"The criteria for choosing these players has always been interesting and debatable and I always had a problem with the opinion that van Dijk was the obvious choice. Like since when is 50 goals, 20 assists and CL top scorer considered a small achievement. Just because he is Messi must never down grade the achievement. Sterling or Mane must never win it just because Ronaldo or Messi have dropped standards.They must win it because they have surpassed the standards. We have all of a sudden created some ridiculous low bar so that other players can win footballs top awards and I find it ridiculous."
If any other player in world football had had the season Messi just had (bar Ronaldo) they would have been by far and away the favourite for the award.
But because it's one of the two it's just expected of them and taken for granted.
50 goals and 20 assists is obviously brilliant but you can't complain about the way Ballon D'or is awarded and then completely lean towards offensive players.
Van Dijk for Liverpool last year got 6 goals and 4 assists as a CB but more importantly they had won the CL with him leading the back line and they'd lost I think just a single game all season in the league? That's largely due to his influence on that side.
Regarding the absence of Man City players I can understand due to the fact that City's game plan is more team based than anything else we have seen in football.The output of each player from the goal keeper to the attacker is almost equal and hence goals and contributions are spread out.
The likes of Robertson probably lost out in the popularity votes where even a higher profile player like van Dijk also fared badly. His performances for Scotland probably didn't help
I had some people have a go at Hazard but he was kinda the best footballer at the world cup last year and his number in the PL were good last season. Mbappe vs Mane or Salah, well Mbappe is 20 years old and has bigger profile. Its not so hard to understand.
As for Ramos, he is Champions League Royalty
"Like since when is 50 goals, 20 assists and CL top scorer considered a small achievement"
It isn't but how do you judge a defender against that? What do they have to do to rival that as a defender?
It's looking like VVD will win the Balon D'or considering it's the media who vote for it and he was top choice for the FIFA award amongst the media. Although considering Messi's outstanding record again for the past season it obviously wouldn't be surprising if Messi won it.
"But because it's one of the two it's just expected of them and taken for granted."
I don't think they have been taken for granted, one won the FIFA award and the other came third. In fact apart from once, I believe one of the two have won it for around a decade.
comment by Boss By Hugo (U18550)
posted 13 seconds ago
50 goals and 20 assists is obviously brilliant but you can't complain about the way Ballon D'or is awarded and then completely lean towards offensive players.
Van Dijk for Liverpool last year got 6 goals and 4 assists as a CB but more importantly they had won the CL with him leading the back line and they'd lost I think just a single game all season in the league? That's largely due to his influence on that side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair argument, but what is the harder achievement Boss? I will let you answer that but you know an attacker must always have an edge as what they do is harder. The award must not be about how a player has transformed a team.
Agree with the Modric sentiments. He was never the best player in the world last year. Was he even that good in the world cup or in Madrid CL win? A certain Ronaldo no longer playing for Madrid and look how that has turned out for them with Modric still about.
Got no issue with Messi winning it again. He was outstanding like every year.
VVD comes into because pre VVD we were Arsenal but now we are one of the best in the world. Hard to measure that in stats.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 56 seconds ago
"But because it's one of the two it's just expected of them and taken for granted."
I don't think they have been taken for granted, one won the FIFA award and the other came third. In fact apart from once, I believe one of the two have won it for around a decade.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason them 2 keep winning it is because none of the other players have come close despite the media clamour to pretend they have.Ronaldo is 34, Messi 32, much slower and less dynamic players against their 20-2-6 year old counter parts but still outscore them.
yet you will see some put forward the argument that they are less deserving.
comment by (kash) I'm the Mané - 6 Times Baby (U1108)
posted 43 seconds ago
Agree with the Modric sentiments. He was never the best player in the world last year. Was he even that good in the world cup or in Madrid CL win? A certain Ronaldo no longer playing for Madrid and look how that has turned out for them with Modric still about.
Got no issue with Messi winning it again. He was outstanding like every year.
VVD comes into because pre VVD we were Arsenal but now we are one of the best in the world. Hard to measure that in stats.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough.I also agree with Boss's sentiments about van Dijk's achievements.I just hate these token nominations of anything but Messi or Ronaldo.
comment by gunnersaurus rex (U21846)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 56 seconds ago
"But because it's one of the two it's just expected of them and taken for granted."
I don't think they have been taken for granted, one won the FIFA award and the other came third. In fact apart from once, I believe one of the two have won it for around a decade.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason them 2 keep winning it is because none of the other players have come close despite the media clamour to pretend they have.Ronaldo is 34, Messi 32, much slower and less dynamic players against their 20-2-6 year old counter parts but still outscore them.
yet you will see some put forward the argument that they are less deserving.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly but this year VVD came close, so split them. Ronaldo is 35 now so I'd say it will be his last season in the top three.
comment by gunnersaurus rex (U21846)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Boss By Hugo (U18550)
posted 13 seconds ago
50 goals and 20 assists is obviously brilliant but you can't complain about the way Ballon D'or is awarded and then completely lean towards offensive players.
Van Dijk for Liverpool last year got 6 goals and 4 assists as a CB but more importantly they had won the CL with him leading the back line and they'd lost I think just a single game all season in the league? That's largely due to his influence on that side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair argument, but what is the harder achievement Boss? I will let you answer that but you know an attacker must always have an edge as what they do is harder. The award must not be about how a player has transformed a team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How a player transforms a team is actually a massive part of that and the trophies they win as a result of the influence they bring.
I'm a forward so obviously will be biased in saying that scoring is harder than defending. Actually that's just a fact. But you also have to recognise defenders.
Van Dijk has had close to a perfect season as you can for a CB.
Modric winning the Ballon D'or was the wrong decision. Croatia weren't even amazing and struggled to get through each round.
Also who have the media clamoured to pretend had come close to Ronaldo/Messi over the last decade? I thought it was widely accepted that both were the top two the past decade?
I saw an interesting idea on twitter that the votes for best player of the year should be done at 4 points over the season with regular intervals inbetween. Doing it this way should eliminate ‘recency bias’ and means players who start well and tail off towards end of season or don’t happen to be in a team with all eyes on them, fighting for trophies, may have a more appropriate share of cotes
Awards given on a yearly basis is stupid in a sport which has seasons spanning over 2 years
Kind of agree about Modric, but who would you have picked above Cannavaro in 2006? It was a year where most of the star names underperformed. Ronaldinho for example had a poor world cup. Zidane didn't do much in the CL etc.
The majority of Messi his 50 goals a year is always against Eibar, Granada, Celta, Alaves, Leganes, Valladolid, Getafe, Levante, Espanyol, Osasuna and Mallorca. Those teams are championship level teams ffs.
Ronaldo went to Serie A and his goals 50 goals a season has drought.
Ronaldo is 34 years old, unless you thought he’d score 50 a season till the day he retired i’m not sure why you’d be surprised his goalscoring rate is decreasing. Getafe finished 5th in La Liga last season. More goals were scored in PL last season than La Liga. Bottom 10 La Liga teams got more cumulative points than bottom 10 PL teams last season. Weak, yer da points my man
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 43 minutes ago
"Like since when is 50 goals, 20 assists and CL top scorer considered a small achievement"
It isn't but how do you judge a defender against that? What do they have to do to rival that as a defender?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a very difficult one to judge, but like I said before, my reasoning for choosing Messi over VVD doesn't just stem from his outstanding numbers, it's his influence every week on games.
More often than not Messi was the best player on the pitch last season. Whilst VVD was a vital cog, he wasn't always the standout player at Liverpool. Sometimes it was Allison, sometimes Trent, sometimes Robertson, sometimes Mane or Salah.
Messi had the most man of the match performances in Europe and La Liga I believe, Van Dijk wasn't even close.
I know your argument is that he's a defender and it's harder but the cold facts remain that Messi was usually the best player on the pitch, VVD wasn't.
They both won titles, just because Barcelona win more often shouldn't take away from the achievement of it.
I watch that league week in week out because I am interested in tactics as a youth coach myself.
Majority of the cb's in their league are midgets.
Most of the teams lack pace on the wings and upfront. Getafe would be relegated in the PL.
They have technicall players but if we played those teams we would trash most of those teams.
Every team want to play the same way there.
comment by The Mane Man ( life at this age is rubbish with no money #needajob) (U19731)
posted 7 minutes ago
The majority of Messi his 50 goals a year is always against Eibar, Granada, Celta, Alaves, Leganes, Valladolid, Getafe, Levante, Espanyol, Osasuna and Mallorca. Those teams are championship level teams ffs.
Ronaldo went to Serie A and his goals 50 goals a season has drought.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lol Messi's goals by opposition:
1 Sevilla FC 36
2 Atlético de Madrid 29
3 Valencia CF 28
4 Real Madrid CF 26
5 Real Club Deportivo Espanyol 25
6 Athletic de Bilbao 24
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 43 minutes ago
"Like since when is 50 goals, 20 assists and CL top scorer considered a small achievement"
It isn't but how do you judge a defender against that? What do they have to do to rival that as a defender?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a very difficult one to judge, but like I said before, my reasoning for choosing Messi over VVD doesn't just stem from his outstanding numbers, it's his influence every week on games.
More often than not Messi was the best player on the pitch last season. Whilst VVD was a vital cog, he wasn't always the standout player at Liverpool. Sometimes it was Allison, sometimes Trent, sometimes Robertson, sometimes Mane or Salah.
Messi had the most man of the match performances in Europe and La Liga I believe, Van Dijk wasn't even close.
I know your argument is that he's a defender and it's harder but the cold facts remain that Messi was usually the best player on the pitch, VVD wasn't.
They both won titles, just because Barcelona win more often shouldn't take away from the achievement of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is fair enough. I didn't watch a lot of Messi but his stats say he was one of the best in the world again. I watched a lot of VVD and I say he was one of the best in the world. I'd say what he did as a defender is comparable to what Messi did as an attacker. He also scored goals, assisted them, was a huge calming influence on the side and built attacks from the back. So for me he was over and above normal defensive work, which he also did outstandingly well.
Messi has 26 goals in 24 matches against English clubs. This is only the top 6 English clubs as well. Imagine if he was playing in this City side who score on average over 10.5million goals per game against absolute dross defences in the PL. Messi would get over 200 a season at his peak.
FIFA cut out the sentiments and went for the kill. No one comes close to Messi. Simple!
Van Dijk keeping clean sheets against the likes of Cardiff and Huddersfield. Stat padding against absolute dross who don't get out of their own half. Got no where near the amount of clean sheets when playing for a lesser team at Southampton. Just goes to show this Liverpool team carries him.
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posted on 24/9/19
"The criteria for choosing these players has always been interesting and debatable and I always had a problem with the opinion that van Dijk was the obvious choice. Like since when is 50 goals, 20 assists and CL top scorer considered a small achievement. Just because he is Messi must never down grade the achievement. Sterling or Mane must never win it just because Ronaldo or Messi have dropped standards.They must win it because they have surpassed the standards. We have all of a sudden created some ridiculous low bar so that other players can win footballs top awards and I find it ridiculous."
If any other player in world football had had the season Messi just had (bar Ronaldo) they would have been by far and away the favourite for the award.
But because it's one of the two it's just expected of them and taken for granted.
posted on 24/9/19
50 goals and 20 assists is obviously brilliant but you can't complain about the way Ballon D'or is awarded and then completely lean towards offensive players.
Van Dijk for Liverpool last year got 6 goals and 4 assists as a CB but more importantly they had won the CL with him leading the back line and they'd lost I think just a single game all season in the league? That's largely due to his influence on that side.
posted on 24/9/19
Regarding the absence of Man City players I can understand due to the fact that City's game plan is more team based than anything else we have seen in football.The output of each player from the goal keeper to the attacker is almost equal and hence goals and contributions are spread out.
The likes of Robertson probably lost out in the popularity votes where even a higher profile player like van Dijk also fared badly. His performances for Scotland probably didn't help
I had some people have a go at Hazard but he was kinda the best footballer at the world cup last year and his number in the PL were good last season. Mbappe vs Mane or Salah, well Mbappe is 20 years old and has bigger profile. Its not so hard to understand.
As for Ramos, he is Champions League Royalty
posted on 24/9/19
"Like since when is 50 goals, 20 assists and CL top scorer considered a small achievement"
It isn't but how do you judge a defender against that? What do they have to do to rival that as a defender?
It's looking like VVD will win the Balon D'or considering it's the media who vote for it and he was top choice for the FIFA award amongst the media. Although considering Messi's outstanding record again for the past season it obviously wouldn't be surprising if Messi won it.
posted on 24/9/19
"But because it's one of the two it's just expected of them and taken for granted."
I don't think they have been taken for granted, one won the FIFA award and the other came third. In fact apart from once, I believe one of the two have won it for around a decade.
posted on 24/9/19
comment by Boss By Hugo (U18550)
posted 13 seconds ago
50 goals and 20 assists is obviously brilliant but you can't complain about the way Ballon D'or is awarded and then completely lean towards offensive players.
Van Dijk for Liverpool last year got 6 goals and 4 assists as a CB but more importantly they had won the CL with him leading the back line and they'd lost I think just a single game all season in the league? That's largely due to his influence on that side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair argument, but what is the harder achievement Boss? I will let you answer that but you know an attacker must always have an edge as what they do is harder. The award must not be about how a player has transformed a team.
posted on 24/9/19
Agree with the Modric sentiments. He was never the best player in the world last year. Was he even that good in the world cup or in Madrid CL win? A certain Ronaldo no longer playing for Madrid and look how that has turned out for them with Modric still about.
Got no issue with Messi winning it again. He was outstanding like every year.
VVD comes into because pre VVD we were Arsenal but now we are one of the best in the world. Hard to measure that in stats.
posted on 24/9/19
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 56 seconds ago
"But because it's one of the two it's just expected of them and taken for granted."
I don't think they have been taken for granted, one won the FIFA award and the other came third. In fact apart from once, I believe one of the two have won it for around a decade.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason them 2 keep winning it is because none of the other players have come close despite the media clamour to pretend they have.Ronaldo is 34, Messi 32, much slower and less dynamic players against their 20-2-6 year old counter parts but still outscore them.
yet you will see some put forward the argument that they are less deserving.
posted on 24/9/19
comment by (kash) I'm the Mané - 6 Times Baby (U1108)
posted 43 seconds ago
Agree with the Modric sentiments. He was never the best player in the world last year. Was he even that good in the world cup or in Madrid CL win? A certain Ronaldo no longer playing for Madrid and look how that has turned out for them with Modric still about.
Got no issue with Messi winning it again. He was outstanding like every year.
VVD comes into because pre VVD we were Arsenal but now we are one of the best in the world. Hard to measure that in stats.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough.I also agree with Boss's sentiments about van Dijk's achievements.I just hate these token nominations of anything but Messi or Ronaldo.
posted on 24/9/19
comment by gunnersaurus rex (U21846)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 56 seconds ago
"But because it's one of the two it's just expected of them and taken for granted."
I don't think they have been taken for granted, one won the FIFA award and the other came third. In fact apart from once, I believe one of the two have won it for around a decade.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason them 2 keep winning it is because none of the other players have come close despite the media clamour to pretend they have.Ronaldo is 34, Messi 32, much slower and less dynamic players against their 20-2-6 year old counter parts but still outscore them.
yet you will see some put forward the argument that they are less deserving.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly but this year VVD came close, so split them. Ronaldo is 35 now so I'd say it will be his last season in the top three.
posted on 24/9/19
comment by gunnersaurus rex (U21846)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Boss By Hugo (U18550)
posted 13 seconds ago
50 goals and 20 assists is obviously brilliant but you can't complain about the way Ballon D'or is awarded and then completely lean towards offensive players.
Van Dijk for Liverpool last year got 6 goals and 4 assists as a CB but more importantly they had won the CL with him leading the back line and they'd lost I think just a single game all season in the league? That's largely due to his influence on that side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair argument, but what is the harder achievement Boss? I will let you answer that but you know an attacker must always have an edge as what they do is harder. The award must not be about how a player has transformed a team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How a player transforms a team is actually a massive part of that and the trophies they win as a result of the influence they bring.
I'm a forward so obviously will be biased in saying that scoring is harder than defending. Actually that's just a fact. But you also have to recognise defenders.
Van Dijk has had close to a perfect season as you can for a CB.
posted on 24/9/19
Modric winning the Ballon D'or was the wrong decision. Croatia weren't even amazing and struggled to get through each round.
posted on 24/9/19
Also who have the media clamoured to pretend had come close to Ronaldo/Messi over the last decade? I thought it was widely accepted that both were the top two the past decade?
posted on 24/9/19
I saw an interesting idea on twitter that the votes for best player of the year should be done at 4 points over the season with regular intervals inbetween. Doing it this way should eliminate ‘recency bias’ and means players who start well and tail off towards end of season or don’t happen to be in a team with all eyes on them, fighting for trophies, may have a more appropriate share of cotes
posted on 24/9/19
Awards given on a yearly basis is stupid in a sport which has seasons spanning over 2 years
posted on 24/9/19
Kind of agree about Modric, but who would you have picked above Cannavaro in 2006? It was a year where most of the star names underperformed. Ronaldinho for example had a poor world cup. Zidane didn't do much in the CL etc.
posted on 24/9/19
The majority of Messi his 50 goals a year is always against Eibar, Granada, Celta, Alaves, Leganes, Valladolid, Getafe, Levante, Espanyol, Osasuna and Mallorca. Those teams are championship level teams ffs.
Ronaldo went to Serie A and his goals 50 goals a season has drought.
posted on 24/9/19
Ronaldo is 34 years old, unless you thought he’d score 50 a season till the day he retired i’m not sure why you’d be surprised his goalscoring rate is decreasing. Getafe finished 5th in La Liga last season. More goals were scored in PL last season than La Liga. Bottom 10 La Liga teams got more cumulative points than bottom 10 PL teams last season. Weak, yer da points my man
posted on 24/9/19
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 43 minutes ago
"Like since when is 50 goals, 20 assists and CL top scorer considered a small achievement"
It isn't but how do you judge a defender against that? What do they have to do to rival that as a defender?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a very difficult one to judge, but like I said before, my reasoning for choosing Messi over VVD doesn't just stem from his outstanding numbers, it's his influence every week on games.
More often than not Messi was the best player on the pitch last season. Whilst VVD was a vital cog, he wasn't always the standout player at Liverpool. Sometimes it was Allison, sometimes Trent, sometimes Robertson, sometimes Mane or Salah.
Messi had the most man of the match performances in Europe and La Liga I believe, Van Dijk wasn't even close.
I know your argument is that he's a defender and it's harder but the cold facts remain that Messi was usually the best player on the pitch, VVD wasn't.
They both won titles, just because Barcelona win more often shouldn't take away from the achievement of it.
posted on 24/9/19
I watch that league week in week out because I am interested in tactics as a youth coach myself.
Majority of the cb's in their league are midgets.
Most of the teams lack pace on the wings and upfront. Getafe would be relegated in the PL.
They have technicall players but if we played those teams we would trash most of those teams.
Every team want to play the same way there.
posted on 24/9/19
comment by The Mane Man ( life at this age is rubbish with no money #needajob) (U19731)
posted 7 minutes ago
The majority of Messi his 50 goals a year is always against Eibar, Granada, Celta, Alaves, Leganes, Valladolid, Getafe, Levante, Espanyol, Osasuna and Mallorca. Those teams are championship level teams ffs.
Ronaldo went to Serie A and his goals 50 goals a season has drought.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lol Messi's goals by opposition:
1 Sevilla FC 36
2 Atlético de Madrid 29
3 Valencia CF 28
4 Real Madrid CF 26
5 Real Club Deportivo Espanyol 25
6 Athletic de Bilbao 24
posted on 24/9/19
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 43 minutes ago
"Like since when is 50 goals, 20 assists and CL top scorer considered a small achievement"
It isn't but how do you judge a defender against that? What do they have to do to rival that as a defender?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a very difficult one to judge, but like I said before, my reasoning for choosing Messi over VVD doesn't just stem from his outstanding numbers, it's his influence every week on games.
More often than not Messi was the best player on the pitch last season. Whilst VVD was a vital cog, he wasn't always the standout player at Liverpool. Sometimes it was Allison, sometimes Trent, sometimes Robertson, sometimes Mane or Salah.
Messi had the most man of the match performances in Europe and La Liga I believe, Van Dijk wasn't even close.
I know your argument is that he's a defender and it's harder but the cold facts remain that Messi was usually the best player on the pitch, VVD wasn't.
They both won titles, just because Barcelona win more often shouldn't take away from the achievement of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is fair enough. I didn't watch a lot of Messi but his stats say he was one of the best in the world again. I watched a lot of VVD and I say he was one of the best in the world. I'd say what he did as a defender is comparable to what Messi did as an attacker. He also scored goals, assisted them, was a huge calming influence on the side and built attacks from the back. So for me he was over and above normal defensive work, which he also did outstandingly well.
posted on 24/9/19
Messi has 26 goals in 24 matches against English clubs. This is only the top 6 English clubs as well. Imagine if he was playing in this City side who score on average over 10.5million goals per game against absolute dross defences in the PL. Messi would get over 200 a season at his peak.
posted on 24/9/19
FIFA cut out the sentiments and went for the kill. No one comes close to Messi. Simple!
posted on 24/9/19
Van Dijk keeping clean sheets against the likes of Cardiff and Huddersfield. Stat padding against absolute dross who don't get out of their own half. Got no where near the amount of clean sheets when playing for a lesser team at Southampton. Just goes to show this Liverpool team carries him.
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