comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 6 minutes ago
So what is your point exactly?
All you do is just change what you say to suit yourself. First it was they aren't qualified, then it was not entitled to express an opinion, then it was they can assess but not discuss or whatever it was. Do you actually know what you are on about half of the time?
Answer me this, if some fans' views aren't credible because they aren't qualified, how do explain the board of directors calling the shots, who are given the same job as fans, when assessing a manager's performance? This is where you lack of footballing knowledge comes into play, again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven’t changed anything - you have.
You keep arguing things no one has said. Is there really any point carrying on, given that you’ve thrown your toys over the room and now just want to get one over on me?
comment by Mason The King Greenwood (U10026)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 24 seconds ago
Discussing and assessing are not separate in this context though, they essentially mean the same thing. If you are assessing Ole's managing ability, you're discussing him and vice versa.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can see this point. If we say someone is “entitled” to “discuss” Ole’s coaching credentials but not “qualified” to “assess” them, where does that leave things?
“Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has picked a team tonight.”
“Good point mate.”
“But I don’t understand why he’s playing a formation that relies on a quality no. 10 when we don’t have one.”
“Sorry mate, you’re not really qualified to make that kind of comment.”
I know there is a lot - a hell of a lot - we don’t see, but football (unlike, say, heart surgery) is open to all to watch. We’re saturated with it and just watching it very regularly certainly improves one’s understanding of it. I don’t think it’s that unreasonable for a fan to question a coach’s decisions if s/he can articulate points well, say why something was always likely to go wrong, and offer intelligent alternatives.
Let’s face it - you only have to listen to modern football pundits, whose number includes former coaches, to see what being “qualified” to comment on football means, i.e. having the knack of stating the bleeding obvious!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Garth Crooks exists.
Best thing about this whole thing is that men that are actually qualified to make the decision to sack the manager of the club aren’t actually qualified to make the decision.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who said that?
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
And I’ve yet to see a director of Man Utd say that they’ve sacked the manager because having reviewed their coaching methods, they’ve decided that the manager is not a good enough coach.
What a facking stupid thing to say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, “poor football” was cited as a reason for Van Gaal going, wasn’t it? That’s not far off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s completely different.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
And I’ve yet to see a director of Man Utd say that they’ve sacked the manager because having reviewed their coaching methods, they’ve decided that the manager is not a good enough coach.
What a facking stupid thing to say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, “poor football” was cited as a reason for Van Gaal going, wasn’t it? That’s not far off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s completely different.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, if his results were bad enough to miss out on top four and his football was actually labelled “poor”, I’d argue that overall it wasn’t a glowing appraisal of his coaching methods.
I get what you’re saying, but aren’t club statements after sackings generally vague, short and business-like? I can’t read too much into what is or isn’t said therein. To an extent, every coach who is sacked for failing to meet targets is surely having his coaching methods questioned.
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
And I’ve yet to see a director of Man Utd say that they’ve sacked the manager because having reviewed their coaching methods, they’ve decided that the manager is not a good enough coach.
What a facking stupid thing to say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, “poor football” was cited as a reason for Van Gaal going, wasn’t it? That’s not far off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s completely different.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, if his results were bad enough to miss out on top four and his football was actually labelled “poor”, I’d argue that overall it wasn’t a glowing appraisal of his coaching methods.
I get what you’re saying, but aren’t club statements after sackings generally vague, short and business-like? I can’t read too much into what is or isn’t said therein. To an extent, every coach who is sacked for failing to meet targets is surely having his coaching methods questioned.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh of course, but there’s a massive difference between making a business decision vs claiming to be qualified on one very specific criteria.
I run my own business. I have to judge the performance of people in areas of business that I am not qualified in.
I can not believe people on here (not you btw) don’t understand this.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted on 25/1/20
This article and Ferguson is proof that anyone who tells you that they can categorically state Ole isn’t good enough, is wrong.
Rebuilding processes take time and often it’s difficult to see a manager’s ‘plan’ when the personnel isn’t right.
The ability to break teams down is certainly affected by the fact that we do not have anyone suitable in a key central position, and id be very interested to see what Ole does about that and how the system looks with that fixed.
This isn’t about comparing Ole to Ferguson but it’s certainly embarrassing that so many United fans seem not to realise the flaws in making final judgements after a relatively short period of time.
Even if you have one opinion, to completely rule out the idea that you might be wrong is ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think I was spot on with this one
I fell out with Robb on this subject but I’d like to think he would admit he was wrong and move on.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted on 25/1/20
This article and Ferguson is proof that anyone who tells you that they can categorically state Ole isn’t good enough, is wrong.
Rebuilding processes take time and often it’s difficult to see a manager’s ‘plan’ when the personnel isn’t right.
The ability to break teams down is certainly affected by the fact that we do not have anyone suitable in a key central position, and id be very interested to see what Ole does about that and how the system looks with that fixed.
This isn’t about comparing Ole to Ferguson but it’s certainly embarrassing that so many United fans seem not to realise the flaws in making final judgements after a relatively short period of time.
Even if you have one opinion, to completely rule out the idea that you might be wrong is ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think I was spot on with this one
I fell out with Robb on this subject but I’d like to think he would admit he was wrong and move on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you may be right there, Winston. I was hoping my article would provoke that very line of thought.
Sign in if you want to comment
Thirty years ago. Who'd have sacked Fergie?
Page 9 of 9
6 | 7 | 8 | 9
posted on 25/1/20
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 6 minutes ago
So what is your point exactly?
All you do is just change what you say to suit yourself. First it was they aren't qualified, then it was not entitled to express an opinion, then it was they can assess but not discuss or whatever it was. Do you actually know what you are on about half of the time?
Answer me this, if some fans' views aren't credible because they aren't qualified, how do explain the board of directors calling the shots, who are given the same job as fans, when assessing a manager's performance? This is where you lack of footballing knowledge comes into play, again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven’t changed anything - you have.
You keep arguing things no one has said. Is there really any point carrying on, given that you’ve thrown your toys over the room and now just want to get one over on me?
posted on 25/1/20
comment by Mason The King Greenwood (U10026)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 24 seconds ago
Discussing and assessing are not separate in this context though, they essentially mean the same thing. If you are assessing Ole's managing ability, you're discussing him and vice versa.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can see this point. If we say someone is “entitled” to “discuss” Ole’s coaching credentials but not “qualified” to “assess” them, where does that leave things?
“Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has picked a team tonight.”
“Good point mate.”
“But I don’t understand why he’s playing a formation that relies on a quality no. 10 when we don’t have one.”
“Sorry mate, you’re not really qualified to make that kind of comment.”
I know there is a lot - a hell of a lot - we don’t see, but football (unlike, say, heart surgery) is open to all to watch. We’re saturated with it and just watching it very regularly certainly improves one’s understanding of it. I don’t think it’s that unreasonable for a fan to question a coach’s decisions if s/he can articulate points well, say why something was always likely to go wrong, and offer intelligent alternatives.
Let’s face it - you only have to listen to modern football pundits, whose number includes former coaches, to see what being “qualified” to comment on football means, i.e. having the knack of stating the bleeding obvious!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Garth Crooks exists.
Best thing about this whole thing is that men that are actually qualified to make the decision to sack the manager of the club aren’t actually qualified to make the decision.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who said that?
posted on 25/1/20
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
And I’ve yet to see a director of Man Utd say that they’ve sacked the manager because having reviewed their coaching methods, they’ve decided that the manager is not a good enough coach.
What a facking stupid thing to say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, “poor football” was cited as a reason for Van Gaal going, wasn’t it? That’s not far off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s completely different.
posted on 25/1/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
And I’ve yet to see a director of Man Utd say that they’ve sacked the manager because having reviewed their coaching methods, they’ve decided that the manager is not a good enough coach.
What a facking stupid thing to say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, “poor football” was cited as a reason for Van Gaal going, wasn’t it? That’s not far off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s completely different.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, if his results were bad enough to miss out on top four and his football was actually labelled “poor”, I’d argue that overall it wasn’t a glowing appraisal of his coaching methods.
I get what you’re saying, but aren’t club statements after sackings generally vague, short and business-like? I can’t read too much into what is or isn’t said therein. To an extent, every coach who is sacked for failing to meet targets is surely having his coaching methods questioned.
posted on 25/1/20
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
And I’ve yet to see a director of Man Utd say that they’ve sacked the manager because having reviewed their coaching methods, they’ve decided that the manager is not a good enough coach.
What a facking stupid thing to say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, “poor football” was cited as a reason for Van Gaal going, wasn’t it? That’s not far off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s completely different.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, if his results were bad enough to miss out on top four and his football was actually labelled “poor”, I’d argue that overall it wasn’t a glowing appraisal of his coaching methods.
I get what you’re saying, but aren’t club statements after sackings generally vague, short and business-like? I can’t read too much into what is or isn’t said therein. To an extent, every coach who is sacked for failing to meet targets is surely having his coaching methods questioned.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh of course, but there’s a massive difference between making a business decision vs claiming to be qualified on one very specific criteria.
I run my own business. I have to judge the performance of people in areas of business that I am not qualified in.
I can not believe people on here (not you btw) don’t understand this.
posted on 11/7/20
Bumpetty bump
posted on 11/7/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted on 25/1/20
This article and Ferguson is proof that anyone who tells you that they can categorically state Ole isn’t good enough, is wrong.
Rebuilding processes take time and often it’s difficult to see a manager’s ‘plan’ when the personnel isn’t right.
The ability to break teams down is certainly affected by the fact that we do not have anyone suitable in a key central position, and id be very interested to see what Ole does about that and how the system looks with that fixed.
This isn’t about comparing Ole to Ferguson but it’s certainly embarrassing that so many United fans seem not to realise the flaws in making final judgements after a relatively short period of time.
Even if you have one opinion, to completely rule out the idea that you might be wrong is ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think I was spot on with this one
I fell out with Robb on this subject but I’d like to think he would admit he was wrong and move on.
posted on 11/7/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted on 25/1/20
This article and Ferguson is proof that anyone who tells you that they can categorically state Ole isn’t good enough, is wrong.
Rebuilding processes take time and often it’s difficult to see a manager’s ‘plan’ when the personnel isn’t right.
The ability to break teams down is certainly affected by the fact that we do not have anyone suitable in a key central position, and id be very interested to see what Ole does about that and how the system looks with that fixed.
This isn’t about comparing Ole to Ferguson but it’s certainly embarrassing that so many United fans seem not to realise the flaws in making final judgements after a relatively short period of time.
Even if you have one opinion, to completely rule out the idea that you might be wrong is ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think I was spot on with this one
I fell out with Robb on this subject but I’d like to think he would admit he was wrong and move on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you may be right there, Winston. I was hoping my article would provoke that very line of thought.
Page 9 of 9
6 | 7 | 8 | 9