I’m not sure where to start with this Nev.
Sounds like you bore the brunt of some over zealous celebrating/moaning from a couple of friends and have labelled all Liverpool fans as agreeing with that?
MOTD analysis was very anti-Liverpool in the decisions and labelled Klopp as trying to deflect away from the non-penalty (which I think is a penalty albeit a dive).
Most Liverpool fans I’ve spoken to have said they were lucky and we look a very good team.
Also worth pointing out (and I can’t remember who said this) that whatever you think about that Choudhury tackle he has to be very very careful he doesn’t become labelled as a dirty player who injures other players. Yes he has an all action tackling style but that’s now his third incident following his England error and the Richie tackle.
Once is a mistake, twice is immature, the third time it starts to become a problem.
I understand people who would start to think he’s a horrible thug when they look at three tackles that have significantly injured opponents in 3 months. It’s a problem.
I agree that Klopp went over the top on Hamza, could say it's good management though. Deflecting away questions from Mane's theatrics to win the penalty.
Trent committed a worse challenge on Tiliemans which he failed to mention. VAR reviewed it and didn't even think it worthy of a yellow.
i forgot to add in the bar i watched the game the only Liverpool fan there yelled goal and laughed before every Liverpool free kick as if he had seen it on his phone because of the delay on Bein sport. After the game wanted to rub it in told him in no uncertain terms to back off....
Agreed about Hamza he's going to get a rep if he's not careful but if the ref had given the foul against Mo before it would be a non issue.
Sounds like you're easily triggered.
Some fans like to hand out some banter towards the fans of the team their club beat. Not my first thought as I thought Leicester played well and made a great game between two teams who like to play football but every club has them.
Really don't see how that can make you hate a club and disown a friend ffs
comment by Your Honour (U17603)
posted 32 minutes ago
I agree that Klopp went over the top on Hamza, could say it's good management though. Deflecting away questions from Mane's theatrics to win the penalty.
Trent committed a worse challenge on Tiliemans which he failed to mention. VAR reviewed it and didn't even think it worthy of a yellow.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
VAR can't decide on a yellow. It should have been a yellow but that's not for VAR to decide.
Although the player did intentionally foul Salah and this happens every week, especially late in games, it was a bit too rough and therefore one of those one's that's bordering on a red. However, not a red for me.
No issue with having a problem with the foul just some liverpool fans and the manager wanting to hang the lad out to dry. There where a couple of body checks on Maddison its part of the game.
It wasn't just banter it was aggressive entitlement that i had not seen before from Liverpool fan's getting like Man Utd.
I'm not one to react like this but its got under my skin i'm taking my mate to the return leg you might of one the league by then.
Given the fuss made about it, I was expecting the replays of Choudhury's chalenge to be a lot worse. It's a clear yellow to me: No more, no less. His studs aren't up, he's gone for the ball albeit with stopping the man as "second prize" as it were, it's not an out-of-control lunge.
Unfortunately, I've had no reason to change my view on Klopp from the first few weeks of his tenure: Excellent manager but unpleasant individual. The way he speaks about other players and other teams has always been condescension wrapped in charming words. I think that's why a lot of people want him to fail.
As for the penalty, no arguments. Albrighton makes a small error, tries to atone and compounds it by knocking the back of Mané's legs.
comment by Nevsaysagoal2city (U5194)
posted 1 minute ago
No issue with having a problem with the foul just some liverpool fans and the manager wanting to hang the lad out to dry. There where a couple of body checks on Maddison its part of the game.
It wasn't just banter it was aggressive entitlement that i had not seen before from Liverpool fan's getting like Man Utd.
I'm not one to react like this but its got under my skin i'm taking my mate to the return leg you might of one the league by then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, you can understand people being annoyed that an intentional foul caused an injury to one of their players.
What you described sounded like banter. Did something else happen?
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 3 minutes ago
Given the fuss made about it, I was expecting the replays of Choudhury's chalenge to be a lot worse. It's a clear yellow to me: No more, no less. His studs aren't up, he's gone for the ball albeit with stopping the man as "second prize" as it were, it's not an out-of-control lunge.
Unfortunately, I've had no reason to change my view on Klopp from the first few weeks of his tenure: Excellent manager but unpleasant individual. The way he speaks about other players and other teams has always been condescension wrapped in charming words. I think that's why a lot of people want him to fail.
As for the penalty, no arguments. Albrighton makes a small error, tries to atone and compounds it by knocking the back of Mané's legs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He didn't go for the ball at all. The ball and Salah were away.
He did go for the ball, he's just misjudged how quick Salah's feet are like many before him.
As I say, he's made sure to bring Salah down and stop him if he can't get there. But there's no intent to injure and it's not dangerous. That Salah gets his ankle twisted underneath it is unfortunate but I see nothing in the challenge to suggest he shouldn't make similar attempts in the future.
The challenge was dreadful. He didn't have any intention of getting the ball. Our manager has a right to talk about it. That challenge could of injured one of our best players. it forced him off the pitch so he has a right to talk about it.
All this talk of luck as well is interesting. We completely dominated the game and had around 18 chances compared to your 2 chances. Our strikers were not clinical enough and if they were we would of been out of sight.
A bit like Trent didn't go for the ball on Tielemans, where's the outrage?
Var clearly is not working except for offside.Refs are still as poor, and the var officials will not overrule their mates.
Sat pen was soft, ref was a homer, wanted to give it and his mates with Var will not overrule.
Quite simply Var is not working due to it not being independant of current officials.
It works in Rugby as refs ask Var for advice and decision, they dont give a decision and let Var decide if right or wrong.
Var has not stopped outcome of matches being decided by officials,therefore it is not working as it should.
As said so many times refs not accountable,Var hasnt changed this.
comment by Your Honour (U17603)
posted 10 minutes ago
A bit like Trent didn't go for the ball on Tielemans, where's the outrage?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He did go for the ball, it was there, then went another direction. He was attempting to block and ended up with his foot coming down on Tielemans foot. Completely accidental.
These challenges weren't similar. The challenge on Salah was a cynical foul I'm order to stop a counter attack late in the game. You see them every week and if you're the manager, you want the foul to happen. However, it was too rough and bordering on a red, considering there was no attempt to play the ball.
comment by thorneyfox (U5061)
posted 2 minutes ago
Var clearly is not working except for offside.Refs are still as poor, and the var officials will not overrule their mates.
Sat pen was soft, ref was a homer, wanted to give it and his mates with Var will not overrule.
Quite simply Var is not working due to it not being independant of current officials.
It works in Rugby as refs ask Var for advice and decision, they dont give a decision and let Var decide if right or wrong.
Var has not stopped outcome of matches being decided by officials,therefore it is not working as it should.
As said so many times refs not accountable,Var hasnt changed this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you foul the opposition, dive or not, according to the rules it's a penalty. VAR can't change the rules. Blame the player not VAR.
Losing a game like that to a penalty deep into injury time is incredibly frustrating and disappointing, but that is all. Ultimately it cost us 1 point that we probably would have got against the run of play. We can cry about bad luck and being on the wrong side of the decisions, but we’ve not done too badly on that front so far this season. We were helped out by VAR against Wolves. We were on the right side of a very marginal VAR decision against Spurs and a Newcastle player got sent off in a decision that VAR may not have overturned if he’d not got a red.
In terms of the decisions against Liverpool. First of all I don’t think that VAR should be intervening in any of them. The benchmark of ‘clear and obvious’ was not met and this is demonstrated by the arguments we’re having on whether they were or weren’t. The penalty was soft, but the error was needless. I wouldn’t expect VAR to overrule it, but I wouldn’t want VAR to give it either if the referee on the pitch hadn’t. Choudhury’s challenge was also not a straight red in my opinion, but I always think that professional fouls of any description (e.g. shirt pulls to stop a quick break) should be a minimum yellow. I just think that if VAR are intervening in challenges like the Choudhury one or the TAA one then we’re going to get games changed far too frequently by players being sent off. I do, however, agree with DM that Hamza has to be careful that he doesn’t become known for the wrong reasons.
In terms of Liverpool being successful – who cares? It’s probably quite good to pass the PL trophy around a bit. Personally I don’t like one team being too dominant for too long. Besides I seem to know loads of people who inexplicably support Manchester United. So Liverpool doing well against United’s current predicament has great comic value.
I don’t really see anyone disagreeing here.
Nobody thinks Choudhury should have been sent off but it was a professional foul.
Nobody thinks VAR should have overruled the pen even though it was soft.
Nobody thinks Trent’s tackle was intentional or out of control.
Nothing really to see here.
I suppose the only taking point is whether Klopp was fair to single out a young opposing player for criticism for something he would tell every single one of his players to do. And let me tell you Milner and Henderson do it regularly to the pint of one a game.
Now I don’t actually mind Klopp. His charm and charisma outweigh his negatives and I think he’s good for the game. Yes his comment was annoying but it’s what all top managers do. See Ferguson and Mourinho before him. Pep is no better and in fact worse. I guess it comes with the territory but I hope behind closed doors he apologised to Choudhury and gave him some professional advice on calming some of his tackles down.
We move on.
comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 7 minutes ago
I don’t really see anyone disagreeing here.
Nobody thinks Choudhury should have been sent off but it was a professional foul.
Nobody thinks VAR should have overruled the pen even though it was soft.
Nobody thinks Trent’s tackle was intentional or out of control.
Nothing really to see here.
I suppose the only taking point is whether Klopp was fair to single out a young opposing player for criticism for something he would tell every single one of his players to do. And let me tell you Milner and Henderson do it regularly to the pint of one a game.
Now I don’t actually mind Klopp. His charm and charisma outweigh his negatives and I think he’s good for the game. Yes his comment was annoying but it’s what all top managers do. See Ferguson and Mourinho before him. Pep is no better and in fact worse. I guess it comes with the territory but I hope behind closed doors he apologised to Choudhury and gave him some professional advice on calming some of his tackles down.
We move on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with all of this. However as I said earlier, the foul on Salah wasn't just a normal cynical foul to stop an attack, take one for the team, in the dying minutes, it was very rough and had a high chance of causing injury. Most managers would be angry with that, considering it risks denting the chances for winning the title, should the player be out of actions for weeks.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 7 minutes ago
I don’t really see anyone disagreeing here.
Nobody thinks Choudhury should have been sent off but it was a professional foul.
Nobody thinks VAR should have overruled the pen even though it was soft.
Nobody thinks Trent’s tackle was intentional or out of control.
Nothing really to see here.
I suppose the only taking point is whether Klopp was fair to single out a young opposing player for criticism for something he would tell every single one of his players to do. And let me tell you Milner and Henderson do it regularly to the pint of one a game.
Now I don’t actually mind Klopp. His charm and charisma outweigh his negatives and I think he’s good for the game. Yes his comment was annoying but it’s what all top managers do. See Ferguson and Mourinho before him. Pep is no better and in fact worse. I guess it comes with the territory but I hope behind closed doors he apologised to Choudhury and gave him some professional advice on calming some of his tackles down.
We move on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with all of this. However as I said earlier, the foul on Salah wasn't just a normal cynical foul to stop an attack, take one for the team, in the dying minutes, it was very rough and had a high chance of causing injury. Most managers would be angry with that, considering it risks denting the chances for winning the title, should the player be out of actions for weeks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That goes some way to explaining Klopp’s reaction, but looking at this objectively you shouldn’t judge a tackle on the basis of who it’s committed against or the impact it might have on a future title challenge. This would just increase the perception that referees bottle tough decisions in favour of bigger clubs and increases the pressure on them to do so.
I would expect the same action if it was Choudhury on Salah as I would if it were Jordan Henderson on Rachid Ghezzal. Just to be clear even if we were lucky enough to be fighting for the title - Ghezzal would not be a player who would be pivotal in achieving it.
comment by Jobyfox (U4183)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 7 minutes ago
I don’t really see anyone disagreeing here.
Nobody thinks Choudhury should have been sent off but it was a professional foul.
Nobody thinks VAR should have overruled the pen even though it was soft.
Nobody thinks Trent’s tackle was intentional or out of control.
Nothing really to see here.
I suppose the only taking point is whether Klopp was fair to single out a young opposing player for criticism for something he would tell every single one of his players to do. And let me tell you Milner and Henderson do it regularly to the pint of one a game.
Now I don’t actually mind Klopp. His charm and charisma outweigh his negatives and I think he’s good for the game. Yes his comment was annoying but it’s what all top managers do. See Ferguson and Mourinho before him. Pep is no better and in fact worse. I guess it comes with the territory but I hope behind closed doors he apologised to Choudhury and gave him some professional advice on calming some of his tackles down.
We move on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with all of this. However as I said earlier, the foul on Salah wasn't just a normal cynical foul to stop an attack, take one for the team, in the dying minutes, it was very rough and had a high chance of causing injury. Most managers would be angry with that, considering it risks denting the chances for winning the title, should the player be out of actions for weeks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That goes some way to explaining Klopp’s reaction, but looking at this objectively you shouldn’t judge a tackle on the basis of who it’s committed against or the impact it might have on a future title challenge. This would just increase the perception that referees bottle tough decisions in favour of bigger clubs and increases the pressure on them to do so.
I would expect the same action if it was Choudhury on Salah as I would if it were Jordan Henderson on Rachid Ghezzal. Just to be clear even if we were lucky enough to be fighting for the title - Ghezzal would not be a player who would be pivotal in achieving it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair point. So let's say any manager would be angry, considering it risks denting the objective they are aiming towards.
A scan has revealed Mohamed Salah suffered no major injury following a challenge from Hamza Choudhury in Liverpool’s 2-1 win over Leicester on Saturday, Sky Sports News understands. For all the Liverpool angst it wasn't a studs up leg breaker. Given the reaction makes the shooting of Mane with a Nerf gun look understated.
Joby i know you are not a big fan of me but come you could not of been at the game or sitting next to a Liverpool whilst watching i know no one who was there who contacted who weren't hacked off and not in a love fest with the reds.
comment by thorneyfox (U5061)
posted 3 hours, 21 minutes ago
Var clearly is not working except for offside.Refs are still as poor, and the var officials will not overrule their mates.
Sat pen was soft, ref was a homer, wanted to give it and his mates with Var will not overrule.
Quite simply Var is not working due to it not being independant of current officials.
It works in Rugby as refs ask Var for advice and decision, they dont give a decision and let Var decide if right or wrong.
Var has not stopped outcome of matches being decided by officials,therefore it is not working as it should.
As said so many times refs not accountable,Var hasnt changed this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason VAR isn’t working is because it’s not used correctly. It’s the clear & obvious that’s the problem, someone has to decide what clear & obvious is & most don’t want to tell the ref he’s got it wrong. In Rugby it’s used to help the ref arrive at the correct decision, not say you were wrong.
comment by Liecestersport (U22010)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by thorneyfox (U5061)
posted 3 hours, 21 minutes ago
Var clearly is not working except for offside.Refs are still as poor, and the var officials will not overrule their mates.
Sat pen was soft, ref was a homer, wanted to give it and his mates with Var will not overrule.
Quite simply Var is not working due to it not being independant of current officials.
It works in Rugby as refs ask Var for advice and decision, they dont give a decision and let Var decide if right or wrong.
Var has not stopped outcome of matches being decided by officials,therefore it is not working as it should.
As said so many times refs not accountable,Var hasnt changed this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason VAR isn’t working is because it’s not used correctly. It’s the clear & obvious that’s the problem, someone has to decide what clear & obvious is & most don’t want to tell the ref he’s got it wrong. In Rugby it’s used to help the ref arrive at the correct decision, not say you were wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. Either remove the phrase completely or lay out the specifics of what it means.
I'd just remove it. If it's an error it's an error. Clear and obvious is subjective which is what we were trying to get away from in the first place.
I suspect Rodgers was correct in that they wouldn't have overturned the decision had the referee not given it.
Comment deleted by Article Creator
Having watched it at both men's and women's world cups where it was constantly getting involved and overturning decisions - sometimes incorrectly - VAR being used as little as possible is a good thing. In the case of Mané, it would only have been worth overturning it if there was either no contact or only contact on a completely different part of the body.
I think most people on the Leicester board know my views of VAR by now, but this weekend demonstrated a good point in its favour: After the challenge and potential injury to Salah, Choudhury has received racism and threats online which are now being investigated. It's not necessarily Liverpool natives who have done this, with Liverpool and Egypt fans both in this country and abroad being touted as possible culprits. All of which raises the point: It would be little wonder if referees are reticent to give high-profile decisions against beloved players or global fanbases if there are potential online death threats against them and their families waiting for them that evening. At least slow-motion technology can take some of that abuse away from them.
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Nev's Monday moan.....
Page 1 of 2
posted on 7/10/19
I’m not sure where to start with this Nev.
Sounds like you bore the brunt of some over zealous celebrating/moaning from a couple of friends and have labelled all Liverpool fans as agreeing with that?
MOTD analysis was very anti-Liverpool in the decisions and labelled Klopp as trying to deflect away from the non-penalty (which I think is a penalty albeit a dive).
Most Liverpool fans I’ve spoken to have said they were lucky and we look a very good team.
Also worth pointing out (and I can’t remember who said this) that whatever you think about that Choudhury tackle he has to be very very careful he doesn’t become labelled as a dirty player who injures other players. Yes he has an all action tackling style but that’s now his third incident following his England error and the Richie tackle.
Once is a mistake, twice is immature, the third time it starts to become a problem.
I understand people who would start to think he’s a horrible thug when they look at three tackles that have significantly injured opponents in 3 months. It’s a problem.
posted on 7/10/19
I agree that Klopp went over the top on Hamza, could say it's good management though. Deflecting away questions from Mane's theatrics to win the penalty.
Trent committed a worse challenge on Tiliemans which he failed to mention. VAR reviewed it and didn't even think it worthy of a yellow.
posted on 7/10/19
i forgot to add in the bar i watched the game the only Liverpool fan there yelled goal and laughed before every Liverpool free kick as if he had seen it on his phone because of the delay on Bein sport. After the game wanted to rub it in told him in no uncertain terms to back off....
Agreed about Hamza he's going to get a rep if he's not careful but if the ref had given the foul against Mo before it would be a non issue.
posted on 7/10/19
Sounds like you're easily triggered.
Some fans like to hand out some banter towards the fans of the team their club beat. Not my first thought as I thought Leicester played well and made a great game between two teams who like to play football but every club has them.
Really don't see how that can make you hate a club and disown a friend ffs
posted on 7/10/19
comment by Your Honour (U17603)
posted 32 minutes ago
I agree that Klopp went over the top on Hamza, could say it's good management though. Deflecting away questions from Mane's theatrics to win the penalty.
Trent committed a worse challenge on Tiliemans which he failed to mention. VAR reviewed it and didn't even think it worthy of a yellow.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
VAR can't decide on a yellow. It should have been a yellow but that's not for VAR to decide.
Although the player did intentionally foul Salah and this happens every week, especially late in games, it was a bit too rough and therefore one of those one's that's bordering on a red. However, not a red for me.
posted on 7/10/19
No issue with having a problem with the foul just some liverpool fans and the manager wanting to hang the lad out to dry. There where a couple of body checks on Maddison its part of the game.
It wasn't just banter it was aggressive entitlement that i had not seen before from Liverpool fan's getting like Man Utd.
I'm not one to react like this but its got under my skin i'm taking my mate to the return leg you might of one the league by then.
posted on 7/10/19
Given the fuss made about it, I was expecting the replays of Choudhury's chalenge to be a lot worse. It's a clear yellow to me: No more, no less. His studs aren't up, he's gone for the ball albeit with stopping the man as "second prize" as it were, it's not an out-of-control lunge.
Unfortunately, I've had no reason to change my view on Klopp from the first few weeks of his tenure: Excellent manager but unpleasant individual. The way he speaks about other players and other teams has always been condescension wrapped in charming words. I think that's why a lot of people want him to fail.
As for the penalty, no arguments. Albrighton makes a small error, tries to atone and compounds it by knocking the back of Mané's legs.
posted on 7/10/19
comment by Nevsaysagoal2city (U5194)
posted 1 minute ago
No issue with having a problem with the foul just some liverpool fans and the manager wanting to hang the lad out to dry. There where a couple of body checks on Maddison its part of the game.
It wasn't just banter it was aggressive entitlement that i had not seen before from Liverpool fan's getting like Man Utd.
I'm not one to react like this but its got under my skin i'm taking my mate to the return leg you might of one the league by then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, you can understand people being annoyed that an intentional foul caused an injury to one of their players.
What you described sounded like banter. Did something else happen?
posted on 7/10/19
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 3 minutes ago
Given the fuss made about it, I was expecting the replays of Choudhury's chalenge to be a lot worse. It's a clear yellow to me: No more, no less. His studs aren't up, he's gone for the ball albeit with stopping the man as "second prize" as it were, it's not an out-of-control lunge.
Unfortunately, I've had no reason to change my view on Klopp from the first few weeks of his tenure: Excellent manager but unpleasant individual. The way he speaks about other players and other teams has always been condescension wrapped in charming words. I think that's why a lot of people want him to fail.
As for the penalty, no arguments. Albrighton makes a small error, tries to atone and compounds it by knocking the back of Mané's legs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He didn't go for the ball at all. The ball and Salah were away.
posted on 7/10/19
He did go for the ball, he's just misjudged how quick Salah's feet are like many before him.
As I say, he's made sure to bring Salah down and stop him if he can't get there. But there's no intent to injure and it's not dangerous. That Salah gets his ankle twisted underneath it is unfortunate but I see nothing in the challenge to suggest he shouldn't make similar attempts in the future.
posted on 7/10/19
The challenge was dreadful. He didn't have any intention of getting the ball. Our manager has a right to talk about it. That challenge could of injured one of our best players. it forced him off the pitch so he has a right to talk about it.
All this talk of luck as well is interesting. We completely dominated the game and had around 18 chances compared to your 2 chances. Our strikers were not clinical enough and if they were we would of been out of sight.
posted on 7/10/19
A bit like Trent didn't go for the ball on Tielemans, where's the outrage?
posted on 7/10/19
Var clearly is not working except for offside.Refs are still as poor, and the var officials will not overrule their mates.
Sat pen was soft, ref was a homer, wanted to give it and his mates with Var will not overrule.
Quite simply Var is not working due to it not being independant of current officials.
It works in Rugby as refs ask Var for advice and decision, they dont give a decision and let Var decide if right or wrong.
Var has not stopped outcome of matches being decided by officials,therefore it is not working as it should.
As said so many times refs not accountable,Var hasnt changed this.
posted on 7/10/19
comment by Your Honour (U17603)
posted 10 minutes ago
A bit like Trent didn't go for the ball on Tielemans, where's the outrage?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He did go for the ball, it was there, then went another direction. He was attempting to block and ended up with his foot coming down on Tielemans foot. Completely accidental.
These challenges weren't similar. The challenge on Salah was a cynical foul I'm order to stop a counter attack late in the game. You see them every week and if you're the manager, you want the foul to happen. However, it was too rough and bordering on a red, considering there was no attempt to play the ball.
posted on 7/10/19
comment by thorneyfox (U5061)
posted 2 minutes ago
Var clearly is not working except for offside.Refs are still as poor, and the var officials will not overrule their mates.
Sat pen was soft, ref was a homer, wanted to give it and his mates with Var will not overrule.
Quite simply Var is not working due to it not being independant of current officials.
It works in Rugby as refs ask Var for advice and decision, they dont give a decision and let Var decide if right or wrong.
Var has not stopped outcome of matches being decided by officials,therefore it is not working as it should.
As said so many times refs not accountable,Var hasnt changed this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you foul the opposition, dive or not, according to the rules it's a penalty. VAR can't change the rules. Blame the player not VAR.
posted on 7/10/19
Losing a game like that to a penalty deep into injury time is incredibly frustrating and disappointing, but that is all. Ultimately it cost us 1 point that we probably would have got against the run of play. We can cry about bad luck and being on the wrong side of the decisions, but we’ve not done too badly on that front so far this season. We were helped out by VAR against Wolves. We were on the right side of a very marginal VAR decision against Spurs and a Newcastle player got sent off in a decision that VAR may not have overturned if he’d not got a red.
In terms of the decisions against Liverpool. First of all I don’t think that VAR should be intervening in any of them. The benchmark of ‘clear and obvious’ was not met and this is demonstrated by the arguments we’re having on whether they were or weren’t. The penalty was soft, but the error was needless. I wouldn’t expect VAR to overrule it, but I wouldn’t want VAR to give it either if the referee on the pitch hadn’t. Choudhury’s challenge was also not a straight red in my opinion, but I always think that professional fouls of any description (e.g. shirt pulls to stop a quick break) should be a minimum yellow. I just think that if VAR are intervening in challenges like the Choudhury one or the TAA one then we’re going to get games changed far too frequently by players being sent off. I do, however, agree with DM that Hamza has to be careful that he doesn’t become known for the wrong reasons.
In terms of Liverpool being successful – who cares? It’s probably quite good to pass the PL trophy around a bit. Personally I don’t like one team being too dominant for too long. Besides I seem to know loads of people who inexplicably support Manchester United. So Liverpool doing well against United’s current predicament has great comic value.
posted on 7/10/19
I don’t really see anyone disagreeing here.
Nobody thinks Choudhury should have been sent off but it was a professional foul.
Nobody thinks VAR should have overruled the pen even though it was soft.
Nobody thinks Trent’s tackle was intentional or out of control.
Nothing really to see here.
I suppose the only taking point is whether Klopp was fair to single out a young opposing player for criticism for something he would tell every single one of his players to do. And let me tell you Milner and Henderson do it regularly to the pint of one a game.
Now I don’t actually mind Klopp. His charm and charisma outweigh his negatives and I think he’s good for the game. Yes his comment was annoying but it’s what all top managers do. See Ferguson and Mourinho before him. Pep is no better and in fact worse. I guess it comes with the territory but I hope behind closed doors he apologised to Choudhury and gave him some professional advice on calming some of his tackles down.
We move on.
posted on 7/10/19
comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 7 minutes ago
I don’t really see anyone disagreeing here.
Nobody thinks Choudhury should have been sent off but it was a professional foul.
Nobody thinks VAR should have overruled the pen even though it was soft.
Nobody thinks Trent’s tackle was intentional or out of control.
Nothing really to see here.
I suppose the only taking point is whether Klopp was fair to single out a young opposing player for criticism for something he would tell every single one of his players to do. And let me tell you Milner and Henderson do it regularly to the pint of one a game.
Now I don’t actually mind Klopp. His charm and charisma outweigh his negatives and I think he’s good for the game. Yes his comment was annoying but it’s what all top managers do. See Ferguson and Mourinho before him. Pep is no better and in fact worse. I guess it comes with the territory but I hope behind closed doors he apologised to Choudhury and gave him some professional advice on calming some of his tackles down.
We move on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with all of this. However as I said earlier, the foul on Salah wasn't just a normal cynical foul to stop an attack, take one for the team, in the dying minutes, it was very rough and had a high chance of causing injury. Most managers would be angry with that, considering it risks denting the chances for winning the title, should the player be out of actions for weeks.
posted on 7/10/19
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 7 minutes ago
I don’t really see anyone disagreeing here.
Nobody thinks Choudhury should have been sent off but it was a professional foul.
Nobody thinks VAR should have overruled the pen even though it was soft.
Nobody thinks Trent’s tackle was intentional or out of control.
Nothing really to see here.
I suppose the only taking point is whether Klopp was fair to single out a young opposing player for criticism for something he would tell every single one of his players to do. And let me tell you Milner and Henderson do it regularly to the pint of one a game.
Now I don’t actually mind Klopp. His charm and charisma outweigh his negatives and I think he’s good for the game. Yes his comment was annoying but it’s what all top managers do. See Ferguson and Mourinho before him. Pep is no better and in fact worse. I guess it comes with the territory but I hope behind closed doors he apologised to Choudhury and gave him some professional advice on calming some of his tackles down.
We move on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with all of this. However as I said earlier, the foul on Salah wasn't just a normal cynical foul to stop an attack, take one for the team, in the dying minutes, it was very rough and had a high chance of causing injury. Most managers would be angry with that, considering it risks denting the chances for winning the title, should the player be out of actions for weeks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That goes some way to explaining Klopp’s reaction, but looking at this objectively you shouldn’t judge a tackle on the basis of who it’s committed against or the impact it might have on a future title challenge. This would just increase the perception that referees bottle tough decisions in favour of bigger clubs and increases the pressure on them to do so.
I would expect the same action if it was Choudhury on Salah as I would if it were Jordan Henderson on Rachid Ghezzal. Just to be clear even if we were lucky enough to be fighting for the title - Ghezzal would not be a player who would be pivotal in achieving it.
posted on 7/10/19
comment by Jobyfox (U4183)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 7 minutes ago
I don’t really see anyone disagreeing here.
Nobody thinks Choudhury should have been sent off but it was a professional foul.
Nobody thinks VAR should have overruled the pen even though it was soft.
Nobody thinks Trent’s tackle was intentional or out of control.
Nothing really to see here.
I suppose the only taking point is whether Klopp was fair to single out a young opposing player for criticism for something he would tell every single one of his players to do. And let me tell you Milner and Henderson do it regularly to the pint of one a game.
Now I don’t actually mind Klopp. His charm and charisma outweigh his negatives and I think he’s good for the game. Yes his comment was annoying but it’s what all top managers do. See Ferguson and Mourinho before him. Pep is no better and in fact worse. I guess it comes with the territory but I hope behind closed doors he apologised to Choudhury and gave him some professional advice on calming some of his tackles down.
We move on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with all of this. However as I said earlier, the foul on Salah wasn't just a normal cynical foul to stop an attack, take one for the team, in the dying minutes, it was very rough and had a high chance of causing injury. Most managers would be angry with that, considering it risks denting the chances for winning the title, should the player be out of actions for weeks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That goes some way to explaining Klopp’s reaction, but looking at this objectively you shouldn’t judge a tackle on the basis of who it’s committed against or the impact it might have on a future title challenge. This would just increase the perception that referees bottle tough decisions in favour of bigger clubs and increases the pressure on them to do so.
I would expect the same action if it was Choudhury on Salah as I would if it were Jordan Henderson on Rachid Ghezzal. Just to be clear even if we were lucky enough to be fighting for the title - Ghezzal would not be a player who would be pivotal in achieving it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair point. So let's say any manager would be angry, considering it risks denting the objective they are aiming towards.
posted on 7/10/19
A scan has revealed Mohamed Salah suffered no major injury following a challenge from Hamza Choudhury in Liverpool’s 2-1 win over Leicester on Saturday, Sky Sports News understands. For all the Liverpool angst it wasn't a studs up leg breaker. Given the reaction makes the shooting of Mane with a Nerf gun look understated.
Joby i know you are not a big fan of me but come you could not of been at the game or sitting next to a Liverpool whilst watching i know no one who was there who contacted who weren't hacked off and not in a love fest with the reds.
posted on 7/10/19
comment by thorneyfox (U5061)
posted 3 hours, 21 minutes ago
Var clearly is not working except for offside.Refs are still as poor, and the var officials will not overrule their mates.
Sat pen was soft, ref was a homer, wanted to give it and his mates with Var will not overrule.
Quite simply Var is not working due to it not being independant of current officials.
It works in Rugby as refs ask Var for advice and decision, they dont give a decision and let Var decide if right or wrong.
Var has not stopped outcome of matches being decided by officials,therefore it is not working as it should.
As said so many times refs not accountable,Var hasnt changed this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason VAR isn’t working is because it’s not used correctly. It’s the clear & obvious that’s the problem, someone has to decide what clear & obvious is & most don’t want to tell the ref he’s got it wrong. In Rugby it’s used to help the ref arrive at the correct decision, not say you were wrong.
posted on 7/10/19
comment by Liecestersport (U22010)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by thorneyfox (U5061)
posted 3 hours, 21 minutes ago
Var clearly is not working except for offside.Refs are still as poor, and the var officials will not overrule their mates.
Sat pen was soft, ref was a homer, wanted to give it and his mates with Var will not overrule.
Quite simply Var is not working due to it not being independant of current officials.
It works in Rugby as refs ask Var for advice and decision, they dont give a decision and let Var decide if right or wrong.
Var has not stopped outcome of matches being decided by officials,therefore it is not working as it should.
As said so many times refs not accountable,Var hasnt changed this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason VAR isn’t working is because it’s not used correctly. It’s the clear & obvious that’s the problem, someone has to decide what clear & obvious is & most don’t want to tell the ref he’s got it wrong. In Rugby it’s used to help the ref arrive at the correct decision, not say you were wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. Either remove the phrase completely or lay out the specifics of what it means.
I'd just remove it. If it's an error it's an error. Clear and obvious is subjective which is what we were trying to get away from in the first place.
I suspect Rodgers was correct in that they wouldn't have overturned the decision had the referee not given it.
posted on 7/10/19
Comment deleted by Article Creator
posted on 7/10/19
Having watched it at both men's and women's world cups where it was constantly getting involved and overturning decisions - sometimes incorrectly - VAR being used as little as possible is a good thing. In the case of Mané, it would only have been worth overturning it if there was either no contact or only contact on a completely different part of the body.
I think most people on the Leicester board know my views of VAR by now, but this weekend demonstrated a good point in its favour: After the challenge and potential injury to Salah, Choudhury has received racism and threats online which are now being investigated. It's not necessarily Liverpool natives who have done this, with Liverpool and Egypt fans both in this country and abroad being touted as possible culprits. All of which raises the point: It would be little wonder if referees are reticent to give high-profile decisions against beloved players or global fanbases if there are potential online death threats against them and their families waiting for them that evening. At least slow-motion technology can take some of that abuse away from them.
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