Walker looks like he may have burnt bridges.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 9 minutes ago
Walker looks like he may have burnt bridges.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In what way? With his behaviour during the lockdown?
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 9 minutes ago
Walker looks like he may have burnt bridges.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In what way? With his behaviour during the lockdown?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think even before that. Was getting left out. Think Southgate was moving on. His behaviour over lockdown makes it easier.
comment by Sideshow (U11809)
posted 31 minutes ago
I think people are putting players like Rice, Winks & Henderson in midfield because it adds balance to the side.
______________________________
It works for Liverpool because your fullbacks are able to find your front three directly + Firmino will drop deep as a false no.9. Don’t think England have the same balance and understanding.
The only way it could work IMO is through playing a back three with technical defender.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kane does play a little like Firmino for England where he drops deep allowing the quick wide players to drop in the hole he vacates. His assist record is pretty decent too.
He's never really been Southgate's favourite and probably would be 4th choice in his eyes. Given he's still quite prevalent at City and they're always competing for trophies he'll be hard to ignore. He should be in consideration for his pace, if nothing else.
Think he'd be behind Reece James too tbh
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 8 minutes ago
Think he'd be behind Reece James too tbh
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure, he hasn't had any caps for England yet.
Most likely at the moment is TAA, AWB and Trippier, i reckon. Could change by the time the Euros come round.
Maybe he goes with a back five with AWB playing inside of Trent?
comment by Sideshow (U11809)
posted 2 hours, 50 minutes ago
I think people are putting players like Rice, Winks & Henderson in midfield because it adds balance to the side.
______________________________
It works for Liverpool because your fullbacks are able to find your front three directly + Firmino will drop deep as a false no.9. Don’t think England have the same balance and understanding.
The only way it could work IMO is through playing a back three with technical defender.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True which is why I liked DJ's formation the best. Henderson & Winks in the middle covering for the wing-backs. Maguire already proved at the WC that can handle the left side of 3 like a man possessed...so it's just the right side really....and then getting the movement and positioning right with the attackers.
The problem with the back three/five is it can get exposed really badly in the wide areas which is exactly what happened against Croatia in Moscow.
The midfield tired in the latter stages and just couldn't handle the workload of getting across the pitch to cover the wide areas and it proved fatal.
That remains Southgate's biggest mistake as England manager, not reacting to Croatia's overloads in that game.
I think that's why he's all but abandoned the idea. We've not played that way since 2018.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Worth considering our winger situation is much improved since the world cup. Rashford and Sancho have really emerged as top players since then. And as a result we’ve become much better on the counter with less reliance on the full backs for width and creativity.
I think a back four best utilises the squad. Maybe he’ll change it around depending on opposition, and maybe more so in game if we need to sit on a lead and go more defensive.
I would say that is more a problem with personnel and/or tactical instruction from the manager than the formation or system itself.
------------------------------------------------
Of course no system is without its flaws but I've seen a back three/five exposed too many times at the highest level by teams that are strong in wide areas for it not to be a factor.
Maybe he goes with a back five with AWB playing inside of Trent?
----------------------------------------------
That is an idea though I've suggested on numerous occasions that United do when playing that way. I think it would be worthwhile for both teams to try that at some point when they don't play a back four.
I think the problem with it is having to sacrifice the attackers. Southgate wants three midfielders in there all the time, which is fair enough, but if you then move to a back five it means leaving out two of Sancho, Sterling, Kane and Rashford. For the first time in god knows how long England’s attackers are easily their biggest strength - and arguably on a par, or not far off, any other team in international football. I’d be surprised if he’d be brave enough to do that given the criticism he’d face for not getting our best attackers in the game.
Worth considering our winger situation is much improved since the world cup. Rashford and Sancho have really emerged as top players since then. And as a result we’ve become much better on the counter with less reliance on the full backs for width and creativity.
-------------------------------------------------
Fair point about Rashford and Sancho but against Croatia, from what I can remember, when it came to the latter stages, the wing-backs were barely getting forward anyway because we were getting completely overrun and penned in by Croatia and because of the system we were playing, we couldn't defend effectively in the wide areas because nobody was covering the wing-backs and the midfield was too dead on its feet to keep shuffling across the entire width of the pitch by itself and provide sufficient protection.
I don't think he'll move away from a back four again and for that reason, our attack is far too strong for us to sacrifice two of those players and three of those players are better playing from wide positions anyway.
But that’s why I think he’s moved away from it, rather than what happened against Croatia. And that the back five in the world cup was due to the lack of trust in the wingers we had at the time.
I guess he could sacrifice the attacking mid and go 343, and it’d be easier to leave out the like of Maddison, Alli, Mount, Grealish and Barkley, but he seems to like the attacking mid to lead the press - which is why Lingard and Alli were playing so much despite offering fackall in attack.
I think it’s why we may see Mount starting in the Euros, even if he lacks creativity.
I think the Croatia game is the reason he moved away from it initially.
I'm sure I remember him hinting at it and certain mistakes we made in one of his pre-match interviews at one of the games after Russia.
Maybe it had some influence, but we did use that formation a couple of times after the world cup, the defeat to Spain in nations league was the main one I remember. I think Sterling was out, so again we were left with really weak options out wide.
As soon as we had good options there he ditched it. Which makes sense as they’re very good wide players.
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Euro 2020 Squad.
Page 5 of 5
posted on 28/5/20
Walker looks like he may have burnt bridges.
posted on 28/5/20
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 9 minutes ago
Walker looks like he may have burnt bridges.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In what way? With his behaviour during the lockdown?
posted on 28/5/20
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 9 minutes ago
Walker looks like he may have burnt bridges.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In what way? With his behaviour during the lockdown?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think even before that. Was getting left out. Think Southgate was moving on. His behaviour over lockdown makes it easier.
posted on 28/5/20
comment by Sideshow (U11809)
posted 31 minutes ago
I think people are putting players like Rice, Winks & Henderson in midfield because it adds balance to the side.
______________________________
It works for Liverpool because your fullbacks are able to find your front three directly + Firmino will drop deep as a false no.9. Don’t think England have the same balance and understanding.
The only way it could work IMO is through playing a back three with technical defender.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kane does play a little like Firmino for England where he drops deep allowing the quick wide players to drop in the hole he vacates. His assist record is pretty decent too.
posted on 28/5/20
He's never really been Southgate's favourite and probably would be 4th choice in his eyes. Given he's still quite prevalent at City and they're always competing for trophies he'll be hard to ignore. He should be in consideration for his pace, if nothing else.
posted on 28/5/20
Think he'd be behind Reece James too tbh
posted on 28/5/20
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 8 minutes ago
Think he'd be behind Reece James too tbh
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure, he hasn't had any caps for England yet.
Most likely at the moment is TAA, AWB and Trippier, i reckon. Could change by the time the Euros come round.
posted on 28/5/20
Maybe he goes with a back five with AWB playing inside of Trent?
posted on 28/5/20
comment by Sideshow (U11809)
posted 2 hours, 50 minutes ago
I think people are putting players like Rice, Winks & Henderson in midfield because it adds balance to the side.
______________________________
It works for Liverpool because your fullbacks are able to find your front three directly + Firmino will drop deep as a false no.9. Don’t think England have the same balance and understanding.
The only way it could work IMO is through playing a back three with technical defender.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True which is why I liked DJ's formation the best. Henderson & Winks in the middle covering for the wing-backs. Maguire already proved at the WC that can handle the left side of 3 like a man possessed...so it's just the right side really....and then getting the movement and positioning right with the attackers.
posted on 28/5/20
The problem with the back three/five is it can get exposed really badly in the wide areas which is exactly what happened against Croatia in Moscow.
The midfield tired in the latter stages and just couldn't handle the workload of getting across the pitch to cover the wide areas and it proved fatal.
That remains Southgate's biggest mistake as England manager, not reacting to Croatia's overloads in that game.
I think that's why he's all but abandoned the idea. We've not played that way since 2018.
posted on 28/5/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 28/5/20
Worth considering our winger situation is much improved since the world cup. Rashford and Sancho have really emerged as top players since then. And as a result we’ve become much better on the counter with less reliance on the full backs for width and creativity.
I think a back four best utilises the squad. Maybe he’ll change it around depending on opposition, and maybe more so in game if we need to sit on a lead and go more defensive.
posted on 28/5/20
I would say that is more a problem with personnel and/or tactical instruction from the manager than the formation or system itself.
------------------------------------------------
Of course no system is without its flaws but I've seen a back three/five exposed too many times at the highest level by teams that are strong in wide areas for it not to be a factor.
posted on 28/5/20
Maybe he goes with a back five with AWB playing inside of Trent?
----------------------------------------------
That is an idea though I've suggested on numerous occasions that United do when playing that way. I think it would be worthwhile for both teams to try that at some point when they don't play a back four.
posted on 28/5/20
I think the problem with it is having to sacrifice the attackers. Southgate wants three midfielders in there all the time, which is fair enough, but if you then move to a back five it means leaving out two of Sancho, Sterling, Kane and Rashford. For the first time in god knows how long England’s attackers are easily their biggest strength - and arguably on a par, or not far off, any other team in international football. I’d be surprised if he’d be brave enough to do that given the criticism he’d face for not getting our best attackers in the game.
posted on 28/5/20
Worth considering our winger situation is much improved since the world cup. Rashford and Sancho have really emerged as top players since then. And as a result we’ve become much better on the counter with less reliance on the full backs for width and creativity.
-------------------------------------------------
Fair point about Rashford and Sancho but against Croatia, from what I can remember, when it came to the latter stages, the wing-backs were barely getting forward anyway because we were getting completely overrun and penned in by Croatia and because of the system we were playing, we couldn't defend effectively in the wide areas because nobody was covering the wing-backs and the midfield was too dead on its feet to keep shuffling across the entire width of the pitch by itself and provide sufficient protection.
posted on 28/5/20
I don't think he'll move away from a back four again and for that reason, our attack is far too strong for us to sacrifice two of those players and three of those players are better playing from wide positions anyway.
posted on 28/5/20
But that’s why I think he’s moved away from it, rather than what happened against Croatia. And that the back five in the world cup was due to the lack of trust in the wingers we had at the time.
I guess he could sacrifice the attacking mid and go 343, and it’d be easier to leave out the like of Maddison, Alli, Mount, Grealish and Barkley, but he seems to like the attacking mid to lead the press - which is why Lingard and Alli were playing so much despite offering fackall in attack.
I think it’s why we may see Mount starting in the Euros, even if he lacks creativity.
posted on 28/5/20
I think the Croatia game is the reason he moved away from it initially.
I'm sure I remember him hinting at it and certain mistakes we made in one of his pre-match interviews at one of the games after Russia.
posted on 28/5/20
Maybe it had some influence, but we did use that formation a couple of times after the world cup, the defeat to Spain in nations league was the main one I remember. I think Sterling was out, so again we were left with really weak options out wide.
As soon as we had good options there he ditched it. Which makes sense as they’re very good wide players.
Page 5 of 5