Not sure if Keogh was clumsy or the forward was a bit too clever for him (or both)?

A bit clumsy but most of the time he would have got away with it. The Cardiff player chose to go down rather than being forced down by Keogh. Had he stayed on his feet then probably the ref wouldn’t have given it. The ref was very poor, not just missing the obvious foul on Waghorn but letting a lot of niggly stuff by them go unpunished while apparently having zero tolerance for anything similar from our lads.

Cardiff were poor and we didn't beat them, we may have edged it on points but didnt do enough to win the game

Big concern going forward is the lack of creativity and the blatantly obvious gap in pre season of our squad was central midfield and wide right and is still blatantly obvious

I cannot agree with the article that says once Bogle is fit we'll be a good side, were a long way off that. IMO were as bad a side since the NC days

I'm willing to give it a bit longer before I accept an also-ran berth this season.
Beilik in midfield is a big plus and offers something we haven't had for some time. Holmes is a handful and indeed Bogle will make a difference especially as it will allow Lowe to switch sides. Wisdom and Forsyth played 45 for the U23 the other day so we aren't far away from getting cover on both sides which will allow us to keep more of balance should we get another injury.
Clarke and Keogh are a good combo. Clarke maybe slow but he's solid, you can't have everything. He's not frightened of pushing forward either.
It's the forward areas that concern me. I like Waghorn's workrate and determination on the right but it's the other two forward positions that are up for grabs.
Patterson, Zoon, Marriott, Martin, Lawrence, Bennett plus a couple of U23's. No one has staked a claim and made it theirs.
Marriott and Martin seems logical to me but maybe i'm being sentimental.
Under no circumstances should Cocu lose his job.
He'll come good if not this then next year.

I'm not saying he should but its a little alarming when your, arguably, most creative player is a 19 year old right back
I like Holmes and Beilik from a creative view and Lawrence for all his haters has to be there as we become almost totally toothless without him

I'm not sure how big the first team squad is but there is 3 maybe 4 I wouldn't want lose, thats to low a number

I'll be surprised if we get outside the bottom 10 all season

Cardiff had those two huge centre backs plus a few more Warnock type players yet we kept playing the ball in the air. We had the beating of them on the deck as we showed several times so why play the lofted ball upfield?

comment by I'm not Spartacus, hope springs eternal (U4603)
posted 31 minutes ago
Cardiff had those two huge centre backs plus a few more Warnock type players yet we kept playing the ball in the air. We had the beating of them on the deck as we showed several times so why play the lofted ball upfield?
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I noticed that too. I bet Brian Clough was turning in his grave?

Ten-men day was eight years ago today. What a day that was.

Nostalgia. "Ain't what is used to be..........."

"it" - got really dark here!

comment by Rameses, Kom op jij Rams (U7190)
posted 17 hours, 52 minutes ago
I'm willing to give it a bit longer before I accept an also-ran berth this season.
Beilik in midfield is a big plus and offers something we haven't had for some time. Holmes is a handful and indeed Bogle will make a difference especially as it will allow Lowe to switch sides. Wisdom and Forsyth played 45 for the U23 the other day so we aren't far away from getting cover on both sides which will allow us to keep more of balance should we get another injury.
Clarke and Keogh are a good combo. Clarke maybe slow but he's solid, you can't have everything. He's not frightened of pushing forward either.
It's the forward areas that concern me. I like Waghorn's workrate and determination on the right but it's the other two forward positions that are up for grabs.
Patterson, Zoon, Marriott, Martin, Lawrence, Bennett plus a couple of U23's. No one has staked a claim and made it theirs.
Marriott and Martin seems logical to me but maybe i'm being sentimental.
Under no circumstances should Cocu lose his job.
He'll come good if not this then next year.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It would be stupid and Red-dogish in the extreme to even think of getting rid of Cocu. at this juncture. With that philosophy, Brian Clough would not have stayed long enough as Derby Manager to do what he did. His start was pretty poor too as I remember. I assume MM knows this.

Clough's first season we finished lower in the table than the previous year with Tim Ward. We did however score far more goals and looked a better footballing side. The following season acquiring Mackay to organise the defence and Carlin in midfield we walked away with the title.

When Brian Clough became manager there wasn't the huge expectation as we have now. Derby were a mid Div 2 side and we were happy with that. When Tim Ward was sacked we had protests against the board.

BC lit the club up from its long slumber and that first season we knew something was stirring in the bowels of Derby County. We had a good cup run and narrowly got beaten by dirty Leeds. I remember Ritchie Barker having a good game against them.

As Spart has said, we were wonderful in the next season after Carlin came, but I think the big improvement was when Alan Durban got a regular place in the team. That promotion season was my favourite ever. I was young and single, so I went to nearly every away match and used to stay the night in London games, good fun in Soho.

Mackay was a brilliant signing, I stood at the Normanton end and you could hear Dave telling Roy Mac what to do. After he trained him he helped John Robson.

Wonderful days which will never be repeated cuz there's only one Brian Clough and the idiot board forced him out. If only he had stayed.............................

Spot on VC. I remember being on the pop-side when we played Man City. Just in front of me (maybe 3 yards away) Dave Mackay tackled Mike Summerbee very hard but fair and he never did very much after that (Summerbee that is). Dave Mackay was a great player who didn't even know where Derby was located when he joined us. At the Wembley replay final. we queued alongside Dave and he was great entertainment for half an hour. Other great players I remember most clearly were Kevin and O'Hare - also Charlie George. Alan Hinton and of course Roy Mac and Todd, Both far better players than managers. David Nish was pretty. smooth too. Also memorable was Paul McGrath. His anticipation was remarkable and allowed his damaged body to be just in the right position every time. Stimac, Baiano and Stefano Eranio were great too. A sprinkling of some of those would do us a power of good right now. I feel though that PC can do us a lot of good too.

If you replace Mount and Wilson with Dowell and Patterson then you'd be daft to expect the same results, we only scraped in to the play offs with the loanees.

Id like to ask PC off the record what his plans are in the next few transfer windows as our younger players are currently not good enough or to young

He's been dealt a duff hand with the squad he inherited so Id also like to know if he actually thought this squad was good enough and the players he would have realistically liked to have bought in straight away, also off the record and not the cliche answers when they're interviewed for TV or radio

Bush! We simply have to give him time. He has a disjointed squad - mainly due to the sudden departure of Lampard. He has ample ability, proven at Eindhoven. He will do it here too but it will take time as it did in BC's day. But now, with transfer windows - it takes even longer than in Brian Clough's day. Try to have a little patience. It will pay in the end rather than our club be in a permanent state of flux.

There is a limit to the time we can give a failing manager. Where would we have ended up had we persevered with Pearson? I remember a contributor on here calling me ridiculous for suggesting that Pearson would be sacked if results didn't improve quickly. Two weeks later it happened. Just wish I could remember who it was.

I am not calling for Cocu to be sacked by the way. Just that there will be a time when this becomes a possibility without some improvement. As yet I don't see any indication that he has stamped his style and authority on the team. They just seem to turn up and play.

Last season is getting over blown.
It was different but the same. It was more enjoyable than Rowett but we still came sixth and if it weren't for the miracle at Elland Road we may still have Frank and not looking nostalgically backward at some kind of miracle season.
We had some shocking results against bottom of the table sides and some stuffings too. We were very inconsistent and even Mount looked a bit ropy before he got injured.
We are looking now at the three loanees tearing up the PL and assuming they are irreplaceable and that we have no hope of success now.
The table doesn't lie, fair enough, but its not true to say we have been rubbish.
I agree pre-season and injuries are a factor but we have only looked poor in the two games we lost. In the 4 drawn games the opposition would not moan if they had lost them. A couple of converted pennos and the rub of the green could well have seen us on 15 points and that's playing with a new manager who is getting to know his players as well overcoming fitness and injury worries.
When we click, and we will, it will be a different story.
Leeds are a good side they press and we could play into their hands if we give away the ball as much as we did v Cardiff, but Barnsley had 17 shots against them and Leeds only went ahead in the 84th minute so they can be got at.
Its not a forgone conclusion in West Yorkshire but I'd take another draw.

Rameses

Spart, that was probably me who made the comment when Pearson was manager. I’ll admit that sacking him sooner rather than later was a wise move, he should perhaps have been sacked before he started. He is a bit of a special case though or, more accurately, a special nutcase judging from what we have subsequently heard about his short time in charge. In general though, unless something serious has gone on behind the scenes, I still think it is ridiculous to consider sacking a manager after only a handful of games. Norwich did nothing in their first season under Farke for example.

You have to consider the circumstances. If a manager goes into Manchester City or a Barcelona with players of the highest quality at his disposal then maybe you can expect him to hit the ground running. Cocu’s remit is not just to replicate or improve on Lampard’s achievement, and to do so without three of last season’s key players, but also to start bringing through the younger players. The last to do that successfully was Nigel Clough, and he could do so because expectations of the first team were low and he was very unlikely to get sacked. If managers are judged in the very short term then they are certainly going to pay no attention to developing younger talent because they won’t be around to reap the benefit of it. Unless something horrendous happens then at the end of each season the owner should assess how things have gone on and off the field and decide if the overall direction of the club is as required. In the case of Clough senior and Farke there was enough evidence of progress to be optimistic. Had they been judged simply on results in their first seasons then they might not have had a second in charge.

Maybe we should be really wise and not sack Cocu until either Klopp or Guardiola are looking to upgrade?

Maybe we should be really wise and not sack Cocu.