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Boris on a ventilator?

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posted on 9/4/20

I suspect it’s more than his mishandling of the situation, given the history and actions of the man, that leads to a lack of sympathy, and it’s an understandable stance.

I think you can take the human element out of it when you don’t have the visceral response of seeing someone in that position also, unlike the case you’ve cited. Especially when you’re dealing with people that have such a profound effect on many people’s lives.

posted on 9/4/20

comment by Kunta Kante (U1641)
posted 40 minutes ago
You’re comparing a man convicted of murdering two 10 year-old girls with Boris Johnson? The reason you gave to not wishing Boris well is that he you think mismanaged the coronavirus situation. Mismanaging or making a mistake in your job happens to everyone, for me it wouldn’t affect whether I would feel sympathy in a time of serious illness.

I’m not sure whether to take this philosophical debate further..but hey, it’s quarantine. Don’t get me wrong. I don’t disagree that some people fall so far outside my own moral values that if they were reported to be ill or dying I would not feel sympathy. However in the last year I was privileged enough to spend time interviewing prison patients with a psychiatrist at a large UK HMP.

I had quite a harrowing moment where we were going to see a prisoner who was doing time for rape. The presenting complaint was that of depression and suicidal thoughts. I really wasn’t expecting to feel any sympathy. When we spoke to him, it was one of the most pathetic and sorrowing things I’ve seen. Another human so broken, and so distressed..honestly even when I retell this I struggle to convey the way he presented. It was so poignant. And he was so unbelievably desperate for help. I think it was impossible to not have sympathy for him. Even the prison guard who escorted us there, self-admitted ‘don’t usually care for stories like that’ felt sympathy for him. I should add in our interview he spoke multiple times about how he accepted his ‘mistakes’ in life and his punishment. He wanted to be better but his mental health was preventing that.

I guess what I’m trying to say is..don’t underestimate the ‘human’ factor of seeing someone else in severe illness. I don’t even know if the prisoner had siblings/parents/children. But when you’re face to face with another human who is desperate for help and that ill I think it surprises you that you do feel sympathy for them. For example, if you went to ICU and saw Boris on oxygen, IV lines, constant sats monitoring, and most pertinently, if sedated and ventilated (he isn’t but if he was).
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I accept your point, and I would probably feel something for the person if I saw them in person - it's a natural reaction unless you're emotionally dead - but the example you give is regarding someone with mental health problems that have led to the person's difficulties.

Boris's predicament is at least partially caused by his own ignorance, arrogance, and stupidity. That, along with his past record of constant gaffs, racism, and commitment to ruining lives via austerity, is why I can't feel much at all for him.

The Huntley comparison was perhaps hyperbolic, I admit, but Boris has, and will have, contributed to many more children's deaths through his inaction and ignoring experts' advice before and during this pandemic.

Aside from all that, the man was literally bragging that he'd been shaking people's hands like a complete idiot and is now in ICU because of it - there is a kind of poetic, dark humour in that, I think - I know it's not nice, but the world isn't always nice.

posted on 9/4/20

The very people who are sycophantly defending the PM and Government ministers for their somewhat bumbling attempts at handling this crisis and demanding that we all applaud them from our front doors (as we they are pressured into doing for our nurses and health workers who probably don't vote Conservative anyway), are the same people who would be currently absolutely crucifying Corbyn and his lot if they were in power instead and doing a similarly bad job of things.

Just accept that some/many people will always put their own Party Politics and preferences in front of and above other people's wellbeing and even survival.

posted on 9/4/20

@Joe @Henry fair replies. I don’t think much more can be argued. It’s struck a bit of a personal dilemma with me actually lol. As on one hand I do agree that it’s fine to not feel sympathy for someone if they you don’t agree with their actions, but i’m also aware I’ve done exactly that for someone who’s done the worst of crimes.

Perhaps it is best to split it up and keep it seperate, between feeling sympathy for someone who’s ill when it is reported and feeling sympathy for someone who’s ill right in front of your eyes. Which is another philosophical dilemma in itself (why the sympathy changes based on how involved you are) but hey.

posted on 9/4/20

Kunta

posted on 9/4/20

comment by Kunta Kante (U1641)
posted 12 minutes ago
@Joe @Henry fair replies. I don’t think much more can be argued. It’s struck a bit of a personal dilemma with me actually lol. As on one hand I do agree that it’s fine to not feel sympathy for someone if they you don’t agree with their actions, but i’m also aware I’ve done exactly that for someone who’s done the worst of crimes.

Perhaps it is best to split it up and keep it seperate, between feeling sympathy for someone who’s ill when it is reported and feeling sympathy for someone who’s ill right in front of your eyes. Which is another philosophical dilemma in itself (why the sympathy changes based on how involved you are) but hey.
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I must admit it is easier to not give a --- about Boris as I don't know him as a person and can't physically see him suffering and I do think there's a risk of seeing such people as 'other' and just seeing the statistic.

I know what you're getting at and trying to be compassionate is a good trait, I just can't bring myself to do it with Boris - but as you suggested: everyone's 'line' is in a different place regarding morality and it's probably unsolveable even for JA in quarantine haha.

posted on 9/4/20

If I'm honest I don't really care what happens to him because I suspect (and borderline know) that he's a bad person.

However, I also suspect he doesn't care about me either.

Either there is no way I'm clapping him.

posted on 9/4/20

So out ICU. Ventilator story probably busted.

posted on 9/4/20

comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 19 minutes ago
So out ICU. Ventilator story probably busted.
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Was always a pile of sheite. ffs I know people like to pour scorn over everything the government says and does and things it just hides everything but we’d know if his situation deteriorated that much.

“My mate knows a dog who’s owner is a guy who cuts the hair for....”

posted on 9/4/20

“My mate knows a dog who’s owner is a guy who cuts the hair for....”
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Par for the course on here.

However... a dicky bird has told me.... that Boris been being in IC at Tommy's with all his baggage in tow, has caused chaos, and the staff can't wait till he goes so they can get back to normality.

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