Comment deleted by Article Creator
I am not sure why you are all saying “ I can’t see this going anywhere”?
I don’t think they take things lightly. It seems to me that if they charge you there is a decent chance you will be getting punished. I have no idea of the details so am not saying Derby have done anything wrong. But they must be relatively confident and I presume they have lawyers of their own who they have consulted.
It is also going to be looked at independently too so if they confirm the same thing then I think you could be in trouble.
Prediction is an 11 point fine.
Have a read of this, published last year about Derby's finances by Keiran Maguire. Tres interesting...
http://priceoffootball.com/derby-county-2017-18-say-youll-be-there/
This has come about because Middlesbrough have sued the EFL. The EFL's regulations around FFP probably wouldn't stand up to legal scrutiny so it may be that in order to persuade Middlesbrough to drop its case the EFL have agreed to charge Derby. The EFL panel which is to consider this isn't a court of law so in theory it can issue arbitrary punishments, as it has done previously. If that's what happens then Derby would also have the option to sue the EFL, since the latter approved Derby's accounts and stadium sale, or the company which issued the independent valuation. It's hard to see this being anything other than a long messy process. Of note Sheffield Wednesday have also threatened to sue the EFL over its own charge relating to FFP submissions.
It's very hard to see what the outcome will be. The EFL doesn't want to be facing lots of legal actions from Middlesbrough, Sheffield Wednesday and probably Derby if a significant punishment is imposed. Maybe a relatively small punishment would be accepted by Derby to close it all down if it was imposed this season and had no impact on which division we will be playing next season. A big points deduction, the EFL having approved the accounts originally, would surely result in a protracted legal battle which would be in the courts rather than in an EFL meeting room.
Funny that Strett because the same bloke was on Radio Derby last night said that Sheff W and Birmingham where holding the sale of their ground as a debt against the owner. i.e no money had changed hands.
Whereas Derby have received the cash from Mel which the expert said said was a positive for Derby and will be a real problem for Sheff W.
So don't worry your little head about it mate. We'll be fine.
Comment deleted by Article Creator
comment by Rameses, Kom op jij Rams (U7190)
posted 14 minutes ago
Funny that Strett because the same bloke was on Radio Derby last night said that Sheff W and Birmingham where holding the sale of their ground as a debt against the owner. i.e no money had changed hands.
Whereas Derby have received the cash from Mel which the expert said said was a positive for Derby and will be a real problem for Sheff W.
So don't worry your little head about it mate. We'll be fine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not worried Rameses, quite the opposite actually.
I think this all hinges on the valuation of PP.
Independent valuation is about £49 million, which would represent swing of about £32 million. That is significant given that Derby suffered combined pre-tax losses of just over £8 million for the three years under review. Under the EFL’s profit and sustainability rules a club cannot record losses in excess of £39 million over any three-year period.
We usually pay too much for our players, so why can't our ground be valued high?
Only 21? Surely more than that.
Comment deleted by Article Creator
That was in response to Wetherby's now deleted insightful contribution.
This extensively reported in The Times and includes a comment by "Joff". "A Ram since the Hinton days...." saying "Derby clearly guilty, should take the punishment....and he is ashamed to be a fan.....:"
Hmmm
Joff sounds like a Forest fan to me, as such he should be ashamed.
Forest fans reading proper papers? Possible I suppose
I'm relieved to see you lot aren't all stirred up by this EFL charge nonsense, it's providing some much needed January entertainment though?
I think that we take a couple of things into account RFB.
Firstly, the EFL legal team probably do not take the views expressed on here into account.
Secondly, Mel certainly has more experience of big business than us.
Otherwise, let's all get hysterical
What was that thing Oscar Wilde said? Something about it better being talked about than never been talked about at all.....
DCFC statement now made.
https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2020/01/club-statement-17th-january-2020
Strong and considered rebuttal of the EFL case against the club. It is hard to see how the EFL will be able to make anything stick.
Well Vidal, I hope you’re happy? Killing the thread with one posting.
It’s all gone quiet 🤫 over there
Well Vidal, I hope you’re happy? Killing the thread with one posting.
It’s all gone quiet 🤫 over there
This is turning into a nightmare for the EFL. Bullied by Middlesbrough into bringing this case it now faces suits by both Derby and Sheff Wednesday. If this all causes the collapse of new investment and is found to be a false accusation then Morris would have a very strong case for suing the EFL for the loss of tens of millions of pounds.
As I said, this will end up in the courts.
The stadium sale stuff and valuation was in my opinion, taking the p**ss, exploiting loopholes, so it's obvious why the EFL want to shut it down even if they accepted it at the time and now say it was a 'mistake'
It shows that the FFP stuff is unenforceable in objective terms, and they don't want that, and will do anything to enforce it.
The problem is it's their league, their rules, it's a private competition, they could make a rule whereby no team with 'Derby' in their name could ever be promoted, and the majority of teams would agree to those rules. Our argument is that retrospective punishment is illegal.
Interesting they're pulling up us on other things tho, this isn't entirely Stadium valuation, although you can't really say that a lot of players we've spent huge amounts of money on now have closer to a negative value *cough* TL *cough*
sorry, missed a word, should be
*don't* now have closer to a negative value
Sign in if you want to comment
Oh dear, we are in trouble.
Page 2 of 2
posted on 16/1/20
Comment deleted by Article Creator
posted on 17/1/20
I am not sure why you are all saying “ I can’t see this going anywhere”?
I don’t think they take things lightly. It seems to me that if they charge you there is a decent chance you will be getting punished. I have no idea of the details so am not saying Derby have done anything wrong. But they must be relatively confident and I presume they have lawyers of their own who they have consulted.
It is also going to be looked at independently too so if they confirm the same thing then I think you could be in trouble.
posted on 17/1/20
Prediction is an 11 point fine.
Have a read of this, published last year about Derby's finances by Keiran Maguire. Tres interesting...
http://priceoffootball.com/derby-county-2017-18-say-youll-be-there/
posted on 17/1/20
This has come about because Middlesbrough have sued the EFL. The EFL's regulations around FFP probably wouldn't stand up to legal scrutiny so it may be that in order to persuade Middlesbrough to drop its case the EFL have agreed to charge Derby. The EFL panel which is to consider this isn't a court of law so in theory it can issue arbitrary punishments, as it has done previously. If that's what happens then Derby would also have the option to sue the EFL, since the latter approved Derby's accounts and stadium sale, or the company which issued the independent valuation. It's hard to see this being anything other than a long messy process. Of note Sheffield Wednesday have also threatened to sue the EFL over its own charge relating to FFP submissions.
It's very hard to see what the outcome will be. The EFL doesn't want to be facing lots of legal actions from Middlesbrough, Sheffield Wednesday and probably Derby if a significant punishment is imposed. Maybe a relatively small punishment would be accepted by Derby to close it all down if it was imposed this season and had no impact on which division we will be playing next season. A big points deduction, the EFL having approved the accounts originally, would surely result in a protracted legal battle which would be in the courts rather than in an EFL meeting room.
posted on 17/1/20
Funny that Strett because the same bloke was on Radio Derby last night said that Sheff W and Birmingham where holding the sale of their ground as a debt against the owner. i.e no money had changed hands.
Whereas Derby have received the cash from Mel which the expert said said was a positive for Derby and will be a real problem for Sheff W.
So don't worry your little head about it mate. We'll be fine.
posted on 17/1/20
Comment deleted by Article Creator
posted on 17/1/20
comment by Rameses, Kom op jij Rams (U7190)
posted 14 minutes ago
Funny that Strett because the same bloke was on Radio Derby last night said that Sheff W and Birmingham where holding the sale of their ground as a debt against the owner. i.e no money had changed hands.
Whereas Derby have received the cash from Mel which the expert said said was a positive for Derby and will be a real problem for Sheff W.
So don't worry your little head about it mate. We'll be fine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not worried Rameses, quite the opposite actually.
I think this all hinges on the valuation of PP.
Independent valuation is about £49 million, which would represent swing of about £32 million. That is significant given that Derby suffered combined pre-tax losses of just over £8 million for the three years under review. Under the EFL’s profit and sustainability rules a club cannot record losses in excess of £39 million over any three-year period.
posted on 17/1/20
We usually pay too much for our players, so why can't our ground be valued high?
posted on 17/1/20
Only 21? Surely more than that.
posted on 17/1/20
Comment deleted by Article Creator
posted on 17/1/20
That was in response to Wetherby's now deleted insightful contribution.
posted on 17/1/20
This extensively reported in The Times and includes a comment by "Joff". "A Ram since the Hinton days...." saying "Derby clearly guilty, should take the punishment....and he is ashamed to be a fan.....:"
Hmmm
posted on 17/1/20
Joff sounds like a Forest fan to me, as such he should be ashamed.
posted on 17/1/20
Forest fans reading proper papers? Possible I suppose
posted on 17/1/20
I'm relieved to see you lot aren't all stirred up by this EFL charge nonsense, it's providing some much needed January entertainment though?
posted on 17/1/20
I think that we take a couple of things into account RFB.
Firstly, the EFL legal team probably do not take the views expressed on here into account.
Secondly, Mel certainly has more experience of big business than us.
Otherwise, let's all get hysterical
posted on 17/1/20
What was that thing Oscar Wilde said? Something about it better being talked about than never been talked about at all.....
posted on 17/1/20
DCFC statement now made.
https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2020/01/club-statement-17th-january-2020
Strong and considered rebuttal of the EFL case against the club. It is hard to see how the EFL will be able to make anything stick.
posted on 17/1/20
Get In!!!
posted on 17/1/20
Well Vidal, I hope you’re happy? Killing the thread with one posting.
It’s all gone quiet 🤫 over there
posted on 17/1/20
Well Vidal, I hope you’re happy? Killing the thread with one posting.
It’s all gone quiet 🤫 over there
posted on 17/1/20
Said it twice
posted on 17/1/20
This is turning into a nightmare for the EFL. Bullied by Middlesbrough into bringing this case it now faces suits by both Derby and Sheff Wednesday. If this all causes the collapse of new investment and is found to be a false accusation then Morris would have a very strong case for suing the EFL for the loss of tens of millions of pounds.
posted on 17/1/20
As I said, this will end up in the courts.
The stadium sale stuff and valuation was in my opinion, taking the p**ss, exploiting loopholes, so it's obvious why the EFL want to shut it down even if they accepted it at the time and now say it was a 'mistake'
It shows that the FFP stuff is unenforceable in objective terms, and they don't want that, and will do anything to enforce it.
The problem is it's their league, their rules, it's a private competition, they could make a rule whereby no team with 'Derby' in their name could ever be promoted, and the majority of teams would agree to those rules. Our argument is that retrospective punishment is illegal.
Interesting they're pulling up us on other things tho, this isn't entirely Stadium valuation, although you can't really say that a lot of players we've spent huge amounts of money on now have closer to a negative value *cough* TL *cough*
posted on 17/1/20
sorry, missed a word, should be
*don't* now have closer to a negative value
Page 2 of 2