Orta brought in players like Bouy who in any other world looked every bit the dodgy agent type buy.

Paragraphs are your friend.

My thoughts on Orta now is probably best summoned up by a Thomas Eddison's quote when quizzed about his rumoured 10,000 failures before finally successfully inventing the lightbulb:

'' I have not failed, I have just found 10,000 ways that do not work ""

Mixed bag, Bielsa is the real hero. Imagine how much better we'd be if he could his own players.

Apparently we're after a keeper to compete with Casilla. So why the hell did we sign Meslier on loan to waste a loan spot causing Clarke to miss out. 2 loan slots wasted which could have been better used elsewhere.

Personally I dont think overall his transfer policy has been a success, that's not to say we haven't brought in some good players, or the team isint doing well, however overall I dont think he has done a particularly great job.

The reason I say this is he has brought in far too many players who were not, or probably will not be, good enough for this team.

Even his successes to me should be questioned, not because they are not good players, but because realistically the ones who have been successful are pretty standard.

Take a player like Forshaw for example, he was a well known good standard championship player when we signed him... and lo and behold it turns out he is a good standard championship player for us...

Out of the players that have been successful for us I personally think we could have signed the chief scout from any premiership or championship club and he would have got us those players, or player of a similar standard.

Where he was supposed to excel was unearthing real gems of players, and apart from maybe Janssen and a couple like alioski, who isint a gem, but has certainly been ok, there hasn't been near enough bang for the buck

A lot more misses than hits for me.

The system Orta uses is a good one, the way he uses it, or should I say the choices he makes from it are very very poor.

Here are the players he has signed (I don't count Jansson who was already on loan), many of them already moved on, very very few have proven to be successes, this list is a major reason why we have no money:

Forshaw
Saiz
Roberts
Alioski
Klich
De Bock
Sacko
Cibicki
Grot
Ideguchi
Halme
Ekuban
Wiedwald
Anita
Bouy
Lonergan
Gomes
Dalby
Pennington
Stevens
Borthwick-Johnson
Lasogga
Anotonsson
Bamford
Douglas
Bogusz
Casilla
Harrison
Baker
Blackman
Brown
Davis
White
Costa
Nketiah
Meslier
McCarron
Xeka
Miazek
Edmondson
Siddiqi
Diaz
Rey
Balboa
Strujik
Temenuzhkov
Hosannah
Sarkic
Mujica
Amor

Now, add in that Orta was big reason why we lost Monk who was doing well, Orta was behind TC appointment and then the shocking appointment of Heckingbottom, at a time when Bielsa was actually available.

So does signing Bielsa after having offed up badly with TC and Heck mean Orta is above any sort of criticism?

Far from it, had Orta come in and said, Bielsa is the man for us and they eventually got him that is one thing but that's not what happened, its was third time lucky for him and we are paying through the nose for Bielsa its not as if he has come here doing us a favour because of Orta.

Finally, Andrea the furniture salesman is retained as part of the scouting and analysis setup, a bizarre retention under Orta's watch.

Thanks for the comprehensive information on transfers, Jonty. I was looking for that when I wrote the post. There are enough turkeys there to feed the homeless this Christmas. However, there are, I think, 5 hits, 5 potential hits, and about 10 who have moved on without significant cost to us, out of 50 imports. I don't know how this compare to the way other clubs operate, but whichever way you look at it, there are some serious errors of judgement there. Saiz, De Bock, Ekuban and Grot made serious dents in our finances but they came earlier in his tenure.
I felt badly about how Monk was treated when he had done a great job in building a team with character and pride and, old story, if he had been given the funds in the January window, just as Orta and Radz rolled into town, we may well be in a different position to the one we are in now. I know the takeover didn't happen till the end of the season, but it was happening while Monk was in charge.
Do you think Orta has been less reckless in the last year as Bielsa exerts more influence over incomings and outgoings?

comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 3 hours, 32 minutes ago
The system Orta uses is a good one, the way he uses it, or should I say the choices he makes from it are very very poor.

Here are the players he has signed (I don't count Jansson who was already on loan), many of them already moved on, very very few have proven to be successes, this list is a major reason why we have no money:

Forshaw
Saiz
Roberts
Alioski
Klich
De Bock
Sacko
Cibicki
Grot
Ideguchi
Halme
Ekuban
Wiedwald
Anita
Bouy
Lonergan
Gomes
Dalby
Pennington
Stevens
Borthwick-Johnson
Lasogga
Anotonsson
Bamford
Douglas
Bogusz
Casilla
Harrison
Baker
Blackman
Brown
Davis
White
Costa
Nketiah
Meslier
McCarron
Xeka
Miazek
Edmondson
Siddiqi
Diaz
Rey
Balboa
Strujik
Temenuzhkov
Hosannah
Sarkic
Mujica
Amor

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some decent players in that list. Some $hite too, mind.

Lots of youth players who it may be soon to write off, some youth players who've moved on (some even at a profit).

And who is Xeka? Must have passed me by.

Do you think Orta has been less reckless in the last year as Bielsa exerts more influence over incomings and outgoings?
——-
Loanees baker (a few months), brown (a few months), Blackman (a few months) and harrison cost us 5 mill last season.

We have more loanees this season, which will cost even more and Clarke not played messier not played...

Wage bill is now 40 mill

And finally, we have to pay 15 mil for costa even if we don’t go up.

I think it’s utterly reckless.

comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 45 minutes ago
Do you think Orta has been less reckless in the last year as Bielsa exerts more influence over incomings and outgoings?
——-
Loanees baker (a few months), brown (a few months), Blackman (a few months) and harrison cost us 5 mill last season.

We have more loanees this season, which will cost even more and Clarke not played messier not played...

Wage bill is now 40 mill

And finally, we have to pay 15 mil for costa even if we don’t go up.

I think it’s utterly reckless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't factor in player sales then. Mental.

Jonty, looking at the wage bill for clubs in this division last season, we were not excessive. This is not to say there is no merit in your argument, but perhaps it is the hit-and-miss nature of the business that makes it so costly. Is Orta any worse than others in the same role at other clubs?
http://financialfootballnews.com/championship-2018-finances-wages/

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

What's the alternative? Buying journeymen like McBurney for 20m? Orta's miss list is certainly longer than his hit list...but the big hit, the one that's made all the world of difference, is Bielsa.

So, in answer to the original question, yes, Orta's success has been based on, almost completely, the appointment of Bielsa. Don't know if it was his idea but it was inspired, whatever happens this year. There has been a sea-change in the club's playing style and the fans have been very pleased to see it, after so many years of dross. You hail back to the Garry Monk tenure but that is nothing compared to what Bielsa's pulled off in the short time he's been with us.

Orta struck lucky but I agree with Jonty that his appointments to the playing staff have not been particularly inspiring, and this is aggravated by the poor contract negotiations which seem to have given amazingly long contracts to bit-players. That in turn prevented us from bagging players like James last January - when we really needed him. Instead we got Costa for 15, which seems a very dodgy purchase price to me.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by All the Bielsa ringing (U19827)
posted 6 hours, 2 minutes ago
Jonty, looking at the wage bill for clubs in this division last season, we were not excessive. This is not to say there is no merit in your argument, but perhaps it is the hit-and-miss nature of the business that makes it so costly. Is Orta any worse than others in the same role at other clubs?
http://financialfootballnews.com/championship-2018-finances-wages/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Our wages as now £40m according to AR that’s a massive rise from an already high £31m.

comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 1 day, 5 hours ago
James was a big big miss.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And the single biggest reason we failed to go up. In my opinion, of course...