Pierre Emerick-Aubameyang
Bukayo Saka
Mesut Ozil
David Luiz
Sokratis
Shkodran Mustafi
That list is somewhat understandable.
Auba will want huge money but is getting on and we could end up stuck with a declining player taking up massive wages.
Ozil is simply overpaid, nothing can be done now.
Saka has only just broke through, it would be foolish to have signed up youngsters on big money long term contracts until they've actually done something.
The others, well it would be a mistake to tie them up on long contracts because it's doubtful anyone will pay for them and we'll be wanting to improve.
I say all that as a usually harsh critic of the way our club operates but in this circumstance I don't think they've done too much wrong (bar previous errors like Ozil's monster contract and signing subpar defenders).
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 1 hour, 30 minutes ago
Remember when people blame Wenger for letting run contracts down. Nothing you can't do about it. Sell them in time for good money and move on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
GT, there are things you can do about it. But it requires being proactive and not taking your eye off the ball (proverbially).
As a general rule of thumb (and I appreciate with some cases it isn't that simple especially with youth), you should look to renegotiate terms with a player when they have 2 years left on their contract (to protect their value if nothing else). If they are reluctant to sign, sell them and bring a replacement in.
It doesn't matter how good a player is - if that player isn't committed to the club, then get rid.
comment by Scruttocks (U19684)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
Pierre Emerick-Aubameyang
Bukayo Saka
Mesut Ozil
David Luiz
Sokratis
Shkodran Mustafi
That list is somewhat understandable.
Auba will want huge money but is getting on and we could end up stuck with a declining player taking up massive wages.
Ozil is simply overpaid, nothing can be done now.
Saka has only just broke through, it would be foolish to have signed up youngsters on big money long term contracts until they've actually done something.
The others, well it would be a mistake to tie them up on long contracts because it's doubtful anyone will pay for them and we'll be wanting to improve.
I say all that as a usually harsh critic of the way our club operates but in this circumstance I don't think they've done too much wrong (bar previous errors like Ozil's monster contract and signing subpar defenders).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand that contract negotiations aren't easy and there are multifaceted issues to take into account. But if that's the case, don't assertively claim that players are going to stop running their contract down if you can't guarantee it. Raul clearly said that to appease the fans.
As stated earlier, we should have tried to sort out Auba's contractual situation last Summer if we knew he only had 2 years left on his deal. Now it's looking like it won't be sorted until the Summer, where he has more control over what to do.
People talk about his age, but he is a natural goalscorer, who rarely gets injured, and hasn't showed any signs of slowing down. There are plenty of strikers in their 30s that can perform at the top level. Age should only be a factor if you can see a decline in performance. There's been no tangible evidence of that.
The only CB I would be interested in keeping is Luiz. He's performed well under Arteta, has a unique distribution range and is a really influential figure on/off the pitch.
With younger players, it's a tricky one to manoeuvre. On one hand, you don't want to give them lucrative wages for a breakthrough season and let them dictate terms from an early age. On the other hand, you have to pay market rate to retain these players if you don't want them flourishing at other clubs.
Most people who have watched Saka have said he's the most talented prospect from all the Hale End youth. And that he is the one who looks most likely to become world class. He's 18 and has 8 assists for us this year, despite not being a regular starter, playing under 3 different managers and having been forced to play out of position.
It's a difficult balance to get. We cannot risk letting a player that good leave though. Unless he and his agent are asking for outrageous money. Baring in mind he's on £3,000 a week.
Raul changed the way contracts are done for players coming in after he joined. These contracts were from before he joined.
The real problem is not not learning from our past mistakes but the cheapskate owner not investing in the team. He's got billions richer in the time he's owned Arsenal but last year our actual spend on players was £38m if you dont include the £50m owing on Pepe that they said was coming out of future transfer funds. Buy cut price players and they wont all be good. we've done well with the likes of Torreira, Martinelli and Guendouzi.although they still have to prove they are top players (less so Martinelli) and we still have massive unaddressed issues to resolve, most notably quicker transition in midfield.
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 1 day, 8 hours ago
Remember when people blame Wenger for letting run contracts down. Nothing you can't do about it. Sell them in time for good money and move on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, guess it turns out they were wrong to do so huh. given that he's been gone nearly two years and it's still happening.
Saka's is the only one of those players I care about keeping. Auba, not bothered, great if he stays, good luck to him if he goes. Sokratis and Mustafi, fine so long as they're replaced with better. Ozil I want gone NOW. His stank ass is the big hurdle for ALL club negotiations at the moment.
Sorry OP you actually can't discuss our contracts situation, leaving out Ozil. He is at the centre of our contract problems at the moment. The financial drain is obvious. But this is about how his contract influences the other players whilst completely undermining the negotiating position of the club. Every single player due to negotiate, can point to how utterly sh!t Ozil has been and be well within their rights to demand not a penny less, than 150k a week for their services. MORE than justifiable, based on what we pay Ozil for his performances.
We will get either hauled over the coals or lose a player for chump change, with EVERY SINGLE reneg deal from now until Ozil is gone. As long as he's here, the club hasn't got a leg to stand on when negotiating with any of the others. None of you would put up with him getting 350k and you only 20 or 30 if you were bloody XHAKA let alone Saka. So dunno why anyone is expecting our players (especially the ones shining) to put up with that sh!t either. I swear, the quicker Ozil's blindass fanboys learn to see and become his booboys to get him out of here, the better. We shoulda sent his ass home last season and told him to feckin stay there! We WOULD be better off for it.
I didn't go into depth about Ozil because everyone unanimously agrees he shouldn't be at the club and his wages are a huge problem. It's been discussed to death.
What's the point of talking about something where everyone will be a broken record?
Because you have to when talking about how woeful the current negotiating at the club is. His deal is almost certainly a huge part of why we're struggling to get signatures. People are questioning the regime etc, whilst not factoring in the Ozil elephant. Our new people are hamstrung in negotiations BY his contract, in the way I've mentioned. So it's harsh for anyone really to be critical of the player contracts situation and having a go. And needless for anyone to be asking why we're still losing players.
We are losing them because thanks to Ozil's presence, nobody worth keeping is is willing to accept less than 150-200k a week MINIMUM. And we can't pay them that much. Raul didn't get where he has by being a weak negotiator. The problem is that even he, with his super agent skills, is rendered powerless. The second a player says "You pay Ozil 350 and he's been horrendous." It's indefensible as a position and we are losing and wil lose, the negotiation EVERY time.
That secondary impact of his contract, is the one most fans have been overlooking. Thus they sit blaming negotiators for not being able to negotiate from a stonewall LOSS position. And why so many of those said fans are JUST AS CULPABLE for the mess at the club, as the previous regime. Ozil only got that contract because a large number of fans ignorant to that effect, howling for it. I remember distinctly the fuss about how we couldn't possibly let Ozil leave the club and Wenger had to keep him whatever the cost. Despite fans like myself warning he damn sure wasn't worth it and it would hamstring us when negotiating with others.
So nah, stuff quietly brushing it aside and allowing his fanboys to quietly grumble reluctant admittance he should leave. Ozil is at the centre of our contract problems and each of those fans is responsible for that. Make em know it. They been loud enough about how great he supposedly was over the YEARS of sh!t he's given. They deserve every bit of reminding he is sh!t and because of them demanding h!s sh!t, their club is now FECKED! It sickens me the players that have been booed whilst he's been critique Teflon thanks to those fanboys. They deserve every bit of humble pie regarding the damage he has done and is STILL doing. After helping turn our club into the biggest cautionary tale about dumb contracts, in PL football history! All in that has done us for a good 100 mil.
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Are we making the same mistakes?
Page 2 of 2
posted on 14/2/20
Pierre Emerick-Aubameyang
Bukayo Saka
Mesut Ozil
David Luiz
Sokratis
Shkodran Mustafi
That list is somewhat understandable.
Auba will want huge money but is getting on and we could end up stuck with a declining player taking up massive wages.
Ozil is simply overpaid, nothing can be done now.
Saka has only just broke through, it would be foolish to have signed up youngsters on big money long term contracts until they've actually done something.
The others, well it would be a mistake to tie them up on long contracts because it's doubtful anyone will pay for them and we'll be wanting to improve.
I say all that as a usually harsh critic of the way our club operates but in this circumstance I don't think they've done too much wrong (bar previous errors like Ozil's monster contract and signing subpar defenders).
posted on 14/2/20
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 1 hour, 30 minutes ago
Remember when people blame Wenger for letting run contracts down. Nothing you can't do about it. Sell them in time for good money and move on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
GT, there are things you can do about it. But it requires being proactive and not taking your eye off the ball (proverbially).
As a general rule of thumb (and I appreciate with some cases it isn't that simple especially with youth), you should look to renegotiate terms with a player when they have 2 years left on their contract (to protect their value if nothing else). If they are reluctant to sign, sell them and bring a replacement in.
It doesn't matter how good a player is - if that player isn't committed to the club, then get rid.
posted on 14/2/20
comment by Scruttocks (U19684)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
Pierre Emerick-Aubameyang
Bukayo Saka
Mesut Ozil
David Luiz
Sokratis
Shkodran Mustafi
That list is somewhat understandable.
Auba will want huge money but is getting on and we could end up stuck with a declining player taking up massive wages.
Ozil is simply overpaid, nothing can be done now.
Saka has only just broke through, it would be foolish to have signed up youngsters on big money long term contracts until they've actually done something.
The others, well it would be a mistake to tie them up on long contracts because it's doubtful anyone will pay for them and we'll be wanting to improve.
I say all that as a usually harsh critic of the way our club operates but in this circumstance I don't think they've done too much wrong (bar previous errors like Ozil's monster contract and signing subpar defenders).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand that contract negotiations aren't easy and there are multifaceted issues to take into account. But if that's the case, don't assertively claim that players are going to stop running their contract down if you can't guarantee it. Raul clearly said that to appease the fans.
As stated earlier, we should have tried to sort out Auba's contractual situation last Summer if we knew he only had 2 years left on his deal. Now it's looking like it won't be sorted until the Summer, where he has more control over what to do.
People talk about his age, but he is a natural goalscorer, who rarely gets injured, and hasn't showed any signs of slowing down. There are plenty of strikers in their 30s that can perform at the top level. Age should only be a factor if you can see a decline in performance. There's been no tangible evidence of that.
The only CB I would be interested in keeping is Luiz. He's performed well under Arteta, has a unique distribution range and is a really influential figure on/off the pitch.
With younger players, it's a tricky one to manoeuvre. On one hand, you don't want to give them lucrative wages for a breakthrough season and let them dictate terms from an early age. On the other hand, you have to pay market rate to retain these players if you don't want them flourishing at other clubs.
Most people who have watched Saka have said he's the most talented prospect from all the Hale End youth. And that he is the one who looks most likely to become world class. He's 18 and has 8 assists for us this year, despite not being a regular starter, playing under 3 different managers and having been forced to play out of position.
It's a difficult balance to get. We cannot risk letting a player that good leave though. Unless he and his agent are asking for outrageous money. Baring in mind he's on £3,000 a week.
posted on 14/2/20
Raul changed the way contracts are done for players coming in after he joined. These contracts were from before he joined.
The real problem is not not learning from our past mistakes but the cheapskate owner not investing in the team. He's got billions richer in the time he's owned Arsenal but last year our actual spend on players was £38m if you dont include the £50m owing on Pepe that they said was coming out of future transfer funds. Buy cut price players and they wont all be good. we've done well with the likes of Torreira, Martinelli and Guendouzi.although they still have to prove they are top players (less so Martinelli) and we still have massive unaddressed issues to resolve, most notably quicker transition in midfield.
posted on 15/2/20
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 1 day, 8 hours ago
Remember when people blame Wenger for letting run contracts down. Nothing you can't do about it. Sell them in time for good money and move on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, guess it turns out they were wrong to do so huh. given that he's been gone nearly two years and it's still happening.
posted on 15/2/20
Saka's is the only one of those players I care about keeping. Auba, not bothered, great if he stays, good luck to him if he goes. Sokratis and Mustafi, fine so long as they're replaced with better. Ozil I want gone NOW. His stank ass is the big hurdle for ALL club negotiations at the moment.
Sorry OP you actually can't discuss our contracts situation, leaving out Ozil. He is at the centre of our contract problems at the moment. The financial drain is obvious. But this is about how his contract influences the other players whilst completely undermining the negotiating position of the club. Every single player due to negotiate, can point to how utterly sh!t Ozil has been and be well within their rights to demand not a penny less, than 150k a week for their services. MORE than justifiable, based on what we pay Ozil for his performances.
We will get either hauled over the coals or lose a player for chump change, with EVERY SINGLE reneg deal from now until Ozil is gone. As long as he's here, the club hasn't got a leg to stand on when negotiating with any of the others. None of you would put up with him getting 350k and you only 20 or 30 if you were bloody XHAKA let alone Saka. So dunno why anyone is expecting our players (especially the ones shining) to put up with that sh!t either. I swear, the quicker Ozil's blindass fanboys learn to see and become his booboys to get him out of here, the better. We shoulda sent his ass home last season and told him to feckin stay there! We WOULD be better off for it.
posted on 15/2/20
I didn't go into depth about Ozil because everyone unanimously agrees he shouldn't be at the club and his wages are a huge problem. It's been discussed to death.
What's the point of talking about something where everyone will be a broken record?
posted on 15/2/20
Because you have to when talking about how woeful the current negotiating at the club is. His deal is almost certainly a huge part of why we're struggling to get signatures. People are questioning the regime etc, whilst not factoring in the Ozil elephant. Our new people are hamstrung in negotiations BY his contract, in the way I've mentioned. So it's harsh for anyone really to be critical of the player contracts situation and having a go. And needless for anyone to be asking why we're still losing players.
We are losing them because thanks to Ozil's presence, nobody worth keeping is is willing to accept less than 150-200k a week MINIMUM. And we can't pay them that much. Raul didn't get where he has by being a weak negotiator. The problem is that even he, with his super agent skills, is rendered powerless. The second a player says "You pay Ozil 350 and he's been horrendous." It's indefensible as a position and we are losing and wil lose, the negotiation EVERY time.
That secondary impact of his contract, is the one most fans have been overlooking. Thus they sit blaming negotiators for not being able to negotiate from a stonewall LOSS position. And why so many of those said fans are JUST AS CULPABLE for the mess at the club, as the previous regime. Ozil only got that contract because a large number of fans ignorant to that effect, howling for it. I remember distinctly the fuss about how we couldn't possibly let Ozil leave the club and Wenger had to keep him whatever the cost. Despite fans like myself warning he damn sure wasn't worth it and it would hamstring us when negotiating with others.
So nah, stuff quietly brushing it aside and allowing his fanboys to quietly grumble reluctant admittance he should leave. Ozil is at the centre of our contract problems and each of those fans is responsible for that. Make em know it. They been loud enough about how great he supposedly was over the YEARS of sh!t he's given. They deserve every bit of reminding he is sh!t and because of them demanding h!s sh!t, their club is now FECKED! It sickens me the players that have been booed whilst he's been critique Teflon thanks to those fanboys. They deserve every bit of humble pie regarding the damage he has done and is STILL doing. After helping turn our club into the biggest cautionary tale about dumb contracts, in PL football history! All in that has done us for a good 100 mil.
Page 2 of 2