Well lots of our so called: 'fans' on this board are celebrating the weakening of our team and the resultant slide into the relegation battle that has occurred this season, celebrating the loss of our best midfielder for nothing.
Rather incredulous.
Unfortunately it is all part of the transition period. Losing players you dodnt want to, keeping players who arent signing extensions because you cant replace them.
Post Wenger was never going to be a quick fix, until we have completely gone beyond that can we really move forward
comment by You Can't Buy Class (U12019)
posted 8 minutes ago
Well lots of our so called: 'fans' on this board are celebrating the weakening of our team and the resultant slide into the relegation battle that has occurred this season, celebrating the loss of our best midfielder for nothing.
Rather incredulous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You Can't Buy Class,
Please don't take this the wrong way, but is it ok if we try not to focus too much on Ramsey, as an individual, and focus more on the structural issues we face, in addition to many other top players who may well be leaving (both established and youth)?
Also, do you not think that, even despite Ramsey's absence, we still shouldn't be doing as badly as we currently are?
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 4 minutes ago
Unfortunately it is all part of the transition period. Losing players you dodnt want to, keeping players who arent signing extensions because you cant replace them.
Post Wenger was never going to be a quick fix, until we have completely gone beyond that can we really move forward
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do understand this, and I am aware that there is no quick solution. But there had to be the right checks and balances in place after Wenger left. Are you confident the right governance is in place currently?
Why though? What gives you the confidence?
Listening to George Michael isn't going to help us m8
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 17 minutes ago
You Can't Buy Class,
Please don't take this the wrong way, but is it ok if we try not to focus too much on Ramsey, as an individual, and focus more on the structural issues we face, in addition to many other top players who may well be leaving (both established and youth)?
Also, do you not think that, even despite Ramsey's absence, we still shouldn't be doing as badly as we currently are?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was trying to make a (sarcastic) point that absurdly most of our fans seem to be more concerned with celebrating what they consider "small victories" and I needn't say that particular one I consider a failure not a victory. Whereas the few of us who see the bigger picture realise that there are still potentially much more important things to concern ourselves with.
Apologies I was not trying to detract from your Topic and regarding your last question. I think that we are where we are for exactly that reason. We've drawn a lot of games and we are lacking goals, assists and creativity from midfield - exactly what he gave us and the stats don't lie. We've had zero of that this season since he left and some of those draws would have undoubtedly been wins, we'd be higher up the table for sure. I take issue with the fact that we as a club allowed that situation to arise without any form of adequate replacement and I cannot see a reason to celebrate that nor the loss of this player who also handed us the only silverware we've had in recent years with his goals. Haters gonna' hate though.
Managing contracts is a big problem that has not been addressed as you stated yourself with this topic.
I mean shouldn't we all be more concerned with having and keeping quality football players at our club than rubbing our hands together when the club saves itself a couple hundred thousand pounds a week to its own detriment as if it were being paid out of our own savings accounts?
That's sick logic.
We've been faffing about with contact extensions for close to 2 seasons now.
Then the club will panic and award yet another crazy £350,000 extension to a 30-year old player in order to save face (and prove the "haters" wrong on Twitter). While the rest walk away.
Rinse and repeat.
Of course, but until we start getting on top of managing contracts, the cycle will repeat.
Also, due to our status as a Europa League club, the loss in income has hit us hard. Our last accounts showed an increase in our wage bill, but a decrease in revenue. This isn't sustainable. It is hard to pay/keep players on top dollar if we continue to underperform on the pitch.
Bukayo Saka is another player, who looks like he has plenty of talent, that we could potentially be losing this Summer if we don't sort that situation out asap.
The Saka thing just popped up recently to add to my list of arsenal related worries. And we haven't even played.
If he doesn't want to sign a new deal, I don't think there's much we can do. We can't start throwing around bonanza contracts for teenagers all of a sudden. Hope we can get him to stay though.
If we can get a good fee for auba I won't be too bothered, provided his replacement is good. Bit of blind faith there, but there's not much else to go on. I can sort of understand his situation given his age, our reliance on him, and how crap we are.
Laca I would happily slam the door on his way out.
Jury is still out on the higher ups, they're doing some stuff well but also a little concerning with other bits. Only time will really tell.
As far as these contracts go, I don't think there's much really wrong with how they've been dealt with this time around. Auba is getting on a bit and we don't want to tie him to a huge contract for a long time.
Same with the defenders & Saka has just had his breakthrough season. He's shown he deserves a better deal and we're negotiating that with him now, if he had been given a better deal before doing anything of note we'd have people complaining about that too and harping back to the banter era of Carl Jenkinson getting 40k a week or whatever it was.
The Summer of 2019 is where we could have said to Auba either sign a new deal or we will sell you. The lack of clarity over his future can cause problems. It wouldn't have been ideal if he said he wanted to go, but we could have got a lot more ££ for him last Summer, to reinvest, than we will be able to in this one. The ball is in his court now.
Although I agree we can't risk giving obscene wages to youth players, this is another situation that we are allowing to drag on until the Summer where we have less control over his future. Why did Saka's contractual situation not get sorted earlier?
If representatives from the club are saying we won't let players run their deals down, it does not reflect well on them if that thing they said wouldn't happen is STILL happening.
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 11 minutes ago
The Summer of 2019 is where we could have said to Auba either sign a new deal or we will sell you. The lack of clarity over his future can cause problems. It wouldn't have been ideal if he said he wanted to go, but we could have got a lot more ££ for him last Summer, to reinvest, than we will be able to in this one. The ball is in his court now.
Although I agree we can't risk giving obscene wages to youth players, this is another situation that we are allowing to drag on until the Summer where we have less control over his future. Why did Saka's contractual situation not get sorted earlier?
If representatives from the club are saying we won't let players run their deals down, it does not reflect well on them if that thing they said wouldn't happen is STILL happening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But he still would have commanded high wages? To be honest unless someone wants to offer 80m for him, I'd be happy to move Laca on and let Auba run his contract down. The biggest problem for me though is attitude - if he doesn't want to be here we won't get the best out of him.
Negotiations are probably hard when Saka has made such a rise so quickly. His stock is rising week by week, which means his hand in the negotiations are changing week by week too.
I'm not sold on the board yet, but I don't think I'd have done too much differently to them in these instances. That said, probably a reason why I'm not running a football club
Imagine if we gave Auba an ultimatum last summer. We would be bottom of the league.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 2 minutes ago
Imagine if we gave Auba an ultimatum last summer. We would be bottom of the league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, that isn't true. It completely depends on how we would have reinvested the money and which areas we would have strengthened.
Letting him run his contract down as we have done was not a smart thing to do.
comment by TBaggerin (U11806)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 11 minutes ago
The Summer of 2019 is where we could have said to Auba either sign a new deal or we will sell you. The lack of clarity over his future can cause problems. It wouldn't have been ideal if he said he wanted to go, but we could have got a lot more ££ for him last Summer, to reinvest, than we will be able to in this one. The ball is in his court now.
Although I agree we can't risk giving obscene wages to youth players, this is another situation that we are allowing to drag on until the Summer where we have less control over his future. Why did Saka's contractual situation not get sorted earlier?
If representatives from the club are saying we won't let players run their deals down, it does not reflect well on them if that thing they said wouldn't happen is STILL happening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But he still would have commanded high wages? To be honest unless someone wants to offer 80m for him, I'd be happy to move Laca on and let Auba run his contract down. The biggest problem for me though is attitude - if he doesn't want to be here we won't get the best out of him.
Negotiations are probably hard when Saka has made such a rise so quickly. His stock is rising week by week, which means his hand in the negotiations are changing week by week too.
I'm not sold on the board yet, but I don't think I'd have done too much differently to them in these instances. That said, probably a reason why I'm not running a football club
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I take your point on Saka, and I guess it was always going to be a tricky one considering how well he has done. But I still maintain it's a mistake to not try and sort his future out now, rather than wait till the Summer, especially if the big dogs are lurking.
I'm obviously no expert in how to run a football club, but it does seem like we frequently make rookie mistakes and if people in the AST feel like this, then there has to be some substance to this sentiment.
The bottom line is I just don't feel like we're proactive enough as a club.
I take your point on Saka, and I guess it was always going to be a tricky one considering how well he has done. But I still maintain it's a mistake to not try and sort his future out now, rather than wait till the Summer, especially if the big dogs are lurking.
________________
I thought we were trying now, but talks had stalled?
The bottom line is I just don't feel like we're proactive enough as a club.
____________________
A probably from the past perhaps? At the moment we're in a position where the players hold more power than they should, but it does seem like we're trying to recruit in a proactive way, which should leave us less reliant on individuals.
That's the 5th start in a row for Saliba BTW.
A 2-1 Cup away win against a side in the French fourth tier.
Nice to see him getting game time. I find it very unlikely that we'll be spending another 30 million quid on a CB any time soon.
TBaggerin,
Telegraph are saying Arsenal are willing to let Saka run his contract down until the final 12 months as they want to negotiate terms in the Summer, rather than right now.
I sincerely hope you're right about the recruitment side of things. We have been slacking in a big way for years now. We need almost every transfer to go as well as we can possibly hope. Especially because of the inflated nature of transfer fees these days.
Aubameyang is almost certainly gone unless we somehow against all odds get CL. Even then I can see him going somewhere for a final pay check, or somewhere where he can win big before he retires. There’s not much we can do about that, don’t want him on silly money while he starts to decline. Just hope we can get a good fee for him
Where we are now we do need a clear out of big earners (who are mostly crap anyway) then hope our scouts are good enough to find gems on the cheap. It’s depressing but it’s where the club has let itself get to. It’s possible to do it very well, just hope we’re capable of doing that
Telegraph are saying Arsenal are willing to let Saka run his contract down until the final 12 months as they want to negotiate terms in the Summer, rather than right now.
_____________
I hope that's not right, but I would take anything from any paper with a pinch of salt, obviously they want to get clicks and a story like this would do that. Time will tell I guess.
Agree with the transfers, whenever we've spent big lately it hasn't been spent well enough and we've not been finding enough gems. Hopefully we're seeing the future plan with bigger money signings like Saliba and Pepe being balanced out with gems like Martinelli, Guendouzi & some youth players.
Remember when people blame Wenger for letting run contracts down. Nothing you can't do about it. Sell them in time for good money and move on.
Sign in if you want to comment
Are we making the same mistakes?
Page 1 of 2
posted on 13/2/20
Well lots of our so called: 'fans' on this board are celebrating the weakening of our team and the resultant slide into the relegation battle that has occurred this season, celebrating the loss of our best midfielder for nothing.
Rather incredulous.
posted on 13/2/20
Unfortunately it is all part of the transition period. Losing players you dodnt want to, keeping players who arent signing extensions because you cant replace them.
Post Wenger was never going to be a quick fix, until we have completely gone beyond that can we really move forward
posted on 13/2/20
comment by You Can't Buy Class (U12019)
posted 8 minutes ago
Well lots of our so called: 'fans' on this board are celebrating the weakening of our team and the resultant slide into the relegation battle that has occurred this season, celebrating the loss of our best midfielder for nothing.
Rather incredulous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You Can't Buy Class,
Please don't take this the wrong way, but is it ok if we try not to focus too much on Ramsey, as an individual, and focus more on the structural issues we face, in addition to many other top players who may well be leaving (both established and youth)?
Also, do you not think that, even despite Ramsey's absence, we still shouldn't be doing as badly as we currently are?
posted on 13/2/20
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 4 minutes ago
Unfortunately it is all part of the transition period. Losing players you dodnt want to, keeping players who arent signing extensions because you cant replace them.
Post Wenger was never going to be a quick fix, until we have completely gone beyond that can we really move forward
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do understand this, and I am aware that there is no quick solution. But there had to be the right checks and balances in place after Wenger left. Are you confident the right governance is in place currently?
posted on 13/2/20
Yes I am.
posted on 13/2/20
Why though? What gives you the confidence?
posted on 13/2/20
Faith.
posted on 13/2/20
Listening to George Michael isn't going to help us m8
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 17 minutes ago
You Can't Buy Class,
Please don't take this the wrong way, but is it ok if we try not to focus too much on Ramsey, as an individual, and focus more on the structural issues we face, in addition to many other top players who may well be leaving (both established and youth)?
Also, do you not think that, even despite Ramsey's absence, we still shouldn't be doing as badly as we currently are?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was trying to make a (sarcastic) point that absurdly most of our fans seem to be more concerned with celebrating what they consider "small victories" and I needn't say that particular one I consider a failure not a victory. Whereas the few of us who see the bigger picture realise that there are still potentially much more important things to concern ourselves with.
Apologies I was not trying to detract from your Topic and regarding your last question. I think that we are where we are for exactly that reason. We've drawn a lot of games and we are lacking goals, assists and creativity from midfield - exactly what he gave us and the stats don't lie. We've had zero of that this season since he left and some of those draws would have undoubtedly been wins, we'd be higher up the table for sure. I take issue with the fact that we as a club allowed that situation to arise without any form of adequate replacement and I cannot see a reason to celebrate that nor the loss of this player who also handed us the only silverware we've had in recent years with his goals. Haters gonna' hate though.
Managing contracts is a big problem that has not been addressed as you stated yourself with this topic.
posted on 13/2/20
I mean shouldn't we all be more concerned with having and keeping quality football players at our club than rubbing our hands together when the club saves itself a couple hundred thousand pounds a week to its own detriment as if it were being paid out of our own savings accounts?
That's sick logic.
posted on 13/2/20
We've been faffing about with contact extensions for close to 2 seasons now.
Then the club will panic and award yet another crazy £350,000 extension to a 30-year old player in order to save face (and prove the "haters" wrong on Twitter). While the rest walk away.
Rinse and repeat.
posted on 13/2/20
Of course, but until we start getting on top of managing contracts, the cycle will repeat.
Also, due to our status as a Europa League club, the loss in income has hit us hard. Our last accounts showed an increase in our wage bill, but a decrease in revenue. This isn't sustainable. It is hard to pay/keep players on top dollar if we continue to underperform on the pitch.
Bukayo Saka is another player, who looks like he has plenty of talent, that we could potentially be losing this Summer if we don't sort that situation out asap.
posted on 13/2/20
The Saka thing just popped up recently to add to my list of arsenal related worries. And we haven't even played.
If he doesn't want to sign a new deal, I don't think there's much we can do. We can't start throwing around bonanza contracts for teenagers all of a sudden. Hope we can get him to stay though.
If we can get a good fee for auba I won't be too bothered, provided his replacement is good. Bit of blind faith there, but there's not much else to go on. I can sort of understand his situation given his age, our reliance on him, and how crap we are.
Laca I would happily slam the door on his way out.
posted on 13/2/20
Jury is still out on the higher ups, they're doing some stuff well but also a little concerning with other bits. Only time will really tell.
As far as these contracts go, I don't think there's much really wrong with how they've been dealt with this time around. Auba is getting on a bit and we don't want to tie him to a huge contract for a long time.
Same with the defenders & Saka has just had his breakthrough season. He's shown he deserves a better deal and we're negotiating that with him now, if he had been given a better deal before doing anything of note we'd have people complaining about that too and harping back to the banter era of Carl Jenkinson getting 40k a week or whatever it was.
posted on 13/2/20
The Summer of 2019 is where we could have said to Auba either sign a new deal or we will sell you. The lack of clarity over his future can cause problems. It wouldn't have been ideal if he said he wanted to go, but we could have got a lot more ££ for him last Summer, to reinvest, than we will be able to in this one. The ball is in his court now.
Although I agree we can't risk giving obscene wages to youth players, this is another situation that we are allowing to drag on until the Summer where we have less control over his future. Why did Saka's contractual situation not get sorted earlier?
If representatives from the club are saying we won't let players run their deals down, it does not reflect well on them if that thing they said wouldn't happen is STILL happening.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 11 minutes ago
The Summer of 2019 is where we could have said to Auba either sign a new deal or we will sell you. The lack of clarity over his future can cause problems. It wouldn't have been ideal if he said he wanted to go, but we could have got a lot more ££ for him last Summer, to reinvest, than we will be able to in this one. The ball is in his court now.
Although I agree we can't risk giving obscene wages to youth players, this is another situation that we are allowing to drag on until the Summer where we have less control over his future. Why did Saka's contractual situation not get sorted earlier?
If representatives from the club are saying we won't let players run their deals down, it does not reflect well on them if that thing they said wouldn't happen is STILL happening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But he still would have commanded high wages? To be honest unless someone wants to offer 80m for him, I'd be happy to move Laca on and let Auba run his contract down. The biggest problem for me though is attitude - if he doesn't want to be here we won't get the best out of him.
Negotiations are probably hard when Saka has made such a rise so quickly. His stock is rising week by week, which means his hand in the negotiations are changing week by week too.
I'm not sold on the board yet, but I don't think I'd have done too much differently to them in these instances. That said, probably a reason why I'm not running a football club
posted on 13/2/20
Imagine if we gave Auba an ultimatum last summer. We would be bottom of the league.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 2 minutes ago
Imagine if we gave Auba an ultimatum last summer. We would be bottom of the league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, that isn't true. It completely depends on how we would have reinvested the money and which areas we would have strengthened.
Letting him run his contract down as we have done was not a smart thing to do.
posted on 13/2/20
comment by TBaggerin (U11806)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 11 minutes ago
The Summer of 2019 is where we could have said to Auba either sign a new deal or we will sell you. The lack of clarity over his future can cause problems. It wouldn't have been ideal if he said he wanted to go, but we could have got a lot more ££ for him last Summer, to reinvest, than we will be able to in this one. The ball is in his court now.
Although I agree we can't risk giving obscene wages to youth players, this is another situation that we are allowing to drag on until the Summer where we have less control over his future. Why did Saka's contractual situation not get sorted earlier?
If representatives from the club are saying we won't let players run their deals down, it does not reflect well on them if that thing they said wouldn't happen is STILL happening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But he still would have commanded high wages? To be honest unless someone wants to offer 80m for him, I'd be happy to move Laca on and let Auba run his contract down. The biggest problem for me though is attitude - if he doesn't want to be here we won't get the best out of him.
Negotiations are probably hard when Saka has made such a rise so quickly. His stock is rising week by week, which means his hand in the negotiations are changing week by week too.
I'm not sold on the board yet, but I don't think I'd have done too much differently to them in these instances. That said, probably a reason why I'm not running a football club
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I take your point on Saka, and I guess it was always going to be a tricky one considering how well he has done. But I still maintain it's a mistake to not try and sort his future out now, rather than wait till the Summer, especially if the big dogs are lurking.
I'm obviously no expert in how to run a football club, but it does seem like we frequently make rookie mistakes and if people in the AST feel like this, then there has to be some substance to this sentiment.
The bottom line is I just don't feel like we're proactive enough as a club.
posted on 13/2/20
I take your point on Saka, and I guess it was always going to be a tricky one considering how well he has done. But I still maintain it's a mistake to not try and sort his future out now, rather than wait till the Summer, especially if the big dogs are lurking.
________________
I thought we were trying now, but talks had stalled?
The bottom line is I just don't feel like we're proactive enough as a club.
____________________
A probably from the past perhaps? At the moment we're in a position where the players hold more power than they should, but it does seem like we're trying to recruit in a proactive way, which should leave us less reliant on individuals.
posted on 13/2/20
That's the 5th start in a row for Saliba BTW.
A 2-1 Cup away win against a side in the French fourth tier.
Nice to see him getting game time. I find it very unlikely that we'll be spending another 30 million quid on a CB any time soon.
posted on 13/2/20
TBaggerin,
Telegraph are saying Arsenal are willing to let Saka run his contract down until the final 12 months as they want to negotiate terms in the Summer, rather than right now.
I sincerely hope you're right about the recruitment side of things. We have been slacking in a big way for years now. We need almost every transfer to go as well as we can possibly hope. Especially because of the inflated nature of transfer fees these days.
posted on 13/2/20
Aubameyang is almost certainly gone unless we somehow against all odds get CL. Even then I can see him going somewhere for a final pay check, or somewhere where he can win big before he retires. There’s not much we can do about that, don’t want him on silly money while he starts to decline. Just hope we can get a good fee for him
Where we are now we do need a clear out of big earners (who are mostly crap anyway) then hope our scouts are good enough to find gems on the cheap. It’s depressing but it’s where the club has let itself get to. It’s possible to do it very well, just hope we’re capable of doing that
posted on 13/2/20
Telegraph are saying Arsenal are willing to let Saka run his contract down until the final 12 months as they want to negotiate terms in the Summer, rather than right now.
_____________
I hope that's not right, but I would take anything from any paper with a pinch of salt, obviously they want to get clicks and a story like this would do that. Time will tell I guess.
Agree with the transfers, whenever we've spent big lately it hasn't been spent well enough and we've not been finding enough gems. Hopefully we're seeing the future plan with bigger money signings like Saliba and Pepe being balanced out with gems like Martinelli, Guendouzi & some youth players.
posted on 14/2/20
Remember when people blame Wenger for letting run contracts down. Nothing you can't do about it. Sell them in time for good money and move on.
Page 1 of 2