I think it's just a combination of a lot of things that have conspired to place us where we are now. I do actually think his plan is pretty sound but I doubt he has enough in terms of players and his own ability to carry them out. Whatever you think of him though you have to concede he's been dealt some crappy cards along the way
Forgot to add yeah it is another good and thoughtful piece.
I’ve never slated Ole but we look like we’re going nowhere atm, and getting beat off lesser teams has certainly lost its shock value
No fear factor at OT anymore, goods that he’s trimming the deadwood but no silver linings just yet
comment by Diafol Coch 77 - A Reputable Poster (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
I think it's just a combination of a lot of things that have conspired to place us where we are now. I do actually think his plan is pretty sound but I doubt he has enough in terms of players and his own ability to carry them out. Whatever you think of him though you have to concede he's been dealt some crappy cards along the way
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think every single successor to Fergie was dealt some crappy cards. One they all share is the fact that the club's structure is clearly not fit for purpose, and the bad decisions / bad investments / bad appointments can have a cumulative effect in punching successive managers ever harder in the face (if I'm not over-using that metaphor).
That's not to say that Moyes, LVG, Mourinho and Solskjaer weren't individually the wrong appointments at the wrong time, or deny that they made mistakes that contributed to their failures.
What’s the point of trimming the deadwood if you’re not gonna bother replacing them? That’s the main issue.
Now this is a world class article. Perfectly put why OGS should be moved. He has been punched in the mouth and the fella has no idea where he is now. Time to throw in the towel
I think every single successor to Fergie was dealt some crappy cards.
The main one being Ed Woodward. I have a mind to go down to his office in Mayfair and take a dump on his desk.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 49 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 - A Reputable Poster (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
I think it's just a combination of a lot of things that have conspired to place us where we are now. I do actually think his plan is pretty sound but I doubt he has enough in terms of players and his own ability to carry them out. Whatever you think of him though you have to concede he's been dealt some crappy cards along the way
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think every single successor to Fergie was dealt some crappy cards. One they all share is the fact that the club's structure is clearly not fit for purpose, and the bad decisions / bad investments / bad appointments can have a cumulative effect in punching successive managers ever harder in the face (if I'm not over-using that metaphor).
That's not to say that Moyes, LVG, Mourinho and Solskjaer weren't individually the wrong appointments at the wrong time, or deny that they made mistakes that contributed to their failures.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree. The cards have been crappy and they haven't been played that well either. A double whammy if you like. That is why I am willing to give Ole time even if it's just to get things back in an even keel.
It has become a cliché but Mike Tyson's "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" is worth bearing in mind. Solskjaer stepped into Old Trafford wanting to play dynamic, high-pressing attacking football. In retrospect, it seems to have worked for about ten matches thanks to the adrenaline of sheer relief that Mourinho had left. We didn't have the players or the fitness to sustain that. But the summer friendlies demonstrated this was still Solskjaer's aspiration.
———
What I don’t get is why he then signed the players we did if this was the plan. It was obvious that they were unsuited to such a style of football.
its quite simple really, we had a mid table to top 4ish squad and are producing those kinda results.
we have a world class goalkeeper, we do not have a single world class defender, we have one midfielder who on his day can be world class but is inconsistent and hasn't even really played this season and we have no world class forwards.
The squad is producing exactly the outcome their talent belies.
Ole has been given one window and has bought two prospects and a CB who isn't world class but for all I know was the only one available when we clearly needed one.
no manager, not ole or anyone else can inherit this squad and be given judgement until he has had several windows to fix the glaring issues in personnel.
This is why the ire should be directed at the hierarchy, they have allowed managers to spend big, then not backed them the first sign of a blip.
klopp has spent half a billion quid and its taken 4 1/2 years to become what they are now, their first two seasons together they had plenty of bad performances and results but he ws consistently backed in the transfer market as he slowly upgraded nearly every position, he also has a world class medical team that he's only faced one or two injuries at a time and not half a squad at once.
Great article RR, well put.
Everyone has an opinion on this and in truth, no one really knows where Ole might take us with another 2-3 years - similarly, no one knows where we may end up by sacking him.
My issue in all of this is patience, respect and entitlement.
I have the patience to support my club and not throw my toys across the room when things are not going well.
I have respect for professionals who know more about the game than I do and who are clearly working their hardest to get United back on top.
And I don't feel entitled to success. I've lived through more success than many fans will experience in a whole lifetime, already. I'm lucky and I accept it can't always be that way.
None of this means that Ole, Ed or the club as a whole are beyond criticism. But it does mean that I think we as fans owe it to the club and ourselves to be a bit less melodramatic about the whole thing - but sadly that's the way of the modern game.
Fans who don't ever need to actually go to a game because they can watch on the TV, fans who have no real connection with the club, and fans who are more interested in bragging rights than cheering their club on.
It was always going to be a rollercoaster of a season and whilst I'm not enjoying the ride, I'm certainly not getting off.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 seconds ago
Great article RR, well put.
Everyone has an opinion on this and in truth, no one really knows where Ole might take us with another 2-3 years - similarly, no one knows where we may end up by sacking him.
My issue in all of this is patience, respect and entitlement.
I have the patience to support my club and not throw my toys across the room when things are not going well.
I have respect for professionals who know more about the game than I do and who are clearly working their hardest to get United back on top.
And I don't feel entitled to success. I've lived through more success than many fans will experience in a whole lifetime, already. I'm lucky and I accept it can't always be that way.
None of this means that Ole, Ed or the club as a whole are beyond criticism. But it does mean that I think we as fans owe it to the club and ourselves to be a bit less melodramatic about the whole thing - but sadly that's the way of the modern game.
Fans who don't ever need to actually go to a game because they can watch on the TV, fans who have no real connection with the club, and fans who are more interested in bragging rights than cheering their club on.
It was always going to be a rollercoaster of a season and whilst I'm not enjoying the ride, I'm certainly not getting off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never get off a rollercoaster until it has stopped. That would be worse than getting punched in the mouth.
Good article RR.
It is difficult to assess how much each of those failed due to the time constraints coaches are under nowadays to implement their plans too, they have to at least lay the foundations quickly and hope that people recognise and buy into it and then get given more time to then build on that. That gets even harder when there’s a few different coaches in a relatively short time all wanting to build different foundations.
Personally I think a couple of your coaches probably should have been given a little more time.
Somebody's been watching "Messiah".
I just watched that episode.
People tend to say "he doesn't have a plan" because its simpler to say than "he's plan isn't being executed very well for whatever reason". Ofcourse every manager actual has a plan. Sometimes the plan can be unfeasible.
When performances and tactics are a mess, it's difficult to figure out what the plan is.
comment by Greenwood FC (U11781)
posted 22 minutes ago
I think every single successor to Fergie was dealt some crappy cards.
The main one being Ed Woodward. I have a mind to go down to his office in Mayfair and take a dump on his desk.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Or punch him in the mouth
comment by Jim Lahey (U22183)
posted 5 minutes ago
its quite simple really, we had a mid table to top 4ish squad and are producing those kinda results.
we have a world class goalkeeper, we do not have a single world class defender, we have one midfielder who on his day can be world class but is inconsistent and hasn't even really played this season and we have no world class forwards.
The squad is producing exactly the outcome their talent belies.
Ole has been given one window and has bought two prospects and a CB who isn't world class but for all I know was the only one available when we clearly needed one.
no manager, not ole or anyone else can inherit this squad and be given judgement until he has had several windows to fix the glaring issues in personnel.
This is why the ire should be directed at the hierarchy, they have allowed managers to spend big, then not backed them the first sign of a blip.
klopp has spent half a billion quid and its taken 4 1/2 years to become what they are now, their first two seasons together they had plenty of bad performances and results but he ws consistently backed in the transfer market as he slowly upgraded nearly every position, he also has a world class medical team that he's only faced one or two injuries at a time and not half a squad at once.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Klopp has spent £400m, recouped £330m of that mind. In the same time frame, United have spent over half a billion, no idea how much they have recouped. The difference is we bought good players.
75m for VVD - you bought Maguire for £80m
39m for Fabinho - you bought Matic for £40m
Robertson 9m - you bought Shaw for 33m
Salah 35m - you bought Di Maria for 59m
Mane 34m - you bought Sanchez for 30m
Firmino 27m - you bought Lukaku for 75m
Wijnaldum 39m - you bought Fred for 50m
Etc etc.
Basically your signings have been awful, despite the spend.
Of course a lot of the spend can be put down to changing managers as managers like different players but it still doesnt hide the fact that the players signed have largely been poor.
you seem to miss the point there toor
you have listed multiple signings from different managers for different philosophies against Klopp signing all of those players for his philosophy
Our plan these days seems to be to pass it out from the back, which we're not good at. Then to try and attack through the centre of the crowded opposition defence, which we're also not good at.
Watching us try and pass the ball from the back has been so frustrating at times. De Gea rolls it out to Maguire, he looks for a ball but can't see one so passes it sideways, this continues for a few more passes, the opponents sense we have no idea what we're doing so press us and we panic so we pass back to de Gea who boots it and we lose possession.
comment by Jim Lahey (U22183)
posted 4 minutes ago
you seem to miss the point there toor
you have listed multiple signings from different managers for different philosophies against Klopp signing all of those players for his philosophy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I understand that point and mentioned it in my comment. However, even still, the majority of signings have been poor, no matter who the manager and what the philosophy. This has been the biggest issue.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 1 minute ago
Watching us try and pass the ball from the back has been so frustrating at times. De Gea rolls it out to Maguire, he looks for a ball but can't see one so passes it sideways, this continues for a few more passes, the opponents sense we have no idea what we're doing so press us and we panic so we pass back to de Gea who boots it and we lose possession.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is where Solskjaer has a way he wants to play but not the players to do it. He needs to play a system that suits his players which will buy him time until he gets his players.
you should be a football journo RR
Sign in if you want to comment
"He doesn't have a plan"
Page 1 of 9
6 | 7 | 8 | 9
posted on 24/1/20
Great read once again RR
posted on 24/1/20
Yep great read that
posted on 24/1/20
I think it's just a combination of a lot of things that have conspired to place us where we are now. I do actually think his plan is pretty sound but I doubt he has enough in terms of players and his own ability to carry them out. Whatever you think of him though you have to concede he's been dealt some crappy cards along the way
posted on 24/1/20
Forgot to add yeah it is another good and thoughtful piece.
posted on 24/1/20
I’ve never slated Ole but we look like we’re going nowhere atm, and getting beat off lesser teams has certainly lost its shock value
No fear factor at OT anymore, goods that he’s trimming the deadwood but no silver linings just yet
posted on 24/1/20
comment by Diafol Coch 77 - A Reputable Poster (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
I think it's just a combination of a lot of things that have conspired to place us where we are now. I do actually think his plan is pretty sound but I doubt he has enough in terms of players and his own ability to carry them out. Whatever you think of him though you have to concede he's been dealt some crappy cards along the way
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think every single successor to Fergie was dealt some crappy cards. One they all share is the fact that the club's structure is clearly not fit for purpose, and the bad decisions / bad investments / bad appointments can have a cumulative effect in punching successive managers ever harder in the face (if I'm not over-using that metaphor).
That's not to say that Moyes, LVG, Mourinho and Solskjaer weren't individually the wrong appointments at the wrong time, or deny that they made mistakes that contributed to their failures.
posted on 24/1/20
What’s the point of trimming the deadwood if you’re not gonna bother replacing them? That’s the main issue.
posted on 24/1/20
Now this is a world class article. Perfectly put why OGS should be moved. He has been punched in the mouth and the fella has no idea where he is now. Time to throw in the towel
posted on 24/1/20
I think every single successor to Fergie was dealt some crappy cards.
The main one being Ed Woodward. I have a mind to go down to his office in Mayfair and take a dump on his desk.
posted on 24/1/20
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 49 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 - A Reputable Poster (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
I think it's just a combination of a lot of things that have conspired to place us where we are now. I do actually think his plan is pretty sound but I doubt he has enough in terms of players and his own ability to carry them out. Whatever you think of him though you have to concede he's been dealt some crappy cards along the way
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think every single successor to Fergie was dealt some crappy cards. One they all share is the fact that the club's structure is clearly not fit for purpose, and the bad decisions / bad investments / bad appointments can have a cumulative effect in punching successive managers ever harder in the face (if I'm not over-using that metaphor).
That's not to say that Moyes, LVG, Mourinho and Solskjaer weren't individually the wrong appointments at the wrong time, or deny that they made mistakes that contributed to their failures.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree. The cards have been crappy and they haven't been played that well either. A double whammy if you like. That is why I am willing to give Ole time even if it's just to get things back in an even keel.
posted on 24/1/20
It has become a cliché but Mike Tyson's "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" is worth bearing in mind. Solskjaer stepped into Old Trafford wanting to play dynamic, high-pressing attacking football. In retrospect, it seems to have worked for about ten matches thanks to the adrenaline of sheer relief that Mourinho had left. We didn't have the players or the fitness to sustain that. But the summer friendlies demonstrated this was still Solskjaer's aspiration.
———
What I don’t get is why he then signed the players we did if this was the plan. It was obvious that they were unsuited to such a style of football.
posted on 24/1/20
its quite simple really, we had a mid table to top 4ish squad and are producing those kinda results.
we have a world class goalkeeper, we do not have a single world class defender, we have one midfielder who on his day can be world class but is inconsistent and hasn't even really played this season and we have no world class forwards.
The squad is producing exactly the outcome their talent belies.
Ole has been given one window and has bought two prospects and a CB who isn't world class but for all I know was the only one available when we clearly needed one.
no manager, not ole or anyone else can inherit this squad and be given judgement until he has had several windows to fix the glaring issues in personnel.
This is why the ire should be directed at the hierarchy, they have allowed managers to spend big, then not backed them the first sign of a blip.
klopp has spent half a billion quid and its taken 4 1/2 years to become what they are now, their first two seasons together they had plenty of bad performances and results but he ws consistently backed in the transfer market as he slowly upgraded nearly every position, he also has a world class medical team that he's only faced one or two injuries at a time and not half a squad at once.
posted on 24/1/20
Great article RR, well put.
Everyone has an opinion on this and in truth, no one really knows where Ole might take us with another 2-3 years - similarly, no one knows where we may end up by sacking him.
My issue in all of this is patience, respect and entitlement.
I have the patience to support my club and not throw my toys across the room when things are not going well.
I have respect for professionals who know more about the game than I do and who are clearly working their hardest to get United back on top.
And I don't feel entitled to success. I've lived through more success than many fans will experience in a whole lifetime, already. I'm lucky and I accept it can't always be that way.
None of this means that Ole, Ed or the club as a whole are beyond criticism. But it does mean that I think we as fans owe it to the club and ourselves to be a bit less melodramatic about the whole thing - but sadly that's the way of the modern game.
Fans who don't ever need to actually go to a game because they can watch on the TV, fans who have no real connection with the club, and fans who are more interested in bragging rights than cheering their club on.
It was always going to be a rollercoaster of a season and whilst I'm not enjoying the ride, I'm certainly not getting off.
posted on 24/1/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 seconds ago
Great article RR, well put.
Everyone has an opinion on this and in truth, no one really knows where Ole might take us with another 2-3 years - similarly, no one knows where we may end up by sacking him.
My issue in all of this is patience, respect and entitlement.
I have the patience to support my club and not throw my toys across the room when things are not going well.
I have respect for professionals who know more about the game than I do and who are clearly working their hardest to get United back on top.
And I don't feel entitled to success. I've lived through more success than many fans will experience in a whole lifetime, already. I'm lucky and I accept it can't always be that way.
None of this means that Ole, Ed or the club as a whole are beyond criticism. But it does mean that I think we as fans owe it to the club and ourselves to be a bit less melodramatic about the whole thing - but sadly that's the way of the modern game.
Fans who don't ever need to actually go to a game because they can watch on the TV, fans who have no real connection with the club, and fans who are more interested in bragging rights than cheering their club on.
It was always going to be a rollercoaster of a season and whilst I'm not enjoying the ride, I'm certainly not getting off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never get off a rollercoaster until it has stopped. That would be worse than getting punched in the mouth.
posted on 24/1/20
Good article RR.
It is difficult to assess how much each of those failed due to the time constraints coaches are under nowadays to implement their plans too, they have to at least lay the foundations quickly and hope that people recognise and buy into it and then get given more time to then build on that. That gets even harder when there’s a few different coaches in a relatively short time all wanting to build different foundations.
Personally I think a couple of your coaches probably should have been given a little more time.
posted on 24/1/20
Somebody's been watching "Messiah".
I just watched that episode.
posted on 24/1/20
People tend to say "he doesn't have a plan" because its simpler to say than "he's plan isn't being executed very well for whatever reason". Ofcourse every manager actual has a plan. Sometimes the plan can be unfeasible.
When performances and tactics are a mess, it's difficult to figure out what the plan is.
posted on 24/1/20
comment by Greenwood FC (U11781)
posted 22 minutes ago
I think every single successor to Fergie was dealt some crappy cards.
The main one being Ed Woodward. I have a mind to go down to his office in Mayfair and take a dump on his desk.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Or punch him in the mouth
posted on 24/1/20
comment by Jim Lahey (U22183)
posted 5 minutes ago
its quite simple really, we had a mid table to top 4ish squad and are producing those kinda results.
we have a world class goalkeeper, we do not have a single world class defender, we have one midfielder who on his day can be world class but is inconsistent and hasn't even really played this season and we have no world class forwards.
The squad is producing exactly the outcome their talent belies.
Ole has been given one window and has bought two prospects and a CB who isn't world class but for all I know was the only one available when we clearly needed one.
no manager, not ole or anyone else can inherit this squad and be given judgement until he has had several windows to fix the glaring issues in personnel.
This is why the ire should be directed at the hierarchy, they have allowed managers to spend big, then not backed them the first sign of a blip.
klopp has spent half a billion quid and its taken 4 1/2 years to become what they are now, their first two seasons together they had plenty of bad performances and results but he ws consistently backed in the transfer market as he slowly upgraded nearly every position, he also has a world class medical team that he's only faced one or two injuries at a time and not half a squad at once.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Klopp has spent £400m, recouped £330m of that mind. In the same time frame, United have spent over half a billion, no idea how much they have recouped. The difference is we bought good players.
75m for VVD - you bought Maguire for £80m
39m for Fabinho - you bought Matic for £40m
Robertson 9m - you bought Shaw for 33m
Salah 35m - you bought Di Maria for 59m
Mane 34m - you bought Sanchez for 30m
Firmino 27m - you bought Lukaku for 75m
Wijnaldum 39m - you bought Fred for 50m
Etc etc.
Basically your signings have been awful, despite the spend.
Of course a lot of the spend can be put down to changing managers as managers like different players but it still doesnt hide the fact that the players signed have largely been poor.
posted on 24/1/20
you seem to miss the point there toor
you have listed multiple signings from different managers for different philosophies against Klopp signing all of those players for his philosophy
posted on 24/1/20
Our plan these days seems to be to pass it out from the back, which we're not good at. Then to try and attack through the centre of the crowded opposition defence, which we're also not good at.
posted on 24/1/20
Watching us try and pass the ball from the back has been so frustrating at times. De Gea rolls it out to Maguire, he looks for a ball but can't see one so passes it sideways, this continues for a few more passes, the opponents sense we have no idea what we're doing so press us and we panic so we pass back to de Gea who boots it and we lose possession.
posted on 24/1/20
comment by Jim Lahey (U22183)
posted 4 minutes ago
you seem to miss the point there toor
you have listed multiple signings from different managers for different philosophies against Klopp signing all of those players for his philosophy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I understand that point and mentioned it in my comment. However, even still, the majority of signings have been poor, no matter who the manager and what the philosophy. This has been the biggest issue.
posted on 24/1/20
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 1 minute ago
Watching us try and pass the ball from the back has been so frustrating at times. De Gea rolls it out to Maguire, he looks for a ball but can't see one so passes it sideways, this continues for a few more passes, the opponents sense we have no idea what we're doing so press us and we panic so we pass back to de Gea who boots it and we lose possession.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is where Solskjaer has a way he wants to play but not the players to do it. He needs to play a system that suits his players which will buy him time until he gets his players.
posted on 24/1/20
you should be a football journo RR
Page 1 of 9
6 | 7 | 8 | 9