comment by Always Angry (U22014)
posted 10 hours, 54 minutes ago
Its just Boris showing he be just as big a tw@t as Trump
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think, much like Blair with Bush, Boris WANTS to be like Drumpf. They look up to these US leaders and lead the rest of us into stupidity.
I don't think anything will be better about leaving the EU. I'm totally against it but accept it's possible I'm wrong. That's my point , why are we hearing nothing to convince us other than jingoistic soundbites. If there is a good case for it other than "regain our sovereignty"and other such meaningless nonsense let's hear it
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
If you give Nazzi reasons of course people will call you out for it.
We can all see the very obvious negatives, what positives are you looking forwards to?
======
350m to the NHS instead of Europe to begin with.
comment by Klopptimus Prime - Die Unerträglichen (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 26 minutes ago
We can all see the very obvious negatives, what positives are you looking forwards to?
======
350m to the NHS instead of Europe to begin with.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Klopptimus Prime - Die Unerträglichen (U1282)
posted 2 hours, 19 minutes ago
We can all see the very obvious negatives, what positives are you looking forwards to?
======
350m to the NHS instead of Europe to begin with.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wonder if this is sarcasm but on the off chance it isn't... this one has been debunked so, so many times. The NHS will not see increased investment. It will be sold off and we are likely to see an implementation of the American style healthcare "system"
What else? Or is that what you're excited about?
comment by Bracewells_wedge (U20835)
posted 4 hours, 32 minutes ago
I don't think anything will be better about leaving the EU. I'm totally against it but accept it's possible I'm wrong. That's my point , why are we hearing nothing to convince us other than jingoistic soundbites. If there is a good case for it other than "regain our sovereignty"and other such meaningless nonsense let's hear it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apologies... I asked the wrong person.
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 18 hours, 29 minutes ago
comment by Bales (U22081)
posted 15 hours, 35 minutes ago
The sooner we get out of the EU the better
---
What will actually be better, though?
We can all see the very obvious negatives, what positives are you looking forwards to?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm keen to learn this too. You hear a lot of very general statements like "the sooner we're out the better" but when you ask for specifics, you get (at best) the same statement regurgitated or (at worst) something generally xenophobic about getting foreigners out.
So Bracewells_wedge... what exactly will be better about the UK leaving the EU?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ThE ReVoLuTiOn Is Here, this one was for you...
comment by wearethefamousTHFC (U19211)
posted 2 hours, 44 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 15 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by Bales (U22081)
posted 15 hours, 35 minutes ago
The sooner we get out of the EU the better
---
What will actually be better, though?
We can all see the very obvious negatives, what positives are you looking forwards to?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm keen to learn this too. You hear a lot of very general statements like "the sooner we're out the better" but when you ask for specifics, you get (at best) the same statement regurgitated or (at worst) something generally xenophobic about getting foreigners out.
So Bracewells_wedge... what exactly will be better about the UK leaving the EU?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
either way, even if you give your genuine reasons you get shouted down and called a nazzi ... people no longer debate just shout
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're right that people are quick to escalate but I see way more vitriol, name calling and intolerance from those who support Brexit than those who want to remain. This is not to say that those on the Remain side are perfect but it's hard to understand any reason to leave when, by all accounts, the EU isn't at fault for what it's being accused of... the UK government is but has managed to shift blame to the EU. It's hard to understand why people would willingly sell the future stability of the nation for years to come to "get one over" on Europe; the very definition of cutting your nose to spite your face. This is too big to get wrong but we can't even talk. Hence why I asked - because I truly don't understand the Leave reasoning - what truthful, factual benefit there is to leaving.
It's utter stupidity to give a mandate to uneducated, impressionable citizens to pave the way to an uncertain future. That's just poor and gives democracy a bad name and compounds on how depraved the human race is of intellect.
To be clear, I feel that people should vote after knowing what exactly they're voting for and how it will shape their future. It's sheer irresponsibility for a country to gamble for the sake of 'more control' while putting seeds of discord and resentment, dividing the people as much as the house of commons is divided.
It's time to gain a strong moral compass by looking beyond left and right and serve the peoples future.
Remainers will not accept the fact we as a nation voted to leave, I'm sick of the revisionists that keep banging on about we didn't vote to leave without a deal that was exactly what people voted for to leave.
Why do people think that the EU has done anything good for normal people, it is a cartel that is set up to further business interests, and their regulations actually stiffle business, look at the levels of unemployment in Europe, especially for the young. We need to leave so we can cut back on regulation, set our own immigration system and grow our exports to the rest of the world. Businesses should just get on with it.
Proroguing Parliament is not the coup d'etate that remainers are making it out to be and all the talk of doom are b*****ks.
Get a deal if you can but it's got to be a good deal, not the bad deal that May served up and the remainer and leaver politicos in Parliament wouldn't vote for.
Bring on halloween and a deal or no-deal we will be fine, and free from EU sevitude.
comment by GunaDave (U7710)
posted 50 minutes ago
Remainers will not accept the fact we as a nation voted to leave, I'm sick of the revisionists that keep banging on about we didn't vote to leave without a deal that was exactly what people voted for to leave.
Why do people think that the EU has done anything good for normal people, it is a cartel that is set up to further business interests, and their regulations actually stiffle business, look at the levels of unemployment in Europe, especially for the young. We need to leave so we can cut back on regulation, set our own immigration system and grow our exports to the rest of the world. Businesses should just get on with it.
Proroguing Parliament is not the coup d'etate that remainers are making it out to be and all the talk of doom are b*****ks.
Get a deal if you can but it's got to be a good deal, not the bad deal that May served up and the remainer and leaver politicos in Parliament wouldn't vote for.
Bring on halloween and a deal or no-deal we will be fine, and free from EU sevitude.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
tragic
comment by GunaDave (U7710)
posted 49 minutes ago
"Remainers will not accept the fact we as a nation voted to leave,"
MP: Can we leave the aggession out? I'm asking what your reasons are because I don't understand... from what I've read and analysed. Fine, more people who voted voted to leave at the time of the referendum. It's unclear now, after all that happened, that that's still the case but let's park that for the timebeing. Whether it makes a material change or now, I'd like to understand the rationale.
"Why do people think that the EU has done anything good for normal people,"
MP: the EU is not separate to the UK. We actively participate in everything that affects this country. Or at least we have the opportunity to. Because of a lack of information, the voting record for MEPs in the UK has generally been around 15% so we get the representation we vote for (or don't vote for as the case may be). To point the finger elsewhere IF something's gone wrong is disingenuous; it's self inflicted because we as citizens didn't participate in the process
"it is a cartel that is set up to further business interests, and their regulations actually stiffle business, look at the levels of unemployment in Europe, especially for the young."
MP: the number of businesses coming out saying they will suffer if we leave the EU begs to differ. The number of companies already making plans to leave the EU begs to differ. And in all this, where is the UK government's accountability? It's been domestic policy to make the sorts of cuts affecting industry, education and social care that did not come as a directive from the EU. So if you could cite specific examples of regulations stifling business and / or negatively impacting youth, that would be helpful.
"We need to leave so we can cut back on regulation, set our own immigration system"
MP: we CAN and DID set our own immigration policy. We ignored the recommendations from the EU in relation to limiting numbers and that, in part, is why we're in this space. Also... which regulations specifically?
"and grow our exports to the rest of the world. Businesses should just get on with it."
MP: I thought we could trade with other countries? I thought we already were? Did this change?
"Proroguing Parliament is not the coup d'etate that remainers are making it out to be and all the talk of doom are b*****ks."
It's taking power from elected representatives in order to make a unilateral decision. Not sure what else you'd call it... please expound.
"Get a deal if you can but it's got to be a good deal, not the bad deal that May served up and the remainer and leaver politicos in Parliament wouldn't vote for."
MP: fair enough but how is that possible if a) the timeline remains as it is and b) you block parliament (who represent all of us from being involved in that process? I fear you're contradicting your statement above. Please clarify.
"Bring on halloween and a deal or no-deal we will be fine, and free from EU sevitude"
MP: again, we are active participants in the EU process so how can we help write the rules (and if you care to read, you'll find we have a better deal and better concessions than a lot of EU member countries) yet at the same time be indentured in some form of economic and political slavery? Again, some clarity would help.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is generally my point. You get a lot of catchphrases and soundbites when engaging in this conversation. But when you ask for detail... nothing. I'm hoping, GunaDave, you can be one of the first to prove me wrong. But I doubt it.
Correction:
MP: the number of businesses coming out saying they will suffer if we leave the UK begs to differ. The number of companies already making plans to leave the UK begs to differ...
I find it astounding that those who have preached ‘we voted out, it’s democracy’ also say those who voted remain should get over it, as if it’s a football match. The 48% who voted remain still have a say in what happens to our country. Because that’s what happens in a democracy.
Shutting down parliament is the most undemocratic thing I’ve seen in my lifetime. It’s basically denying a day to elected officials who represent all of us, but also speak on behalf of the 48%. It’s saying you didn’t vote in the way we agree with so are not allowed a voice in a contentious debate.
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 58 minutes ago
I find it astounding that those who have preached ‘we voted out, it’s democracy’ also say those who voted remain should get over it, as if it’s a football match. The 48% who voted remain still have a say in what happens to our country. Because that’s what happens in a democracy.
Shutting down parliament is the most undemocratic thing I’ve seen in my lifetime. It’s basically denying a day to elected officials who represent all of us, but also speak on behalf of the 48%. It’s saying you didn’t vote in the way we agree with so are not allowed a voice in a contentious debate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can we have this If we do not like the govt next time and refuse to let them take power.,??
Divorce passed in Irela Nd by 52 per cent to 48 and it was respected.
Leave edged it....that is democracy.
Leave and if you hate it, work to rejoin.
Remain and Bercow ate blocking brexit by any means and bojo played them at their own game.
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 58 minutes ago
I find it astounding that those who have preached ‘we voted out, it’s democracy’ also say those who voted remain should get over it, as if it’s a football match. The 48% who voted remain still have a say in what happens to our country. Because that’s what happens in a democracy.
Shutting down parliament is the most undemocratic thing I’ve seen in my lifetime. It’s basically denying a day to elected officials who represent all of us, but also speak on behalf of the 48%. It’s saying you didn’t vote in the way we agree with so are not allowed a voice in a contentious debate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can we have this If we do not like the govt next time and refuse to let them take power.,??
Divorce passed in Irela Nd by 52 per cent to 48 and it was respected.
Leave edged it....that is democracy.
Leave and if you hate it, work to rejoin.
Remain and Bercow ate blocking brexit by any means and bojo played them at their own game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Firstly, in relation to this --> "Can we have this If we do not like the govt next time and refuse to let them take power.,??" ...what??!
Anyway, the point FieldsofAnfieldRd was primarily making is that just because the outcome was to leave, it doesn't mean the government should act as if the 48% of the voting public no longer exist. Those people still have an interest in a Brexit UK (or England by the time Scotland and Ireland are done) and they certainly aren't going anywhere (before you or anyone else utters that absolutely pointless statement about "if you don't like it, leave".,,). 4% is too close to completely discount the desire of those people to stay in Europe. So any decision made to leave should, in a lot of people's opinion, include a compromise to work closely or maintain some form of relationship with the EU. Yes you have people who absolutely want to stay a part of the EU but a large number of people categorically accept the result of the referendum but would like their position to be considered in any negotiation. 16+ million people is not an insignificant number.
"Leave and if you hate it, work to rejoin."
Any analysis given shows that leaving and coming back puts the UK in a worse position than it's in now. So why not take the time (as the government should have done before triggering A50) and be sure that it's the right call.
"Remain and Bercow ate blocking brexit by any means and bojo played them at their own game."
This is the thing... it's not a game. It's not trivial. But this country has become so enamoured with celebrity, soundbites, catchphrases, personality, underdogs that decisions of this weight are made on those bases and not on the merits of the arguments themselves.
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 day, 3 hours ago
comment by wearethefamousTHFC (U19211)
posted 2 hours, 44 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 15 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by Bales (U22081)
posted 15 hours, 35 minutes ago
The sooner we get out of the EU the better
---
What will actually be better, though?
We can all see the very obvious negatives, what positives are you looking forwards to?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm keen to learn this too. You hear a lot of very general statements like "the sooner we're out the better" but when you ask for specifics, you get (at best) the same statement regurgitated or (at worst) something generally xenophobic about getting foreigners out.
So Bracewells_wedge... what exactly will be better about the UK leaving the EU?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
either way, even if you give your genuine reasons you get shouted down and called a nazzi ... people no longer debate just shout
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're right that people are quick to escalate but I see way more vitriol, name calling and intolerance from those who support Brexit than those who want to remain. This is not to say that those on the Remain side are perfect but it's hard to understand any reason to leave when, by all accounts, the EU isn't at fault for what it's being accused of... the UK government is but has managed to shift blame to the EU. It's hard to understand why people would willingly sell the future stability of the nation for years to come to "get one over" on Europe; the very definition of cutting your nose to spite your face. This is too big to get wrong but we can't even talk. Hence why I asked - because I truly don't understand the Leave reasoning - what truthful, factual benefit there is to leaving.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't vote because I didn't live here, but I have noticed since being back that people who voted for Brexit are less likely to go vocal than remainers. I haven't seen one car sticker promoting Brexit, remain are everywhere. That tells me that people who voted Brexit are inclined to keep their beliefs to themselves in fear of reprisals.
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 4 hours, 8 minutes ago
I didn't vote because I didn't live here, but I have noticed since being back that people who voted for Brexit are less likely to go vocal than remainers. I haven't seen one car sticker promoting Brexit, remain are everywhere. That tells me that people who voted Brexit are inclined to keep their beliefs to themselves in fear of reprisals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well obviously those who voted Brexit aren't really going to "promote" it because result was in their favour. People who voted to remain are those initiating dialogue because they feel the result was wrong.
Having said that, who initiated the conversation isn't the point. It was who is more intolerant once the conversation does start. And believe me, there is no fear of reprisals at all!
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 hour, 30 minutes ago
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 4 hours, 8 minutes ago
I didn't vote because I didn't live here, but I have noticed since being back that people who voted for Brexit are less likely to go vocal than remainers. I haven't seen one car sticker promoting Brexit, remain are everywhere. That tells me that people who voted Brexit are inclined to keep their beliefs to themselves in fear of reprisals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well obviously those who voted Brexit aren't really going to "promote" it because result was in their favour. People who voted to remain are those initiating dialogue because they feel the result was wrong.
Having said that, who initiated the conversation isn't the point. It was who is more intolerant once the conversation does start. And believe me, there is no fear of reprisals at all!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My wider family hate brexit and it split us.
Work is remain, and as a leaver I kept quiet, and I can handle myself in debate or on the street, but not worth it in work..
Just sayin.
On politics thread here, leave get abuse daily.
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 hour, 30 minutes ago
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 4 hours, 8 minutes ago
I didn't vote because I didn't live here, but I have noticed since being back that people who voted for Brexit are less likely to go vocal than remainers. I haven't seen one car sticker promoting Brexit, remain are everywhere. That tells me that people who voted Brexit are inclined to keep their beliefs to themselves in fear of reprisals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well obviously those who voted Brexit aren't really going to "promote" it because result was in their favour. People who voted to remain are those initiating dialogue because they feel the result was wrong.
Having said that, who initiated the conversation isn't the point. It was who is more intolerant once the conversation does start. And believe me, there is no fear of reprisals at all!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My wider family hate brexit and it split us.
Work is remain, and as a leaver I kept quiet, and I can handle myself in debate or on the street, but not worth it in work..
Just sayin.
On politics thread here, leave get abuse daily.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So on the matter of why leave, do you agree with the points given or do you have something more specific that informs your position that might help me understand the firm belief that leaving is the best, option for this country?
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 day, 2 hours ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 58 minutes ago
I find it astounding that those who have preached ‘we voted out, it’s democracy’ also say those who voted remain should get over it, as if it’s a football match. The 48% who voted remain still have a say in what happens to our country. Because that’s what happens in a democracy.
Shutting down parliament is the most undemocratic thing I’ve seen in my lifetime. It’s basically denying a day to elected officials who represent all of us, but also speak on behalf of the 48%. It’s saying you didn’t vote in the way we agree with so are not allowed a voice in a contentious debate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can we have this If we do not like the govt next time and refuse to let them take power.,??
Divorce passed in Irela Nd by 52 per cent to 48 and it was respected.
Leave edged it....that is democracy.
Leave and if you hate it, work to rejoin.
Remain and Bercow ate blocking brexit by any means and bojo played them at their own game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Firstly, in relation to this --> "Can we have this If we do not like the govt next time and refuse to let them take power.,??" ...what??!
Anyway, the point FieldsofAnfieldRd was primarily making is that just because the outcome was to leave, it doesn't mean the government should act as if the 48% of the voting public no longer exist. Those people still have an interest in a Brexit UK (or England by the time Scotland and Ireland are done) and they certainly aren't going anywhere (before you or anyone else utters that absolutely pointless statement about "if you don't like it, leave".,,). 4% is too close to completely discount the desire of those people to stay in Europe. So any decision made to leave should, in a lot of people's opinion, include a compromise to work closely or maintain some form of relationship with the EU. Yes you have people who absolutely want to stay a part of the EU but a large number of people categorically accept the result of the referendum but would like their position to be considered in any negotiation. 16+ million people is not an insignificant number.
"Leave and if you hate it, work to rejoin."
Any analysis given shows that leaving and coming back puts the UK in a worse position than it's in now. So why not take the time (as the government should have done before triggering A50) and be sure that it's the right call.
"Remain and Bercow ate blocking brexit by any means and bojo played them at their own game."
This is the thing... it's not a game. It's not trivial. But this country has become so enamoured with celebrity, soundbites, catchphrases, personality, underdogs that decisions of this weight are made on those bases and not on the merits of the arguments themselves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still the e!dphant in the room!
how do keep us in the eu and respect democracy?
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
I find it astounding that those who have preached ‘we voted out, it’s democracy’ also say those who voted remain should get over it, as if it’s a football match. The 48% who voted remain still have a say in what happens to our country. Because that’s what happens in a democracy.
Shutting down parliament is the most undemocratic thing I’ve seen in my lifetime. It’s basically denying a day to elected officials who represent all of us, but also speak on behalf of the 48%. It’s saying you didn’t vote in the way we agree with so are not allowed a voice in a contentious debate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could have had a say by accepting the outcome and contributing to getting a better deal instead of spending three years trying to block everything and overturn the result. And now people are talking about the death of democracy when they refused to accept the biggest ever democratic vote
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
I find it astounding that those who have preached ‘we voted out, it’s democracy’ also say those who voted remain should get over it, as if it’s a football match. The 48% who voted remain still have a say in what happens to our country. Because that’s what happens in a democracy.
Shutting down parliament is the most undemocratic thing I’ve seen in my lifetime. It’s basically denying a day to elected officials who represent all of us, but also speak on behalf of the 48%. It’s saying you didn’t vote in the way we agree with so are not allowed a voice in a contentious debate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could have had a say by accepting the outcome and contributing to getting a better deal instead of spending three years trying to block everything and overturn the result. And now people are talking about the death of democracy when they refused to accept the biggest ever democratic vote
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What better deal are you talking about? Who's getting in the way of this?
Sign in if you want to comment
Parliament hijacked by Brexiteers!!
Page 2 of 3
posted on 29/8/19
comment by Always Angry (U22014)
posted 10 hours, 54 minutes ago
Its just Boris showing he be just as big a tw@t as Trump
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think, much like Blair with Bush, Boris WANTS to be like Drumpf. They look up to these US leaders and lead the rest of us into stupidity.
posted on 30/8/19
I don't think anything will be better about leaving the EU. I'm totally against it but accept it's possible I'm wrong. That's my point , why are we hearing nothing to convince us other than jingoistic soundbites. If there is a good case for it other than "regain our sovereignty"and other such meaningless nonsense let's hear it
posted on 30/8/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/8/19
If you give Nazzi reasons of course people will call you out for it.
posted on 30/8/19
We can all see the very obvious negatives, what positives are you looking forwards to?
======
350m to the NHS instead of Europe to begin with.
posted on 30/8/19
comment by Klopptimus Prime - Die Unerträglichen (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 26 minutes ago
We can all see the very obvious negatives, what positives are you looking forwards to?
======
350m to the NHS instead of Europe to begin with.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 30/8/19
comment by Klopptimus Prime - Die Unerträglichen (U1282)
posted 2 hours, 19 minutes ago
We can all see the very obvious negatives, what positives are you looking forwards to?
======
350m to the NHS instead of Europe to begin with.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wonder if this is sarcasm but on the off chance it isn't... this one has been debunked so, so many times. The NHS will not see increased investment. It will be sold off and we are likely to see an implementation of the American style healthcare "system"
What else? Or is that what you're excited about?
posted on 30/8/19
comment by Bracewells_wedge (U20835)
posted 4 hours, 32 minutes ago
I don't think anything will be better about leaving the EU. I'm totally against it but accept it's possible I'm wrong. That's my point , why are we hearing nothing to convince us other than jingoistic soundbites. If there is a good case for it other than "regain our sovereignty"and other such meaningless nonsense let's hear it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apologies... I asked the wrong person.
posted on 30/8/19
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 18 hours, 29 minutes ago
comment by Bales (U22081)
posted 15 hours, 35 minutes ago
The sooner we get out of the EU the better
---
What will actually be better, though?
We can all see the very obvious negatives, what positives are you looking forwards to?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm keen to learn this too. You hear a lot of very general statements like "the sooner we're out the better" but when you ask for specifics, you get (at best) the same statement regurgitated or (at worst) something generally xenophobic about getting foreigners out.
So Bracewells_wedge... what exactly will be better about the UK leaving the EU?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ThE ReVoLuTiOn Is Here, this one was for you...
posted on 30/8/19
comment by wearethefamousTHFC (U19211)
posted 2 hours, 44 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 15 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by Bales (U22081)
posted 15 hours, 35 minutes ago
The sooner we get out of the EU the better
---
What will actually be better, though?
We can all see the very obvious negatives, what positives are you looking forwards to?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm keen to learn this too. You hear a lot of very general statements like "the sooner we're out the better" but when you ask for specifics, you get (at best) the same statement regurgitated or (at worst) something generally xenophobic about getting foreigners out.
So Bracewells_wedge... what exactly will be better about the UK leaving the EU?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
either way, even if you give your genuine reasons you get shouted down and called a nazzi ... people no longer debate just shout
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're right that people are quick to escalate but I see way more vitriol, name calling and intolerance from those who support Brexit than those who want to remain. This is not to say that those on the Remain side are perfect but it's hard to understand any reason to leave when, by all accounts, the EU isn't at fault for what it's being accused of... the UK government is but has managed to shift blame to the EU. It's hard to understand why people would willingly sell the future stability of the nation for years to come to "get one over" on Europe; the very definition of cutting your nose to spite your face. This is too big to get wrong but we can't even talk. Hence why I asked - because I truly don't understand the Leave reasoning - what truthful, factual benefit there is to leaving.
posted on 30/8/19
It's utter stupidity to give a mandate to uneducated, impressionable citizens to pave the way to an uncertain future. That's just poor and gives democracy a bad name and compounds on how depraved the human race is of intellect.
To be clear, I feel that people should vote after knowing what exactly they're voting for and how it will shape their future. It's sheer irresponsibility for a country to gamble for the sake of 'more control' while putting seeds of discord and resentment, dividing the people as much as the house of commons is divided.
It's time to gain a strong moral compass by looking beyond left and right and serve the peoples future.
posted on 30/8/19
Remainers will not accept the fact we as a nation voted to leave, I'm sick of the revisionists that keep banging on about we didn't vote to leave without a deal that was exactly what people voted for to leave.
Why do people think that the EU has done anything good for normal people, it is a cartel that is set up to further business interests, and their regulations actually stiffle business, look at the levels of unemployment in Europe, especially for the young. We need to leave so we can cut back on regulation, set our own immigration system and grow our exports to the rest of the world. Businesses should just get on with it.
Proroguing Parliament is not the coup d'etate that remainers are making it out to be and all the talk of doom are b*****ks.
Get a deal if you can but it's got to be a good deal, not the bad deal that May served up and the remainer and leaver politicos in Parliament wouldn't vote for.
Bring on halloween and a deal or no-deal we will be fine, and free from EU sevitude.
posted on 30/8/19
comment by GunaDave (U7710)
posted 50 minutes ago
Remainers will not accept the fact we as a nation voted to leave, I'm sick of the revisionists that keep banging on about we didn't vote to leave without a deal that was exactly what people voted for to leave.
Why do people think that the EU has done anything good for normal people, it is a cartel that is set up to further business interests, and their regulations actually stiffle business, look at the levels of unemployment in Europe, especially for the young. We need to leave so we can cut back on regulation, set our own immigration system and grow our exports to the rest of the world. Businesses should just get on with it.
Proroguing Parliament is not the coup d'etate that remainers are making it out to be and all the talk of doom are b*****ks.
Get a deal if you can but it's got to be a good deal, not the bad deal that May served up and the remainer and leaver politicos in Parliament wouldn't vote for.
Bring on halloween and a deal or no-deal we will be fine, and free from EU sevitude.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
tragic
posted on 30/8/19
comment by GunaDave (U7710)
posted 49 minutes ago
"Remainers will not accept the fact we as a nation voted to leave,"
MP: Can we leave the aggession out? I'm asking what your reasons are because I don't understand... from what I've read and analysed. Fine, more people who voted voted to leave at the time of the referendum. It's unclear now, after all that happened, that that's still the case but let's park that for the timebeing. Whether it makes a material change or now, I'd like to understand the rationale.
"Why do people think that the EU has done anything good for normal people,"
MP: the EU is not separate to the UK. We actively participate in everything that affects this country. Or at least we have the opportunity to. Because of a lack of information, the voting record for MEPs in the UK has generally been around 15% so we get the representation we vote for (or don't vote for as the case may be). To point the finger elsewhere IF something's gone wrong is disingenuous; it's self inflicted because we as citizens didn't participate in the process
"it is a cartel that is set up to further business interests, and their regulations actually stiffle business, look at the levels of unemployment in Europe, especially for the young."
MP: the number of businesses coming out saying they will suffer if we leave the EU begs to differ. The number of companies already making plans to leave the EU begs to differ. And in all this, where is the UK government's accountability? It's been domestic policy to make the sorts of cuts affecting industry, education and social care that did not come as a directive from the EU. So if you could cite specific examples of regulations stifling business and / or negatively impacting youth, that would be helpful.
"We need to leave so we can cut back on regulation, set our own immigration system"
MP: we CAN and DID set our own immigration policy. We ignored the recommendations from the EU in relation to limiting numbers and that, in part, is why we're in this space. Also... which regulations specifically?
"and grow our exports to the rest of the world. Businesses should just get on with it."
MP: I thought we could trade with other countries? I thought we already were? Did this change?
"Proroguing Parliament is not the coup d'etate that remainers are making it out to be and all the talk of doom are b*****ks."
It's taking power from elected representatives in order to make a unilateral decision. Not sure what else you'd call it... please expound.
"Get a deal if you can but it's got to be a good deal, not the bad deal that May served up and the remainer and leaver politicos in Parliament wouldn't vote for."
MP: fair enough but how is that possible if a) the timeline remains as it is and b) you block parliament (who represent all of us from being involved in that process? I fear you're contradicting your statement above. Please clarify.
"Bring on halloween and a deal or no-deal we will be fine, and free from EU sevitude"
MP: again, we are active participants in the EU process so how can we help write the rules (and if you care to read, you'll find we have a better deal and better concessions than a lot of EU member countries) yet at the same time be indentured in some form of economic and political slavery? Again, some clarity would help.
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This is generally my point. You get a lot of catchphrases and soundbites when engaging in this conversation. But when you ask for detail... nothing. I'm hoping, GunaDave, you can be one of the first to prove me wrong. But I doubt it.
posted on 30/8/19
Correction:
MP: the number of businesses coming out saying they will suffer if we leave the UK begs to differ. The number of companies already making plans to leave the UK begs to differ...
posted on 30/8/19
I find it astounding that those who have preached ‘we voted out, it’s democracy’ also say those who voted remain should get over it, as if it’s a football match. The 48% who voted remain still have a say in what happens to our country. Because that’s what happens in a democracy.
Shutting down parliament is the most undemocratic thing I’ve seen in my lifetime. It’s basically denying a day to elected officials who represent all of us, but also speak on behalf of the 48%. It’s saying you didn’t vote in the way we agree with so are not allowed a voice in a contentious debate.
posted on 30/8/19
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 58 minutes ago
I find it astounding that those who have preached ‘we voted out, it’s democracy’ also say those who voted remain should get over it, as if it’s a football match. The 48% who voted remain still have a say in what happens to our country. Because that’s what happens in a democracy.
Shutting down parliament is the most undemocratic thing I’ve seen in my lifetime. It’s basically denying a day to elected officials who represent all of us, but also speak on behalf of the 48%. It’s saying you didn’t vote in the way we agree with so are not allowed a voice in a contentious debate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can we have this If we do not like the govt next time and refuse to let them take power.,??
Divorce passed in Irela Nd by 52 per cent to 48 and it was respected.
Leave edged it....that is democracy.
Leave and if you hate it, work to rejoin.
Remain and Bercow ate blocking brexit by any means and bojo played them at their own game.
posted on 30/8/19
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 58 minutes ago
I find it astounding that those who have preached ‘we voted out, it’s democracy’ also say those who voted remain should get over it, as if it’s a football match. The 48% who voted remain still have a say in what happens to our country. Because that’s what happens in a democracy.
Shutting down parliament is the most undemocratic thing I’ve seen in my lifetime. It’s basically denying a day to elected officials who represent all of us, but also speak on behalf of the 48%. It’s saying you didn’t vote in the way we agree with so are not allowed a voice in a contentious debate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can we have this If we do not like the govt next time and refuse to let them take power.,??
Divorce passed in Irela Nd by 52 per cent to 48 and it was respected.
Leave edged it....that is democracy.
Leave and if you hate it, work to rejoin.
Remain and Bercow ate blocking brexit by any means and bojo played them at their own game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Firstly, in relation to this --> "Can we have this If we do not like the govt next time and refuse to let them take power.,??" ...what??!
Anyway, the point FieldsofAnfieldRd was primarily making is that just because the outcome was to leave, it doesn't mean the government should act as if the 48% of the voting public no longer exist. Those people still have an interest in a Brexit UK (or England by the time Scotland and Ireland are done) and they certainly aren't going anywhere (before you or anyone else utters that absolutely pointless statement about "if you don't like it, leave".,,). 4% is too close to completely discount the desire of those people to stay in Europe. So any decision made to leave should, in a lot of people's opinion, include a compromise to work closely or maintain some form of relationship with the EU. Yes you have people who absolutely want to stay a part of the EU but a large number of people categorically accept the result of the referendum but would like their position to be considered in any negotiation. 16+ million people is not an insignificant number.
"Leave and if you hate it, work to rejoin."
Any analysis given shows that leaving and coming back puts the UK in a worse position than it's in now. So why not take the time (as the government should have done before triggering A50) and be sure that it's the right call.
"Remain and Bercow ate blocking brexit by any means and bojo played them at their own game."
This is the thing... it's not a game. It's not trivial. But this country has become so enamoured with celebrity, soundbites, catchphrases, personality, underdogs that decisions of this weight are made on those bases and not on the merits of the arguments themselves.
posted on 31/8/19
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 day, 3 hours ago
comment by wearethefamousTHFC (U19211)
posted 2 hours, 44 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 15 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by Bales (U22081)
posted 15 hours, 35 minutes ago
The sooner we get out of the EU the better
---
What will actually be better, though?
We can all see the very obvious negatives, what positives are you looking forwards to?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm keen to learn this too. You hear a lot of very general statements like "the sooner we're out the better" but when you ask for specifics, you get (at best) the same statement regurgitated or (at worst) something generally xenophobic about getting foreigners out.
So Bracewells_wedge... what exactly will be better about the UK leaving the EU?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
either way, even if you give your genuine reasons you get shouted down and called a nazzi ... people no longer debate just shout
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're right that people are quick to escalate but I see way more vitriol, name calling and intolerance from those who support Brexit than those who want to remain. This is not to say that those on the Remain side are perfect but it's hard to understand any reason to leave when, by all accounts, the EU isn't at fault for what it's being accused of... the UK government is but has managed to shift blame to the EU. It's hard to understand why people would willingly sell the future stability of the nation for years to come to "get one over" on Europe; the very definition of cutting your nose to spite your face. This is too big to get wrong but we can't even talk. Hence why I asked - because I truly don't understand the Leave reasoning - what truthful, factual benefit there is to leaving.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't vote because I didn't live here, but I have noticed since being back that people who voted for Brexit are less likely to go vocal than remainers. I haven't seen one car sticker promoting Brexit, remain are everywhere. That tells me that people who voted Brexit are inclined to keep their beliefs to themselves in fear of reprisals.
posted on 31/8/19
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 4 hours, 8 minutes ago
I didn't vote because I didn't live here, but I have noticed since being back that people who voted for Brexit are less likely to go vocal than remainers. I haven't seen one car sticker promoting Brexit, remain are everywhere. That tells me that people who voted Brexit are inclined to keep their beliefs to themselves in fear of reprisals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well obviously those who voted Brexit aren't really going to "promote" it because result was in their favour. People who voted to remain are those initiating dialogue because they feel the result was wrong.
Having said that, who initiated the conversation isn't the point. It was who is more intolerant once the conversation does start. And believe me, there is no fear of reprisals at all!
posted on 31/8/19
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 hour, 30 minutes ago
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 4 hours, 8 minutes ago
I didn't vote because I didn't live here, but I have noticed since being back that people who voted for Brexit are less likely to go vocal than remainers. I haven't seen one car sticker promoting Brexit, remain are everywhere. That tells me that people who voted Brexit are inclined to keep their beliefs to themselves in fear of reprisals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well obviously those who voted Brexit aren't really going to "promote" it because result was in their favour. People who voted to remain are those initiating dialogue because they feel the result was wrong.
Having said that, who initiated the conversation isn't the point. It was who is more intolerant once the conversation does start. And believe me, there is no fear of reprisals at all!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My wider family hate brexit and it split us.
Work is remain, and as a leaver I kept quiet, and I can handle myself in debate or on the street, but not worth it in work..
Just sayin.
On politics thread here, leave get abuse daily.
posted on 31/8/19
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 hour, 30 minutes ago
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 4 hours, 8 minutes ago
I didn't vote because I didn't live here, but I have noticed since being back that people who voted for Brexit are less likely to go vocal than remainers. I haven't seen one car sticker promoting Brexit, remain are everywhere. That tells me that people who voted Brexit are inclined to keep their beliefs to themselves in fear of reprisals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well obviously those who voted Brexit aren't really going to "promote" it because result was in their favour. People who voted to remain are those initiating dialogue because they feel the result was wrong.
Having said that, who initiated the conversation isn't the point. It was who is more intolerant once the conversation does start. And believe me, there is no fear of reprisals at all!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My wider family hate brexit and it split us.
Work is remain, and as a leaver I kept quiet, and I can handle myself in debate or on the street, but not worth it in work..
Just sayin.
On politics thread here, leave get abuse daily.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So on the matter of why leave, do you agree with the points given or do you have something more specific that informs your position that might help me understand the firm belief that leaving is the best, option for this country?
posted on 31/8/19
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 day, 2 hours ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 58 minutes ago
I find it astounding that those who have preached ‘we voted out, it’s democracy’ also say those who voted remain should get over it, as if it’s a football match. The 48% who voted remain still have a say in what happens to our country. Because that’s what happens in a democracy.
Shutting down parliament is the most undemocratic thing I’ve seen in my lifetime. It’s basically denying a day to elected officials who represent all of us, but also speak on behalf of the 48%. It’s saying you didn’t vote in the way we agree with so are not allowed a voice in a contentious debate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can we have this If we do not like the govt next time and refuse to let them take power.,??
Divorce passed in Irela Nd by 52 per cent to 48 and it was respected.
Leave edged it....that is democracy.
Leave and if you hate it, work to rejoin.
Remain and Bercow ate blocking brexit by any means and bojo played them at their own game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Firstly, in relation to this --> "Can we have this If we do not like the govt next time and refuse to let them take power.,??" ...what??!
Anyway, the point FieldsofAnfieldRd was primarily making is that just because the outcome was to leave, it doesn't mean the government should act as if the 48% of the voting public no longer exist. Those people still have an interest in a Brexit UK (or England by the time Scotland and Ireland are done) and they certainly aren't going anywhere (before you or anyone else utters that absolutely pointless statement about "if you don't like it, leave".,,). 4% is too close to completely discount the desire of those people to stay in Europe. So any decision made to leave should, in a lot of people's opinion, include a compromise to work closely or maintain some form of relationship with the EU. Yes you have people who absolutely want to stay a part of the EU but a large number of people categorically accept the result of the referendum but would like their position to be considered in any negotiation. 16+ million people is not an insignificant number.
"Leave and if you hate it, work to rejoin."
Any analysis given shows that leaving and coming back puts the UK in a worse position than it's in now. So why not take the time (as the government should have done before triggering A50) and be sure that it's the right call.
"Remain and Bercow ate blocking brexit by any means and bojo played them at their own game."
This is the thing... it's not a game. It's not trivial. But this country has become so enamoured with celebrity, soundbites, catchphrases, personality, underdogs that decisions of this weight are made on those bases and not on the merits of the arguments themselves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still the e!dphant in the room!
how do keep us in the eu and respect democracy?
posted on 1/9/19
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
I find it astounding that those who have preached ‘we voted out, it’s democracy’ also say those who voted remain should get over it, as if it’s a football match. The 48% who voted remain still have a say in what happens to our country. Because that’s what happens in a democracy.
Shutting down parliament is the most undemocratic thing I’ve seen in my lifetime. It’s basically denying a day to elected officials who represent all of us, but also speak on behalf of the 48%. It’s saying you didn’t vote in the way we agree with so are not allowed a voice in a contentious debate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could have had a say by accepting the outcome and contributing to getting a better deal instead of spending three years trying to block everything and overturn the result. And now people are talking about the death of democracy when they refused to accept the biggest ever democratic vote
posted on 1/9/19
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 1 day, 19 hours ago
I find it astounding that those who have preached ‘we voted out, it’s democracy’ also say those who voted remain should get over it, as if it’s a football match. The 48% who voted remain still have a say in what happens to our country. Because that’s what happens in a democracy.
Shutting down parliament is the most undemocratic thing I’ve seen in my lifetime. It’s basically denying a day to elected officials who represent all of us, but also speak on behalf of the 48%. It’s saying you didn’t vote in the way we agree with so are not allowed a voice in a contentious debate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could have had a say by accepting the outcome and contributing to getting a better deal instead of spending three years trying to block everything and overturn the result. And now people are talking about the death of democracy when they refused to accept the biggest ever democratic vote
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What better deal are you talking about? Who's getting in the way of this?
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