comment by Arouna Jagielka oooh I wanna take ya, Heitinga Nikica come on pretty mama (U1308)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 38 seconds ago
Wage bills will play havoc with FFP next season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t be silly, FFP ensures that all clubs are on a level playing field.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Haha sure it does
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
comment by Arouna Jagielka oooh I wanna take ya, Heitinga Nikica come on pretty mama (U1308)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 38 seconds ago
Wage bills will play havoc with FFP next season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t be silly, FFP ensures that all clubs are on a level playing field.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Haha sure it does
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know, it’s loaded to prevent others making it to the top table.
comment by Arouna Jagielka oooh I wanna take ya, Heitinga Nikica come on pretty mama (U1308)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
comment by Arouna Jagielka oooh I wanna take ya, Heitinga Nikica come on pretty mama (U1308)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 38 seconds ago
Wage bills will play havoc with FFP next season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t be silly, FFP ensures that all clubs are on a level playing field.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Haha sure it does
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know, it’s loaded to prevent others making it to the top table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I alreasy assumed it was tongue-in-cheek
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Arouna Jagielka oooh I wanna take ya, Heitinga Nikica come on pretty mama (U1308)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
comment by Arouna Jagielka oooh I wanna take ya, Heitinga Nikica come on pretty mama (U1308)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 38 seconds ago
Wage bills will play havoc with FFP next season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t be silly, FFP ensures that all clubs are on a level playing field.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Haha sure it does
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know, it’s loaded to prevent others making it to the top table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I alreasy assumed it was tongue-in-cheek
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Realllllly.
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 3 hours, 7 minutes ago
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 1 hour ago
First thing they need to do before even starting to think about finishing the season is work out the contract issues as this is massive for some clubs. I think between 31st May and 30th June my own club would lose 13 players either through loans or contracts ending. Bolton have something crazy like 80% of their squad on one year deals that end on 30th June. Some might be happy to sign a new deal, but what if they're not?
Until this issue is resolved and a solution in place that all clubs can agree on, there is just no way it can go on, especially if some clubs can't even field a full subs bench.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's why the non pro league got cancelled outright.
They have a proposal that will allow contracts to be extended, if reports are to be believed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Devils advocate...What if some clubs don't want to extend those contracts? What if their plan from the start was to let those contracts run down as they desperately need to lower the wage bill and had planned to sign cheaper replacement free transfers in the summer? I know this probably seems alien to you as a supporter of one of the biggest teams in the world, but some clubs beneath you actually have to REALLY worry about wage budgets.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is you present scenarios where Covid is a big deal and other scenarios where it isn't. Make your mind up.
If Covid is serious enough for a 3-4 billion season to be scrapped then the clubs will just have to take it on the chin. They will be aware that some plans must change, especially player contracts.
This is covid, enough to cancel a season so I suspect dealing with one or two player contracts should be a piece of cake. Furthermore, the clubs might be receiving money to help them out. So many possibilities. Have to wait a few more weeks and see where we are.
Some people are saying scrap the season but still expect the transfer window to open and close as usual. Why? Some weird logic all over the place IMO.
Also, Covid is unprecedented so who knows what will be the legal status of contracts? Are players currently fulfilling by heir contracts? Are contracts also voided under the principle of frustration?
As I said, its a field of landmines and we have to wait before making plans.
“ Some people are saying scrap the season but still expect the transfer window to open and close as usual. Why? Some weird logic all over the place”
This is a good point.
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 3 hours, 7 minutes ago
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 1 hour ago
First thing they need to do before even starting to think about finishing the season is work out the contract issues as this is massive for some clubs. I think between 31st May and 30th June my own club would lose 13 players either through loans or contracts ending. Bolton have something crazy like 80% of their squad on one year deals that end on 30th June. Some might be happy to sign a new deal, but what if they're not?
Until this issue is resolved and a solution in place that all clubs can agree on, there is just no way it can go on, especially if some clubs can't even field a full subs bench.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's why the non pro league got cancelled outright.
They have a proposal that will allow contracts to be extended, if reports are to be believed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Devils advocate...What if some clubs don't want to extend those contracts? What if their plan from the start was to let those contracts run down as they desperately need to lower the wage bill and had planned to sign cheaper replacement free transfers in the summer? I know this probably seems alien to you as a supporter of one of the biggest teams in the world, but some clubs beneath you actually have to REALLY worry about wage budgets.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is you present scenarios where Covid is a big deal and other scenarios where it isn't. Make your mind up.
If Covid is serious enough for a 3-4 billion season to be scrapped then the clubs will just have to take it on the chin. They will be aware that some plans must change, especially player contracts.
This is covid, enough to cancel a season so I suspect dealing with one or two player contracts should be a piece of cake. Furthermore, the clubs might be receiving money to help them out. So many possibilities. Have to wait a few more weeks and see where we are.
Some people are saying scrap the season but still expect the transfer window to open and close as usual. Why? Some weird logic all over the place IMO.
Also, Covid is unprecedented so who knows what will be the legal status of contracts? Are players currently fulfilling by heir contracts? Are contracts also voided under the principle of frustration?
As I said, its a field of landmines and we have to wait before making plans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm merely trying to throw out the issues that are going to cause the problems going forward. Covid isn't going to mean that anything changes regarding employment law and you haven't really thought about the scenario o posted, which may very well be the case for more than a few clubs.
You can't just say "somethings will change, especially player contracts"...on what grounds are you going to tell a player whose contract has expired that he MUST sign another one without breaching pretty much all of that players' rights and more importantly, breaking the laws of the land?
As things stand, COVID-19 or not, most of Bolton Wanderers' squad, just as one example, are free to leave or be released on June 30th if the players or club wish. That isn't going to be changed, simple as that.
Honestly, have a look and see how many of their squad are able to leave or be released in 3 months time: https://www.transfermarkt.com/bolton-wanderers/kader/verein/355/saison_id/2019/plus/1
Even if someone was willing to pay those players' contracts til the season was completed, there's not a single thing anyone could do if the players didn't want to sign on or Bolton didn't want to keep them.
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 1 minute ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, that's what I thought. You're so convinced by your own argument to even see any kind of bigger picture or potential stumbling blocks.
I'm merely trying to throw out the issues that are going to cause the problems going forward. Covid isn't going to mean that anything changes regarding employment law and you haven't really thought about the scenario o posted, which may very well be the case for more than a few clubs.
------
Covid might mean temporary changes to employment law saan. In fact, I'd say that's guaranteed to happen, but to what extent is the question.
IMO its so early and the possibilities so many that it serves no purpose to speculate one way or the other at this time.
You can't just say "somethings will change, especially player contracts"...on what grounds are you going to tell a player whose contract has expired that he MUST sign another one without breaching pretty much all of that players' rights and more importantly, breaking the laws of the land?
=======
Players are already taking pay cuts and soon they will be forced to do so by some clubs.
After all, the players have not fulfilled their contracts either, have they? Football contracts are about providing a service which they have been unable to provide because of Covid. The season might be cancelled and overall their livelihood is at risk.
Perhaps they won't be forced to sign, I didn't say they would but solutions will be found. All parties will be interested in a solution. Player registration may be opened as and when required too.
So many possibilities.
Lots of countries may keep their travel bans enforced well into 2021.
We'll all have to buy off each other.
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 1 minute ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, that's what I thought. You're so convinced by your own argument to even see any kind of bigger picture or potential stumbling blocks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, that was directed at comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971) just above yours. I hadn't seen your post when I posted.
After taking in that info, go back and look at your reaction.
Calm down sugar. You're all over the place.
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 2 minutes ago
Lots of countries may keep their travel bans enforced well into 2021.
We'll all have to buy off each other.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For sure
As things stand, COVID-19 or not, most of Bolton Wanderers' squad, just as one example, are free to leave or be released on June 30th if the players or club wish. That isn't going to be changed, simple as that.
----
Technically, they are not fulfilling by their contracts at the minute. Perhaps they will need to do that after we have defeated Covid.
So many possibilities.
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 31 seconds ago
I'm merely trying to throw out the issues that are going to cause the problems going forward. Covid isn't going to mean that anything changes regarding employment law and you haven't really thought about the scenario o posted, which may very well be the case for more than a few clubs.
------
Covid might mean temporary changes to employment law saan. In fact, I'd say that's guaranteed to happen, but to what extent is the question.
IMO its so early and the possibilities so many that it serves no purpose to speculate one way or the other at this time.
You can't just say "somethings will change, especially player contracts"...on what grounds are you going to tell a player whose contract has expired that he MUST sign another one without breaching pretty much all of that players' rights and more importantly, breaking the laws of the land?
=======
Players are already taking pay cuts and soon they will be forced to do so by some clubs.
After all, the players have not fulfilled their contracts either, have they? Football contracts are about providing a service which they have been unable to provide because of Covid. The season might be cancelled and overall their livelihood is at risk.
Perhaps they won't be forced to sign, I didn't say they would but solutions will be found. All parties will be interested in a solution. Player registration may be opened as and when required too.
So many possibilities.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lots of them, but no matter what changes are made, none of them will grant anybody the power to force any employee or employer to sign a contract if they don't feel it is in their best interest, which in fairness you have admitted above. There is still a very real possibility as things stand that after 30th June, there may be a club that can't actually field a team.
You'd imagine most parent clubs would extend loans, but again it's not a given. My club for one would most likely be screwed if clubs wanted their players back.
Said it somewhere else though, too many people trying provide solutions without knowing what the actual problems are. But there's loads of them and they'll affect different clubs in different ways.
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 1 minute ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, that's what I thought. You're so convinced by your own argument to even see any kind of bigger picture or potential stumbling blocks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, that was directed at comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971) just above yours. I hadn't seen your post when I posted.
After taking in that info, go back and look at your reaction.
Calm down sugar. You're all over the place.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not the one who thinks football has any place to enforce changes in employment law. Sugar.
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 3 minutes ago
As things stand, COVID-19 or not, most of Bolton Wanderers' squad, just as one example, are free to leave or be released on June 30th if the players or club wish. That isn't going to be changed, simple as that.
----
Technically, they are not fulfilling by their contracts at the minute. Perhaps they will need to do that after we have defeated Covid.
So many possibilities.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How aren't they? Their governing body has suspended the league ffs so any breach has obviously been enforced. And you're trying to say that I'M all over the place. You have some decent points, but the others are just idiotic.
Lots of them, but no matter what changes are made, none of them will grant anybody the power to force any employee or employer to sign a contract if they don't feel it is in their best interest, which in fairness you have admitted above.
-------
As I said, Covid is unprecedented even in legal terms. You can't say this can't happen or that can't happen. Everything could be new. Also, technically they haven't fulfilled their contracts which require them to provide a service. Are the wages payable to them? Of course it won't come to that but the players will be aware of circumstances.
There is still a very real possibility as things stand that after 30th June, there may be a club that can't actually field a team.
----
And I've suggested ways that this can be worked around. Will also depend on the wording of individual contracts some of which might bind the player to the end of a season, which hasn't happened yet.
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 3 minutes ago
Lots of them, but no matter what changes are made, none of them will grant anybody the power to force any employee or employer to sign a contract if they don't feel it is in their best interest, which in fairness you have admitted above.
-------
As I said, Covid is unprecedented even in legal terms. You can't say this can't happen or that can't happen. Everything could be new. Also, technically they haven't fulfilled their contracts which require them to provide a service. Are the wages payable to them? Of course it won't come to that but the players will be aware of circumstances.
There is still a very real possibility as things stand that after 30th June, there may be a club that can't actually field a team.
----
And I've suggested ways that this can be worked around. Will also depend on the wording of individual contracts some of which might bind the player to the end of a season, which hasn't happened yet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Look, neither you or I can argue any of those points with any kind of certainty. I have my opinions on them of course, but I'm big enough to say that I'm no legal expert, so will just respect your right to your side of the argument on this, and walk away
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 3 minutes ago
As things stand, COVID-19 or not, most of Bolton Wanderers' squad, just as one example, are free to leave or be released on June 30th if the players or club wish. That isn't going to be changed, simple as that.
----
Technically, they are not fulfilling by their contracts at the minute. Perhaps they will need to do that after we have defeated Covid.
So many possibilities.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How aren't they? Their governing body has suspended the league ffs so any breach has obviously been enforced. And you're trying to say that I'M all over the place. You have some decent points, but the others are just idiotic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The governing body has suspended the league because it us unable to run the league. I don't think you are cinsidering all the legal possibilities here and you don't understand the true gravity of the situation as it seems to depend on what point you're making at any one time. Under the principle of frustration, they could fail to meet all their contractual obligations without consequence. Same goes for clubs. If it went to court, there'd be a battle for the ages and no one can be sure what the outcome would be. Covid is arguably an act of god which has a legal meaning.
Its a deeply complicated and novel issue that will need the temporary bending and amendemnet of many rules and a spirit of negotiation.
If you want to be strict, then why should TV companies allow the league to provide games to them after the period stated in the contracts? Where will funds to pay back the money come from considering clubs are already in serious trouble as it is.
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 3 minutes ago
Lots of them, but no matter what changes are made, none of them will grant anybody the power to force any employee or employer to sign a contract if they don't feel it is in their best interest, which in fairness you have admitted above.
-------
As I said, Covid is unprecedented even in legal terms. You can't say this can't happen or that can't happen. Everything could be new. Also, technically they haven't fulfilled their contracts which require them to provide a service. Are the wages payable to them? Of course it won't come to that but the players will be aware of circumstances.
There is still a very real possibility as things stand that after 30th June, there may be a club that can't actually field a team.
----
And I've suggested ways that this can be worked around. Will also depend on the wording of individual contracts some of which might bind the player to the end of a season, which hasn't happened yet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Look, neither you or I can argue any of those points with any kind of certainty. I have my opinions on them of course, but I'm big enough to say that I'm no legal expert, so will just respect your right to your side of the argument on this, and walk away
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I told you at the start. Gald you now agree.
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 40 minutes ago
As things stand, COVID-19 or not, most of Bolton Wanderers' squad, just as one example, are free to leave or be released on June 30th if the players or club wish. That isn't going to be changed, simple as that.
----
Technically, they are not fulfilling by their contracts at the minute. Perhaps they will need to do that after we have defeated Covid.
So many possibilities.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually there is one possibility until the virus is beaten: void the season
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 16 hours, 49 minutes ago
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 31 seconds ago
I'm merely trying to throw out the issues that are going to cause the problems going forward. Covid isn't going to mean that anything changes regarding employment law and you haven't really thought about the scenario o posted, which may very well be the case for more than a few clubs.
------
Covid might mean temporary changes to employment law saan. In fact, I'd say that's guaranteed to happen, but to what extent is the question.
IMO its so early and the possibilities so many that it serves no purpose to speculate one way or the other at this time.
You can't just say "somethings will change, especially player contracts"...on what grounds are you going to tell a player whose contract has expired that he MUST sign another one without breaching pretty much all of that players' rights and more importantly, breaking the laws of the land?
=======
Players are already taking pay cuts and soon they will be forced to do so by some clubs.
After all, the players have not fulfilled their contracts either, have they? Football contracts are about providing a service which they have been unable to provide because of Covid. The season might be cancelled and overall their livelihood is at risk.
Perhaps they won't be forced to sign, I didn't say they would but solutions will be found. All parties will be interested in a solution. Player registration may be opened as and when required too.
So many possibilities.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lots of them, but no matter what changes are made, none of them will grant anybody the power to force any employee or employer to sign a contract if they don't feel it is in their best interest, which in fairness you have admitted above. There is still a very real possibility as things stand that after 30th June, there may be a club that can't actually field a team.
You'd imagine most parent clubs would extend loans, but again it's not a given. My club for one would most likely be screwed if clubs wanted their players back.
Said it somewhere else though, too many people trying provide solutions without knowing what the actual problems are. But there's loads of them and they'll affect different clubs in different ways.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but clubs have finite space in their squads. In this scenario, we seem to be saying that a decent chunk of Bolton players will refuse a new contract. This will lead to one of two things, either they are joining a new club or they will be unemployed.
I would suggest it unlikely that a chunk of players would voluntarily make themselves unemployed. Of they are going to a new club then that will create surplus in the squads of that club who will have to then offload players, who Bolton can offer a position to. Exactly like would happen normally in the off-season.
Finish the season behind closed doors in the summer, maybe play matches in a neutral venue and isolate players, staff etc as a precaution
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 11 hours, 22 minutes ago
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 16 hours, 49 minutes ago
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 31 seconds ago
I'm merely trying to throw out the issues that are going to cause the problems going forward. Covid isn't going to mean that anything changes regarding employment law and you haven't really thought about the scenario o posted, which may very well be the case for more than a few clubs.
------
Covid might mean temporary changes to employment law saan. In fact, I'd say that's guaranteed to happen, but to what extent is the question.
IMO its so early and the possibilities so many that it serves no purpose to speculate one way or the other at this time.
You can't just say "somethings will change, especially player contracts"...on what grounds are you going to tell a player whose contract has expired that he MUST sign another one without breaching pretty much all of that players' rights and more importantly, breaking the laws of the land?
=======
Players are already taking pay cuts and soon they will be forced to do so by some clubs.
After all, the players have not fulfilled their contracts either, have they? Football contracts are about providing a service which they have been unable to provide because of Covid. The season might be cancelled and overall their livelihood is at risk.
Perhaps they won't be forced to sign, I didn't say they would but solutions will be found. All parties will be interested in a solution. Player registration may be opened as and when required too.
So many possibilities.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lots of them, but no matter what changes are made, none of them will grant anybody the power to force any employee or employer to sign a contract if they don't feel it is in their best interest, which in fairness you have admitted above. There is still a very real possibility as things stand that after 30th June, there may be a club that can't actually field a team.
You'd imagine most parent clubs would extend loans, but again it's not a given. My club for one would most likely be screwed if clubs wanted their players back.
Said it somewhere else though, too many people trying provide solutions without knowing what the actual problems are. But there's loads of them and they'll affect different clubs in different ways.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but clubs have finite space in their squads. In this scenario, we seem to be saying that a decent chunk of Bolton players will refuse a new contract. This will lead to one of two things, either they are joining a new club or they will be unemployed.
I would suggest it unlikely that a chunk of players would voluntarily make themselves unemployed. Of they are going to a new club then that will create surplus in the squads of that club who will have to then offload players, who Bolton can offer a position to. Exactly like would happen normally in the off-season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Given the amount of contracts expiring, it would appear that for whatever reason, Bolton are letting them run down, maybe to decrease their wage bill, I dunno, only their management will know the true reason.
Assuming the season restarted after June 30th when all those contracts had expired and the players had been released, then that's where the problem starts. You're not wrong in that they could bring in new personell on free transfers, that's obviously how clubs on mediocre budgets survive at the bottom, but you could be faced with a scenario where they have a first XI made up entirely of players who weren't there when the season was suspended. In fact, half of the teams in Leagues 1 and 2 could have completely different line ups. Straight away that would make a mockery of those leagues, and completely ruin the integrity of the competition. I honestly can't see how the EFL would let that happen.
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No football til November
Page 2 of 3
posted on 29/3/20
comment by Arouna Jagielka oooh I wanna take ya, Heitinga Nikica come on pretty mama (U1308)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 38 seconds ago
Wage bills will play havoc with FFP next season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t be silly, FFP ensures that all clubs are on a level playing field.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Haha sure it does
posted on 29/3/20
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
comment by Arouna Jagielka oooh I wanna take ya, Heitinga Nikica come on pretty mama (U1308)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 38 seconds ago
Wage bills will play havoc with FFP next season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t be silly, FFP ensures that all clubs are on a level playing field.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Haha sure it does
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know, it’s loaded to prevent others making it to the top table.
posted on 29/3/20
comment by Arouna Jagielka oooh I wanna take ya, Heitinga Nikica come on pretty mama (U1308)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
comment by Arouna Jagielka oooh I wanna take ya, Heitinga Nikica come on pretty mama (U1308)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 38 seconds ago
Wage bills will play havoc with FFP next season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t be silly, FFP ensures that all clubs are on a level playing field.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Haha sure it does
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know, it’s loaded to prevent others making it to the top table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I alreasy assumed it was tongue-in-cheek
posted on 29/3/20
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Arouna Jagielka oooh I wanna take ya, Heitinga Nikica come on pretty mama (U1308)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
comment by Arouna Jagielka oooh I wanna take ya, Heitinga Nikica come on pretty mama (U1308)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 38 seconds ago
Wage bills will play havoc with FFP next season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t be silly, FFP ensures that all clubs are on a level playing field.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Haha sure it does
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know, it’s loaded to prevent others making it to the top table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I alreasy assumed it was tongue-in-cheek
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Realllllly.
posted on 29/3/20
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 3 hours, 7 minutes ago
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 1 hour ago
First thing they need to do before even starting to think about finishing the season is work out the contract issues as this is massive for some clubs. I think between 31st May and 30th June my own club would lose 13 players either through loans or contracts ending. Bolton have something crazy like 80% of their squad on one year deals that end on 30th June. Some might be happy to sign a new deal, but what if they're not?
Until this issue is resolved and a solution in place that all clubs can agree on, there is just no way it can go on, especially if some clubs can't even field a full subs bench.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's why the non pro league got cancelled outright.
They have a proposal that will allow contracts to be extended, if reports are to be believed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Devils advocate...What if some clubs don't want to extend those contracts? What if their plan from the start was to let those contracts run down as they desperately need to lower the wage bill and had planned to sign cheaper replacement free transfers in the summer? I know this probably seems alien to you as a supporter of one of the biggest teams in the world, but some clubs beneath you actually have to REALLY worry about wage budgets.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is you present scenarios where Covid is a big deal and other scenarios where it isn't. Make your mind up.
If Covid is serious enough for a 3-4 billion season to be scrapped then the clubs will just have to take it on the chin. They will be aware that some plans must change, especially player contracts.
This is covid, enough to cancel a season so I suspect dealing with one or two player contracts should be a piece of cake. Furthermore, the clubs might be receiving money to help them out. So many possibilities. Have to wait a few more weeks and see where we are.
Some people are saying scrap the season but still expect the transfer window to open and close as usual. Why? Some weird logic all over the place IMO.
Also, Covid is unprecedented so who knows what will be the legal status of contracts? Are players currently fulfilling by heir contracts? Are contracts also voided under the principle of frustration?
As I said, its a field of landmines and we have to wait before making plans.
posted on 29/3/20
“ Some people are saying scrap the season but still expect the transfer window to open and close as usual. Why? Some weird logic all over the place”
This is a good point.
posted on 29/3/20
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 3 hours, 7 minutes ago
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 1 hour ago
First thing they need to do before even starting to think about finishing the season is work out the contract issues as this is massive for some clubs. I think between 31st May and 30th June my own club would lose 13 players either through loans or contracts ending. Bolton have something crazy like 80% of their squad on one year deals that end on 30th June. Some might be happy to sign a new deal, but what if they're not?
Until this issue is resolved and a solution in place that all clubs can agree on, there is just no way it can go on, especially if some clubs can't even field a full subs bench.
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That's why the non pro league got cancelled outright.
They have a proposal that will allow contracts to be extended, if reports are to be believed.
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Devils advocate...What if some clubs don't want to extend those contracts? What if their plan from the start was to let those contracts run down as they desperately need to lower the wage bill and had planned to sign cheaper replacement free transfers in the summer? I know this probably seems alien to you as a supporter of one of the biggest teams in the world, but some clubs beneath you actually have to REALLY worry about wage budgets.
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The problem is you present scenarios where Covid is a big deal and other scenarios where it isn't. Make your mind up.
If Covid is serious enough for a 3-4 billion season to be scrapped then the clubs will just have to take it on the chin. They will be aware that some plans must change, especially player contracts.
This is covid, enough to cancel a season so I suspect dealing with one or two player contracts should be a piece of cake. Furthermore, the clubs might be receiving money to help them out. So many possibilities. Have to wait a few more weeks and see where we are.
Some people are saying scrap the season but still expect the transfer window to open and close as usual. Why? Some weird logic all over the place IMO.
Also, Covid is unprecedented so who knows what will be the legal status of contracts? Are players currently fulfilling by heir contracts? Are contracts also voided under the principle of frustration?
As I said, its a field of landmines and we have to wait before making plans.
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I'm merely trying to throw out the issues that are going to cause the problems going forward. Covid isn't going to mean that anything changes regarding employment law and you haven't really thought about the scenario o posted, which may very well be the case for more than a few clubs.
You can't just say "somethings will change, especially player contracts"...on what grounds are you going to tell a player whose contract has expired that he MUST sign another one without breaching pretty much all of that players' rights and more importantly, breaking the laws of the land?
As things stand, COVID-19 or not, most of Bolton Wanderers' squad, just as one example, are free to leave or be released on June 30th if the players or club wish. That isn't going to be changed, simple as that.
Honestly, have a look and see how many of their squad are able to leave or be released in 3 months time: https://www.transfermarkt.com/bolton-wanderers/kader/verein/355/saison_id/2019/plus/1
Even if someone was willing to pay those players' contracts til the season was completed, there's not a single thing anyone could do if the players didn't want to sign on or Bolton didn't want to keep them.
posted on 29/3/20
posted on 29/3/20
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 1 minute ago
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No, that's what I thought. You're so convinced by your own argument to even see any kind of bigger picture or potential stumbling blocks.
posted on 29/3/20
I'm merely trying to throw out the issues that are going to cause the problems going forward. Covid isn't going to mean that anything changes regarding employment law and you haven't really thought about the scenario o posted, which may very well be the case for more than a few clubs.
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Covid might mean temporary changes to employment law saan. In fact, I'd say that's guaranteed to happen, but to what extent is the question.
IMO its so early and the possibilities so many that it serves no purpose to speculate one way or the other at this time.
You can't just say "somethings will change, especially player contracts"...on what grounds are you going to tell a player whose contract has expired that he MUST sign another one without breaching pretty much all of that players' rights and more importantly, breaking the laws of the land?
=======
Players are already taking pay cuts and soon they will be forced to do so by some clubs.
After all, the players have not fulfilled their contracts either, have they? Football contracts are about providing a service which they have been unable to provide because of Covid. The season might be cancelled and overall their livelihood is at risk.
Perhaps they won't be forced to sign, I didn't say they would but solutions will be found. All parties will be interested in a solution. Player registration may be opened as and when required too.
So many possibilities.
posted on 29/3/20
Lots of countries may keep their travel bans enforced well into 2021.
We'll all have to buy off each other.
posted on 29/3/20
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 1 minute ago
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No, that's what I thought. You're so convinced by your own argument to even see any kind of bigger picture or potential stumbling blocks.
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Actually, that was directed at comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971) just above yours. I hadn't seen your post when I posted.
After taking in that info, go back and look at your reaction.
Calm down sugar. You're all over the place.
posted on 29/3/20
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 2 minutes ago
Lots of countries may keep their travel bans enforced well into 2021.
We'll all have to buy off each other.
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For sure
posted on 29/3/20
As things stand, COVID-19 or not, most of Bolton Wanderers' squad, just as one example, are free to leave or be released on June 30th if the players or club wish. That isn't going to be changed, simple as that.
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Technically, they are not fulfilling by their contracts at the minute. Perhaps they will need to do that after we have defeated Covid.
So many possibilities.
posted on 29/3/20
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 31 seconds ago
I'm merely trying to throw out the issues that are going to cause the problems going forward. Covid isn't going to mean that anything changes regarding employment law and you haven't really thought about the scenario o posted, which may very well be the case for more than a few clubs.
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Covid might mean temporary changes to employment law saan. In fact, I'd say that's guaranteed to happen, but to what extent is the question.
IMO its so early and the possibilities so many that it serves no purpose to speculate one way or the other at this time.
You can't just say "somethings will change, especially player contracts"...on what grounds are you going to tell a player whose contract has expired that he MUST sign another one without breaching pretty much all of that players' rights and more importantly, breaking the laws of the land?
=======
Players are already taking pay cuts and soon they will be forced to do so by some clubs.
After all, the players have not fulfilled their contracts either, have they? Football contracts are about providing a service which they have been unable to provide because of Covid. The season might be cancelled and overall their livelihood is at risk.
Perhaps they won't be forced to sign, I didn't say they would but solutions will be found. All parties will be interested in a solution. Player registration may be opened as and when required too.
So many possibilities.
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Lots of them, but no matter what changes are made, none of them will grant anybody the power to force any employee or employer to sign a contract if they don't feel it is in their best interest, which in fairness you have admitted above. There is still a very real possibility as things stand that after 30th June, there may be a club that can't actually field a team.
You'd imagine most parent clubs would extend loans, but again it's not a given. My club for one would most likely be screwed if clubs wanted their players back.
Said it somewhere else though, too many people trying provide solutions without knowing what the actual problems are. But there's loads of them and they'll affect different clubs in different ways.
posted on 29/3/20
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 1 minute ago
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No, that's what I thought. You're so convinced by your own argument to even see any kind of bigger picture or potential stumbling blocks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, that was directed at comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971) just above yours. I hadn't seen your post when I posted.
After taking in that info, go back and look at your reaction.
Calm down sugar. You're all over the place.
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I'm not the one who thinks football has any place to enforce changes in employment law. Sugar.
posted on 29/3/20
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 3 minutes ago
As things stand, COVID-19 or not, most of Bolton Wanderers' squad, just as one example, are free to leave or be released on June 30th if the players or club wish. That isn't going to be changed, simple as that.
----
Technically, they are not fulfilling by their contracts at the minute. Perhaps they will need to do that after we have defeated Covid.
So many possibilities.
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How aren't they? Their governing body has suspended the league ffs so any breach has obviously been enforced. And you're trying to say that I'M all over the place. You have some decent points, but the others are just idiotic.
posted on 29/3/20
Lots of them, but no matter what changes are made, none of them will grant anybody the power to force any employee or employer to sign a contract if they don't feel it is in their best interest, which in fairness you have admitted above.
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As I said, Covid is unprecedented even in legal terms. You can't say this can't happen or that can't happen. Everything could be new. Also, technically they haven't fulfilled their contracts which require them to provide a service. Are the wages payable to them? Of course it won't come to that but the players will be aware of circumstances.
There is still a very real possibility as things stand that after 30th June, there may be a club that can't actually field a team.
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And I've suggested ways that this can be worked around. Will also depend on the wording of individual contracts some of which might bind the player to the end of a season, which hasn't happened yet.
posted on 29/3/20
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 3 minutes ago
Lots of them, but no matter what changes are made, none of them will grant anybody the power to force any employee or employer to sign a contract if they don't feel it is in their best interest, which in fairness you have admitted above.
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As I said, Covid is unprecedented even in legal terms. You can't say this can't happen or that can't happen. Everything could be new. Also, technically they haven't fulfilled their contracts which require them to provide a service. Are the wages payable to them? Of course it won't come to that but the players will be aware of circumstances.
There is still a very real possibility as things stand that after 30th June, there may be a club that can't actually field a team.
----
And I've suggested ways that this can be worked around. Will also depend on the wording of individual contracts some of which might bind the player to the end of a season, which hasn't happened yet.
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Look, neither you or I can argue any of those points with any kind of certainty. I have my opinions on them of course, but I'm big enough to say that I'm no legal expert, so will just respect your right to your side of the argument on this, and walk away
posted on 29/3/20
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 3 minutes ago
As things stand, COVID-19 or not, most of Bolton Wanderers' squad, just as one example, are free to leave or be released on June 30th if the players or club wish. That isn't going to be changed, simple as that.
----
Technically, they are not fulfilling by their contracts at the minute. Perhaps they will need to do that after we have defeated Covid.
So many possibilities.
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How aren't they? Their governing body has suspended the league ffs so any breach has obviously been enforced. And you're trying to say that I'M all over the place. You have some decent points, but the others are just idiotic.
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The governing body has suspended the league because it us unable to run the league. I don't think you are cinsidering all the legal possibilities here and you don't understand the true gravity of the situation as it seems to depend on what point you're making at any one time. Under the principle of frustration, they could fail to meet all their contractual obligations without consequence. Same goes for clubs. If it went to court, there'd be a battle for the ages and no one can be sure what the outcome would be. Covid is arguably an act of god which has a legal meaning.
Its a deeply complicated and novel issue that will need the temporary bending and amendemnet of many rules and a spirit of negotiation.
If you want to be strict, then why should TV companies allow the league to provide games to them after the period stated in the contracts? Where will funds to pay back the money come from considering clubs are already in serious trouble as it is.
posted on 29/3/20
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 3 minutes ago
Lots of them, but no matter what changes are made, none of them will grant anybody the power to force any employee or employer to sign a contract if they don't feel it is in their best interest, which in fairness you have admitted above.
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As I said, Covid is unprecedented even in legal terms. You can't say this can't happen or that can't happen. Everything could be new. Also, technically they haven't fulfilled their contracts which require them to provide a service. Are the wages payable to them? Of course it won't come to that but the players will be aware of circumstances.
There is still a very real possibility as things stand that after 30th June, there may be a club that can't actually field a team.
----
And I've suggested ways that this can be worked around. Will also depend on the wording of individual contracts some of which might bind the player to the end of a season, which hasn't happened yet.
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Look, neither you or I can argue any of those points with any kind of certainty. I have my opinions on them of course, but I'm big enough to say that I'm no legal expert, so will just respect your right to your side of the argument on this, and walk away
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That's what I told you at the start. Gald you now agree.
posted on 29/3/20
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 40 minutes ago
As things stand, COVID-19 or not, most of Bolton Wanderers' squad, just as one example, are free to leave or be released on June 30th if the players or club wish. That isn't going to be changed, simple as that.
----
Technically, they are not fulfilling by their contracts at the minute. Perhaps they will need to do that after we have defeated Covid.
So many possibilities.
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Actually there is one possibility until the virus is beaten: void the season
posted on 30/3/20
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 16 hours, 49 minutes ago
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 31 seconds ago
I'm merely trying to throw out the issues that are going to cause the problems going forward. Covid isn't going to mean that anything changes regarding employment law and you haven't really thought about the scenario o posted, which may very well be the case for more than a few clubs.
------
Covid might mean temporary changes to employment law saan. In fact, I'd say that's guaranteed to happen, but to what extent is the question.
IMO its so early and the possibilities so many that it serves no purpose to speculate one way or the other at this time.
You can't just say "somethings will change, especially player contracts"...on what grounds are you going to tell a player whose contract has expired that he MUST sign another one without breaching pretty much all of that players' rights and more importantly, breaking the laws of the land?
=======
Players are already taking pay cuts and soon they will be forced to do so by some clubs.
After all, the players have not fulfilled their contracts either, have they? Football contracts are about providing a service which they have been unable to provide because of Covid. The season might be cancelled and overall their livelihood is at risk.
Perhaps they won't be forced to sign, I didn't say they would but solutions will be found. All parties will be interested in a solution. Player registration may be opened as and when required too.
So many possibilities.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lots of them, but no matter what changes are made, none of them will grant anybody the power to force any employee or employer to sign a contract if they don't feel it is in their best interest, which in fairness you have admitted above. There is still a very real possibility as things stand that after 30th June, there may be a club that can't actually field a team.
You'd imagine most parent clubs would extend loans, but again it's not a given. My club for one would most likely be screwed if clubs wanted their players back.
Said it somewhere else though, too many people trying provide solutions without knowing what the actual problems are. But there's loads of them and they'll affect different clubs in different ways.
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Yes, but clubs have finite space in their squads. In this scenario, we seem to be saying that a decent chunk of Bolton players will refuse a new contract. This will lead to one of two things, either they are joining a new club or they will be unemployed.
I would suggest it unlikely that a chunk of players would voluntarily make themselves unemployed. Of they are going to a new club then that will create surplus in the squads of that club who will have to then offload players, who Bolton can offer a position to. Exactly like would happen normally in the off-season.
posted on 31/3/20
Finish the season behind closed doors in the summer, maybe play matches in a neutral venue and isolate players, staff etc as a precaution
posted on 31/3/20
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 11 hours, 22 minutes ago
comment by Champers - Pow! Right in the kisser (U6859)
posted 16 hours, 49 minutes ago
comment by Scouze Doggie Dog (U22357)
posted 31 seconds ago
I'm merely trying to throw out the issues that are going to cause the problems going forward. Covid isn't going to mean that anything changes regarding employment law and you haven't really thought about the scenario o posted, which may very well be the case for more than a few clubs.
------
Covid might mean temporary changes to employment law saan. In fact, I'd say that's guaranteed to happen, but to what extent is the question.
IMO its so early and the possibilities so many that it serves no purpose to speculate one way or the other at this time.
You can't just say "somethings will change, especially player contracts"...on what grounds are you going to tell a player whose contract has expired that he MUST sign another one without breaching pretty much all of that players' rights and more importantly, breaking the laws of the land?
=======
Players are already taking pay cuts and soon they will be forced to do so by some clubs.
After all, the players have not fulfilled their contracts either, have they? Football contracts are about providing a service which they have been unable to provide because of Covid. The season might be cancelled and overall their livelihood is at risk.
Perhaps they won't be forced to sign, I didn't say they would but solutions will be found. All parties will be interested in a solution. Player registration may be opened as and when required too.
So many possibilities.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lots of them, but no matter what changes are made, none of them will grant anybody the power to force any employee or employer to sign a contract if they don't feel it is in their best interest, which in fairness you have admitted above. There is still a very real possibility as things stand that after 30th June, there may be a club that can't actually field a team.
You'd imagine most parent clubs would extend loans, but again it's not a given. My club for one would most likely be screwed if clubs wanted their players back.
Said it somewhere else though, too many people trying provide solutions without knowing what the actual problems are. But there's loads of them and they'll affect different clubs in different ways.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but clubs have finite space in their squads. In this scenario, we seem to be saying that a decent chunk of Bolton players will refuse a new contract. This will lead to one of two things, either they are joining a new club or they will be unemployed.
I would suggest it unlikely that a chunk of players would voluntarily make themselves unemployed. Of they are going to a new club then that will create surplus in the squads of that club who will have to then offload players, who Bolton can offer a position to. Exactly like would happen normally in the off-season.
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Given the amount of contracts expiring, it would appear that for whatever reason, Bolton are letting them run down, maybe to decrease their wage bill, I dunno, only their management will know the true reason.
Assuming the season restarted after June 30th when all those contracts had expired and the players had been released, then that's where the problem starts. You're not wrong in that they could bring in new personell on free transfers, that's obviously how clubs on mediocre budgets survive at the bottom, but you could be faced with a scenario where they have a first XI made up entirely of players who weren't there when the season was suspended. In fact, half of the teams in Leagues 1 and 2 could have completely different line ups. Straight away that would make a mockery of those leagues, and completely ruin the integrity of the competition. I honestly can't see how the EFL would let that happen.
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