comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 1 minute ago
Martin Samuel is spot on. The monopoly of Liverpool and United still e sits, but thankfully it has bern diminished. Cubs spending must be controlled, I agree on that, but not at the expense of making the league non competitive. We dont want a two team league as in Spsin and Scotland .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
4 different winners in 6 years since FFP. Name another league like that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think there still needs to be serious redistribution of the wealth in the game though.
A huge chunk of the TV money, in particular, should be directed to grassroots and clubs lower down the professional food chain.
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, ... (U1859)
posted 32 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 21 minutes ago
Money or not the requirement is still to have good ownership leadership and management.
Look at Utd and Arsenal. Resources way bigger than most above them but the likes of Leicester Wolves and even Shefd Utd currently bettering them
The difficulty is that the traditional big clubs are still the big draw so will often pick apart the upcoming teams taking their players and coaches.
Chelsea used to stockpile players and it seemed they bought them to stop others having them
Overall FFP will see the rich get richer. I think it needs to work alongside other rules that do cap wages as a % of revenue and perhaps squad size. While that might mean the rich have bigger budget anyway inevitably they pay the highest wages so player A might expect Spurs to pay him £100k while Utd would offer the same player £150k. Same player same quality but different impact on wage budget. Within that structure perhaps their should be a ceiling cap. so say 60% of revenue or £200m, which ever is the lower value. Individual salary caps will not work. Any approach needs to be european wide. and the effect you want is to better distribute the quality players rather than some teams playing fantasy football with a much bigger unlimited budgets than the competition.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would imagine Wolves own spending would be interesting reading. There must be question mark over them. But the point is the unsustainability, yes we can look at an individual season for clubs like Sheff United, but only Leicester one could argue and Spurs have been able to make a sustained challenge to United,City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Opportunity is there for teams though. Take Leicester, they look like they will finish top 4, with that next season will come an increased budget to work with, and youd think an opportunity to attract a higher calibre of player. Thats not to say they will do it, they could spend money and new signings might not work out but the chance will be there for them. The point is an opportunity presents itself for them to build.
FFP had to happen. The levels that city and psg were taking things to were out of control and dangerous for the game. FFP has to an extent put a bit of a strangle hold on that. I see no evidence of this "rich getting richer" tab that we see constantly being banded. Plenty of other sides have come to the fore across europe, atletico, dortmund, napoli whilst elites have struggled, man utd, ac milan to name a couple. FFP encourages teams to be smarter about their off field business instead of just lobbing money at things.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with the idea of FFP to prevent reckless spending that threarebs5tgecexustence if the club. That us crucial. I dont however buy the self sustaining argument.
FFP is just there to protect the established elite, those clubs that generate the most money for UEFA, FIFA or whoever. Everything is geared towards maximizing revenues, and that means looking after their favourite clubs.
City are seen as the upstarts who came along and gatecrashed the establishment, that has not gone down well with the powers that be.
This is why City and Spurs are treated less favourably than the other `top 6` clubs, they came along and infiltrated the United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Pool cartel, which went down like a cup of cold sick.
comment by rosso is done with this (U17054)
posted 32 minutes ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 1 minute ago
Martin Samuel is spot on. The monopoly of Liverpool and United still e sits, but thankfully it has bern diminished. Cubs spending must be controlled, I agree on that, but not at the expense of making the league non competitive. We dont want a two team league as in Spsin and Scotland .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
4 different winners in 6 years since FFP. Name another league like that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think there still needs to be serious redistribution of the wealth in the game though.
A huge chunk of the TV money, in particular, should be directed to grassroots and clubs lower down the professional food chain.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since 1998, apart from Leicester, name the different title winning clubs
comment by rosso is done with this (U17054)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 1 minute ago
Martin Samuel is spot on. The monopoly of Liverpool and United still e sits, but thankfully it has bern diminished. Cubs spending must be controlled, I agree on that, but not at the expense of making the league non competitive. We dont want a two team league as in Spsin and Scotland .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
4 different winners in 6 years since FFP. Name another league like that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think there still needs to be serious redistribution of the wealth in the game though.
A huge chunk of the TV money, in particular, should be directed to grassroots and clubs lower down the professional food chain.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The only people who don't think that are the fackers who run the game.
Its insane that 3rd/4th tier clubs can face winding up petitions over less than some Prem players earn in a week.
I'll save you the time...Arsenal, Unite, City and Chelsea
And what has FFP done for the league in Spain, France, Italy and Germany..?
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 3 minutes ago
And what has FFP done for the league in Spain, France, Italy and Germany..?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well we have seen atletico win la liga and compete in 2 champions league finals since ffp. Monaco won a league in france where without FFP paris wouldve been untouchable. Italy has obviously been a monopoly but what you have seen is teams like napoli and roma competing for champs league places whilst traditional "elite" clubs like the milans have faltered time and time again. Germany admittedley has been monopolized also but could you honestly say without FFP it be any different? Id argue without FFP wed never have seen atletico have the success theyve had, nor would milan be languishing where they are. They would have just cherry picked the best from the rest and cemented themselves back alongside juventus.
Ac milan are a great example of the elite not being protected. They are a monster of a club but have struggled for years now because they business decisions have been poor. They have been out thought by teams like napoli roma atalanta. Their "elite" status has served them no favours.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 1 hour, 47 minutes ago
Martin Samuel is spot on. The monopoly of Liverpool and United still e sits, but thankfully it has bern diminished. Cubs spending must be controlled, I agree on that, but not at the expense of making the league non competitive. We dont want a two team league as in Spsin and Scotland .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree. Of course there can always be clubs that have a season or two breaking in but with FFP, they aren't allowed to build on that, the clubs who already have a bigger income are allowed to spend to over take them again. City and Chelsea got in at just the right time. You're unlikely to see another added to the big six, becoming a big club. FFP isn't a fair system, in my opinion. If you introduced max wages and max transfer spend, that would be much fairer, as everybody is allowed to spend the same amount. However fairness is not what they're aiming for, that's not what makes the most money. It's about keeping the big clubs and countries at the top, hence FFP and nations competiting in Europe now getting their positions cemented, rather than using coeffieicent. Even coefficient was somewhat flawed, due to seedings, which again favours the bigger clubs and makes it difficult for the smaller ones but at least there was some kind of chance.
*insert paragraphs and grammar
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 1 hour, 47 minutes ago
Martin Samuel is spot on. The monopoly of Liverpool and United still e sits, but thankfully it has bern diminished. Cubs spending must be controlled, I agree on that, but not at the expense of making the league non competitive. We dont want a two team league as in Spsin and Scotland .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree. Of course there can always be clubs that have a season or two breaking in but with FFP, they aren't allowed to build on that, the clubs who already have a bigger income are allowed to spend to over take them again. City and Chelsea got in at just the right time. You're unlikely to see another added to the big six, becoming a big club. FFP isn't a fair system, in my opinion. If you introduced max wages and max transfer spend, that would be much fairer, as everybody is allowed to spend the same amount. However fairness is not what they're aiming for, that's not what makes the most money. It's about keeping the big clubs and countries at the top, hence FFP and nations competiting in Europe now getting their positions cemented, rather than using coeffieicent. Even coefficient was somewhat flawed, due to seedings, which again favours the bigger clubs and makes it difficult for the smaller ones but at least there was some kind of chance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Id agree FFP isnt perfect and yes a salary transfer cap would be much better but surely ffp is better than nothing?
To pick up on 1 point, why dont teams have the opportunity to kick on? Again leicester, if they make top 4 this season which looks likely, they will increase their summer budget, surely that is the chance to kick on? Its not beyond reality to suggest that leciester will have a bigger budget than arsenal this coming summer. Wolves are another who appear hugely ambitious and if they manage to sneak in ive no doubts theyll take advantage of the extra revenue and look to kick on.
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, ... (U1859)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 3 minutes ago
And what has FFP done for the league in Spain, France, Italy and Germany..?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well we have seen atletico win la liga and compete in 2 champions league finals since ffp. Monaco won a league in france where without FFP paris wouldve been untouchable. Italy has obviously been a monopoly but what you have seen is teams like napoli and roma competing for champs league places whilst traditional "elite" clubs like the milans have faltered time and time again. Germany admittedley has been monopolized also but could you honestly say without FFP it be any different? Id argue without FFP wed never have seen atletico have the success theyve had, nor would milan be languishing where they are. They would have just cherry picked the best from the rest and cemented themselves back alongside juventus.
Ac milan are a great example of the elite not being protected. They are a monster of a club but have struggled for years now because they business decisions have been poor. They have been out thought by teams like napoli roma atalanta. Their "elite" status has served them no favours.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anectodal slaterrings, but the trend in trhese leagues is crystal clear
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, ... (U1859)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 3 minutes ago
And what has FFP done for the league in Spain, France, Italy and Germany..?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well we have seen atletico win la liga and compete in 2 champions league finals since ffp. Monaco won a league in france where without FFP paris wouldve been untouchable. Italy has obviously been a monopoly but what you have seen is teams like napoli and roma competing for champs league places whilst traditional "elite" clubs like the milans have faltered time and time again. Germany admittedley has been monopolized also but could you honestly say without FFP it be any different? Id argue without FFP wed never have seen atletico have the success theyve had, nor would milan be languishing where they are. They would have just cherry picked the best from the rest and cemented themselves back alongside juventus.
Ac milan are a great example of the elite not being protected. They are a monster of a club but have struggled for years now because they business decisions have been poor. They have been out thought by teams like napoli roma atalanta. Their "elite" status has served them no favours.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anectodal slaterrings, but the trend in trhese leagues is crystal clear
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But what would you have expected to see without FFP? Wed have madrid doing their "galactico" sprees every year. Paris and city spending to levels never seen before probably leading to a complete monopoly in england. The worlds biggest clubs would still be spending the biggest amounts there would just be no control to the levels. The rest would be left for dead.
Madrid still spend huge amounts but as we've seen last few years theyve had to offset that by selling big players too.
A salary and tranfer cap is of course the fairest way to go about things but its never going to happen unfortunately. FFP is without doubt better for the game than nothing.
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, ... (U1859)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, ... (U1859)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 3 minutes ago
And what has FFP done for the league in Spain, France, Italy and Germany..?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well we have seen atletico win la liga and compete in 2 champions league finals since ffp. Monaco won a league in france where without FFP paris wouldve been untouchable. Italy has obviously been a monopoly but what you have seen is teams like napoli and roma competing for champs league places whilst traditional "elite" clubs like the milans have faltered time and time again. Germany admittedley has been monopolized also but could you honestly say without FFP it be any different? Id argue without FFP wed never have seen atletico have the success theyve had, nor would milan be languishing where they are. They would have just cherry picked the best from the rest and cemented themselves back alongside juventus.
Ac milan are a great example of the elite not being protected. They are a monster of a club but have struggled for years now because they business decisions have been poor. They have been out thought by teams like napoli roma atalanta. Their "elite" status has served them no favours.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anectodal slaterrings, but the trend in trhese leagues is crystal clear
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But what would you have expected to see without FFP? Wed have madrid doing their "galactico" sprees every year. Paris and city spending to levels never seen before probably leading to a complete monopoly in england. The worlds biggest clubs would still be spending the biggest amounts there would just be no control to the levels. The rest would be left for dead.
Madrid still spend huge amounts but as we've seen last few years theyve had to offset that by selling big players too.
A salary and tranfer cap is of course the fairest way to go about things but its never going to happen unfortunately. FFP is without doubt better for the game than nothing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess i don't see that FFP is the reason for those sporadic successes by other clubs.
When Derby County, Forest and Villa won titles and European Cups there was no FFP
I think the application of FFP is inconsistent and i think if City have good lawyers, they will be able to prove this theory
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, ... (U1859)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, ... (U1859)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 3 minutes ago
And what has FFP done for the league in Spain, France, Italy and Germany..?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well we have seen atletico win la liga and compete in 2 champions league finals since ffp. Monaco won a league in france where without FFP paris wouldve been untouchable. Italy has obviously been a monopoly but what you have seen is teams like napoli and roma competing for champs league places whilst traditional "elite" clubs like the milans have faltered time and time again. Germany admittedley has been monopolized also but could you honestly say without FFP it be any different? Id argue without FFP wed never have seen atletico have the success theyve had, nor would milan be languishing where they are. They would have just cherry picked the best from the rest and cemented themselves back alongside juventus.
Ac milan are a great example of the elite not being protected. They are a monster of a club but have struggled for years now because they business decisions have been poor. They have been out thought by teams like napoli roma atalanta. Their "elite" status has served them no favours.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anectodal slaterrings, but the trend in trhese leagues is crystal clear
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But what would you have expected to see without FFP? Wed have madrid doing their "galactico" sprees every year. Paris and city spending to levels never seen before probably leading to a complete monopoly in england. The worlds biggest clubs would still be spending the biggest amounts there would just be no control to the levels. The rest would be left for dead.
Madrid still spend huge amounts but as we've seen last few years theyve had to offset that by selling big players too.
A salary and tranfer cap is of course the fairest way to go about things but its never going to happen unfortunately. FFP is without doubt better for the game than nothing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess i don't see that FFP is the reason for those sporadic successes by other clubs.
When Derby County, Forest and Villa won titles and European Cups there was no FFP
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Derby, Forest and Villa winning leagues and European cups was just as sporadic.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 17 minutes ago
I think the application of FFP is inconsistent and i think if City have good lawyers, they will be able to prove this theory
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont disagree with you there. I think we can agree to disagree on the FFP front. I dare say this will rumble on for months anyway.
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, ... (U1859)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, ... (U1859)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 3 minutes ago
And what has FFP done for the league in Spain, France, Italy and Germany..?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well we have seen atletico win la liga and compete in 2 champions league finals since ffp. Monaco won a league in france where without FFP paris wouldve been untouchable. Italy has obviously been a monopoly but what you have seen is teams like napoli and roma competing for champs league places whilst traditional "elite" clubs like the milans have faltered time and time again. Germany admittedley has been monopolized also but could you honestly say without FFP it be any different? Id argue without FFP wed never have seen atletico have the success theyve had, nor would milan be languishing where they are. They would have just cherry picked the best from the rest and cemented themselves back alongside juventus.
Ac milan are a great example of the elite not being protected. They are a monster of a club but have struggled for years now because they business decisions have been poor. They have been out thought by teams like napoli roma atalanta. Their "elite" status has served them no favours.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anectodal slaterrings, but the trend in trhese leagues is crystal clear
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But what would you have expected to see without FFP? Wed have madrid doing their "galactico" sprees every year. Paris and city spending to levels never seen before probably leading to a complete monopoly in england. The worlds biggest clubs would still be spending the biggest amounts there would just be no control to the levels. The rest would be left for dead.
Madrid still spend huge amounts but as we've seen last few years theyve had to offset that by selling big players too.
A salary and tranfer cap is of course the fairest way to go about things but its never going to happen unfortunately. FFP is without doubt better for the game than nothing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess i don't see that FFP is the reason for those sporadic successes by other clubs.
When Derby County, Forest and Villa won titles and European Cups there was no FFP
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Derby, Forest and Villa winning leagues and European cups was just as sporadic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And that is my point...i see no correlation to FFP and the sporadic success of clubs outide the big 6...
comment by Prankster - Unbeaten and Unbearable Super World European Champions (U6283)
posted 6 hours, 11 minutes ago
comment by Holland's big brother Europe (U1250)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Prankster - Unbeaten and Unbearable Super World European Champions (U6283)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Holland's big brother Europe (U1250)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Prankster - Unbeaten and Unbearable Super World European Champions (U6283)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Holland's big brother Europe (U1250)
posted 8 minutes ago
FFP helps prevent teams from spending above their means
----------------------------------------
City never spent above their means under the Sheikh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah that’s because of the fake sponsorship deals which have been sussed out, hence the ban.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ll have to excuse the no mark not being fully aware of the situation. All this took place years before he started supporting City.
When glory hunting goes wrong
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You really are not a smart bunch
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Coming from you that’s a compliment
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ttliv says City did spend above their means, you say City didn't.
Yet I am the dumb one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They did via bogus sponsorship deals, read my post ffs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, lets for a minute stop here. For me, as a Dutchman, above your means, mean spending more than you have. City didnt spend more than they had, they actually have the money.
FFP means that they cannot spend more than they bring in through revenue and sponsors. Thats what they did. But they didnt spend above their means.
comment by Holland's big brother Europe (U1250)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by Prankster - Unbeaten and Unbearable Super World European Champions (U6283)
posted 6 hours, 11 minutes ago
comment by Holland's big brother Europe (U1250)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Prankster - Unbeaten and Unbearable Super World European Champions (U6283)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Holland's big brother Europe (U1250)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Prankster - Unbeaten and Unbearable Super World European Champions (U6283)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Holland's big brother Europe (U1250)
posted 8 minutes ago
FFP helps prevent teams from spending above their means
----------------------------------------
City never spent above their means under the Sheikh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah that’s because of the fake sponsorship deals which have been sussed out, hence the ban.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ll have to excuse the no mark not being fully aware of the situation. All this took place years before he started supporting City.
When glory hunting goes wrong
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You really are not a smart bunch
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Coming from you that’s a compliment
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ttliv says City did spend above their means, you say City didn't.
Yet I am the dumb one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They did via bogus sponsorship deals, read my post ffs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, lets for a minute stop here. For me, as a Dutchman, above your means, mean spending more than you have. City didnt spend more than they had, they actually have the money.
FFP means that they cannot spend more than they bring in through revenue and sponsors. Thats what they did. But they didnt spend above their means.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Above their means as in club income not the amount of money the owners have idiot. City signed a sponsorship deal with Etihad, for shirts, training ground and stadium, that Mansour is alleged to have contributed the money to, minus £8m from Etihad.
Club income was inflated by Mansour through dodgy sponsorship they wanted to be kept hidden.
Take it you’re supporting Barca again next season
If the owners put money in the club, its the club's money. Thats how I see it, idiot.
Sign in if you want to comment
FFP is a good thing
Page 3 of 4
posted on 15/2/20
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 1 minute ago
Martin Samuel is spot on. The monopoly of Liverpool and United still e sits, but thankfully it has bern diminished. Cubs spending must be controlled, I agree on that, but not at the expense of making the league non competitive. We dont want a two team league as in Spsin and Scotland .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
4 different winners in 6 years since FFP. Name another league like that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think there still needs to be serious redistribution of the wealth in the game though.
A huge chunk of the TV money, in particular, should be directed to grassroots and clubs lower down the professional food chain.
posted on 15/2/20
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, ... (U1859)
posted 32 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 21 minutes ago
Money or not the requirement is still to have good ownership leadership and management.
Look at Utd and Arsenal. Resources way bigger than most above them but the likes of Leicester Wolves and even Shefd Utd currently bettering them
The difficulty is that the traditional big clubs are still the big draw so will often pick apart the upcoming teams taking their players and coaches.
Chelsea used to stockpile players and it seemed they bought them to stop others having them
Overall FFP will see the rich get richer. I think it needs to work alongside other rules that do cap wages as a % of revenue and perhaps squad size. While that might mean the rich have bigger budget anyway inevitably they pay the highest wages so player A might expect Spurs to pay him £100k while Utd would offer the same player £150k. Same player same quality but different impact on wage budget. Within that structure perhaps their should be a ceiling cap. so say 60% of revenue or £200m, which ever is the lower value. Individual salary caps will not work. Any approach needs to be european wide. and the effect you want is to better distribute the quality players rather than some teams playing fantasy football with a much bigger unlimited budgets than the competition.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would imagine Wolves own spending would be interesting reading. There must be question mark over them. But the point is the unsustainability, yes we can look at an individual season for clubs like Sheff United, but only Leicester one could argue and Spurs have been able to make a sustained challenge to United,City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Opportunity is there for teams though. Take Leicester, they look like they will finish top 4, with that next season will come an increased budget to work with, and youd think an opportunity to attract a higher calibre of player. Thats not to say they will do it, they could spend money and new signings might not work out but the chance will be there for them. The point is an opportunity presents itself for them to build.
FFP had to happen. The levels that city and psg were taking things to were out of control and dangerous for the game. FFP has to an extent put a bit of a strangle hold on that. I see no evidence of this "rich getting richer" tab that we see constantly being banded. Plenty of other sides have come to the fore across europe, atletico, dortmund, napoli whilst elites have struggled, man utd, ac milan to name a couple. FFP encourages teams to be smarter about their off field business instead of just lobbing money at things.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with the idea of FFP to prevent reckless spending that threarebs5tgecexustence if the club. That us crucial. I dont however buy the self sustaining argument.
posted on 15/2/20
FFP is just there to protect the established elite, those clubs that generate the most money for UEFA, FIFA or whoever. Everything is geared towards maximizing revenues, and that means looking after their favourite clubs.
City are seen as the upstarts who came along and gatecrashed the establishment, that has not gone down well with the powers that be.
This is why City and Spurs are treated less favourably than the other `top 6` clubs, they came along and infiltrated the United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Pool cartel, which went down like a cup of cold sick.
posted on 15/2/20
comment by rosso is done with this (U17054)
posted 32 minutes ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 1 minute ago
Martin Samuel is spot on. The monopoly of Liverpool and United still e sits, but thankfully it has bern diminished. Cubs spending must be controlled, I agree on that, but not at the expense of making the league non competitive. We dont want a two team league as in Spsin and Scotland .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
4 different winners in 6 years since FFP. Name another league like that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think there still needs to be serious redistribution of the wealth in the game though.
A huge chunk of the TV money, in particular, should be directed to grassroots and clubs lower down the professional food chain.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since 1998, apart from Leicester, name the different title winning clubs
posted on 15/2/20
comment by rosso is done with this (U17054)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 1 minute ago
Martin Samuel is spot on. The monopoly of Liverpool and United still e sits, but thankfully it has bern diminished. Cubs spending must be controlled, I agree on that, but not at the expense of making the league non competitive. We dont want a two team league as in Spsin and Scotland .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
4 different winners in 6 years since FFP. Name another league like that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think there still needs to be serious redistribution of the wealth in the game though.
A huge chunk of the TV money, in particular, should be directed to grassroots and clubs lower down the professional food chain.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The only people who don't think that are the fackers who run the game.
Its insane that 3rd/4th tier clubs can face winding up petitions over less than some Prem players earn in a week.
posted on 15/2/20
I'll save you the time...Arsenal, Unite, City and Chelsea
posted on 15/2/20
And what has FFP done for the league in Spain, France, Italy and Germany..?
posted on 15/2/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 15/2/20
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 3 minutes ago
And what has FFP done for the league in Spain, France, Italy and Germany..?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well we have seen atletico win la liga and compete in 2 champions league finals since ffp. Monaco won a league in france where without FFP paris wouldve been untouchable. Italy has obviously been a monopoly but what you have seen is teams like napoli and roma competing for champs league places whilst traditional "elite" clubs like the milans have faltered time and time again. Germany admittedley has been monopolized also but could you honestly say without FFP it be any different? Id argue without FFP wed never have seen atletico have the success theyve had, nor would milan be languishing where they are. They would have just cherry picked the best from the rest and cemented themselves back alongside juventus.
Ac milan are a great example of the elite not being protected. They are a monster of a club but have struggled for years now because they business decisions have been poor. They have been out thought by teams like napoli roma atalanta. Their "elite" status has served them no favours.
posted on 15/2/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 15/2/20
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 1 hour, 47 minutes ago
Martin Samuel is spot on. The monopoly of Liverpool and United still e sits, but thankfully it has bern diminished. Cubs spending must be controlled, I agree on that, but not at the expense of making the league non competitive. We dont want a two team league as in Spsin and Scotland .
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I agree. Of course there can always be clubs that have a season or two breaking in but with FFP, they aren't allowed to build on that, the clubs who already have a bigger income are allowed to spend to over take them again. City and Chelsea got in at just the right time. You're unlikely to see another added to the big six, becoming a big club. FFP isn't a fair system, in my opinion. If you introduced max wages and max transfer spend, that would be much fairer, as everybody is allowed to spend the same amount. However fairness is not what they're aiming for, that's not what makes the most money. It's about keeping the big clubs and countries at the top, hence FFP and nations competiting in Europe now getting their positions cemented, rather than using coeffieicent. Even coefficient was somewhat flawed, due to seedings, which again favours the bigger clubs and makes it difficult for the smaller ones but at least there was some kind of chance.
posted on 15/2/20
*insert paragraphs and grammar
posted on 15/2/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 15/2/20
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 1 hour, 47 minutes ago
Martin Samuel is spot on. The monopoly of Liverpool and United still e sits, but thankfully it has bern diminished. Cubs spending must be controlled, I agree on that, but not at the expense of making the league non competitive. We dont want a two team league as in Spsin and Scotland .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree. Of course there can always be clubs that have a season or two breaking in but with FFP, they aren't allowed to build on that, the clubs who already have a bigger income are allowed to spend to over take them again. City and Chelsea got in at just the right time. You're unlikely to see another added to the big six, becoming a big club. FFP isn't a fair system, in my opinion. If you introduced max wages and max transfer spend, that would be much fairer, as everybody is allowed to spend the same amount. However fairness is not what they're aiming for, that's not what makes the most money. It's about keeping the big clubs and countries at the top, hence FFP and nations competiting in Europe now getting their positions cemented, rather than using coeffieicent. Even coefficient was somewhat flawed, due to seedings, which again favours the bigger clubs and makes it difficult for the smaller ones but at least there was some kind of chance.
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Id agree FFP isnt perfect and yes a salary transfer cap would be much better but surely ffp is better than nothing?
To pick up on 1 point, why dont teams have the opportunity to kick on? Again leicester, if they make top 4 this season which looks likely, they will increase their summer budget, surely that is the chance to kick on? Its not beyond reality to suggest that leciester will have a bigger budget than arsenal this coming summer. Wolves are another who appear hugely ambitious and if they manage to sneak in ive no doubts theyll take advantage of the extra revenue and look to kick on.
posted on 15/2/20
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, ... (U1859)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 3 minutes ago
And what has FFP done for the league in Spain, France, Italy and Germany..?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well we have seen atletico win la liga and compete in 2 champions league finals since ffp. Monaco won a league in france where without FFP paris wouldve been untouchable. Italy has obviously been a monopoly but what you have seen is teams like napoli and roma competing for champs league places whilst traditional "elite" clubs like the milans have faltered time and time again. Germany admittedley has been monopolized also but could you honestly say without FFP it be any different? Id argue without FFP wed never have seen atletico have the success theyve had, nor would milan be languishing where they are. They would have just cherry picked the best from the rest and cemented themselves back alongside juventus.
Ac milan are a great example of the elite not being protected. They are a monster of a club but have struggled for years now because they business decisions have been poor. They have been out thought by teams like napoli roma atalanta. Their "elite" status has served them no favours.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anectodal slaterrings, but the trend in trhese leagues is crystal clear
posted on 15/2/20
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, ... (U1859)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 3 minutes ago
And what has FFP done for the league in Spain, France, Italy and Germany..?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well we have seen atletico win la liga and compete in 2 champions league finals since ffp. Monaco won a league in france where without FFP paris wouldve been untouchable. Italy has obviously been a monopoly but what you have seen is teams like napoli and roma competing for champs league places whilst traditional "elite" clubs like the milans have faltered time and time again. Germany admittedley has been monopolized also but could you honestly say without FFP it be any different? Id argue without FFP wed never have seen atletico have the success theyve had, nor would milan be languishing where they are. They would have just cherry picked the best from the rest and cemented themselves back alongside juventus.
Ac milan are a great example of the elite not being protected. They are a monster of a club but have struggled for years now because they business decisions have been poor. They have been out thought by teams like napoli roma atalanta. Their "elite" status has served them no favours.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anectodal slaterrings, but the trend in trhese leagues is crystal clear
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But what would you have expected to see without FFP? Wed have madrid doing their "galactico" sprees every year. Paris and city spending to levels never seen before probably leading to a complete monopoly in england. The worlds biggest clubs would still be spending the biggest amounts there would just be no control to the levels. The rest would be left for dead.
Madrid still spend huge amounts but as we've seen last few years theyve had to offset that by selling big players too.
A salary and tranfer cap is of course the fairest way to go about things but its never going to happen unfortunately. FFP is without doubt better for the game than nothing.
posted on 15/2/20
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, ... (U1859)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, ... (U1859)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 3 minutes ago
And what has FFP done for the league in Spain, France, Italy and Germany..?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well we have seen atletico win la liga and compete in 2 champions league finals since ffp. Monaco won a league in france where without FFP paris wouldve been untouchable. Italy has obviously been a monopoly but what you have seen is teams like napoli and roma competing for champs league places whilst traditional "elite" clubs like the milans have faltered time and time again. Germany admittedley has been monopolized also but could you honestly say without FFP it be any different? Id argue without FFP wed never have seen atletico have the success theyve had, nor would milan be languishing where they are. They would have just cherry picked the best from the rest and cemented themselves back alongside juventus.
Ac milan are a great example of the elite not being protected. They are a monster of a club but have struggled for years now because they business decisions have been poor. They have been out thought by teams like napoli roma atalanta. Their "elite" status has served them no favours.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anectodal slaterrings, but the trend in trhese leagues is crystal clear
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But what would you have expected to see without FFP? Wed have madrid doing their "galactico" sprees every year. Paris and city spending to levels never seen before probably leading to a complete monopoly in england. The worlds biggest clubs would still be spending the biggest amounts there would just be no control to the levels. The rest would be left for dead.
Madrid still spend huge amounts but as we've seen last few years theyve had to offset that by selling big players too.
A salary and tranfer cap is of course the fairest way to go about things but its never going to happen unfortunately. FFP is without doubt better for the game than nothing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess i don't see that FFP is the reason for those sporadic successes by other clubs.
When Derby County, Forest and Villa won titles and European Cups there was no FFP
posted on 15/2/20
I think the application of FFP is inconsistent and i think if City have good lawyers, they will be able to prove this theory
posted on 15/2/20
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, ... (U1859)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, ... (U1859)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 3 minutes ago
And what has FFP done for the league in Spain, France, Italy and Germany..?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well we have seen atletico win la liga and compete in 2 champions league finals since ffp. Monaco won a league in france where without FFP paris wouldve been untouchable. Italy has obviously been a monopoly but what you have seen is teams like napoli and roma competing for champs league places whilst traditional "elite" clubs like the milans have faltered time and time again. Germany admittedley has been monopolized also but could you honestly say without FFP it be any different? Id argue without FFP wed never have seen atletico have the success theyve had, nor would milan be languishing where they are. They would have just cherry picked the best from the rest and cemented themselves back alongside juventus.
Ac milan are a great example of the elite not being protected. They are a monster of a club but have struggled for years now because they business decisions have been poor. They have been out thought by teams like napoli roma atalanta. Their "elite" status has served them no favours.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anectodal slaterrings, but the trend in trhese leagues is crystal clear
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But what would you have expected to see without FFP? Wed have madrid doing their "galactico" sprees every year. Paris and city spending to levels never seen before probably leading to a complete monopoly in england. The worlds biggest clubs would still be spending the biggest amounts there would just be no control to the levels. The rest would be left for dead.
Madrid still spend huge amounts but as we've seen last few years theyve had to offset that by selling big players too.
A salary and tranfer cap is of course the fairest way to go about things but its never going to happen unfortunately. FFP is without doubt better for the game than nothing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess i don't see that FFP is the reason for those sporadic successes by other clubs.
When Derby County, Forest and Villa won titles and European Cups there was no FFP
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Derby, Forest and Villa winning leagues and European cups was just as sporadic.
posted on 15/2/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 15/2/20
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 17 minutes ago
I think the application of FFP is inconsistent and i think if City have good lawyers, they will be able to prove this theory
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont disagree with you there. I think we can agree to disagree on the FFP front. I dare say this will rumble on for months anyway.
posted on 15/2/20
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, ... (U1859)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, ... (U1859)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 3 minutes ago
And what has FFP done for the league in Spain, France, Italy and Germany..?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well we have seen atletico win la liga and compete in 2 champions league finals since ffp. Monaco won a league in france where without FFP paris wouldve been untouchable. Italy has obviously been a monopoly but what you have seen is teams like napoli and roma competing for champs league places whilst traditional "elite" clubs like the milans have faltered time and time again. Germany admittedley has been monopolized also but could you honestly say without FFP it be any different? Id argue without FFP wed never have seen atletico have the success theyve had, nor would milan be languishing where they are. They would have just cherry picked the best from the rest and cemented themselves back alongside juventus.
Ac milan are a great example of the elite not being protected. They are a monster of a club but have struggled for years now because they business decisions have been poor. They have been out thought by teams like napoli roma atalanta. Their "elite" status has served them no favours.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anectodal slaterrings, but the trend in trhese leagues is crystal clear
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But what would you have expected to see without FFP? Wed have madrid doing their "galactico" sprees every year. Paris and city spending to levels never seen before probably leading to a complete monopoly in england. The worlds biggest clubs would still be spending the biggest amounts there would just be no control to the levels. The rest would be left for dead.
Madrid still spend huge amounts but as we've seen last few years theyve had to offset that by selling big players too.
A salary and tranfer cap is of course the fairest way to go about things but its never going to happen unfortunately. FFP is without doubt better for the game than nothing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess i don't see that FFP is the reason for those sporadic successes by other clubs.
When Derby County, Forest and Villa won titles and European Cups there was no FFP
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Derby, Forest and Villa winning leagues and European cups was just as sporadic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And that is my point...i see no correlation to FFP and the sporadic success of clubs outide the big 6...
posted on 15/2/20
comment by Prankster - Unbeaten and Unbearable Super World European Champions (U6283)
posted 6 hours, 11 minutes ago
comment by Holland's big brother Europe (U1250)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Prankster - Unbeaten and Unbearable Super World European Champions (U6283)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Holland's big brother Europe (U1250)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Prankster - Unbeaten and Unbearable Super World European Champions (U6283)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Holland's big brother Europe (U1250)
posted 8 minutes ago
FFP helps prevent teams from spending above their means
----------------------------------------
City never spent above their means under the Sheikh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah that’s because of the fake sponsorship deals which have been sussed out, hence the ban.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ll have to excuse the no mark not being fully aware of the situation. All this took place years before he started supporting City.
When glory hunting goes wrong
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You really are not a smart bunch
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Coming from you that’s a compliment
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ttliv says City did spend above their means, you say City didn't.
Yet I am the dumb one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They did via bogus sponsorship deals, read my post ffs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, lets for a minute stop here. For me, as a Dutchman, above your means, mean spending more than you have. City didnt spend more than they had, they actually have the money.
FFP means that they cannot spend more than they bring in through revenue and sponsors. Thats what they did. But they didnt spend above their means.
posted on 15/2/20
comment by Holland's big brother Europe (U1250)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by Prankster - Unbeaten and Unbearable Super World European Champions (U6283)
posted 6 hours, 11 minutes ago
comment by Holland's big brother Europe (U1250)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Prankster - Unbeaten and Unbearable Super World European Champions (U6283)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Holland's big brother Europe (U1250)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Prankster - Unbeaten and Unbearable Super World European Champions (U6283)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Holland's big brother Europe (U1250)
posted 8 minutes ago
FFP helps prevent teams from spending above their means
----------------------------------------
City never spent above their means under the Sheikh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah that’s because of the fake sponsorship deals which have been sussed out, hence the ban.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ll have to excuse the no mark not being fully aware of the situation. All this took place years before he started supporting City.
When glory hunting goes wrong
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You really are not a smart bunch
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Coming from you that’s a compliment
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ttliv says City did spend above their means, you say City didn't.
Yet I am the dumb one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They did via bogus sponsorship deals, read my post ffs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, lets for a minute stop here. For me, as a Dutchman, above your means, mean spending more than you have. City didnt spend more than they had, they actually have the money.
FFP means that they cannot spend more than they bring in through revenue and sponsors. Thats what they did. But they didnt spend above their means.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Above their means as in club income not the amount of money the owners have idiot. City signed a sponsorship deal with Etihad, for shirts, training ground and stadium, that Mansour is alleged to have contributed the money to, minus £8m from Etihad.
Club income was inflated by Mansour through dodgy sponsorship they wanted to be kept hidden.
Take it you’re supporting Barca again next season
posted on 15/2/20
If the owners put money in the club, its the club's money. Thats how I see it, idiot.
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