.......in comparison to what we see now it was. Shocking pitches, people kicking lumps out of each other, and the fitness levels were nowhere near where they are now.
Ok gash is way too harsh but I stand by the fact that the technical quality, fitness, pace, abundance of world class players is all way higher now than then. Not to say there weren't some top level players in England, but the number of top level players increased dramatically when the prem started.
Whichever way you look at it Ray I think you're going to find ALOT of people saying the same thing if we do won the title. Most people think it's a superior achievement already. I accept you don't but you're going to read it just about everywhere if it does happen
A lot of people will say otherwise, it's subjective. You can have a majority of people who could be wrong, you have to look at what they know about the subject. If they start mentioning totally irrelevant things regularly in the discussions alarm bells should sound
On that note; if we ever had a debate about British Formula One champions you'd be talking about Lewis Hamilton taking on Sterling Moss head to head, in the vehicles from their respective eras. Totally irrelevant in these sort of discussions, the standards are similar for all. We're not talking about sticking the 1978 Forest team in the 2016 EPL FGS
I don't think I've mentioned anything that's irrelevant and hasn't been mentioned by a number of other people. The fact Peter Shilton makes the comparison is telling. He was there.
The fact Stuart Pearce makes the comparison and uses the example of the money in the PL making it much tougher than in Cloughs day shows it's not just me. Pearce played shortly after that era and managed in the PL.
Loads of pundits and ex players are making the comparison and nearly everything I've read says its a greater achievement because of the examples I've posted.
We will never be able to like for like compare the two but I think what's going to do your head in Ray is that of we do win it you will see a lot of 'greatest ever sporting achievement' splashed around a lot of headlines. Be prepared!
Can you dig out a link to the Shilton quotes? I've seen a story in the post where he was talking on the subject but not saying it would blow out of water etc.
I heard the Shilton interview. He was pushed into comparing Vardy with Woodcock and then Mahrez with Robertson. Then also mentioned Huth/Morgan with Burns and . He wasn't saying they were similar players, just that they were important to their sides in a similar way. He was asked whether Leicester winning league would be better than Forest's achievements and he said that it was on par with Forest's league win but that they would have to win the CL twice over next two seasons to come close. Taking all things into account, I'd probably agree about the league titles being on par. For all the reasons above you can argue both ways. BS makes some fair points although lets himself down with the gash comment which is simply not true.
Either way we have to applaud Leicester's achievement this season. It is frankly unbelievable and a remarkable achievement. They've had lots of luck with injuries and have taken advantage of other team's poor form but I don't think that takes anything away from the league win (if and when they get it).
May have been Vardy with Francis actually.
Burns and Lloyd! Dunno what happened there
Fair enough on the gash comment but I'm not having it that the football quality back then was similar to what it is now.
Depends whether you're comparing with competition or now. Any luck with the Shilton quotes?
I'm not old enough to say but I think it was. Quality isn't something you can really measure, it's purely subjective. Clearly the ball was different and the pitches etc. There were incredibly skilful players back then and previous to that. I don't think footballers have become better but perhaps their attributes are different these days. I watched a lot of football in the 90s and I don't think the current bunch are any better. If we look at the top top players in the world then the era doesn't influence quality in my opinion. Di Stefano was as good as Yaya Toure. Maradona certainly better than anyone in the Prem. Bobby Charlton and Dennis Law would be two of best players in the league now.
Maradona didn't move to England in 1982 when ill feelings about the Fauklands were rife. He chose Italy instead which proves that their league is par (blows it out of water) with ours in 1978
It's too easy
comment by Ray's Sarcastic Tone of Voice - FAH OUT (U18611)
posted 16 minutes ago
Depends whether you're comparing with competition or now. Any luck with the Shilton quotes?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was an interview with Sky sports in Feb, just google it.
It wasn't shilton who said that this achievement blows forests out the water that was Stuart Pearce on talksport just to be clear
comment by Ray's Sarcastic Tone of Voice - FAH OUT (U18611)
posted 2 minutes ago
Maradona didn't move to England in 1982 when ill feelings about the Fauklands were rife. He chose Italy instead which proves that their league is par (blows it out of water) with ours in 1978
It's too easy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You've lost me Ray. And rather than arrogantly making a little joke about how thick you think I am, can you just re-word the above.
Cheers
So how the hell are you using the par comment in that context? I was being sarcastic about it above, plus you mentioned in the past about Diego moving to Italy as an example player showing the lack of quality in England. You need to stick to a Igor level of debate, it's very easy to shoot holes in what you come out with it.
I'm sure there are those more convincing we could have tis debate with but wouldn't be as amusing
Some quotes for you Ray to add some weight to the comparison
Martin O Neill who played under Clough in that era. In this interview he also compares Mahrez to John Robertson. He says that Leicester winning the title would be equal to forests achievements.
Tony Pulis says in the same article that it would eclipse that achievement.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35877905
Here's the link for the Shilton interview where He draws the same parallels
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/22712/10155614/leicester-city-parallels-to-famous-nottingham-forest-side-says-peter-shilton
Michael Owen has said the same as Pulis and a number of other pundits
Most telling was Stuart Pearces comments on talksport and that's where he said 'If Leicester win it it will blow what Clough did out the water'
comment by Ray's Sarcastic Tone of Voice - FAH OUT (U18611)
posted 7 minutes ago
So how the hell are you using the par comment in that context? I was being sarcastic about it above, plus you mentioned in the past about Diego moving to Italy as an example player showing the lack of quality in England. You need to stick to a Igor level of debate, it's very easy to shoot holes in what you come out with it.
I'm sure there are those more convincing we could have tis debate with but wouldn't be as amusing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wow you're so arrogant on here it's unreal
I was just pre-empting that kind of response when I said don't call me thick because I asked for you to clarify your comments. Honestly the level of dismissiveness in your responses is staggering. Why can't you just have a civil debate?
I never said Maradona chose not to come to England because of a lack of quality. I was saying that the English leagues didn't have the best players in the world as the prem later went on to have. We have had ronaldo bale and Suarez. That's who teams getting promoted from the championship had to face.
The old English league never had the likes of Platini, Maradona, Cruyff playing in it, all of who were active in that era.
Oh dear, you specifically have been arguing "blow Forest in 78 out of the water" naming Shilton. It turns out that is a total misquote, and now you're pulling up parallel comments.
Reverse, reverse.
Very simply, when you get promoted now, you play against some of the worlds best. I take your point that this season it's not as good as it has been, but the English league was not the showcase of the worlds best footballing talent as the prem has been. It was 90% English back then
comment by Ray's Sarcastic Tone of Voice - FAH OUT (U18611)
posted 2 minutes ago
Oh dear, you specifically have been arguing "blow Forest in 78 out of the water" naming Shilton. It turns out that is a total misquote, and now you're pulling up parallel comments.
Reverse, reverse.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I said it was Stuart Pearce who said that phrase. I read that shilton had said similar but happy to admit I was wrong. That's called humility Ray. Would love to see you show some
I'm looking forward to a, not finishing on the bottom of the group stage of the Champions League being on par with at least one European Cup wins
The trouble with you Ray is you've let the likes of Iwas rub off on you. You've sunk to their level of wummery, unable to have a proper debate without sarcasm, being dismissive and all the other things you don't like Derby fans for.
You're no better than them
You said Shilton and Pearce said that, page two
comment by Ray's Sarcastic Tone of Voice - FAH OUT (U18611)
posted 28 seconds ago
I'm looking forward to a, not finishing on the bottom of the group stage of the Champions League being on par with at least one European Cup wins
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have a long way to go to match forests overall achievement but I agree with forest legend Stuart Pearce that Leicesters potential achievement beats forests in 78
comment by Ray's Sarcastic Tone of Voice - FAH OUT (U18611)
posted 0 seconds ago
You said Shilton and Pearce said that, page two
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was wrong. I knew Pearce had said that and I thought shilton had said similar but he hadn't. It was a mistake which I've corrected.
Doesn't change my opinion which you clearly struggle to deal with. Also shilton and Oneill make the same comparisons that you don't like Leicester fans doing
Sign in if you want to comment
Are you watching Nottingham?
Page 4 of 5
posted on 6/4/16
.......in comparison to what we see now it was. Shocking pitches, people kicking lumps out of each other, and the fitness levels were nowhere near where they are now.
Ok gash is way too harsh but I stand by the fact that the technical quality, fitness, pace, abundance of world class players is all way higher now than then. Not to say there weren't some top level players in England, but the number of top level players increased dramatically when the prem started.
Whichever way you look at it Ray I think you're going to find ALOT of people saying the same thing if we do won the title. Most people think it's a superior achievement already. I accept you don't but you're going to read it just about everywhere if it does happen
posted on 6/4/16
A lot of people will say otherwise, it's subjective. You can have a majority of people who could be wrong, you have to look at what they know about the subject. If they start mentioning totally irrelevant things regularly in the discussions alarm bells should sound
On that note; if we ever had a debate about British Formula One champions you'd be talking about Lewis Hamilton taking on Sterling Moss head to head, in the vehicles from their respective eras. Totally irrelevant in these sort of discussions, the standards are similar for all. We're not talking about sticking the 1978 Forest team in the 2016 EPL FGS
posted on 6/4/16
I don't think I've mentioned anything that's irrelevant and hasn't been mentioned by a number of other people. The fact Peter Shilton makes the comparison is telling. He was there.
The fact Stuart Pearce makes the comparison and uses the example of the money in the PL making it much tougher than in Cloughs day shows it's not just me. Pearce played shortly after that era and managed in the PL.
Loads of pundits and ex players are making the comparison and nearly everything I've read says its a greater achievement because of the examples I've posted.
We will never be able to like for like compare the two but I think what's going to do your head in Ray is that of we do win it you will see a lot of 'greatest ever sporting achievement' splashed around a lot of headlines. Be prepared!
posted on 6/4/16
Can you dig out a link to the Shilton quotes? I've seen a story in the post where he was talking on the subject but not saying it would blow out of water etc.
posted on 6/4/16
I heard the Shilton interview. He was pushed into comparing Vardy with Woodcock and then Mahrez with Robertson. Then also mentioned Huth/Morgan with Burns and . He wasn't saying they were similar players, just that they were important to their sides in a similar way. He was asked whether Leicester winning league would be better than Forest's achievements and he said that it was on par with Forest's league win but that they would have to win the CL twice over next two seasons to come close. Taking all things into account, I'd probably agree about the league titles being on par. For all the reasons above you can argue both ways. BS makes some fair points although lets himself down with the gash comment which is simply not true.
Either way we have to applaud Leicester's achievement this season. It is frankly unbelievable and a remarkable achievement. They've had lots of luck with injuries and have taken advantage of other team's poor form but I don't think that takes anything away from the league win (if and when they get it).
posted on 6/4/16
May have been Vardy with Francis actually.
posted on 6/4/16
Burns and Lloyd! Dunno what happened there
posted on 6/4/16
Fair enough on the gash comment but I'm not having it that the football quality back then was similar to what it is now.
posted on 6/4/16
Depends whether you're comparing with competition or now. Any luck with the Shilton quotes?
posted on 6/4/16
I'm not old enough to say but I think it was. Quality isn't something you can really measure, it's purely subjective. Clearly the ball was different and the pitches etc. There were incredibly skilful players back then and previous to that. I don't think footballers have become better but perhaps their attributes are different these days. I watched a lot of football in the 90s and I don't think the current bunch are any better. If we look at the top top players in the world then the era doesn't influence quality in my opinion. Di Stefano was as good as Yaya Toure. Maradona certainly better than anyone in the Prem. Bobby Charlton and Dennis Law would be two of best players in the league now.
posted on 6/4/16
Maradona didn't move to England in 1982 when ill feelings about the Fauklands were rife. He chose Italy instead which proves that their league is par (blows it out of water) with ours in 1978
It's too easy
posted on 6/4/16
comment by Ray's Sarcastic Tone of Voice - FAH OUT (U18611)
posted 16 minutes ago
Depends whether you're comparing with competition or now. Any luck with the Shilton quotes?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was an interview with Sky sports in Feb, just google it.
It wasn't shilton who said that this achievement blows forests out the water that was Stuart Pearce on talksport just to be clear
posted on 6/4/16
comment by Ray's Sarcastic Tone of Voice - FAH OUT (U18611)
posted 2 minutes ago
Maradona didn't move to England in 1982 when ill feelings about the Fauklands were rife. He chose Italy instead which proves that their league is par (blows it out of water) with ours in 1978
It's too easy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You've lost me Ray. And rather than arrogantly making a little joke about how thick you think I am, can you just re-word the above.
Cheers
posted on 6/4/16
So how the hell are you using the par comment in that context? I was being sarcastic about it above, plus you mentioned in the past about Diego moving to Italy as an example player showing the lack of quality in England. You need to stick to a Igor level of debate, it's very easy to shoot holes in what you come out with it.
I'm sure there are those more convincing we could have tis debate with but wouldn't be as amusing
posted on 6/4/16
Some quotes for you Ray to add some weight to the comparison
Martin O Neill who played under Clough in that era. In this interview he also compares Mahrez to John Robertson. He says that Leicester winning the title would be equal to forests achievements.
Tony Pulis says in the same article that it would eclipse that achievement.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35877905
Here's the link for the Shilton interview where He draws the same parallels
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/22712/10155614/leicester-city-parallels-to-famous-nottingham-forest-side-says-peter-shilton
Michael Owen has said the same as Pulis and a number of other pundits
Most telling was Stuart Pearces comments on talksport and that's where he said 'If Leicester win it it will blow what Clough did out the water'
posted on 6/4/16
comment by Ray's Sarcastic Tone of Voice - FAH OUT (U18611)
posted 7 minutes ago
So how the hell are you using the par comment in that context? I was being sarcastic about it above, plus you mentioned in the past about Diego moving to Italy as an example player showing the lack of quality in England. You need to stick to a Igor level of debate, it's very easy to shoot holes in what you come out with it.
I'm sure there are those more convincing we could have tis debate with but wouldn't be as amusing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wow you're so arrogant on here it's unreal
I was just pre-empting that kind of response when I said don't call me thick because I asked for you to clarify your comments. Honestly the level of dismissiveness in your responses is staggering. Why can't you just have a civil debate?
I never said Maradona chose not to come to England because of a lack of quality. I was saying that the English leagues didn't have the best players in the world as the prem later went on to have. We have had ronaldo bale and Suarez. That's who teams getting promoted from the championship had to face.
The old English league never had the likes of Platini, Maradona, Cruyff playing in it, all of who were active in that era.
posted on 6/4/16
Oh dear, you specifically have been arguing "blow Forest in 78 out of the water" naming Shilton. It turns out that is a total misquote, and now you're pulling up parallel comments.
Reverse, reverse.
posted on 6/4/16
Very simply, when you get promoted now, you play against some of the worlds best. I take your point that this season it's not as good as it has been, but the English league was not the showcase of the worlds best footballing talent as the prem has been. It was 90% English back then
posted on 6/4/16
posted on 6/4/16
comment by Ray's Sarcastic Tone of Voice - FAH OUT (U18611)
posted 2 minutes ago
Oh dear, you specifically have been arguing "blow Forest in 78 out of the water" naming Shilton. It turns out that is a total misquote, and now you're pulling up parallel comments.
Reverse, reverse.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I said it was Stuart Pearce who said that phrase. I read that shilton had said similar but happy to admit I was wrong. That's called humility Ray. Would love to see you show some
posted on 6/4/16
I'm looking forward to a, not finishing on the bottom of the group stage of the Champions League being on par with at least one European Cup wins
posted on 6/4/16
The trouble with you Ray is you've let the likes of Iwas rub off on you. You've sunk to their level of wummery, unable to have a proper debate without sarcasm, being dismissive and all the other things you don't like Derby fans for.
You're no better than them
posted on 6/4/16
You said Shilton and Pearce said that, page two
posted on 6/4/16
comment by Ray's Sarcastic Tone of Voice - FAH OUT (U18611)
posted 28 seconds ago
I'm looking forward to a, not finishing on the bottom of the group stage of the Champions League being on par with at least one European Cup wins
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have a long way to go to match forests overall achievement but I agree with forest legend Stuart Pearce that Leicesters potential achievement beats forests in 78
posted on 6/4/16
comment by Ray's Sarcastic Tone of Voice - FAH OUT (U18611)
posted 0 seconds ago
You said Shilton and Pearce said that, page two
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was wrong. I knew Pearce had said that and I thought shilton had said similar but he hadn't. It was a mistake which I've corrected.
Doesn't change my opinion which you clearly struggle to deal with. Also shilton and Oneill make the same comparisons that you don't like Leicester fans doing
Page 4 of 5