Villa fan here. Enjoyed that. Much more organised and solid than in our bad period before Xmas. Mings return played a big part, plus Dean Smith going for 3 at the back. Main problem is our defensive midfielders Luiz and Nakamba always have a mistake in them, like dawdling on the ball when they're being closed down.
Looking forwards to the return. By that time we may have added needed reinforcements to our squad.
Fair ratings Dunge.
No denying Tielemans and Chilwell were massively disappointing. Forget where Tielemans played - he forgot how to pass and control a football. He’s been poor for a while now.
Mentioning poor, I reviewed the match thread and BS has called it right I’m criticising Chilwell. Poor on the goal and poor throughout. Poor.
My only disagreement would be Perez. I was screaming for him to be replaced by Ian. As soon as he came on our front two looked functional. I’m starting to lose faith Pérez will come good but I’m willing to wait longer.
Overall, Rodgers is right in claiming responsibility for the wrong people in the wrong set up. We looked so much better when Choudhury came on. He is going to be vital in the coming weeks as Ndidi recovers.
Generally agree Dunge, except i thought Praet played well and was on of the few midfielders in the first half who actually showed for the ball and passed it well. I thought Perez had one of his best games for us.
Praet strikes me as a player who plays to the level of the team but doesn't massively influence things and doesn't stamp his authority on proceedings. It's very difficult to get away from the comparisons with Andy King, particularly when, like yesterday, almost all of his passes were backwards or sideways. It's all very well showing for the ball but the times he had the chance to look up and step forward with it, he didn't - opting instead for the safe option of turning back and knocking it back to (usually) Soyuncu. When the opposition sets up 5-4-1 against you, you've got to be more ambitious at times and I thought he was rightly subbed at half time. Tielemans might have conceded possession a lot in the first half, but at least he was trying forward passes, and with Choudhury on it gave him the chance to push up the field a bit.
Choudhury has to start against Southampton at the weekend.
Can’t argue much with the ratings. A few comments on individuals:
N’didi: Obviously a big miss for us. People often underestimate the influence a decent defensive midfielder has on the attacking aspect of play. N’didi is so often the outlet ball from defence, which stops the ball moving from side to side.
Chilwell: I’m afraid his deficiencies are exposed when we play him as a wing back. He’s fine as an attacking full back when he has another wide player to create overloads in the wide positions. When he’s a wing back his responsibility is to either drive forward or put the ball into the box. He’s still not got this ability in his locker and just looks for the pass backwards, which allows the defending team to regroup. Poor in this formation I’m afraid.
Tielemans: I’ve seen a lot of criticism, but we forget how young he is. He clearly isn’t suited to playing deep. There is a trade off when you play both him and Maddison in midfield, which is why a disrupter (Hamza/Wilf) becomes more important.
Praet: I have to agree with DM’s comments here. He’s in danger of being the new Andy King or Matty James. A capable sitting midfielder, but not one who is going to drive a side forward when it’s slightly off form.
Perez: I actually thought he did ok. The problem is he often looks ok, but there isn’t an end product. It’s that and a similar problem with Barnes that makes Brendan think he’s got to keep tweaking the formation.
Ian: I think it’s a statement in itself that I was pleased when he entered the field of play. He clearly doesn’t need a sat nav to find the goal like those others mentioned. A year ago I’d have inwardly groaned to see him coming on. What a transformation!
Hamza: I’m not convinced by Choudhury. I’m not sure yet that he entirely knows what sort of midfielder he wants to be. Obviously had a few issues with poor tackles earlier in the season. But this was a really mature performance and a game changing one. It was actually really comforting to see his reassuring bonce pop up in different parts of the field last night. More of this and he can become the next N’didi. Done enough to get the nod for the next game at least.
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
Praet strikes me as a player who plays to the level of the team but doesn't massively influence things and doesn't stamp his authority on proceedings. It's very difficult to get away from the comparisons with Andy King, particularly when, like yesterday, almost all of his passes were backwards or sideways. It's all very well showing for the ball but the times he had the chance to look up and step forward with it, he didn't - opting instead for the safe option of turning back and knocking it back to (usually) Soyuncu. When the opposition sets up 5-4-1 against you, you've got to be more ambitious at times and I thought he was rightly subbed at half time. Tielemans might have conceded possession a lot in the first half, but at least he was trying forward passes, and with Choudhury on it gave him the chance to push up the field a bit.
Choudhury has to start against Southampton at the weekend.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Totally totally agree on Praet yesterday Dunge. But we have seen him be more progressive on the ball in his more forward roles. I think he and Tielemans were hugely stifled by our formation and Villa’s deep block.
At least he could pass to a man though unlike Tielemans!!
Good to see what a real defender in Fuchs looks like next to Chilwell as well. He went back to looking like he’s not going to develop again. So frustrating.
Ian for Pérez was the right sub. Why? Because Perez wasn’t good enough at the things he is supposed to be doing. Nacho comes on, links with Vardy - goal.
I said I wanted him on for Pérez and that was a brilliant sub. As was Choudhury.
I think what was most promising for Iheanacho yesterday was the evidence of a killer instinct having returned. As soon as Choudhury got a boot in for his challenge, off he goes, like he can smell the chance coming to him. Iheanacho of last season would have either been a couple of seconds behind the play or nervous to get into a scoring position.
It does seem that he needs to improve his stamina if he's going to get full games regularly - 60 minutes looks like his limit. But that's something for him to work on over time and it's good to see him looking like a valued part of the squad instead of an afterthought. There's nothing wrong with him being an impact player for now, notably because he's actually making a significant impact. And of course he's never had any issue linking up with Vardy unlike Slimani.
He actually to me looks like a starter in a 3-5-2 Dunge.
Certainly ahead of Pérez or anyone else in a two.
Obviously different when Vardy is up top alone. But in a diamond or back 3, Ian needs to start and Perez needs to start showing up.
The point is: If you do start him in that sort of formation then you'll likely have to sub him after an hour.
A few points:
Tielemans gets 6 from me, yes he lost the ball a lot but that was mainly due to him actually trying to penetrate a packed defence with positive quick forward passes, unlike most of the rest of the team.
Fuchs gets a 6 from me, doesn't look convincing when asked to play CB, a frightening prospect if one of the two incumbents gets injured/suspended and he gets asked to fill in a CB pairing.
I might have given Vards a 7.
There is one thing that is absolutely outstanding about the difference between Claude and Brendan, the latter has managed to get Vardy firing on all cylinders, and, whisper it quietly, seems to be working his magic with what many would have thought a hopeless case, Ian.
Rodgers also seems to have the happy knack of making subs which affect the game - Ian scoring and Hamza being instrumental in that. I'd have liked seeing him bringing Barnes on which would have given us a different threat.
Tielemans gets a 4 from me, steadily going backwards and last night was another poor performance.
comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 18 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
Praet strikes me as a player who plays to the level of the team but doesn't massively influence things and doesn't stamp his authority on proceedings. It's very difficult to get away from the comparisons with Andy King, particularly when, like yesterday, almost all of his passes were backwards or sideways. It's all very well showing for the ball but the times he had the chance to look up and step forward with it, he didn't - opting instead for the safe option of turning back and knocking it back to (usually) Soyuncu. When the opposition sets up 5-4-1 against you, you've got to be more ambitious at times and I thought he was rightly subbed at half time. Tielemans might have conceded possession a lot in the first half, but at least he was trying forward passes, and with Choudhury on it gave him the chance to push up the field a bit.
Choudhury has to start against Southampton at the weekend.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Totally totally agree on Praet yesterday Dunge. But we have seen him be more progressive on the ball in his more forward roles. I think he and Tielemans were hugely stifled by our formation and Villa’s deep block.
At least he could pass to a man though unlike Tielemans!!
Good to see what a real defender in Fuchs looks like next to Chilwell as well. He went back to looking like he’s not going to develop again. So frustrating.
Ian for Pérez was the right sub. Why? Because Perez wasn’t good enough at the things he is supposed to be doing. Nacho comes on, links with Vardy - goal.
I said I wanted him on for Pérez and that was a brilliant sub. As was Choudhury.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't agree about Perez, what about the ball he played through for Vardy which 9/10 he scores? Perez in the no.10 role is his perfect position and when he's there he makes things happen. He's a victim of being played out of position and is at least more effective out of position than Maddison, he's useless out wide.
comment by Jobyfox (U4183)
posted 19 hours, 17 minutes ago
Can’t argue much with the ratings. A few comments on individuals:
N’didi: Obviously a big miss for us. People often underestimate the influence a decent defensive midfielder has on the attacking aspect of play. N’didi is so often the outlet ball from defence, which stops the ball moving from side to side.
Chilwell: I’m afraid his deficiencies are exposed when we play him as a wing back. He’s fine as an attacking full back when he has another wide player to create overloads in the wide positions. When he’s a wing back his responsibility is to either drive forward or put the ball into the box. He’s still not got this ability in his locker and just looks for the pass backwards, which allows the defending team to regroup. Poor in this formation I’m afraid.
Tielemans: I’ve seen a lot of criticism, but we forget how young he is. He clearly isn’t suited to playing deep. There is a trade off when you play both him and Maddison in midfield, which is why a disrupter (Hamza/Wilf) becomes more important.
Praet: I have to agree with DM’s comments here. He’s in danger of being the new Andy King or Matty James. A capable sitting midfielder, but not one who is going to drive a side forward when it’s slightly off form.
Perez: I actually thought he did ok. The problem is he often looks ok, but there isn’t an end product. It’s that and a similar problem with Barnes that makes Brendan think he’s got to keep tweaking the formation.
Ian: I think it’s a statement in itself that I was pleased when he entered the field of play. He clearly doesn’t need a sat nav to find the goal like those others mentioned. A year ago I’d have inwardly groaned to see him coming on. What a transformation!
Hamza: I’m not convinced by Choudhury. I’m not sure yet that he entirely knows what sort of midfielder he wants to be. Obviously had a few issues with poor tackles earlier in the season. But this was a really mature performance and a game changing one. It was actually really comforting to see his reassuring bonce pop up in different parts of the field last night. More of this and he can become the next N’didi. Done enough to get the nod for the next game at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about Perez' through ball to Vardy? That was a brilliant ball and Vardy should have buried it. I wouldn't say five goals and five assists is no end product personally. With Maddison potentially out I'm looking forward to seeing Perez in his preferred position.
I understand Perez’s preferred position is upfront, isn’t that where he played for Newcastle as a no.9? I think he’s better behind Vardy I agree, but you can’t away from how wasteful he is in front of goal at times. His finishing of easy chances has been pretty poor - I can think of a few golden opportunities he’s fluffed in recent games.
He’s scored 5 goals but I think 2 of those game against a terrible Southampton defence, he’s been a bit hit and miss in front of goal for me and I’d be concerned with him in Maddison’s role unless that improves. Yes a no.10 predominantly creates chances - but Maddison has scored 9 goals this season and most of those have been outside the box
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 11 minutes ago
I understand Perez’s preferred position is upfront, isn’t that where he played for Newcastle as a no.9? I think he’s better behind Vardy I agree, but you can’t away from how wasteful he is in front of goal at times. His finishing of easy chances has been pretty poor - I can think of a few golden opportunities he’s fluffed in recent games.
He’s scored 5 goals but I think 2 of those game against a terrible Southampton defence, he’s been a bit hit and miss in front of goal for me and I’d be concerned with him in Maddison’s role unless that improves. Yes a no.10 predominantly creates chances - but Maddison has scored 9 goals this season and most of those have been outside the box
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He played as a second striker for Newcastle behind Rondon so essentially no.10. Yeah he misses a few chances but equally how many has Maddison missed? Off the top of my head away at Chelsea, away at United, a couple against Villa and I'm sure there will be more. Yes he's got nine goals but he should be on around 15 by now. Even Vardy has missed a few you'd bank on him scoring, he should have had a hat-trick against Villa and let's not start on Barnes. I wouldn't want anyone else playing no. 10 in Maddison's absence.
One pass does not make a good game for me Arro.
Perez isn’t as good as Maddison in the number 10 role, is wasteful in front of goal, and isn’t aggressive enough to player Rodgers pressing style.
I agree Pérez is better as a 10 than our wide. But I’d say he’s ‘ok’ at one and not very good at the other.
I’m still willing to give him more time, but he has to do better for me. At the minute, Ian is affecting games where Barnes and Perez are struggling to do so.
Definite argument to go 3-5-2 and drop the need for wide forwards. Gets Tielemans and Maddison central and allows our wing backs to get up the pitch - especially Pereira.
comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
One pass does not make a good game for me Arro.
Perez isn’t as good as Maddison in the number 10 role, is wasteful in front of goal, and isn’t aggressive enough to player Rodgers pressing style.
I agree Pérez is better as a 10 than our wide. But I’d say he’s ‘ok’ at one and not very good at the other.
I’m still willing to give him more time, but he has to do better for me. At the minute, Ian is affecting games where Barnes and Perez are struggling to do so.
Definite argument to go 3-5-2 and drop the need for wide forwards. Gets Tielemans and Maddison central and allows our wing backs to get up the pitch - especially Pereira.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ian was also written off as not good enough, so was Ricardo. It's a common theme with our fans if players don't show us what they're capable of for 90 mins in every game from their first. Mendy was another one written off. I get pretty fed up with it to be honest, players need time to adapt and most fans don't allow them any time, just slate them and expect.
comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 1 hour, 26 minutes ago
One pass does not make a good game for me Arro.
Perez isn’t as good as Maddison in the number 10 role, is wasteful in front of goal, and isn’t aggressive enough to player Rodgers pressing style.
I agree Pérez is better as a 10 than our wide. But I’d say he’s ‘ok’ at one and not very good at the other.
I’m still willing to give him more time, but he has to do better for me. At the minute, Ian is affecting games where Barnes and Perez are struggling to do so.
Definite argument to go 3-5-2 and drop the need for wide forwards. Gets Tielemans and Maddison central and allows our wing backs to get up the pitch - especially Pereira.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also his one pass to Vardy came when he was in the middle, it's not like Maddison plays pass after pass, all game every game. It's the odd one here and there and that's no different to Perez. Tielemans is the one who needs to be dropped, he can't make a five yard pass at the moment, he's in awful form.
I think there’s been a definite improvement in Perez recently, particularly with regard to creating chances for others. Earlier in the season he wasn’t creating anything, whereas over the last few games he’s picked up several assists. As Arro says, he would have had another on Wednesday if Vardy had been match sharp.
What’s frustrating is that it seems he’s needed a change of role to achieve this. What’s even more frustrating is that his stats at Newcastle not just comparable on the wing as compared to as a 10, but even slightly better. We could do with him recapturing that sort of form as a right forward because that would give the team better balance.
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 42 minutes ago
I think there’s been a definite improvement in Perez recently, particularly with regard to creating chances for others. Earlier in the season he wasn’t creating anything, whereas over the last few games he’s picked up several assists. As Arro says, he would have had another on Wednesday if Vardy had been match sharp.
What’s frustrating is that it seems he’s needed a change of role to achieve this. What’s even more frustrating is that his stats at Newcastle not just comparable on the wing as compared to as a 10, but even slightly better. We could do with him recapturing that sort of form as a right forward because that would give the team better balance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Imagine how frustrating it is for him being on the wing when he's no.10. To my knowledge he didn't play out wide for Newcastle, he was a a second striker behind Rondon.
We don't expect anything from Maddison when he's out wide and he does absolutely nothing when he's out of position so I'm not sure why Perez is expected to be like Mahrez on the wing. We need better wingers, the likes of Ziyech and Thauvin are what we should be looking at now, proper quality.
I don’t have access to them now, but I recall seeing some stats when we bought him that he split his time between right wing and no 10 at Newcastle. Certainly we bought him to play on the right.
I think there is an element of don’t fix what isn’t broken.
We’ve played pretty well and got to be the 2nd best team in the country by playing 4-1-4-1 or variations of a theme. The ethos behind this should be playing our best players in their best positions. N’didi as the disrupter, Maddison in the central position as a no. 10 and Vardy as the main striker.
That means other players, who are less influential, have to fit where they can: Barnes and Perez as the wide strikers or wingers rotated with the likes of Albrighton and Gray. Perez might get the opportunity in a central role if Maddison or Vardy is out - similar to Ian in a more central role.
We shouldn’t be tearing up a successful format to accommodate peripheral players. We need to buy better in those positions. The alternative being that those players should impact enough when they get opportunities to demonstrate why we should change the formation to accommodate them. I don’t think I’ve seen enough evidence of the latter so they should stay where they are or act as cover for players in their preferred role.
4-D-4 would dramatically expose us against better teams who play with width. Also, limited exposure to 5 or 3 at the Back makes us less effective for the reasons stated previously. Chilwell looks lost in this formation and it also limits Ricardo in my view who looks far better running from deep.
I, personally, think we look far more dangerous with Barnes and Perez out wide rather than Chilwell and Ricardo (or, more accurately, in addition to the full backs) - despite the limitations of the former two. I also don’t think we get enough benefit defensively of changing to 3 - on the caveat that we have N’didi or Hamza playing as the screen for the back four. Despite Ian’s form I wouldn’t start him as you have to move others out of position to accommodate him, although he’s become a fine impact substitute.
comment by ArroinLestah (U22188)
posted 3 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
One pass does not make a good game for me Arro.
Perez isn’t as good as Maddison in the number 10 role, is wasteful in front of goal, and isn’t aggressive enough to player Rodgers pressing style.
I agree Pérez is better as a 10 than our wide. But I’d say he’s ‘ok’ at one and not very good at the other.
I’m still willing to give him more time, but he has to do better for me. At the minute, Ian is affecting games where Barnes and Perez are struggling to do so.
Definite argument to go 3-5-2 and drop the need for wide forwards. Gets Tielemans and Maddison central and allows our wing backs to get up the pitch - especially Pereira.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ian was also written off as not good enough, so was Ricardo. It's a common theme with our fans if players don't show us what they're capable of for 90 mins in every game from their first. Mendy was another one written off. I get pretty fed up with it to be honest, players need time to adapt and most fans don't allow them any time, just slate them and expect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ian was written off for good reason - he was absolutely atrocious for about 18 months. I mean he couldn’t even control a football nevermind taking a decent chance. Can’t blame fans for being frustrated over a player who cost us £25m being as shocking as he was for so long - and he got plenty of chances from the bench and in cup games as well.
I agree about fans writing some players off early (we all do it), I’ve always tried to stick up for Gray because I think players should be given an opportunity - as long as they are showing signs of improvement - however long that may take
Perez is a little different though. He’s not a teenager. He hasn’t arrived from a different league and even coming in from the right, his finishing needs to improve. I’m not saying he’s a bad player, but I don’t see him as being completely nullified when he’s played out wide and that doesn’t excuse fluffing really easy chances
But yeah I agree, we shouldn’t write players off way too early. Perez should be given the season and played more in his preferred role (which is difficult as we have Maddison there)
If we are going to apply that logic to Perez then we should apply it to Tielemans as well. He’s in a bad run of form - doesn’t make him a bad player and he’s still very very young
Interesting thoughts. I was going to heatedly agree with Arro about us being too quick to write off our players then was so disappointed to see a subsequent comment about dropping Tielemans! Not that I'm arguing he has been struggling somewhat recently (Tielemans not Arro!).
We are indeed all guilty but I reckon Tielemans is getting too much stick for Saturday, first half in particular when he did appear to be one of the few trying to be positive. I'm not suggesting he had a good game btw.
Perez seems to be quickly picked on I suppose because he's 'too lightweight', 'lazy' or 'cost £30M' - take your pick.
It seems anybody who doesn't immediately become the Leicester Messi/Ronaldo is straight into the firing line.
Barnes doesn't usually get as much criticism, despite being absolutely hapless all season in front of goal - is this because he gets more leeway being 'one of our own' (yes I know he's young and only just in the side but so is Tielemans)?
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Player ratings vs. Villa (League Cup)
Page 1 of 2
posted on 9/1/20
Villa fan here. Enjoyed that. Much more organised and solid than in our bad period before Xmas. Mings return played a big part, plus Dean Smith going for 3 at the back. Main problem is our defensive midfielders Luiz and Nakamba always have a mistake in them, like dawdling on the ball when they're being closed down.
Looking forwards to the return. By that time we may have added needed reinforcements to our squad.
posted on 9/1/20
Fair ratings Dunge.
No denying Tielemans and Chilwell were massively disappointing. Forget where Tielemans played - he forgot how to pass and control a football. He’s been poor for a while now.
Mentioning poor, I reviewed the match thread and BS has called it right I’m criticising Chilwell. Poor on the goal and poor throughout. Poor.
My only disagreement would be Perez. I was screaming for him to be replaced by Ian. As soon as he came on our front two looked functional. I’m starting to lose faith Pérez will come good but I’m willing to wait longer.
Overall, Rodgers is right in claiming responsibility for the wrong people in the wrong set up. We looked so much better when Choudhury came on. He is going to be vital in the coming weeks as Ndidi recovers.
posted on 9/1/20
Generally agree Dunge, except i thought Praet played well and was on of the few midfielders in the first half who actually showed for the ball and passed it well. I thought Perez had one of his best games for us.
posted on 9/1/20
Praet strikes me as a player who plays to the level of the team but doesn't massively influence things and doesn't stamp his authority on proceedings. It's very difficult to get away from the comparisons with Andy King, particularly when, like yesterday, almost all of his passes were backwards or sideways. It's all very well showing for the ball but the times he had the chance to look up and step forward with it, he didn't - opting instead for the safe option of turning back and knocking it back to (usually) Soyuncu. When the opposition sets up 5-4-1 against you, you've got to be more ambitious at times and I thought he was rightly subbed at half time. Tielemans might have conceded possession a lot in the first half, but at least he was trying forward passes, and with Choudhury on it gave him the chance to push up the field a bit.
Choudhury has to start against Southampton at the weekend.
posted on 9/1/20
Can’t argue much with the ratings. A few comments on individuals:
N’didi: Obviously a big miss for us. People often underestimate the influence a decent defensive midfielder has on the attacking aspect of play. N’didi is so often the outlet ball from defence, which stops the ball moving from side to side.
Chilwell: I’m afraid his deficiencies are exposed when we play him as a wing back. He’s fine as an attacking full back when he has another wide player to create overloads in the wide positions. When he’s a wing back his responsibility is to either drive forward or put the ball into the box. He’s still not got this ability in his locker and just looks for the pass backwards, which allows the defending team to regroup. Poor in this formation I’m afraid.
Tielemans: I’ve seen a lot of criticism, but we forget how young he is. He clearly isn’t suited to playing deep. There is a trade off when you play both him and Maddison in midfield, which is why a disrupter (Hamza/Wilf) becomes more important.
Praet: I have to agree with DM’s comments here. He’s in danger of being the new Andy King or Matty James. A capable sitting midfielder, but not one who is going to drive a side forward when it’s slightly off form.
Perez: I actually thought he did ok. The problem is he often looks ok, but there isn’t an end product. It’s that and a similar problem with Barnes that makes Brendan think he’s got to keep tweaking the formation.
Ian: I think it’s a statement in itself that I was pleased when he entered the field of play. He clearly doesn’t need a sat nav to find the goal like those others mentioned. A year ago I’d have inwardly groaned to see him coming on. What a transformation!
Hamza: I’m not convinced by Choudhury. I’m not sure yet that he entirely knows what sort of midfielder he wants to be. Obviously had a few issues with poor tackles earlier in the season. But this was a really mature performance and a game changing one. It was actually really comforting to see his reassuring bonce pop up in different parts of the field last night. More of this and he can become the next N’didi. Done enough to get the nod for the next game at least.
posted on 9/1/20
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
Praet strikes me as a player who plays to the level of the team but doesn't massively influence things and doesn't stamp his authority on proceedings. It's very difficult to get away from the comparisons with Andy King, particularly when, like yesterday, almost all of his passes were backwards or sideways. It's all very well showing for the ball but the times he had the chance to look up and step forward with it, he didn't - opting instead for the safe option of turning back and knocking it back to (usually) Soyuncu. When the opposition sets up 5-4-1 against you, you've got to be more ambitious at times and I thought he was rightly subbed at half time. Tielemans might have conceded possession a lot in the first half, but at least he was trying forward passes, and with Choudhury on it gave him the chance to push up the field a bit.
Choudhury has to start against Southampton at the weekend.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Totally totally agree on Praet yesterday Dunge. But we have seen him be more progressive on the ball in his more forward roles. I think he and Tielemans were hugely stifled by our formation and Villa’s deep block.
At least he could pass to a man though unlike Tielemans!!
Good to see what a real defender in Fuchs looks like next to Chilwell as well. He went back to looking like he’s not going to develop again. So frustrating.
Ian for Pérez was the right sub. Why? Because Perez wasn’t good enough at the things he is supposed to be doing. Nacho comes on, links with Vardy - goal.
I said I wanted him on for Pérez and that was a brilliant sub. As was Choudhury.
posted on 9/1/20
I think what was most promising for Iheanacho yesterday was the evidence of a killer instinct having returned. As soon as Choudhury got a boot in for his challenge, off he goes, like he can smell the chance coming to him. Iheanacho of last season would have either been a couple of seconds behind the play or nervous to get into a scoring position.
It does seem that he needs to improve his stamina if he's going to get full games regularly - 60 minutes looks like his limit. But that's something for him to work on over time and it's good to see him looking like a valued part of the squad instead of an afterthought. There's nothing wrong with him being an impact player for now, notably because he's actually making a significant impact. And of course he's never had any issue linking up with Vardy unlike Slimani.
posted on 9/1/20
He actually to me looks like a starter in a 3-5-2 Dunge.
Certainly ahead of Pérez or anyone else in a two.
Obviously different when Vardy is up top alone. But in a diamond or back 3, Ian needs to start and Perez needs to start showing up.
posted on 9/1/20
The point is: If you do start him in that sort of formation then you'll likely have to sub him after an hour.
posted on 9/1/20
A few points:
Tielemans gets 6 from me, yes he lost the ball a lot but that was mainly due to him actually trying to penetrate a packed defence with positive quick forward passes, unlike most of the rest of the team.
Fuchs gets a 6 from me, doesn't look convincing when asked to play CB, a frightening prospect if one of the two incumbents gets injured/suspended and he gets asked to fill in a CB pairing.
I might have given Vards a 7.
There is one thing that is absolutely outstanding about the difference between Claude and Brendan, the latter has managed to get Vardy firing on all cylinders, and, whisper it quietly, seems to be working his magic with what many would have thought a hopeless case, Ian.
Rodgers also seems to have the happy knack of making subs which affect the game - Ian scoring and Hamza being instrumental in that. I'd have liked seeing him bringing Barnes on which would have given us a different threat.
posted on 9/1/20
Tielemans gets a 4 from me, steadily going backwards and last night was another poor performance.
posted on 10/1/20
comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 18 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
Praet strikes me as a player who plays to the level of the team but doesn't massively influence things and doesn't stamp his authority on proceedings. It's very difficult to get away from the comparisons with Andy King, particularly when, like yesterday, almost all of his passes were backwards or sideways. It's all very well showing for the ball but the times he had the chance to look up and step forward with it, he didn't - opting instead for the safe option of turning back and knocking it back to (usually) Soyuncu. When the opposition sets up 5-4-1 against you, you've got to be more ambitious at times and I thought he was rightly subbed at half time. Tielemans might have conceded possession a lot in the first half, but at least he was trying forward passes, and with Choudhury on it gave him the chance to push up the field a bit.
Choudhury has to start against Southampton at the weekend.
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Totally totally agree on Praet yesterday Dunge. But we have seen him be more progressive on the ball in his more forward roles. I think he and Tielemans were hugely stifled by our formation and Villa’s deep block.
At least he could pass to a man though unlike Tielemans!!
Good to see what a real defender in Fuchs looks like next to Chilwell as well. He went back to looking like he’s not going to develop again. So frustrating.
Ian for Pérez was the right sub. Why? Because Perez wasn’t good enough at the things he is supposed to be doing. Nacho comes on, links with Vardy - goal.
I said I wanted him on for Pérez and that was a brilliant sub. As was Choudhury.
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Don't agree about Perez, what about the ball he played through for Vardy which 9/10 he scores? Perez in the no.10 role is his perfect position and when he's there he makes things happen. He's a victim of being played out of position and is at least more effective out of position than Maddison, he's useless out wide.
posted on 10/1/20
comment by Jobyfox (U4183)
posted 19 hours, 17 minutes ago
Can’t argue much with the ratings. A few comments on individuals:
N’didi: Obviously a big miss for us. People often underestimate the influence a decent defensive midfielder has on the attacking aspect of play. N’didi is so often the outlet ball from defence, which stops the ball moving from side to side.
Chilwell: I’m afraid his deficiencies are exposed when we play him as a wing back. He’s fine as an attacking full back when he has another wide player to create overloads in the wide positions. When he’s a wing back his responsibility is to either drive forward or put the ball into the box. He’s still not got this ability in his locker and just looks for the pass backwards, which allows the defending team to regroup. Poor in this formation I’m afraid.
Tielemans: I’ve seen a lot of criticism, but we forget how young he is. He clearly isn’t suited to playing deep. There is a trade off when you play both him and Maddison in midfield, which is why a disrupter (Hamza/Wilf) becomes more important.
Praet: I have to agree with DM’s comments here. He’s in danger of being the new Andy King or Matty James. A capable sitting midfielder, but not one who is going to drive a side forward when it’s slightly off form.
Perez: I actually thought he did ok. The problem is he often looks ok, but there isn’t an end product. It’s that and a similar problem with Barnes that makes Brendan think he’s got to keep tweaking the formation.
Ian: I think it’s a statement in itself that I was pleased when he entered the field of play. He clearly doesn’t need a sat nav to find the goal like those others mentioned. A year ago I’d have inwardly groaned to see him coming on. What a transformation!
Hamza: I’m not convinced by Choudhury. I’m not sure yet that he entirely knows what sort of midfielder he wants to be. Obviously had a few issues with poor tackles earlier in the season. But this was a really mature performance and a game changing one. It was actually really comforting to see his reassuring bonce pop up in different parts of the field last night. More of this and he can become the next N’didi. Done enough to get the nod for the next game at least.
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What about Perez' through ball to Vardy? That was a brilliant ball and Vardy should have buried it. I wouldn't say five goals and five assists is no end product personally. With Maddison potentially out I'm looking forward to seeing Perez in his preferred position.
posted on 10/1/20
I understand Perez’s preferred position is upfront, isn’t that where he played for Newcastle as a no.9? I think he’s better behind Vardy I agree, but you can’t away from how wasteful he is in front of goal at times. His finishing of easy chances has been pretty poor - I can think of a few golden opportunities he’s fluffed in recent games.
He’s scored 5 goals but I think 2 of those game against a terrible Southampton defence, he’s been a bit hit and miss in front of goal for me and I’d be concerned with him in Maddison’s role unless that improves. Yes a no.10 predominantly creates chances - but Maddison has scored 9 goals this season and most of those have been outside the box
posted on 10/1/20
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 11 minutes ago
I understand Perez’s preferred position is upfront, isn’t that where he played for Newcastle as a no.9? I think he’s better behind Vardy I agree, but you can’t away from how wasteful he is in front of goal at times. His finishing of easy chances has been pretty poor - I can think of a few golden opportunities he’s fluffed in recent games.
He’s scored 5 goals but I think 2 of those game against a terrible Southampton defence, he’s been a bit hit and miss in front of goal for me and I’d be concerned with him in Maddison’s role unless that improves. Yes a no.10 predominantly creates chances - but Maddison has scored 9 goals this season and most of those have been outside the box
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He played as a second striker for Newcastle behind Rondon so essentially no.10. Yeah he misses a few chances but equally how many has Maddison missed? Off the top of my head away at Chelsea, away at United, a couple against Villa and I'm sure there will be more. Yes he's got nine goals but he should be on around 15 by now. Even Vardy has missed a few you'd bank on him scoring, he should have had a hat-trick against Villa and let's not start on Barnes. I wouldn't want anyone else playing no. 10 in Maddison's absence.
posted on 10/1/20
One pass does not make a good game for me Arro.
Perez isn’t as good as Maddison in the number 10 role, is wasteful in front of goal, and isn’t aggressive enough to player Rodgers pressing style.
I agree Pérez is better as a 10 than our wide. But I’d say he’s ‘ok’ at one and not very good at the other.
I’m still willing to give him more time, but he has to do better for me. At the minute, Ian is affecting games where Barnes and Perez are struggling to do so.
Definite argument to go 3-5-2 and drop the need for wide forwards. Gets Tielemans and Maddison central and allows our wing backs to get up the pitch - especially Pereira.
posted on 10/1/20
comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
One pass does not make a good game for me Arro.
Perez isn’t as good as Maddison in the number 10 role, is wasteful in front of goal, and isn’t aggressive enough to player Rodgers pressing style.
I agree Pérez is better as a 10 than our wide. But I’d say he’s ‘ok’ at one and not very good at the other.
I’m still willing to give him more time, but he has to do better for me. At the minute, Ian is affecting games where Barnes and Perez are struggling to do so.
Definite argument to go 3-5-2 and drop the need for wide forwards. Gets Tielemans and Maddison central and allows our wing backs to get up the pitch - especially Pereira.
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Ian was also written off as not good enough, so was Ricardo. It's a common theme with our fans if players don't show us what they're capable of for 90 mins in every game from their first. Mendy was another one written off. I get pretty fed up with it to be honest, players need time to adapt and most fans don't allow them any time, just slate them and expect.
posted on 10/1/20
comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 1 hour, 26 minutes ago
One pass does not make a good game for me Arro.
Perez isn’t as good as Maddison in the number 10 role, is wasteful in front of goal, and isn’t aggressive enough to player Rodgers pressing style.
I agree Pérez is better as a 10 than our wide. But I’d say he’s ‘ok’ at one and not very good at the other.
I’m still willing to give him more time, but he has to do better for me. At the minute, Ian is affecting games where Barnes and Perez are struggling to do so.
Definite argument to go 3-5-2 and drop the need for wide forwards. Gets Tielemans and Maddison central and allows our wing backs to get up the pitch - especially Pereira.
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Also his one pass to Vardy came when he was in the middle, it's not like Maddison plays pass after pass, all game every game. It's the odd one here and there and that's no different to Perez. Tielemans is the one who needs to be dropped, he can't make a five yard pass at the moment, he's in awful form.
posted on 10/1/20
I think there’s been a definite improvement in Perez recently, particularly with regard to creating chances for others. Earlier in the season he wasn’t creating anything, whereas over the last few games he’s picked up several assists. As Arro says, he would have had another on Wednesday if Vardy had been match sharp.
What’s frustrating is that it seems he’s needed a change of role to achieve this. What’s even more frustrating is that his stats at Newcastle not just comparable on the wing as compared to as a 10, but even slightly better. We could do with him recapturing that sort of form as a right forward because that would give the team better balance.
posted on 10/1/20
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 42 minutes ago
I think there’s been a definite improvement in Perez recently, particularly with regard to creating chances for others. Earlier in the season he wasn’t creating anything, whereas over the last few games he’s picked up several assists. As Arro says, he would have had another on Wednesday if Vardy had been match sharp.
What’s frustrating is that it seems he’s needed a change of role to achieve this. What’s even more frustrating is that his stats at Newcastle not just comparable on the wing as compared to as a 10, but even slightly better. We could do with him recapturing that sort of form as a right forward because that would give the team better balance.
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Imagine how frustrating it is for him being on the wing when he's no.10. To my knowledge he didn't play out wide for Newcastle, he was a a second striker behind Rondon.
We don't expect anything from Maddison when he's out wide and he does absolutely nothing when he's out of position so I'm not sure why Perez is expected to be like Mahrez on the wing. We need better wingers, the likes of Ziyech and Thauvin are what we should be looking at now, proper quality.
posted on 10/1/20
I don’t have access to them now, but I recall seeing some stats when we bought him that he split his time between right wing and no 10 at Newcastle. Certainly we bought him to play on the right.
posted on 10/1/20
I think there is an element of don’t fix what isn’t broken.
We’ve played pretty well and got to be the 2nd best team in the country by playing 4-1-4-1 or variations of a theme. The ethos behind this should be playing our best players in their best positions. N’didi as the disrupter, Maddison in the central position as a no. 10 and Vardy as the main striker.
That means other players, who are less influential, have to fit where they can: Barnes and Perez as the wide strikers or wingers rotated with the likes of Albrighton and Gray. Perez might get the opportunity in a central role if Maddison or Vardy is out - similar to Ian in a more central role.
We shouldn’t be tearing up a successful format to accommodate peripheral players. We need to buy better in those positions. The alternative being that those players should impact enough when they get opportunities to demonstrate why we should change the formation to accommodate them. I don’t think I’ve seen enough evidence of the latter so they should stay where they are or act as cover for players in their preferred role.
4-D-4 would dramatically expose us against better teams who play with width. Also, limited exposure to 5 or 3 at the Back makes us less effective for the reasons stated previously. Chilwell looks lost in this formation and it also limits Ricardo in my view who looks far better running from deep.
I, personally, think we look far more dangerous with Barnes and Perez out wide rather than Chilwell and Ricardo (or, more accurately, in addition to the full backs) - despite the limitations of the former two. I also don’t think we get enough benefit defensively of changing to 3 - on the caveat that we have N’didi or Hamza playing as the screen for the back four. Despite Ian’s form I wouldn’t start him as you have to move others out of position to accommodate him, although he’s become a fine impact substitute.
posted on 10/1/20
comment by ArroinLestah (U22188)
posted 3 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
One pass does not make a good game for me Arro.
Perez isn’t as good as Maddison in the number 10 role, is wasteful in front of goal, and isn’t aggressive enough to player Rodgers pressing style.
I agree Pérez is better as a 10 than our wide. But I’d say he’s ‘ok’ at one and not very good at the other.
I’m still willing to give him more time, but he has to do better for me. At the minute, Ian is affecting games where Barnes and Perez are struggling to do so.
Definite argument to go 3-5-2 and drop the need for wide forwards. Gets Tielemans and Maddison central and allows our wing backs to get up the pitch - especially Pereira.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ian was also written off as not good enough, so was Ricardo. It's a common theme with our fans if players don't show us what they're capable of for 90 mins in every game from their first. Mendy was another one written off. I get pretty fed up with it to be honest, players need time to adapt and most fans don't allow them any time, just slate them and expect.
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Ian was written off for good reason - he was absolutely atrocious for about 18 months. I mean he couldn’t even control a football nevermind taking a decent chance. Can’t blame fans for being frustrated over a player who cost us £25m being as shocking as he was for so long - and he got plenty of chances from the bench and in cup games as well.
I agree about fans writing some players off early (we all do it), I’ve always tried to stick up for Gray because I think players should be given an opportunity - as long as they are showing signs of improvement - however long that may take
Perez is a little different though. He’s not a teenager. He hasn’t arrived from a different league and even coming in from the right, his finishing needs to improve. I’m not saying he’s a bad player, but I don’t see him as being completely nullified when he’s played out wide and that doesn’t excuse fluffing really easy chances
posted on 10/1/20
But yeah I agree, we shouldn’t write players off way too early. Perez should be given the season and played more in his preferred role (which is difficult as we have Maddison there)
If we are going to apply that logic to Perez then we should apply it to Tielemans as well. He’s in a bad run of form - doesn’t make him a bad player and he’s still very very young
posted on 10/1/20
Interesting thoughts. I was going to heatedly agree with Arro about us being too quick to write off our players then was so disappointed to see a subsequent comment about dropping Tielemans! Not that I'm arguing he has been struggling somewhat recently (Tielemans not Arro!).
We are indeed all guilty but I reckon Tielemans is getting too much stick for Saturday, first half in particular when he did appear to be one of the few trying to be positive. I'm not suggesting he had a good game btw.
Perez seems to be quickly picked on I suppose because he's 'too lightweight', 'lazy' or 'cost £30M' - take your pick.
It seems anybody who doesn't immediately become the Leicester Messi/Ronaldo is straight into the firing line.
Barnes doesn't usually get as much criticism, despite being absolutely hapless all season in front of goal - is this because he gets more leeway being 'one of our own' (yes I know he's young and only just in the side but so is Tielemans)?
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