Don
As I have said I rate Messi, but I don't particularly rate the Spanish league he has played his entire career in, same goes for Ronaldo. I think there are two or three decent teams, but the rest of the teams are more or less gimmes for Real and Barca. It is no coincidence that both are plundering goals at the same time in the same era.
Both Maradona and Messi were/are superb. Messi has the stats argument going for him, but Maradona played for weaker teams and still achieved great things with them, in an era when players weren't as protected.
comment by Loco Liverpool (U18018)
posted 1 minute ago
Pele's real goal tally is nearer to 650, which you'd expect both Messi and Ronaldo to pass.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Er no Pele's goal total is 1,000. You cannot just wipe out 350 goals to suit an argument.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
The greatest English player of all time is Jimmy Greaves by a distance, followed by Gascoigne and Moore
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Loco Liverpool (U18018)
posted 1 minute ago
Pele's real goal tally is nearer to 650, which you'd expect both Messi and Ronaldo to pass.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Er no Pele's goal total is 1,000. You cannot just wipe out 350 goals to suit an argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That total includes friendlies and tour games
In competitive games, Pele got 619 for Santos, 31 for New York Cosmos
So thats 650.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
If players are ranked based on international tournament performances, Jimmy Greaves wouldn't rank in the top 100 strikers of all time. It's a foolish way of judging players. European club football is by absolute miles the highest level of football in the modern game and the ultimate test of a player's true ability. Thomas Muller doing better than Messi or Ronaldo in an international tournament doesn't mean he'll ever be worthy to clean their boots.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
The greatest English player of all time is Jimmy Greaves by a distance, followed by Gascoigne and Moore
----------------------------------------------
Gascoigne? He had a very short career prime. He has nothing like the enduring legacy that would make him a top 3 - probably even top 10 - English players.
My step dad was at Napoli when el Diego was there.. The stories he tells
Pele did well in a league up against Pig Farmers FC and Sheep Herders United.
Nah, in all seriousness Pele is one of the all time greats. That 1000 goals thing though is a touch over-promoted, by none other than Pele himself, and some of his more well known clips of him make him look a bit overrated e.g. doing the great dummy past the keeper and then missing a practically open goal.
When you watch these videos of Maradona waltzing past players, with incredible touch, pace, balance, imagination, control, and speed of thought, its worth bearing in mind that most of those pitches he was playing on were absolute dog $h!t, beyond the fact many of the opposition were trying to cut him in two.
If you want to base it on pure stats, then fine, but for me theres an overwhelming beauty to Maradonas play, that certainly hasnt been matched by anyone Ive seen since him.
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 1 minute ago
If players are ranked based on international tournament performances, Jimmy Greaves wouldn't rank in the top 100 strikers of all time. It's a foolish way of judging players. European club football is by absolute miles the highest level of football in the modern game and the ultimate test of a player's true ability. Thomas Muller doing better than Messi or Ronaldo in an international tournament doesn't mean he'll ever be worthy to clean their boots.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, but we are only talking about the modern game. Back 30 years and more ago, the pinnacle of football was the World Cup. Winning a world cup easily outstripped winning a domestic league or a European competition.
comment by jlou1978 (U15376)
posted 15 seconds ago
When you watch these videos of Maradona waltzing past players, with incredible touch, pace, balance, imagination, control, and speed of thought, its worth bearing in mind that most of those pitches he was playing on were absolute dog $h!t, beyond the fact many of the opposition were trying to cut him in two.
If you want to base it on pure stats, then fine, but for me theres an overwhelming beauty to Maradonas play, that certainly hasnt been matched by anyone Ive seen since him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not often I agree with a scouser but that is spot on
comment by jlou1978 (U15376)
posted 18 seconds ago
When you watch these videos of Maradona waltzing past players, with incredible touch, pace, balance, imagination, control, and speed of thought, its worth bearing in mind that most of those pitches he was playing on were absolute dog $h!t, beyond the fact many of the opposition were trying to cut him in two.
If you want to base it on pure stats, then fine, but for me theres an overwhelming beauty to Maradonas play, that certainly hasnt been matched by anyone Ive seen since him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True. Just look at the pitch Argentina and England played on in 86. Makes his second goal in that all the more impressive.
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Loco Liverpool (U18018)
posted 1 minute ago
Pele's real goal tally is nearer to 650, which you'd expect both Messi and Ronaldo to pass.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Er no Pele's goal total is 1,000. You cannot just wipe out 350 goals to suit an argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That total includes friendlies and tour games
In competitive games, Pele got 619 for Santos, 31 for New York Cosmos
So thats 650.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You seem to have conveniently left out his 77 International goals.
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Loco Liverpool (U18018)
posted 1 minute ago
Pele's real goal tally is nearer to 650, which you'd expect both Messi and Ronaldo to pass.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Er no Pele's goal total is 1,000. You cannot just wipe out 350 goals to suit an argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That total includes friendlies and tour games
In competitive games, Pele got 619 for Santos, 31 for New York Cosmos
So thats 650.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You seem to have conveniently left out his 77 International goals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok so 722, still not 1000.
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Loco Liverpool (U18018)
posted 1 minute ago
Pele's real goal tally is nearer to 650, which you'd expect both Messi and Ronaldo to pass.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Er no Pele's goal total is 1,000. You cannot just wipe out 350 goals to suit an argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That total includes friendlies and tour games
In competitive games, Pele got 619 for Santos, 31 for New York Cosmos
So thats 650.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You seem to have conveniently left out his 77 International goals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok so 722, still not 1000.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
727 ffs
As I have said I rate Messi, but I don't particularly rate the Spanish league he has played his entire career in, same goes for Ronaldo. I think there are two or three decent teams, but the rest of the teams are more or less gimmes for Real and Barca. It is no coincidence that both are plundering goals at the same time in the same era.
-----------------------------------
The Spanish league has comfortably been the best league in Europe for close to 2 decades. It dominates both tiers of European competition. It's produced the players for the most successful national team in the last decade. It's produced the overwhelming majority of Ballon D'Or winners for ages: even before Messi and Ronaldo. What does it mean exactly to say you don't "rate" the Spanish league?
I agree, but we are only talking about the modern game. Back 30 years and more ago, the pinnacle of football was the World Cup. Winning a world cup easily outstripped winning a domestic league or a European competition.
-----------------------------------
Then we're making the same point. The World Cup is not exactly irrelevant in judging players, but in modern football, it's no measure of the true level of players. Some South Korean or Ghanaian or Costa Rican could have a brilliant World Cup while Messi or Ronaldo have a sheite World Cup. What does it really matter? Karagounis was brilliant when Greece won Euro 2004. He was still a mediocre player who belonged in mid-table teams across Europe's top leagues.
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 3 minutes ago
As I have said I rate Messi, but I don't particularly rate the Spanish league he has played his entire career in, same goes for Ronaldo. I think there are two or three decent teams, but the rest of the teams are more or less gimmes for Real and Barca. It is no coincidence that both are plundering goals at the same time in the same era.
-----------------------------------
The Spanish league has comfortably been the best league in Europe for close to 2 decades. It dominates both tiers of European competition. It's produced the players for the most successful national team in the last decade. It's produced the overwhelming majority of Ballon D'Or winners for ages: even before Messi and Ronaldo. What does it mean exactly to say you don't "rate" the Spanish league?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's foreign innit,
"Hasn't done it on a wet night in Stoke" etc.
True sheriff, all that at the same time as being about as competitive as the SPL
Jimmy Greaves ahead of the real Ronaldo!
Riggght
Sign in if you want to comment
Greatest Footballer of all time
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posted on 7/9/17
Don
As I have said I rate Messi, but I don't particularly rate the Spanish league he has played his entire career in, same goes for Ronaldo. I think there are two or three decent teams, but the rest of the teams are more or less gimmes for Real and Barca. It is no coincidence that both are plundering goals at the same time in the same era.
posted on 7/9/17
Both Maradona and Messi were/are superb. Messi has the stats argument going for him, but Maradona played for weaker teams and still achieved great things with them, in an era when players weren't as protected.
posted on 7/9/17
Maradona all day long
posted on 7/9/17
comment by Loco Liverpool (U18018)
posted 1 minute ago
Pele's real goal tally is nearer to 650, which you'd expect both Messi and Ronaldo to pass.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Er no Pele's goal total is 1,000. You cannot just wipe out 350 goals to suit an argument.
posted on 7/9/17
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 7/9/17
The greatest English player of all time is Jimmy Greaves by a distance, followed by Gascoigne and Moore
posted on 7/9/17
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Loco Liverpool (U18018)
posted 1 minute ago
Pele's real goal tally is nearer to 650, which you'd expect both Messi and Ronaldo to pass.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Er no Pele's goal total is 1,000. You cannot just wipe out 350 goals to suit an argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That total includes friendlies and tour games
In competitive games, Pele got 619 for Santos, 31 for New York Cosmos
So thats 650.
posted on 7/9/17
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 7/9/17
If players are ranked based on international tournament performances, Jimmy Greaves wouldn't rank in the top 100 strikers of all time. It's a foolish way of judging players. European club football is by absolute miles the highest level of football in the modern game and the ultimate test of a player's true ability. Thomas Muller doing better than Messi or Ronaldo in an international tournament doesn't mean he'll ever be worthy to clean their boots.
posted on 7/9/17
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 7/9/17
The greatest English player of all time is Jimmy Greaves by a distance, followed by Gascoigne and Moore
----------------------------------------------
Gascoigne? He had a very short career prime. He has nothing like the enduring legacy that would make him a top 3 - probably even top 10 - English players.
posted on 7/9/17
My step dad was at Napoli when el Diego was there.. The stories he tells
posted on 7/9/17
Pele did well in a league up against Pig Farmers FC and Sheep Herders United.
Nah, in all seriousness Pele is one of the all time greats. That 1000 goals thing though is a touch over-promoted, by none other than Pele himself, and some of his more well known clips of him make him look a bit overrated e.g. doing the great dummy past the keeper and then missing a practically open goal.
posted on 7/9/17
When you watch these videos of Maradona waltzing past players, with incredible touch, pace, balance, imagination, control, and speed of thought, its worth bearing in mind that most of those pitches he was playing on were absolute dog $h!t, beyond the fact many of the opposition were trying to cut him in two.
If you want to base it on pure stats, then fine, but for me theres an overwhelming beauty to Maradonas play, that certainly hasnt been matched by anyone Ive seen since him.
posted on 7/9/17
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 1 minute ago
If players are ranked based on international tournament performances, Jimmy Greaves wouldn't rank in the top 100 strikers of all time. It's a foolish way of judging players. European club football is by absolute miles the highest level of football in the modern game and the ultimate test of a player's true ability. Thomas Muller doing better than Messi or Ronaldo in an international tournament doesn't mean he'll ever be worthy to clean their boots.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, but we are only talking about the modern game. Back 30 years and more ago, the pinnacle of football was the World Cup. Winning a world cup easily outstripped winning a domestic league or a European competition.
posted on 7/9/17
comment by jlou1978 (U15376)
posted 15 seconds ago
When you watch these videos of Maradona waltzing past players, with incredible touch, pace, balance, imagination, control, and speed of thought, its worth bearing in mind that most of those pitches he was playing on were absolute dog $h!t, beyond the fact many of the opposition were trying to cut him in two.
If you want to base it on pure stats, then fine, but for me theres an overwhelming beauty to Maradonas play, that certainly hasnt been matched by anyone Ive seen since him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not often I agree with a scouser but that is spot on
posted on 7/9/17
comment by jlou1978 (U15376)
posted 18 seconds ago
When you watch these videos of Maradona waltzing past players, with incredible touch, pace, balance, imagination, control, and speed of thought, its worth bearing in mind that most of those pitches he was playing on were absolute dog $h!t, beyond the fact many of the opposition were trying to cut him in two.
If you want to base it on pure stats, then fine, but for me theres an overwhelming beauty to Maradonas play, that certainly hasnt been matched by anyone Ive seen since him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True. Just look at the pitch Argentina and England played on in 86. Makes his second goal in that all the more impressive.
posted on 7/9/17
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Loco Liverpool (U18018)
posted 1 minute ago
Pele's real goal tally is nearer to 650, which you'd expect both Messi and Ronaldo to pass.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Er no Pele's goal total is 1,000. You cannot just wipe out 350 goals to suit an argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That total includes friendlies and tour games
In competitive games, Pele got 619 for Santos, 31 for New York Cosmos
So thats 650.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You seem to have conveniently left out his 77 International goals.
posted on 7/9/17
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Loco Liverpool (U18018)
posted 1 minute ago
Pele's real goal tally is nearer to 650, which you'd expect both Messi and Ronaldo to pass.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Er no Pele's goal total is 1,000. You cannot just wipe out 350 goals to suit an argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That total includes friendlies and tour games
In competitive games, Pele got 619 for Santos, 31 for New York Cosmos
So thats 650.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You seem to have conveniently left out his 77 International goals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok so 722, still not 1000.
posted on 7/9/17
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Loco Liverpool (U18018)
posted 1 minute ago
Pele's real goal tally is nearer to 650, which you'd expect both Messi and Ronaldo to pass.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Er no Pele's goal total is 1,000. You cannot just wipe out 350 goals to suit an argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That total includes friendlies and tour games
In competitive games, Pele got 619 for Santos, 31 for New York Cosmos
So thats 650.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You seem to have conveniently left out his 77 International goals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok so 722, still not 1000.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
727 ffs
posted on 7/9/17
As I have said I rate Messi, but I don't particularly rate the Spanish league he has played his entire career in, same goes for Ronaldo. I think there are two or three decent teams, but the rest of the teams are more or less gimmes for Real and Barca. It is no coincidence that both are plundering goals at the same time in the same era.
-----------------------------------
The Spanish league has comfortably been the best league in Europe for close to 2 decades. It dominates both tiers of European competition. It's produced the players for the most successful national team in the last decade. It's produced the overwhelming majority of Ballon D'Or winners for ages: even before Messi and Ronaldo. What does it mean exactly to say you don't "rate" the Spanish league?
posted on 7/9/17
I agree, but we are only talking about the modern game. Back 30 years and more ago, the pinnacle of football was the World Cup. Winning a world cup easily outstripped winning a domestic league or a European competition.
-----------------------------------
Then we're making the same point. The World Cup is not exactly irrelevant in judging players, but in modern football, it's no measure of the true level of players. Some South Korean or Ghanaian or Costa Rican could have a brilliant World Cup while Messi or Ronaldo have a sheite World Cup. What does it really matter? Karagounis was brilliant when Greece won Euro 2004. He was still a mediocre player who belonged in mid-table teams across Europe's top leagues.
posted on 7/9/17
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 3 minutes ago
As I have said I rate Messi, but I don't particularly rate the Spanish league he has played his entire career in, same goes for Ronaldo. I think there are two or three decent teams, but the rest of the teams are more or less gimmes for Real and Barca. It is no coincidence that both are plundering goals at the same time in the same era.
-----------------------------------
The Spanish league has comfortably been the best league in Europe for close to 2 decades. It dominates both tiers of European competition. It's produced the players for the most successful national team in the last decade. It's produced the overwhelming majority of Ballon D'Or winners for ages: even before Messi and Ronaldo. What does it mean exactly to say you don't "rate" the Spanish league?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's foreign innit,
"Hasn't done it on a wet night in Stoke" etc.
posted on 7/9/17
True sheriff, all that at the same time as being about as competitive as the SPL
posted on 7/9/17
Jimmy Greaves ahead of the real Ronaldo!
Riggght
Page 3 of 7
6 | 7