Whys that then ?

Yes two different subjects / topics , but never the less an issue which required the population to vote , producing an outcome , which meant one group would win . one group would loose.

Zlatan, why wouldn't you say it been graciously accepted, I assume you have seen the acceptance speeches from Hilary Clinton, President Obama, and Donald Trump?

For democracy to work, you dont necessarily require a particularly well educated, or even politically aware electorate, you just require a certain amount of honesty from the candidates.
Both were sadly lacking in both the EU referendum, and the Presidential election.
I dont mind an idealist, or hyper optimist, who actually believe they have come up with a plan to change things to improve the lives of people generally.
What I do have an issue with, are scheming liars, who knowingly deceive people, and play on their desperation and ignorance, knowing full well they either have no real plan, or any real intention to do what they say they are going to do.

"The question was asked the majority responded , why is this not being graciously accepted , why can't the losers get behind the government and cease the opportunity that this vote has given the people"

Is the above how you would describe democracy?

Surely democracy is about opposing opinions and having the freedom to air them. It doesn't work on the basis of if you lose the vote (what you believe to be the best for your country) you should treat it with apathy and tow the party line.

Oh, I thought you meant graciously accepted by the people that voted.

Well the processes are entirely different. Your use of the words 'required the population to vote' is a great example seeing as Clinton actually won the popular vote but not the presidency.

"The question was asked the majority responded , why is this not being graciously accepted , why can't the losers get behind the government and cease the opportunity that this vote has given the people"
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Seem to be hearing a lot of this type of skewed b0ll0x since the brexit vote.
Of course its complete and utter nonsense, spouted by morons mostly.

I think largely the issue remain voters have with the aftermath is the seeming lack of any plan on how to exit Europe. We're now what, over 4 months on, and nothing has happened.

The people who campaigned so strongly have now jumped ship, and those left are looking around waiting for someone to step forward.

I think if there was a clear plan for how we'd make the most of the situation, I think it would have been accepted better. But as it is, nothing has changed except we have annoyed our neighbours in Europe and tanked our currrency because of the umming and ahing.

It's not exactly been a productive few months for Britain has it?

comment by ifarka, (U8182)
posted 16 minutes ago
Emre, what are you banging on about ?

Are you suggesting that the voters for Brexit are all ignorant racist Mmmugs.

Why don't you take a little time and educate your self as to the real problems in the UK and get off your pompous rocking horse.
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Somebody's touchy...

I'm not saying everybody who voted for Brexit is an ignorant moron but let's face it, how many of the voting public do you genuinely believe know what they were voting for?

Most of them (not all, calm yourself) voted with the belief that Turkey will join the EU, we'd be £100s of millions better off every week, all our rules are dictated by the EU and leaving the EU would solve many of the problems Britain itself has created.

Disagree? Tell me why without telling me to get off my "pompous rocking horse" whatever that means. Debate like an adult.

Jlou, so you feel that the genuine grievances of the population are of no concern and have no importance when compared to the opinion of a group of people who are substantially better off who do not share the same hardships ?

Seems a little one sided to me for some unknown reason !

Also there will be another election in four years. That won't happen with Brexit.

comment by Zlatan The King Ibrahimovic (U10026)
posted 5 minutes ago
Also there will be another election in four years. That won't happen with Brexit.
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That's an interesting point. People saying that Trump has implications for America as big of those of Brexit are simply wrong. America has had good presidents and bad presidents, and long run, it hasn't changed anything permanently.

The EU referendum is absolute. Even if we are allowed back in at a later date, the terms will be utterly different to what we have now.

Igor, the facts are that there was never going to a prepared exit as it depends on the process which can only be triggered by article 52 .

This is not helped by a very bitter European Union who fail to recognize that Europe has several very serious problems of its own , so getting entangled from this was never going to be a straight forward process.

But the Government has agreed to support the vote and destabilizing this seems to adding to the lethargy ,being created by not uniting the country.

Erme, Bay gardash, ( forgive my poor Turkish spelling)

its easy to suggest the Brexit vote was a quasi racist vote, yes it does bring out all types nationalists and so on, but there is global dissatisfaction with the current political system, people are sick and tired and any chance to vote for change is challenging the establishment, Imo.

The presidential election is a win/lose situation,very clear cut.

Brexit referendum was an advisory decision that should be respected but its a complete mess as to how we go about it. Not clear cut.

Igor, excellent point, the law lords up held the challenge against Brexit , because it was suggested that the population were not fully informed the vote was absolute.

Which is totally absurd in my view.

comment by If anyone can, Emre Can... Britain just failed its IQ Test. (U3979)
posted 40 minutes ago
comment by The fackin Gaffer (U6283)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by If anyone can, Emre Can... Britain just failed its IQ Test. (U3979)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The fackin Gaffer (U6283)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Lupin (U6089)
posted 1 minute ago
its abundantly clear that all sides are prepared to accept the choice of the election , and abide by the democratic vote
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I never understand this blind faith in democracy. If the majority vote for a genocide does that make it right? I'm not saying Trump elected as president is as bad as a genocide. It's just something I don't understand about the logic behind democracy. Surely there must be a more justified merit-based system which can differentiate between qualified and unqualified voters?
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Really what makes ur vote better than mine apart from potentially opinion
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Intelligence maybe?


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So how we judge who should vote, iq score, education, salary
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I do think there should be some sort of qualification you need to pass to show you actually have a clue about what you're voting for.

Do you not think Brexit would have made more sense had people been educated and only those that understood the risks and advantages were allowed to vote?
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Yeah maybe a test in politics and international relation. But one can argue that a dictator can manipulate the test. I have no clear answer really. I just think that there must be a better system if we think hard enough.

Hector, wrong , this is being suggested by the challenge and remain voters

This referendum was unquestionably presented as an absolute vote as was the Scottish vote recently.

Ifarka
I'm a remainer that accepts the result but its anything but clear cut.

Igor, yep exactly.

Ifarka, I think the point with Brexit is that it is against the law to invoke order 66 without parlimentary approval.

Like I said, not comparable to a democratic election where to rules are laod there before everyone prior to the vote - that never happened with the referendum, and why it's been a complete shambles since due to lack of knowledge and strategy by all around the subject.

comment by Zlatan The King Ibrahimovic (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
Igor, yep exactly.

Ifarka, I think the point with Brexit is that it is against the law to invoke order 66 without parlimentary approval.

Like I said, not comparable to a democratic election where to rules are laod there before everyone prior to the vote - that never happened with the referendum, and why it's been a complete shambles since due to lack of knowledge and strategy by all around the subject.
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I really hope "order 66" was tongue in cheek.

Jlou, so you feel that the genuine grievances of the population are of no concern and have no importance when compared to the opinion of a group of people who are substantially better off who do not share the same hardships ?
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So you think Donald Trump has a genuine concern about the condition and grievances of the middle classes of America ?
Really ?
The mans a con artist, and a not very good one at that.
Hes played those voters for fools, and will eventually come unstuck when they dont all go back to work, new car plants dont reopen, steel works stay mothballed, and the trickle down economic model he seems intent on introducing, serves only to improve the income and lifestyles of people just like him.
And it is for that very reason that people shouldnt mindlessly get behind the winner of this election, because the mans a fraud, and anyone who cannot see that for themselves, might be ultimately thankful to others who might help expose him, before he does too much damage.
Thats how a real, and healthy democracy should work.
Donald Trump rages against elitists within Washington, but he himself his now pretty much the number 1 politician in the world, and 1 of the 'elite' 365 billionaires, in a country of 330,000,000 people.
This is THE ultimate vanity project for Trump, and hes used the fears and concerns of some, and the hatred and bigotry of others, to realise it.
America has become a laughing stock, and a major concern to the world in equal measure almost overnight.

Yeah of course.

comment by Zlatan The King Ibrahimovic (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
Yeah of course.
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Thought so. There was a part of me that hoped it was an epic mistype though

Zlat, did you question the Scottish referendum ?

If your trying to tell me that the referendum was not presented as a binding vote, I find that seriously questionable, lets face it we spent nigh on two months being informed by every political party and news out let that once we voted out , out was out , not half in and half out.

The challenge has suggested that this was not the case.

Its ridiculous in all honestly.

Poor losers trying to move the goal posts

Like I said Zlat, I bet you took the Scottish vote for what it was as everyone else did.

Jlou, I do not give a damm as to what Trump or Clinton feel , I'm more concerned about ordinary people who are suffering black , white , green or red.

Globaly there is a move against established politicians and politics