“Outright saying fans, qualified or not, do not have the right to comment on a manager's tactics or coaching ability, when they do.”
Oh and JustYourAverageFan, when you’ve finished drying your eyes, feel free to provide some evidence for this.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Robb Fernandes (U22311)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Robb Fernandes (U22311)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Robb Fernandes (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 8 minutes ago
I really think a few people here need to look up the word ‘qualified’.
If I watch a video of a doctor explaining how he performs heart surgery, am I more qualified than someone who didn’t watch it to perform heart surgery?
Give your heads a wobble.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course you are
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Superb. One for the bookmarks, this thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you know even one percent more than another person about a subject, by definition you are more qualified
I’ve watched a YouTube video about how to land a plane in an emergency. I feel I would be more qualified to land a plane than someone who hadn’t watched a video.
I don’t even know how you can argue that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If I thought there was any chance of you understanding why you’re wrong, I’d explain it for you.
But you’re not, so I’ll just laugh at you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Typical Winston tactic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One minute I’m someone who ruins threads for debating something over and over, next minute I’m a guy who dodges debate.
Robb, you simply don’t have enough intelligence to engage with me so thanks for the interest but I’ll just point and laugh at you I think.
Qualified for heart surgery.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s not what I said and you know it - you are so dense
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 9 minutes ago
How do you know? I better there are more and more coaches that are qualified now than what there were 30 years ago because of how much more accessible it has become.
Typical United fan who is absolutely clueless on the game. Outright saying fans, qualified or not, do not have the right to comment on a manager's tactics or coaching ability, when they do. That point is as valid as anybody else's because they are the one's who make the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A marginally higher number of qualified coaches is not really the point that was being discussed, given that this was about an average fan watching on the TV, like Robb.
Nice little ‘toys out of the pram’ moment in that second paragraph.
Ruined any credibility you had and now you just look like a child.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you know it's marginally higher? Working off assumptions again.
No average fan needs any qualifications to discuss if a manager's coaching/tactic's are good enough because they have the evidence, the results and the league table. I'm sure the thousands of United fan's that booed and walked out against Burnley would also agree with me on that. Like I said, absolutely clueless about the game because you talk in theories and assumptions and not practically.
Have you never heard of a manager being sacked because the fans are unhappy? But what do they know, they aren't qualified.
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 9 minutes ago
How do you know? I better there are more and more coaches that are qualified now than what there were 30 years ago because of how much more accessible it has become.
Typical United fan who is absolutely clueless on the game. Outright saying fans, qualified or not, do not have the right to comment on a manager's tactics or coaching ability, when they do. That point is as valid as anybody else's because they are the one's who make the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A marginally higher number of qualified coaches is not really the point that was being discussed, given that this was about an average fan watching on the TV, like Robb.
Nice little ‘toys out of the pram’ moment in that second paragraph.
Ruined any credibility you had and now you just look like a child.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you know it's marginally higher? Working off assumptions again.
No average fan needs any qualifications to discuss if a manager's coaching/tactic's are good enough because they have the evidence, the results and the league table. I'm sure the thousands of United fan's that booed and walked out against Burnley would also agree with me on that. Like I said, absolutely clueless about the game because you talk in theories and assumptions and not practically.
Have you never heard of a manager being sacked because the fans are unhappy? But what do they know, they aren't qualified.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yet again you’re trying to reframe the debate.
I’ve never said fans are entitled to express their view.
How about you actually read what I said and we can discuss that?
I’m really not interesting in arguing a point I’ve never even made with someone who has already demonstrated that they’re rather childish when it comes to debating.
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 19 minutes ago
How do you know? I better there are more and more coaches that are qualified now than what there were 30 years ago because of how much more accessible it has become.
Typical United fan who is absolutely clueless on the game. Outright saying fans, qualified or not, do not have the right to comment on a manager's tactics or coaching ability, when they do. That point is as valid as anybody else's because they are the one's who make the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So your 'typical United Fan' is 'absolutely clueless on the game'?
Your opinion sounds worth listening to.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 hours, 13 minutes ago
comment by Mason The King Greenwood (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
Post, but it was also a different era. United were a completely different club and fans were not as knowledgeable about the inner workings of their clubs, and the role of management and coaching. People can make better informed opinions now than back then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m sorry but I really don’t agree with this.
There’s absolutely no way that armchair fans like the idiots on our board are remotely qualified to assess the management and/or coaching ability of Ole.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Lol.
"I’ve never said fans are not entitled to express their view."
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 hours, 13 minutes ago
comment by Mason The King Greenwood (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
Post, but it was also a different era. United were a completely different club and fans were not as knowledgeable about the inner workings of their clubs, and the role of management and coaching. People can make better informed opinions now than back then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m sorry but I really don’t agree with this.
There’s absolutely no way that armchair fans like the idiots on our board are remotely qualified to assess the management and/or coaching ability of Ole.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Lol.
"I’ve never said fans are not entitled to express their view."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh my. This is embarrassing.
Saying that they are not qualified to assess the management/coaching does absolutely not mean they’re not entitled to discuss it.
Fack me. Do you really not understand the difference?
Just to add, you actually made an argument out of nothing. Nowhere does that original comment mention anything about being more qualified, he does in fact state that fans are more knowledgeable today than what they were 30 years ago.
So yes, you just made up an argument that wasn't there to be made. As what posted further down, you will argue over anything.
Discussing and assessing are not separate in this context though, they essentially mean the same thing. If you are assessing Ole's managing ability, you're discussing him and vice versa.
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 2 minutes ago
Just to add, you actually made an argument out of nothing. Nowhere does that original comment mention anything about being more qualified, he does in fact state that fans are more knowledgeable today than what they were 30 years ago.
So yes, you just made up an argument that wasn't there to be made. As what posted further down, you will argue over anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasn’t an argument, it was just a debate / conversation. Sometimes discussions evolve into other areas.
It’s only you and your tantrum, based on a complete misunderstanding of what has actually been said (and that’s being generous to you) that has turned this into an argument.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 5 hours, 13 minutes ago
comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 5 minutes ago
Ole has never proven himself capable of managing in the premier league.
.....
Fergie hadn’t proven himself capable of managing in the First Division as it was then, which is the OP’ s point in question that you and Nobb are failing drastically to understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He probably wasn't perhaps. He needed 6 years to nail it down and for a manager to be allowed such a timescale in this time and age is hilariously stupid and not gonna happen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t think anyone is suggesting Ole gets that much time.
I am not really an Ole fan myself. We shouldn’t have appointed him when we did. But I think he should be given the benefit of another summer window to see what he can do with players he wants.
Unless it gets worse.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve changed your tune VC.
What happened to gone by end of jan if he continues to make the same mistakes and no signings came in?
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 1 minute ago
Discussing and assessing are not separate in this context though, they essentially mean the same thing. If you are assessing Ole's managing ability, you're discussing him and vice versa.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They absolutely don’t mean the same thing.
We all have the right to express an opinion on the subject but it doesn’t mean we’re qualified to conclude things about it.
You can’t blame me for your lack of understanding basic English.
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 24 seconds ago
Discussing and assessing are not separate in this context though, they essentially mean the same thing. If you are assessing Ole's managing ability, you're discussing him and vice versa.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can see this point. If we say someone is “entitled” to “discuss” Ole’s coaching credentials but not “qualified” to “assess” them, where does that leave things?
“Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has picked a team tonight.”
“Good point mate.”
“But I don’t understand why he’s playing a formation that relies on a quality no. 10 when we don’t have one.”
“Sorry mate, you’re not really qualified to make that kind of comment.”
I know there is a lot - a hell of a lot - we don’t see, but football (unlike, say, heart surgery) is open to all to watch. We’re saturated with it and just watching it very regularly certainly improves one’s understanding of it. I don’t think it’s that unreasonable for a fan to question a coach’s decisions if s/he can articulate points well, say why something was always likely to go wrong, and offer intelligent alternatives.
Let’s face it - you only have to listen to modern football pundits, whose number includes former coaches, to see what being “qualified” to comment on football means, i.e. having the knack of stating the bleeding obvious!
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 24 seconds ago
Discussing and assessing are not separate in this context though, they essentially mean the same thing. If you are assessing Ole's managing ability, you're discussing him and vice versa.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can see this point. If we say someone is “entitled” to “discuss” Ole’s coaching credentials but not “qualified” to “assess” them, where does that leave things?
“Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has picked a team tonight.”
“Good point mate.”
“But I don’t understand why he’s playing a formation that relies on a quality no. 10 when we don’t have one.”
“Sorry mate, you’re not really qualified to make that kind of comment.”
I know there is a lot - a hell of a lot - we don’t see, but football (unlike, say, heart surgery) is open to all to watch. We’re saturated with it and just watching it very regularly certainly improves one’s understanding of it. I don’t think it’s that unreasonable for a fan to question a coach’s decisions if s/he can articulate points well, say why something was always likely to go wrong, and offer intelligent alternatives.
Let’s face it - you only have to listen to modern football pundits, whose number includes former coaches, to see what being “qualified” to comment on football means, i.e. having the knack of stating the bleeding obvious!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I say, of course we’re all entitled to comment.
But let’s just check back - this was specifically about Ole’s coaching and management methods, and about a United ‘fan’ who watches on the TV.
I said he’s not qualified to assess Ole on this basis. I stand by that.
He can offer an opinion of course, but some opinions are more credible than others - significantly so.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 1 minute ago
Discussing and assessing are not separate in this context though, they essentially mean the same thing. If you are assessing Ole's managing ability, you're discussing him and vice versa.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They absolutely don’t mean the same thing.
We all have the right to express an opinion on the subject but it doesn’t mean we’re qualified to conclude things about it.
You can’t blame me for your lack of understanding basic English.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What do the board of directors at a football club usually base their decision to sack a manager, who is underperforming, on? Results. What do the fans largely base their opinion's on when regarding a manager's ability to manage a club? Results. Do the board of directors have the same coaching qualifications as a manager, no they don't. They base it off what they see, which is also what the fans see and I'm sure fans' views are taken very seriously into consideration when discussing/assessing, or whatever other word you want to use, a manager's position at a club.
The board are not qualified to conclude it are they because they don't have coaching qualifications? But guess what Einstein, they do conclude it and I'm sure a lot of that comes down to fan reaction. Big gaping hole in your theory. Once again, you are all theory, but nothing practical about your argument whatsoever. I suggest you learn the game a bit better.
But let’s just check back - this was specifically about Ole’s coaching and management methods, and about a United ‘fan’ who watches on the TV.
I said he’s not qualified to assess Ole on this basis. I stand by that.
He can offer an opinion of course, but some opinions are more credible than others - significantly so.
---------------------------------------------------------
The board of directors are not qualified coaches but guess what, it is there opinion's who count. In footballing terms, they do what the fans do every week as well.
As I've said above, quite the big hole in your very limited logic about football.
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 8 seconds ago
But let’s just check back - this was specifically about Ole’s coaching and management methods, and about a United ‘fan’ who watches on the TV.
I said he’s not qualified to assess Ole on this basis. I stand by that.
He can offer an opinion of course, but some opinions are more credible than others - significantly so.
---------------------------------------------------------
The board of directors are not qualified coaches but guess what, it is there opinion's who count. In footballing terms, they do what the fans do every week as well.
As I've said above, quite the big hole in your very limited logic about football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh you keep saying it, but it’s making no sense and it’s based on a complete misunderstanding of my point.
You’ve thought all along that I’m saying fans aren’t entitled to express their opinion, which is completely incorrect.
So forgive me if I don’t take much notice of your opinion about my knowledge, because it seems you can barely read.
“I said he’s not qualified to assess Ole on this basis. I stand by that.“
Not to be too pedantic - but why bother contributing to ja606 at all? Every time we say a team should sign player x, or player y should have been brought on earlier, or coach z plays the kind of football we want - why bother if we’re only “entitled” to say it but are ultimately thrashing around in the dark? Football is not rocket science or heart surgery. I don’t doubt for a second that there are technical and other things to get to grips with as a manager but I’d imagine that it’s sheer force of personality, as much as anything, that makes great coaches great, rather than their being keepers of some holy intellectual flame that’s beyond the ken of all TV viewers.
In short, I don’t think it’s beyond fans to make valid criticisms of top coaches.
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 24 seconds ago
Discussing and assessing are not separate in this context though, they essentially mean the same thing. If you are assessing Ole's managing ability, you're discussing him and vice versa.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can see this point. If we say someone is “entitled” to “discuss” Ole’s coaching credentials but not “qualified” to “assess” them, where does that leave things?
“Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has picked a team tonight.”
“Good point mate.”
“But I don’t understand why he’s playing a formation that relies on a quality no. 10 when we don’t have one.”
“Sorry mate, you’re not really qualified to make that kind of comment.”
I know there is a lot - a hell of a lot - we don’t see, but football (unlike, say, heart surgery) is open to all to watch. We’re saturated with it and just watching it very regularly certainly improves one’s understanding of it. I don’t think it’s that unreasonable for a fan to question a coach’s decisions if s/he can articulate points well, say why something was always likely to go wrong, and offer intelligent alternatives.
Let’s face it - you only have to listen to modern football pundits, whose number includes former coaches, to see what being “qualified” to comment on football means, i.e. having the knack of stating the bleeding obvious!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Garth Crooks exists.
Best thing about this whole thing is that men that are actually qualified to make the decision to sack the manager of the club aren’t actually qualified to make the decision.
And I’ve yet to see a director of Man Utd say that they’ve sacked the manager because having reviewed their coaching methods, they’ve decided that the manager is not a good enough coach.
What a facking stupid thing to say.
So what is your point exactly?
All you do is just change what you say to suit yourself. First it was they aren't qualified, then it was not entitled to express an opinion, then it was they can assess but not discuss or whatever it was. Do you actually know what you are on about half of the time?
Answer me this, if some fans' views aren't credible because they aren't qualified, how do explain the board of directors calling the shots, who are given the same job as fans, when assessing a manager's performance? This is where you lack of footballing knowledge comes into play, again.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
And I’ve yet to see a director of Man Utd say that they’ve sacked the manager because having reviewed their coaching methods, they’ve decided that the manager is not a good enough coach.
What a facking stupid thing to say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, “poor football” was cited as a reason for Van Gaal going, wasn’t it? That’s not far off.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
And I’ve yet to see a director of Man Utd say that they’ve sacked the manager because having reviewed their coaching methods, they’ve decided that the manager is not a good enough coach.
What a facking stupid thing to say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you mental?
A manager's coaching methods are judged by results. If the results aren't good enough, his coaching methods are not good enough for the players at the club. Please read a book or something.
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
And I’ve yet to see a director of Man Utd say that they’ve sacked the manager because having reviewed their coaching methods, they’ve decided that the manager is not a good enough coach.
What a facking stupid thing to say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you mental?
A manager's coaching methods are judged by results. If the results aren't good enough, his coaching methods are not good enough for the players at the club. Please read a book or something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You really should read back through the comments and have a look at just how stupid you look.
Board directors don’t claim to be qualified in judging coaching methods in the way that people have done here.
Yes, they judge using other criteria. That’s my point FFS.
Sign in if you want to comment
Thirty years ago. Who'd have sacked Fergie?
Page 8 of 9
6 | 7 | 8 | 9
posted on 25/1/20
“Outright saying fans, qualified or not, do not have the right to comment on a manager's tactics or coaching ability, when they do.”
Oh and JustYourAverageFan, when you’ve finished drying your eyes, feel free to provide some evidence for this.
posted on 25/1/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Robb Fernandes (U22311)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Robb Fernandes (U22311)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Robb Fernandes (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 8 minutes ago
I really think a few people here need to look up the word ‘qualified’.
If I watch a video of a doctor explaining how he performs heart surgery, am I more qualified than someone who didn’t watch it to perform heart surgery?
Give your heads a wobble.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course you are
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Superb. One for the bookmarks, this thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you know even one percent more than another person about a subject, by definition you are more qualified
I’ve watched a YouTube video about how to land a plane in an emergency. I feel I would be more qualified to land a plane than someone who hadn’t watched a video.
I don’t even know how you can argue that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If I thought there was any chance of you understanding why you’re wrong, I’d explain it for you.
But you’re not, so I’ll just laugh at you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Typical Winston tactic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One minute I’m someone who ruins threads for debating something over and over, next minute I’m a guy who dodges debate.
Robb, you simply don’t have enough intelligence to engage with me so thanks for the interest but I’ll just point and laugh at you I think.
Qualified for heart surgery.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s not what I said and you know it - you are so dense
posted on 25/1/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 9 minutes ago
How do you know? I better there are more and more coaches that are qualified now than what there were 30 years ago because of how much more accessible it has become.
Typical United fan who is absolutely clueless on the game. Outright saying fans, qualified or not, do not have the right to comment on a manager's tactics or coaching ability, when they do. That point is as valid as anybody else's because they are the one's who make the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A marginally higher number of qualified coaches is not really the point that was being discussed, given that this was about an average fan watching on the TV, like Robb.
Nice little ‘toys out of the pram’ moment in that second paragraph.
Ruined any credibility you had and now you just look like a child.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you know it's marginally higher? Working off assumptions again.
No average fan needs any qualifications to discuss if a manager's coaching/tactic's are good enough because they have the evidence, the results and the league table. I'm sure the thousands of United fan's that booed and walked out against Burnley would also agree with me on that. Like I said, absolutely clueless about the game because you talk in theories and assumptions and not practically.
Have you never heard of a manager being sacked because the fans are unhappy? But what do they know, they aren't qualified.
posted on 25/1/20
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 9 minutes ago
How do you know? I better there are more and more coaches that are qualified now than what there were 30 years ago because of how much more accessible it has become.
Typical United fan who is absolutely clueless on the game. Outright saying fans, qualified or not, do not have the right to comment on a manager's tactics or coaching ability, when they do. That point is as valid as anybody else's because they are the one's who make the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A marginally higher number of qualified coaches is not really the point that was being discussed, given that this was about an average fan watching on the TV, like Robb.
Nice little ‘toys out of the pram’ moment in that second paragraph.
Ruined any credibility you had and now you just look like a child.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you know it's marginally higher? Working off assumptions again.
No average fan needs any qualifications to discuss if a manager's coaching/tactic's are good enough because they have the evidence, the results and the league table. I'm sure the thousands of United fan's that booed and walked out against Burnley would also agree with me on that. Like I said, absolutely clueless about the game because you talk in theories and assumptions and not practically.
Have you never heard of a manager being sacked because the fans are unhappy? But what do they know, they aren't qualified.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yet again you’re trying to reframe the debate.
I’ve never said fans are entitled to express their view.
How about you actually read what I said and we can discuss that?
I’m really not interesting in arguing a point I’ve never even made with someone who has already demonstrated that they’re rather childish when it comes to debating.
posted on 25/1/20
are not*
posted on 25/1/20
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 19 minutes ago
How do you know? I better there are more and more coaches that are qualified now than what there were 30 years ago because of how much more accessible it has become.
Typical United fan who is absolutely clueless on the game. Outright saying fans, qualified or not, do not have the right to comment on a manager's tactics or coaching ability, when they do. That point is as valid as anybody else's because they are the one's who make the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So your 'typical United Fan' is 'absolutely clueless on the game'?
Your opinion sounds worth listening to.
posted on 25/1/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 hours, 13 minutes ago
comment by Mason The King Greenwood (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
Post, but it was also a different era. United were a completely different club and fans were not as knowledgeable about the inner workings of their clubs, and the role of management and coaching. People can make better informed opinions now than back then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m sorry but I really don’t agree with this.
There’s absolutely no way that armchair fans like the idiots on our board are remotely qualified to assess the management and/or coaching ability of Ole.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Lol.
"I’ve never said fans are not entitled to express their view."
posted on 25/1/20
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 hours, 13 minutes ago
comment by Mason The King Greenwood (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
Post, but it was also a different era. United were a completely different club and fans were not as knowledgeable about the inner workings of their clubs, and the role of management and coaching. People can make better informed opinions now than back then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m sorry but I really don’t agree with this.
There’s absolutely no way that armchair fans like the idiots on our board are remotely qualified to assess the management and/or coaching ability of Ole.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Lol.
"I’ve never said fans are not entitled to express their view."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh my. This is embarrassing.
Saying that they are not qualified to assess the management/coaching does absolutely not mean they’re not entitled to discuss it.
Fack me. Do you really not understand the difference?
posted on 25/1/20
Just to add, you actually made an argument out of nothing. Nowhere does that original comment mention anything about being more qualified, he does in fact state that fans are more knowledgeable today than what they were 30 years ago.
So yes, you just made up an argument that wasn't there to be made. As what posted further down, you will argue over anything.
posted on 25/1/20
Discussing and assessing are not separate in this context though, they essentially mean the same thing. If you are assessing Ole's managing ability, you're discussing him and vice versa.
posted on 25/1/20
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 2 minutes ago
Just to add, you actually made an argument out of nothing. Nowhere does that original comment mention anything about being more qualified, he does in fact state that fans are more knowledgeable today than what they were 30 years ago.
So yes, you just made up an argument that wasn't there to be made. As what posted further down, you will argue over anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasn’t an argument, it was just a debate / conversation. Sometimes discussions evolve into other areas.
It’s only you and your tantrum, based on a complete misunderstanding of what has actually been said (and that’s being generous to you) that has turned this into an argument.
posted on 25/1/20
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 5 hours, 13 minutes ago
comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 5 minutes ago
Ole has never proven himself capable of managing in the premier league.
.....
Fergie hadn’t proven himself capable of managing in the First Division as it was then, which is the OP’ s point in question that you and Nobb are failing drastically to understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He probably wasn't perhaps. He needed 6 years to nail it down and for a manager to be allowed such a timescale in this time and age is hilariously stupid and not gonna happen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t think anyone is suggesting Ole gets that much time.
I am not really an Ole fan myself. We shouldn’t have appointed him when we did. But I think he should be given the benefit of another summer window to see what he can do with players he wants.
Unless it gets worse.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve changed your tune VC.
What happened to gone by end of jan if he continues to make the same mistakes and no signings came in?
posted on 25/1/20
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 1 minute ago
Discussing and assessing are not separate in this context though, they essentially mean the same thing. If you are assessing Ole's managing ability, you're discussing him and vice versa.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They absolutely don’t mean the same thing.
We all have the right to express an opinion on the subject but it doesn’t mean we’re qualified to conclude things about it.
You can’t blame me for your lack of understanding basic English.
posted on 25/1/20
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 24 seconds ago
Discussing and assessing are not separate in this context though, they essentially mean the same thing. If you are assessing Ole's managing ability, you're discussing him and vice versa.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can see this point. If we say someone is “entitled” to “discuss” Ole’s coaching credentials but not “qualified” to “assess” them, where does that leave things?
“Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has picked a team tonight.”
“Good point mate.”
“But I don’t understand why he’s playing a formation that relies on a quality no. 10 when we don’t have one.”
“Sorry mate, you’re not really qualified to make that kind of comment.”
I know there is a lot - a hell of a lot - we don’t see, but football (unlike, say, heart surgery) is open to all to watch. We’re saturated with it and just watching it very regularly certainly improves one’s understanding of it. I don’t think it’s that unreasonable for a fan to question a coach’s decisions if s/he can articulate points well, say why something was always likely to go wrong, and offer intelligent alternatives.
Let’s face it - you only have to listen to modern football pundits, whose number includes former coaches, to see what being “qualified” to comment on football means, i.e. having the knack of stating the bleeding obvious!
posted on 25/1/20
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 24 seconds ago
Discussing and assessing are not separate in this context though, they essentially mean the same thing. If you are assessing Ole's managing ability, you're discussing him and vice versa.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can see this point. If we say someone is “entitled” to “discuss” Ole’s coaching credentials but not “qualified” to “assess” them, where does that leave things?
“Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has picked a team tonight.”
“Good point mate.”
“But I don’t understand why he’s playing a formation that relies on a quality no. 10 when we don’t have one.”
“Sorry mate, you’re not really qualified to make that kind of comment.”
I know there is a lot - a hell of a lot - we don’t see, but football (unlike, say, heart surgery) is open to all to watch. We’re saturated with it and just watching it very regularly certainly improves one’s understanding of it. I don’t think it’s that unreasonable for a fan to question a coach’s decisions if s/he can articulate points well, say why something was always likely to go wrong, and offer intelligent alternatives.
Let’s face it - you only have to listen to modern football pundits, whose number includes former coaches, to see what being “qualified” to comment on football means, i.e. having the knack of stating the bleeding obvious!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I say, of course we’re all entitled to comment.
But let’s just check back - this was specifically about Ole’s coaching and management methods, and about a United ‘fan’ who watches on the TV.
I said he’s not qualified to assess Ole on this basis. I stand by that.
He can offer an opinion of course, but some opinions are more credible than others - significantly so.
posted on 25/1/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 1 minute ago
Discussing and assessing are not separate in this context though, they essentially mean the same thing. If you are assessing Ole's managing ability, you're discussing him and vice versa.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They absolutely don’t mean the same thing.
We all have the right to express an opinion on the subject but it doesn’t mean we’re qualified to conclude things about it.
You can’t blame me for your lack of understanding basic English.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What do the board of directors at a football club usually base their decision to sack a manager, who is underperforming, on? Results. What do the fans largely base their opinion's on when regarding a manager's ability to manage a club? Results. Do the board of directors have the same coaching qualifications as a manager, no they don't. They base it off what they see, which is also what the fans see and I'm sure fans' views are taken very seriously into consideration when discussing/assessing, or whatever other word you want to use, a manager's position at a club.
The board are not qualified to conclude it are they because they don't have coaching qualifications? But guess what Einstein, they do conclude it and I'm sure a lot of that comes down to fan reaction. Big gaping hole in your theory. Once again, you are all theory, but nothing practical about your argument whatsoever. I suggest you learn the game a bit better.
posted on 25/1/20
But let’s just check back - this was specifically about Ole’s coaching and management methods, and about a United ‘fan’ who watches on the TV.
I said he’s not qualified to assess Ole on this basis. I stand by that.
He can offer an opinion of course, but some opinions are more credible than others - significantly so.
---------------------------------------------------------
The board of directors are not qualified coaches but guess what, it is there opinion's who count. In footballing terms, they do what the fans do every week as well.
As I've said above, quite the big hole in your very limited logic about football.
posted on 25/1/20
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 8 seconds ago
But let’s just check back - this was specifically about Ole’s coaching and management methods, and about a United ‘fan’ who watches on the TV.
I said he’s not qualified to assess Ole on this basis. I stand by that.
He can offer an opinion of course, but some opinions are more credible than others - significantly so.
---------------------------------------------------------
The board of directors are not qualified coaches but guess what, it is there opinion's who count. In footballing terms, they do what the fans do every week as well.
As I've said above, quite the big hole in your very limited logic about football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh you keep saying it, but it’s making no sense and it’s based on a complete misunderstanding of my point.
You’ve thought all along that I’m saying fans aren’t entitled to express their opinion, which is completely incorrect.
So forgive me if I don’t take much notice of your opinion about my knowledge, because it seems you can barely read.
posted on 25/1/20
“I said he’s not qualified to assess Ole on this basis. I stand by that.“
Not to be too pedantic - but why bother contributing to ja606 at all? Every time we say a team should sign player x, or player y should have been brought on earlier, or coach z plays the kind of football we want - why bother if we’re only “entitled” to say it but are ultimately thrashing around in the dark? Football is not rocket science or heart surgery. I don’t doubt for a second that there are technical and other things to get to grips with as a manager but I’d imagine that it’s sheer force of personality, as much as anything, that makes great coaches great, rather than their being keepers of some holy intellectual flame that’s beyond the ken of all TV viewers.
In short, I don’t think it’s beyond fans to make valid criticisms of top coaches.
posted on 25/1/20
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 24 seconds ago
Discussing and assessing are not separate in this context though, they essentially mean the same thing. If you are assessing Ole's managing ability, you're discussing him and vice versa.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can see this point. If we say someone is “entitled” to “discuss” Ole’s coaching credentials but not “qualified” to “assess” them, where does that leave things?
“Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has picked a team tonight.”
“Good point mate.”
“But I don’t understand why he’s playing a formation that relies on a quality no. 10 when we don’t have one.”
“Sorry mate, you’re not really qualified to make that kind of comment.”
I know there is a lot - a hell of a lot - we don’t see, but football (unlike, say, heart surgery) is open to all to watch. We’re saturated with it and just watching it very regularly certainly improves one’s understanding of it. I don’t think it’s that unreasonable for a fan to question a coach’s decisions if s/he can articulate points well, say why something was always likely to go wrong, and offer intelligent alternatives.
Let’s face it - you only have to listen to modern football pundits, whose number includes former coaches, to see what being “qualified” to comment on football means, i.e. having the knack of stating the bleeding obvious!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Garth Crooks exists.
Best thing about this whole thing is that men that are actually qualified to make the decision to sack the manager of the club aren’t actually qualified to make the decision.
posted on 25/1/20
And I’ve yet to see a director of Man Utd say that they’ve sacked the manager because having reviewed their coaching methods, they’ve decided that the manager is not a good enough coach.
What a facking stupid thing to say.
posted on 25/1/20
So what is your point exactly?
All you do is just change what you say to suit yourself. First it was they aren't qualified, then it was not entitled to express an opinion, then it was they can assess but not discuss or whatever it was. Do you actually know what you are on about half of the time?
Answer me this, if some fans' views aren't credible because they aren't qualified, how do explain the board of directors calling the shots, who are given the same job as fans, when assessing a manager's performance? This is where you lack of footballing knowledge comes into play, again.
posted on 25/1/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
And I’ve yet to see a director of Man Utd say that they’ve sacked the manager because having reviewed their coaching methods, they’ve decided that the manager is not a good enough coach.
What a facking stupid thing to say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, “poor football” was cited as a reason for Van Gaal going, wasn’t it? That’s not far off.
posted on 25/1/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
And I’ve yet to see a director of Man Utd say that they’ve sacked the manager because having reviewed their coaching methods, they’ve decided that the manager is not a good enough coach.
What a facking stupid thing to say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you mental?
A manager's coaching methods are judged by results. If the results aren't good enough, his coaching methods are not good enough for the players at the club. Please read a book or something.
posted on 25/1/20
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
And I’ve yet to see a director of Man Utd say that they’ve sacked the manager because having reviewed their coaching methods, they’ve decided that the manager is not a good enough coach.
What a facking stupid thing to say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you mental?
A manager's coaching methods are judged by results. If the results aren't good enough, his coaching methods are not good enough for the players at the club. Please read a book or something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You really should read back through the comments and have a look at just how stupid you look.
Board directors don’t claim to be qualified in judging coaching methods in the way that people have done here.
Yes, they judge using other criteria. That’s my point FFS.
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