out of no where. Because Billy K got injured he was able to step in and initially looked decent but going from none league to United is too big of a jump.
comment by (K̇ash) I'm the Mané - PL Champione (U1108)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by #nerfthedmr (U3979)
posted 17 minutes ago
Also apparently we have checked in with Sokratis but he's off to Olympiakos.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We offered him a 6 month deal but he wanted 2 years so you can understand why he's gone back home.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest I can't imagine that Olympiakos wouldn't have had that deal on the table in 6 months so a quick 6 month stint here and then back home would probably have made more sense both financially for him and also in terms of the chance of collecting a medal.
Hey ho.
comment by (K̇ash) I'm the Mané - PL Champione (U1108)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 4 minutes ago
Does Williams have real immense talent for a teenager? From what I have seen of him, he's looked ok but has also looked well out of his depth. Looks like somebody who should play at Football League level. I understand it's harsh to criticise him as he was never ready for this anyway, but he has a lot more to prove yet.
He may benefit from some games in the EFL somewhere as of next season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He lacks pace which is obvious and he's too inexperienced in what he needs to do positionally especially up against some quick like Gashford.
He has literally come out of no where. Because Billy K got injured he was able to step in and initially looked decent but going from none league to United is too big of a jump.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Gomez and Williams aren't hugely different players in their positioning and awareness, Gomez has made errors like Williams did yesterday. Same with any center back really.
The difference is Gomez is much much much better at recovering.
I think Williams has the talent and will improve with game time but we need results now. This isn't a learning on the job office workplace but elite sports and he needs to perform.
He isn't very slow but I think he lacks strength and need to bulk up in the gym. Doing squats for bigger legs could help him. I remember Virgil at Groningen in 2011 and he was physically ready but still made defensive mistakes.
A loan deal to a championship club will do him good next season to gain more experience.
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted about 2 hours ago
Does Williams have real immense talent for a teenager? From what I have seen of him, he's looked ok but has also looked well out of his depth. Looks like somebody who should play at Football League level. I understand it's harsh to criticise him as he was never ready for this anyway, but he has a lot more to prove yet.
He may benefit from some games in the EFL somewhere as of next season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If it wasn’t for our extreme circumstances this season, we probably wouldn’t have known anything about Williams, except maybe a EL appearance. The point being he wouldn’t have been anywhere near the first team and wouldn’t have been exposed to what he has so early in his career. He does have a lot of potential, and normally young CB’s get nurtured and wouldn’t be anywhere near the first team, especially at a top club, until comfortably into their 20’s. The mistakes he is making are not his fault, and shouldn’t detract from the potential he clearly has.
According Charlie Austin, United chose to sign Lindelof when it was a choice between him and VVD.
Who would you say is the best sportsman of this century so far?
Tom Brady, Lewis Hamilton, LeBron James, Lionel Messi, Ronaldo, Roger Federer, Richie McCaw (no idea about rugby).
Who gets your pick?
Has to be Federer, the guy’s will to win is unbelievable. Mad how he’s still going too.
comment by #nerfthedmr (U3979)
posted 14 minutes ago
Who would you say is the best sportsman of this century so far?
Tom Brady, Lewis Hamilton, LeBron James, Lionel Messi, Ronaldo, Roger Federer, Richie McCaw (no idea about rugby).
Who gets your pick?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Going to throw in a curve ball with Anderson Silva.
comment by #nerfthedmr (U3979)
posted 14 minutes ago
Who would you say is the best sportsman of this century so far?
Tom Brady, Lewis Hamilton, LeBron James, Lionel Messi, Ronaldo, Roger Federer, Richie McCaw (no idea about rugby).
Who gets your pick?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Brady - haven’t seen him play in years. Good at throwing
Lewis Hamilton - never seen him race
LeBron James - never seen him play
Lionel Messi - no Jordan Henderson
Ronaldo - does have very hairless legs, I’ll give him that
Roger Federer - never seen him play
Richie McCaw - never heard of him
Phelps? Bolt? Mayweather?
Is Sergei Bubka still dominating he pole vault?
The Jamaican bobsleigh team.
comment by *Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 2 hours, 10 minutes ago
The Jamaican bobsleigh team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
20th century, absolutely.
That was a whole century ago
Damn how long have I been asleep.
We're top 5 in the Deloitte Money League
City have taken another beating from us lol
comment by *Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 41 minutes ago
We're top 5 in the Deloitte Money League
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And can't afford a centre back
Funny how we don't do panic buys but tried to offer Sokratis a short term deal
Was that actually confirmed or was it just a rumour because of the situation of him being a free agent and Liverpool needing a CB?
Sign in if you want to comment
LFC Tranny Thread
Page 5070 of 7828
5071 | 5072 | 5073 | 5074 | 5075
posted on 25/1/21
Brilliant article on the athletic about our CB situation.
***
Fenway Sports Group president Mike Gordon doesn’t usually do knee-jerk reactions. Liverpool’s owners pride themselves on a commitment to long-term planning. They aren’t influenced by all the noise outside the club. They take the emotion out of the decision-making process.
Certainly, few tears will have been shed in Boston at the sight of Liverpool bowing out of the FA Cup on Sunday. That competition was always a distant third on Jurgen Klopp’s list of priorities and another early exit at least frees up some space in a ridiculously crowded calendar.
However, what should have struck a chord with those who hold the Anfield pursestrings was the manner of the fourth-round loss to Manchester United and the warning signs it provides for the months to come.
On the day that Liverpool’s barren run in front of goal was ended by Roberto Firmino twice turning provider for Mohamed Salah, they were undone at Old Trafford by the glaring vulnerability at the heart of their defence.
Young Rhys Williams deserves sympathy rather than the grim torrent of criticism he was subjected to online. The academy graduate is an immensely talented teenager who is still learning his trade. He’s a model professional who has done everything possible to grasp opportunities that he didn’t expect to come his way this season. Coaches remain convinced that he’s got a big future ahead of him.
However, there’s a good reason why none of Liverpool’s rivals have a 19-year-old playing centre-back. It’s a position where experience is crucial. Mistakes tend to get punished, like the one that enabled Marcus Rashford to fire United 2-1 ahead.
Williams, who has clocked up a dozen appearances for Liverpool already this season, is being asked to perform to a level which isn’t either realistic or fair for someone who was on loan at sixth-tier Kidderminster Harriers a year ago.
Alongside him against United, he had a midfielder who deserves immense credit for the performances he has consistently delivered since being asked by Klopp to fulfil a new role to help the team. But Fabinho isn’t a centre-back and here was another reminder of that fact.
Liverpool were furious over the award of the free kick which enabled substitute Bruno Fernandes to slam home the winner 12 minutes from time. However, although contact was minimal, the reality is that Fabinho was rash. His challenge on Edinson Cavani was the kind you commit to in the centre circle, not on the edge of your own penalty area.
It was a contest decided by fine margins. If Joel Matip had started instead of Williams, there’s a high probability that Klopp would have got the morale-boosting triumph he coveted after recent setbacks. But Matip was rested with one eye on Thursday’s crunch Premier League trip to Tottenham Hotspur. Having only just returned to action against Burnley less than 72 hours earlier, Liverpool felt it would have been too demanding for the former Cameroon international to play three times in the space of a week.
And that’s part of the problem right there. It’s not just that Klopp is without his first-choice centre-back partnership following the serious injuries suffered by Virgil van Dijk and Joe Gomez. It’s that the club’s only other specialist senior centre-back has been plagued by an array of fitness issues and needs to be handled so carefully.
Liverpool have paid a heavy price for failing to replace Dejan Lovren when they sold him to Zenit St Petersburg in July. The irony is that the Croatian left in pursuit of regular game-time. If he had stayed, he would have played 40-plus matches for the champions this season.
With captain Jordan Henderson also injured, Klopp’s only other defensive option on Sunday was Nathaniel Phillips, who was on the brink of signing for Swansea City of the Championship just four months ago. It’s a crazy situation for a club which has serious aspirations to retain the Premier League title and win the Champions League again this season.
Maybe FSG were lured into a false sense of security by the results that immediately followed the loss of Van Dijk, when Klopp’s men rattled off five successive victories.
Maybe they convinced themselves that Klopp could even cope without Gomez on top of that after Liverpool won their Champions League group and went five points clear in the Premier League by thrashing Crystal Palace last month.
The plan to wait until the summer to strengthen the back line was understandable at that time. It was clear that Liverpool had a transfer target in mind who simply wasn’t going to be available in the winter window.
Money has also been a major factor given the impact of the pandemic on revenues. Klopp made that crystal clear when he was recently quizzed about the lack of January business.
“Of course someone else is making the decisions; it was always like this,” he said. “The situation we discuss on a daily basis. ‘Could we improve something or not?’ I cannot spend the money. I don’t make these decisions, I never did. Is that news?”
Klopp’s point was that no transfer deal has ever been sanctioned during his reign without Gordon agreeing that it made financial sense.
“Short-term fixes aren’t what this club is about anymore,” a senior Anfield source told The Athletic earlier this month. “We want to sign a centre-back for three to four years, not four or five months. And they are not available without being financially irresponsible in this window.”
Around the same time, Klopp described the prospect of a stop-gap signing as “making no sense” — but times change.
Liverpool have won just one of their past seven matches in all competitions and even that solitary victory was against Aston Villa’s youth team.
Playing midfielders out of position has damaged the balance of the team. And for the first time, against United, the absence of specialist centre-backs actually cost them the game as that weakness at the back was painfully exposed.
In the absence of the funds required to sign a genuinely elite game-changer, a quick fix is exactly what Liverpool need.
He doesn’t need to be a world-beater. He doesn’t need to be anything close to Van Dijk. He just needs to be better than what Klopp is able to pick from currently and, with respect, that shouldn’t be too difficult to find.
There’s a potentially season-defining fortnight in February when Liverpool face Manchester City, Leicester City, RB Leipzig and Everton. How can you possibly approach that run without a new face on board? If Matip is still standing by then he certainly won’t play in all four of those games.
The window is open for another week and Gordon and sporting director Michael Edwards need to reassess. It would be irresponsible if Liverpool head into the rest of the season without bolstering their backline.
Forget whether you can afford to do something, Liverpool can’t afford not to dip into the market.
This season depends on it. Sunday’s defeat at Old Trafford rammed that home.
posted on 25/1/21
Also apparently we have checked in with Sokratis but he's off to Olympiakos.
posted on 25/1/21
comment by #nerfthedmr (U3979)
posted 17 minutes ago
Also apparently we have checked in with Sokratis but he's off to Olympiakos.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We offered him a 6 month deal but he wanted 2 years so you can understand why he's gone back home.
posted on 25/1/21
Does Williams have real immense talent for a teenager? From what I have seen of him, he's looked ok but has also looked well out of his depth. Looks like somebody who should play at Football League level. I understand it's harsh to criticise him as he was never ready for this anyway, but he has a lot more to prove yet.
He may benefit from some games in the EFL somewhere as of next season.
posted on 25/1/21
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 4 minutes ago
Does Williams have real immense talent for a teenager? From what I have seen of him, he's looked ok but has also looked well out of his depth. Looks like somebody who should play at Football League level. I understand it's harsh to criticise him as he was never ready for this anyway, but he has a lot more to prove yet.
He may benefit from some games in the EFL somewhere as of next season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He lacks pace which is obvious and he's too inexperienced in what he needs to do positionally especially up against some quick like Gashford.
He has literally come out of no where. Because Billy K got injured he was able to step in and initially looked decent but going from none league to United is too big of a jump.
posted on 25/1/21
comment by (K̇ash) I'm the Mané - PL Champione (U1108)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by #nerfthedmr (U3979)
posted 17 minutes ago
Also apparently we have checked in with Sokratis but he's off to Olympiakos.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We offered him a 6 month deal but he wanted 2 years so you can understand why he's gone back home.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest I can't imagine that Olympiakos wouldn't have had that deal on the table in 6 months so a quick 6 month stint here and then back home would probably have made more sense both financially for him and also in terms of the chance of collecting a medal.
Hey ho.
posted on 25/1/21
comment by (K̇ash) I'm the Mané - PL Champione (U1108)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 4 minutes ago
Does Williams have real immense talent for a teenager? From what I have seen of him, he's looked ok but has also looked well out of his depth. Looks like somebody who should play at Football League level. I understand it's harsh to criticise him as he was never ready for this anyway, but he has a lot more to prove yet.
He may benefit from some games in the EFL somewhere as of next season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He lacks pace which is obvious and he's too inexperienced in what he needs to do positionally especially up against some quick like Gashford.
He has literally come out of no where. Because Billy K got injured he was able to step in and initially looked decent but going from none league to United is too big of a jump.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Gomez and Williams aren't hugely different players in their positioning and awareness, Gomez has made errors like Williams did yesterday. Same with any center back really.
The difference is Gomez is much much much better at recovering.
posted on 25/1/21
I think Williams has the talent and will improve with game time but we need results now. This isn't a learning on the job office workplace but elite sports and he needs to perform.
He isn't very slow but I think he lacks strength and need to bulk up in the gym. Doing squats for bigger legs could help him. I remember Virgil at Groningen in 2011 and he was physically ready but still made defensive mistakes.
A loan deal to a championship club will do him good next season to gain more experience.
posted on 25/1/21
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted about 2 hours ago
Does Williams have real immense talent for a teenager? From what I have seen of him, he's looked ok but has also looked well out of his depth. Looks like somebody who should play at Football League level. I understand it's harsh to criticise him as he was never ready for this anyway, but he has a lot more to prove yet.
He may benefit from some games in the EFL somewhere as of next season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If it wasn’t for our extreme circumstances this season, we probably wouldn’t have known anything about Williams, except maybe a EL appearance. The point being he wouldn’t have been anywhere near the first team and wouldn’t have been exposed to what he has so early in his career. He does have a lot of potential, and normally young CB’s get nurtured and wouldn’t be anywhere near the first team, especially at a top club, until comfortably into their 20’s. The mistakes he is making are not his fault, and shouldn’t detract from the potential he clearly has.
posted on 25/1/21
According Charlie Austin, United chose to sign Lindelof when it was a choice between him and VVD.
posted on 25/1/21
Who would you say is the best sportsman of this century so far?
Tom Brady, Lewis Hamilton, LeBron James, Lionel Messi, Ronaldo, Roger Federer, Richie McCaw (no idea about rugby).
Who gets your pick?
posted on 25/1/21
Has to be Federer, the guy’s will to win is unbelievable. Mad how he’s still going too.
posted on 25/1/21
comment by #nerfthedmr (U3979)
posted 14 minutes ago
Who would you say is the best sportsman of this century so far?
Tom Brady, Lewis Hamilton, LeBron James, Lionel Messi, Ronaldo, Roger Federer, Richie McCaw (no idea about rugby).
Who gets your pick?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Going to throw in a curve ball with Anderson Silva.
posted on 25/1/21
Rooney.
posted on 25/1/21
comment by #nerfthedmr (U3979)
posted 14 minutes ago
Who would you say is the best sportsman of this century so far?
Tom Brady, Lewis Hamilton, LeBron James, Lionel Messi, Ronaldo, Roger Federer, Richie McCaw (no idea about rugby).
Who gets your pick?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Brady - haven’t seen him play in years. Good at throwing
Lewis Hamilton - never seen him race
LeBron James - never seen him play
Lionel Messi - no Jordan Henderson
Ronaldo - does have very hairless legs, I’ll give him that
Roger Federer - never seen him play
Richie McCaw - never heard of him
Phelps? Bolt? Mayweather?
posted on 25/1/21
Is Sergei Bubka still dominating he pole vault?
posted on 25/1/21
The Jamaican bobsleigh team.
posted on 25/1/21
Caitlin Jenner
posted on 25/1/21
comment by *Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 2 hours, 10 minutes ago
The Jamaican bobsleigh team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
20th century, absolutely.
posted on 26/1/21
That was a whole century ago
Damn how long have I been asleep.
posted on 26/1/21
We're top 5 in the Deloitte Money League
posted on 26/1/21
City have taken another beating from us lol
posted on 26/1/21
comment by *Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 41 minutes ago
We're top 5 in the Deloitte Money League
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And can't afford a centre back
posted on 26/1/21
Funny how we don't do panic buys but tried to offer Sokratis a short term deal
posted on 26/1/21
Was that actually confirmed or was it just a rumour because of the situation of him being a free agent and Liverpool needing a CB?
Page 5070 of 7828
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