I think the importance of being without Pogba - and to a lesser extant McTominay - for large parts of the season has been massively understated (or unacknowledged) by a lot of our fans.
Even City, as good as they are, don't look nearly as good when De Bruyne is out injured. Pogba is that important for us when it comes to unlocking the less ambitious sides in the league.
I have no doubt that we'd be comfortably situated in the top four if we'd had Pogba for even a third of the games he's missed where we've dropped points. As frustrating as I find him, even I have to appreciate what he brings to the team.
It's hard to judge Ole for any perceived playing style when key injuries have limited us to one particular counter-attacking style. I do think that Mata has been severely under-utilised in Pogba's stead, for which the blame does fall at Ole's feet, but Lingard was key to the way we played when Ole first came in, so I can see why he's been loyal to the player.
If we can get Fernandes (whom I haven;'t seen, but I've gotta defer to some of the people on here who claim to have followed him closely), and get a fit Pogba back, as well as this van de beek lad we've been linked to, then I'd expect us to be able to change up our style.
We desperately need an effective #9/false 9 to have more success with the high press. Martial doesn't cut it.
De Bruyne only started 11 PL games last season and they looked pretty good.
I think while Pogba is clearly one of the most talented players (if not most talented) we have it isn’t clear that we are better with him based on his form for us. He had a very good 2-3 months last season but before that was hugely inconsistent and I dont think his absence has been understated because it isn’t clear what Pogba we would have missed.
I'd like to see us far less reliant on pace alone.
De Bruyne only started 11 PL games last season and they looked pretty good.
-
They did, and of course they would with the talent they have. But it’s fair to say that they’re a much better side when he plays. We were still a good side without Ronaldo in 07/08, but we were a different proposition entirely when he played.
Buts it’s an odd comparison to make firstly because City have the squad to replace him to some degree where as we have a poor squad and secondly because Pogba is nowhere near as influential for us as De Bruyne is for City. And as I said, it isn’t clear how much we miss Pogba because it isn’t clear how he’ll perform for us as he’s been hugely inconsistent during his time at the club. There are no guarantees we’ll see the Pogba who played well for 2-3 months last season.
I think the importance of being without Pogba - and to a lesser extant McTominay - for large parts of the season has been massively understated (or unacknowledged) by a lot of our fans.
---------------------
Its huge.
I think the last time we had a fit Paul Pogba was at Southampton in August (not counting the Arsenal game which he was rushed back for). If you told me at the start of the season we'd be without Pogba for 6 months I wouldn't have given us a cat's chance in hell of getting top 4.
It's not necessarily a complete defence of Ole, because I think it was naive to go into a season like this. CM should have been absolute top priority. But I do have some sympathy in that the worst thing that couldve happened injury-wise has happened.
Difference is with that old team, they all played their hearts out 99% of the time.
This new lot are a lazy bunch of sh!thouses.
Plus you mention Keane being a defensive mid, that guy could also pass and score goals.
Scholes was also a heavy tackler, a good passer and a scorer of a fair few goals.
We had backups Nicky butt who was a decent all rounder too and better than anything we currently have.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 55 minutes ago
Buts it’s an odd comparison to make firstly because City have the squad to replace him to some degree where as we have a poor squad and secondly because Pogba is nowhere near as influential for us as De Bruyne is for City. And as I said, it isn’t clear how much we miss Pogba because it isn’t clear how he’ll perform for us as he’s been hugely inconsistent during his time at the club. There are no guarantees we’ll see the Pogba who played well for 2-3 months last season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s only an odd comparison if you’re being obtuse regarding the point being made; that any team would suffer losing their best player, but especially United who don’t have a wealth of quality to absorb it.
Agreed Greg. I'm trying to show that Ole does not have the wealth of talent SAF built up, he had the right player for each position.
Ole doesn't have that luxury yet, so has to try and find a style that suits what he has.
The poster of that thread is of questionable club loyalty IMO and is Ole Out as well as a Flopp Fanboy. One of a handful of alleged Manchester United online "supporters"who make me wonder if maybe they picked the club out of convenience while we were on top and aren't going to stay on board while we're struggling. Ole's doing the best he can and I'm putting my faith in him. He is still learning, and normally managers don't come here to learn. But having Manchester United DNA is something the club wanted a return to, and I'm seeing improvement. With another 4 signings before next season, I think Ole can get us competing on all fronts again. Even Sir alex needed a few seasons to get us out of the "cup team" rut and make us Champions again.
Page 1 of 1
First
Previous
1
Next
Latest
Sign in if you want to comment
A good debate below on "Competing"
Page 1 of 1
posted on 14/1/20
I think the importance of being without Pogba - and to a lesser extant McTominay - for large parts of the season has been massively understated (or unacknowledged) by a lot of our fans.
Even City, as good as they are, don't look nearly as good when De Bruyne is out injured. Pogba is that important for us when it comes to unlocking the less ambitious sides in the league.
I have no doubt that we'd be comfortably situated in the top four if we'd had Pogba for even a third of the games he's missed where we've dropped points. As frustrating as I find him, even I have to appreciate what he brings to the team.
It's hard to judge Ole for any perceived playing style when key injuries have limited us to one particular counter-attacking style. I do think that Mata has been severely under-utilised in Pogba's stead, for which the blame does fall at Ole's feet, but Lingard was key to the way we played when Ole first came in, so I can see why he's been loyal to the player.
If we can get Fernandes (whom I haven;'t seen, but I've gotta defer to some of the people on here who claim to have followed him closely), and get a fit Pogba back, as well as this van de beek lad we've been linked to, then I'd expect us to be able to change up our style.
We desperately need an effective #9/false 9 to have more success with the high press. Martial doesn't cut it.
posted on 14/1/20
De Bruyne only started 11 PL games last season and they looked pretty good.
I think while Pogba is clearly one of the most talented players (if not most talented) we have it isn’t clear that we are better with him based on his form for us. He had a very good 2-3 months last season but before that was hugely inconsistent and I dont think his absence has been understated because it isn’t clear what Pogba we would have missed.
posted on 14/1/20
I'd like to see us far less reliant on pace alone.
posted on 14/1/20
De Bruyne only started 11 PL games last season and they looked pretty good.
-
They did, and of course they would with the talent they have. But it’s fair to say that they’re a much better side when he plays. We were still a good side without Ronaldo in 07/08, but we were a different proposition entirely when he played.
posted on 14/1/20
Buts it’s an odd comparison to make firstly because City have the squad to replace him to some degree where as we have a poor squad and secondly because Pogba is nowhere near as influential for us as De Bruyne is for City. And as I said, it isn’t clear how much we miss Pogba because it isn’t clear how he’ll perform for us as he’s been hugely inconsistent during his time at the club. There are no guarantees we’ll see the Pogba who played well for 2-3 months last season.
posted on 14/1/20
I think the importance of being without Pogba - and to a lesser extant McTominay - for large parts of the season has been massively understated (or unacknowledged) by a lot of our fans.
---------------------
Its huge.
I think the last time we had a fit Paul Pogba was at Southampton in August (not counting the Arsenal game which he was rushed back for). If you told me at the start of the season we'd be without Pogba for 6 months I wouldn't have given us a cat's chance in hell of getting top 4.
It's not necessarily a complete defence of Ole, because I think it was naive to go into a season like this. CM should have been absolute top priority. But I do have some sympathy in that the worst thing that couldve happened injury-wise has happened.
posted on 14/1/20
Difference is with that old team, they all played their hearts out 99% of the time.
This new lot are a lazy bunch of sh!thouses.
Plus you mention Keane being a defensive mid, that guy could also pass and score goals.
Scholes was also a heavy tackler, a good passer and a scorer of a fair few goals.
We had backups Nicky butt who was a decent all rounder too and better than anything we currently have.
posted on 14/1/20
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 55 minutes ago
Buts it’s an odd comparison to make firstly because City have the squad to replace him to some degree where as we have a poor squad and secondly because Pogba is nowhere near as influential for us as De Bruyne is for City. And as I said, it isn’t clear how much we miss Pogba because it isn’t clear how he’ll perform for us as he’s been hugely inconsistent during his time at the club. There are no guarantees we’ll see the Pogba who played well for 2-3 months last season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s only an odd comparison if you’re being obtuse regarding the point being made; that any team would suffer losing their best player, but especially United who don’t have a wealth of quality to absorb it.
posted on 14/1/20
Agreed Greg. I'm trying to show that Ole does not have the wealth of talent SAF built up, he had the right player for each position.
Ole doesn't have that luxury yet, so has to try and find a style that suits what he has.
posted on 15/1/20
The poster of that thread is of questionable club loyalty IMO and is Ole Out as well as a Flopp Fanboy. One of a handful of alleged Manchester United online "supporters"who make me wonder if maybe they picked the club out of convenience while we were on top and aren't going to stay on board while we're struggling. Ole's doing the best he can and I'm putting my faith in him. He is still learning, and normally managers don't come here to learn. But having Manchester United DNA is something the club wanted a return to, and I'm seeing improvement. With another 4 signings before next season, I think Ole can get us competing on all fronts again. Even Sir alex needed a few seasons to get us out of the "cup team" rut and make us Champions again.
Page 1 of 1