so you've given me 2 youtube clips? 2...for a goalkeeper in the league for how many years, try getting a few more, I will look later when im out of work

I think the real point is you'd have to be a mug to argue that Cech is not a significant improvement on anything you've had frankly since Lehmann the season you got to the CL final

Cech was beginning to make errors and I could post you several video clips of his mistakes
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You can do that with any keeper. However if you are advocating that somehow we can develop Ospina to be better than Cech? Thats missing the point. Its the sort of thinking that we used to have. Football is very much about the here and now and not about waiting for some nirvana that is magically going to win us the league. Wenger and the club used to sell us that concept to hide the what was happening at board level.

In the immediate Cech is going to increase our chances of wining the league compared to Ospina. Cech is no doubt going to increase the confidence of our defenders because of his experience at the top level. In fact we have always done better with experienced keepers like Seamen and Lehmann.

one of the articles he linked was 4 years ago...

Seaman

comment by Nickalopodis-Champions 14-15- (U9257)
posted 16 minutes ago
so you've given me 2 youtube clips? 2...for a goalkeeper in the league for how many years, try getting a few more, I will look later when im out of work
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There is 5 links there, and I have not included other blunders vs Norway (Pedersen goal), Wigan, Hull, City, Swansea. I accept that he is still a good keeper, but he is not the Gordon Banks some of you make him out to be, and is certainly on his way down.

Jenius - 'Cech adds calmness'.
Not sure about this. He doesn't come off his line at all well. We are rather weak at set pieces, and Cechs reluctance to deal with such situations will not help.
He also gets stuck in no mans land when balls are played over the top. Best example to watch is Falcao's hat trick in the Super Cup, flat footed Cech beaten three times while stuck between the edge of his six yard box and penalty spot.

He has definitely lost his bravery, that goal he conceded against Greece is just one example where he has lost concentration because of a fear of a collision.

It is a different job keeping goal for Chelsea, with their beasts like Terry and Ivanovic.

Think people are massively over estimating the effect Cech will have on us, while also demeaning the performance of Ospina for Arsenal.

As someone said elsewhere, people decided Ospina didn't 'look like a keeper' and thus have always had it in for him.

comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 20 minutes ago
Cech was beginning to make errors and I could post you several video clips of his mistakes
--------------------------------------

You can do that with any keeper. However if you are advocating that somehow we can develop Ospina to be better than Cech? Thats missing the point. Its the sort of thinking that we used to have. Football is very much about the here and now and not about waiting for some nirvana that is magically going to win us the league. Wenger and the club used to sell us that concept to hide the what was happening at board level.

In the immediate Cech is going to increase our chances of wining the league compared to Ospina. Cech is no doubt going to increase the confidence of our defenders because of his experience at the top level. In fact we have always done better with experienced keepers like Seamen and Lehmann.
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Ospina is not some 12-year old who will only mature in 15 years' time. He had a very good start with us by any standards, and statistically one of the best in the PL by any keeper, so your "here and now" argument is completely pointless..

Falcao should have scored I believe 6 or 7 goals that game but then again Di Matteo Chelsea are the worst ever side at defending. Even teams that concede 18 goals+ in group stage conceded far less chances then Di Matteo Chelsea side whose tactics are let the opposition have as many clear chances as they can and hope they miss.

It should also be noted that in 97/98 title winning season it was young and inexperienced Alex Manninger who came in and took us to the title, while in Seamans third title winning season he played less than half of the PL games.

I think you're underestimating the overall boost Cech will provide to the players as well as the fans, including a big psychological boost.

I do agree that Ospina is being undervalued and I'd love for Arsenal to go all out to keep him on. He's only a year older than Szczęsny and stepped up into the Prem expertly. Best situation is keep both, if Cech starts to fade then we have a very capable Ospina to step in (who, btw signed as a second choice just a year ago).

Ospina didn't sign as a second choice.

comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 6 minutes ago
Ospina didn't sign as a second choice.
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Of course Ospina didn't sign as second choice. He was signed as direct competition for first choice, and as soon as he was fit he started.

comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 8 minutes ago
Of course Ospina didn't sign as second choice. He was signed as direct competition for first choice, and as soon as he was fit he started.
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Have to agree to disagree on that

comment by The Delusion Swatter (U19684)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 8 minutes ago
Of course Ospina didn't sign as second choice. He was signed as direct competition for first choice, and as soon as he was fit he started.
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Have to agree to disagree on that
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DJ is right, Ospina was signed to compete for first choice. Wenger made it clear when he signed Ospina that whoever performed better between the two would be first choice.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2708498/David-Ospina-snapped-Arsenal-impressing-Colombia-World-Cup-like-brother-law-James-Rodriguez.html

People took one look at Ospina and decided he wasn't good enough.
And when I say 'took one look', I don't mean watched him play. I mean literally took one look, saw his height and his face, and decided he was crap.

comment by Grand Cannon (U18697)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by The Delusion Swatter (U19684)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 8 minutes ago
Of course Ospina didn't sign as second choice. He was signed as direct competition for first choice, and as soon as he was fit he started.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have to agree to disagree on that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
DJ is right, Ospina was signed to compete for first choice. Wenger made it clear when he signed Ospina that whoever performed better between the two would be first choice.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2708498/David-Ospina-snapped-Arsenal-impressing-Colombia-World-Cup-like-brother-law-James-Rodriguez.html

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A first choice didn't leave with Ospina coming in to take his place. Ospina obviously didn't come in without hope of taking the number one spot, apologies if what I said came across like that. He did IMO come in with Sczez as number one who would've remained number one had he not had a slump in form as well as acted like a tít off the field.

DJ - agree some people never warmed to him. For me personally, I would have been fine with him staying as Number one next season. But with Cech becoming available it made sense to make the step up.

comment by Posh Mufc Great Hafi Not Arrogant Just Better (U6578)
posted 59 minutes ago
Falcao should have scored I believe 6 or 7 goals that gamebut then again Di Matteo Chelsea are the worst ever side at defending. Even teams that concede 18 goals+ in group stage conceded far less chances then Di Matteo Chelsea side whose tactics are let the opposition have as many clear chances as they can and hope they miss.
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love hafi

Cech will probably bring about 5 or 6 points in actual terms, if that many. But it's not so much the number of points, but their distribution as such, that will be the difference. Rather than increasing the number of points WE get substantially. It's more likely he will effect the points we prevent the others in the top four getting.

It's not necessarily that he'll win us more games. It's that he'll win us more of the big games reducing rivals' points. Beating say Sunderland but losing to Utd is not as good as losing to Sunderland but beating Utd, in title hope terms. It's not just the number of points you take, but who you take them off of also, that decides where the title ends up.

Some points are more 'valuable' than others. That is where Cech will make the difference. He may well save/cost the exact same number of points as Ospina or Scez. But Cech's points will be made up of more of the valuable ones which influence the top of the table.

Older goalies conceding near post is reflex related. From the beginning, strikers are taught to aim far post, to increase second ball chances if the keeper saves. Keepers naturally incline toward defending that side of the goal. They set to save there as it's the most likely route of attack for the striker.

When a striker shoots near post, a keeper's almost always adjusting back from leaning toward far. So he's seeing the change from the expected and reacting to it. Older keepers have slower reflexes so are slower in that reaction. That's what makes positioning so important. You can get away with poorer positioning in your early twenties as your reflexes are quick enough to get you back to the right place. Pushing 30, you've got no chance of making the saves you made as a poorly positioned youngster because you just can't react that fast anymore.

This shows up in near post shot saves first because it's the shortest shot so the one where a keeper has the least amount of time to react.

Ospina is not some 12-year old who will only mature in 15 years' time. He had a very good start with us by any standards, and statistically one of the best in the PL by any keeper, so your "here and now" argument is completely pointless..
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How is it pointless? You are the one who has said that we should keep Ospina and 'develop' him. Well that is admittance that he is not developed enough now to win the title!

So how long do we wait? One season, two seasons? There is a very good chance that if we don't win the title next season or come very close, Wenger will call it day. And then any new manager will have his own ideas on the playing staff.

Either you believe Ospina will win you the title next season or you don't.

comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 28 minutes ago
People took one look at Ospina and decided he wasn't good enough.
And when I say 'took one look', I don't mean watched him play. I mean literally took one look, saw his height and his face, and decided he was crap.
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Dj, that happens with all players. This is why I talked about players without the reputation earning the respect of their fellow professionals. That takes time. This is the difference between players who come into the club that lift it because they have earner their corn elsewhere compared to players from France or poorer leagues who have to produce and carry on producing till they are established. To an extent this is why Mourinho only buys proven players now because he knows that they will give him the best opportunity to produce immediate results that clubs like Chelsea, Inter, Madrid expect.

http://www.flashscore.com/match/YcQjGt9N/#match-statistics;0
http://www.flashscore.com/match/YcQjGt9N/#video

It was at times Ospina vs Argentina

http://www1.skysports.com/football/argentina-vs-colombia/338153
I would say if Cech replaces Ospina you will probably drop 5 more points due to this.