Sandy, how can you call it murder?
My understanding is that most deaths were the result of crushing / suffocation.
If people were killed by the actual Liverpool fans then you'd be entitled to your opinion (even if murder was not the chosen charge) but from what I have read, people died as a result of their actions and nothing more.
I don't like this subject being raised because it's naturally going to upset people but if it's going to be discussed then you really should choose your words carefully I think.
None of us were there, we don't need to argue about it.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 21 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 9 minutes ago
First of all it was never murder. It was correctly judged as manslaughter. That doesn’t excuse anything that happened, it’s just a fact.
This is what Sandy does. Does he genuinely believe it was murder or is he saying that to rile LFC fans up, then claim we were defending those at Heysel for pointing out it wasn’t murder?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So what else is new?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was murder. Why would I not expect a Liverpool supporter to deny it? Acting like animals at a football match, and then trying to say it wasn`t there fault, is what is seriously wrong with a lot of Liverpool fans. Own your mess for once, instead of always trying to pass the buck.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You also don't get to lie and change what was already determined.
'Your mess'? How is what 14 fans done his mess?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because it was not just 14 fans, there were hundreds of cavemen charging across the terraces, that evening. Just most never actually got caught.
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 21 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 9 minutes ago
First of all it was never murder. It was correctly judged as manslaughter. That doesn’t excuse anything that happened, it’s just a fact.
This is what Sandy does. Does he genuinely believe it was murder or is he saying that to rile LFC fans up, then claim we were defending those at Heysel for pointing out it wasn’t murder?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So what else is new?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was murder. Why would I not expect a Liverpool supporter to deny it? Acting like animals at a football match, and then trying to say it wasn`t there fault, is what is seriously wrong with a lot of Liverpool fans. Own your mess for once, instead of always trying to pass the buck.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sandy twice I have raised this and you have ignored it both times. Spurs fans were involved in serious riots on two separate occasions at Feyenoord. Did those fans behave any better than the Liverpool fans you are attacking over Heysel ? The loss of life was tragic but your own fans were certainly no angels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have always absolutely always 100 per cent been ashamed of what happened with Spurs fans in Holland, and it was by the grace of god nobody was actually killed. But two wrongs do not make a right. And I get the impression of lot of Liverpool fans are still slightly in denial that it was absolutely their fault what happened in Belgium.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
Sandy, how can you call it murder?
My understanding is that most deaths were the result of crushing / suffocation.
If people were killed by the actual Liverpool fans then you'd be entitled to your opinion (even if murder was not the chosen charge) but from what I have read, people died as a result of their actions and nothing more.
I don't like this subject being raised because it's naturally going to upset people but if it's going to be discussed then you really should choose your words carefully I think.
None of us were there, we don't need to argue about it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In the technical sense it was not a straight murder, but it was certainly murder in all but name. Like saying half a dozen fellas surrounding one fella outside of a pub, all armed with knives, but one only acually does the stabbing, whilst the others do the goading. I think you will find they would all be implicated in a murder.
If not for those cavemen charging across the terraces, then nobody would have died. So yes it was murder in all but name.
You didn`t have to be there, it all unfolding for an hour or two on TV. The whole world saw what went on.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
sandy (U20567)
No sandy, it wasn't murder however you dress it up.
And no, it's nothing like the example you gave.
Whilst these people were thugs and their intentions were obviously not good, it's a massive stretch to say that they did what they did with the express intent of killing those people.
You need to step back and think about this one.
These threads always seem to turn into an opportunity for some preacher to preach.
comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
These threads always seem to turn into an opportunity for some preacher to preach.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Usually you.
comment by Ole-Dirty-Baztard (U19119)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
These threads always seem to turn into an opportunity for some preacher to preach.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Usually you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Alex Jones. Tell us again about the vile, money hungry and corrupt Premier league and his Liverpool have "Boughy all the refs and paid off VAR".
The infowars website is thataway.⤵
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 33 minutes ago
sandy (U20567)
No sandy, it wasn't murder however you dress it up.
And no, it's nothing like the example you gave.
Whilst these people were thugs and their intentions were obviously not good, it's a massive stretch to say that they did what they did with the express intent of killing those people.
You need to step back and think about this one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have made my point, you can take it or leave it. Murder is not always intent. Plenty of murders take place that are not pre meditated.
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 33 minutes ago
sandy (U20567)
No sandy, it wasn't murder however you dress it up.
And no, it's nothing like the example you gave.
Whilst these people were thugs and their intentions were obviously not good, it's a massive stretch to say that they did what they did with the express intent of killing those people.
You need to step back and think about this one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have made my point, you can take it or leave it. Murder is not always intent. Plenty of murders take place that are not pre meditated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I suggest you do a bit of research into the term and wish you a nice weekend.
comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Ole-Dirty-Baztard (U19119)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
These threads always seem to turn into an opportunity for some preacher to preach.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Usually you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Alex Jones. Tell us again about the vile, money hungry and corrupt Premier league and his Liverpool have "Boughy all the refs and paid off VAR".
The infowars website is thataway.⤵
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi preacher.
Sandy.
My dad and 2 uncles were not far from were the collapse happened. They’ve all said that they seen Juventus fans charging our fans first. Also there were Italian fans with knives and one even brought a starter pistol so don’t be blaming just our fans
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 33 minutes ago
sandy (U20567)
No sandy, it wasn't murder however you dress it up.
And no, it's nothing like the example you gave.
Whilst these people were thugs and their intentions were obviously not good, it's a massive stretch to say that they did what they did with the express intent of killing those people.
You need to step back and think about this one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have made my point, you can take it or leave it. Murder is not always intent. Plenty of murders take place that are not pre meditated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't know what murder is, clearly.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by He’s our centre half! He’s our number 4! (U22158)
posted 4 hours, 8 minutes ago
Sandy.
My dad and 2 uncles were not far from were the collapse happened. They’ve all said that they seen Juventus fans charging our fans first. Also there were Italian fans with knives and one even brought a starter pistol so don’t be blaming just our fans
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Juventus fan with the starting pistol was up the other end, so that is a complete non factor.
From what I saw quite clearly on TV, it was the Liverpool fans charging at the Juventus fans. Now I am not saying your dad and 2 uncles were not telling the truth, but the inquest did not actually see it that way.
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 4 hours, 2 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 33 minutes ago
sandy (U20567)
No sandy, it wasn't murder however you dress it up.
And no, it's nothing like the example you gave.
Whilst these people were thugs and their intentions were obviously not good, it's a massive stretch to say that they did what they did with the express intent of killing those people.
You need to step back and think about this one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have made my point, you can take it or leave it. Murder is not always intent. Plenty of murders take place that are not pre meditated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't know what murder is, clearly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well the killing of 39 innocent people by animals that called themselves Liverpool supporters, is murder in my book. Maybe we have different values.
No, you just dont know the meaning of words.
There's a word for what happened and it's called manslaughter and what's in your eyes is quite frankly irrelevant to that fact.
In the technical sense it was not a straight murder, but it was certainly murder in all but name.
———
Sandy redefining the meaning of words.
Hmm shouting murderers at strangers on the internet is the best way yet I’ve seen of honouring those who died.
Got to applaud Sandy for that.
I'm really surprised by the two nasty bitter Spurs supporters on this site. I always thought if anybody expressed these nasty views, it would have been United fans but you have to give credit where it's due, United fans on here, in the main appreciate that the main cause was those Liverpool fans involved but also understand the other causes.
I think they've, apart from one, been quote fair in their appraisal of the situation.
I knew Billy was like this, after he was posted in Twitter holding up the Sun newspaper saying they were right about Hillsborough but I'm surprised with Sandy. I used to ridicule his opinions, until I found out he was really a pensioner, then I decided to give him some respect. That is gone now. Back to ridiculing his stupid opinions.
In my experience, pensioners are often the most deserving of ridicule for their opinions. I guess it’s what happens when your cognitive functions start to deteriorate.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 29 minutes ago
I'm really surprised by the two nasty bitter Spurs supporters on this site. I always thought if anybody expressed these nasty views, it would have been United fans but you have to give credit where it's due, United fans on here, in the main appreciate that the main cause was those Liverpool fans involved but also understand the other causes.
I think they've, apart from one, been quote fair in their appraisal of the situation.
I knew Billy was like this, after he was posted in Twitter holding up the Sun newspaper saying they were right about Hillsborough but I'm surprised with Sandy. I used to ridicule his opinions, until I found out he was really a pensioner, then I decided to give him some respect. That is gone now. Back to ridiculing his stupid opinions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If it is bitterness, I struggle to understand why.
Liverpool are nothing to Spurs and vice versa - I don’t mean that in a negative sense, just we’re not geographical rivals, and apart from last years UCL we’ve hardly been going toe to toe. Appreciate we’re both competing for Top 4, but so have a number of clubs for about 4-5 years. I find the obsession on this board bizarre.
Sign in if you want to comment
Football`s forgotten tragedy
Page 7 of 9
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posted on 29/5/20
Sandy, how can you call it murder?
My understanding is that most deaths were the result of crushing / suffocation.
If people were killed by the actual Liverpool fans then you'd be entitled to your opinion (even if murder was not the chosen charge) but from what I have read, people died as a result of their actions and nothing more.
I don't like this subject being raised because it's naturally going to upset people but if it's going to be discussed then you really should choose your words carefully I think.
None of us were there, we don't need to argue about it.
posted on 29/5/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 29/5/20
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 21 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 9 minutes ago
First of all it was never murder. It was correctly judged as manslaughter. That doesn’t excuse anything that happened, it’s just a fact.
This is what Sandy does. Does he genuinely believe it was murder or is he saying that to rile LFC fans up, then claim we were defending those at Heysel for pointing out it wasn’t murder?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So what else is new?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was murder. Why would I not expect a Liverpool supporter to deny it? Acting like animals at a football match, and then trying to say it wasn`t there fault, is what is seriously wrong with a lot of Liverpool fans. Own your mess for once, instead of always trying to pass the buck.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You also don't get to lie and change what was already determined.
'Your mess'? How is what 14 fans done his mess?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because it was not just 14 fans, there were hundreds of cavemen charging across the terraces, that evening. Just most never actually got caught.
posted on 29/5/20
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 21 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 9 minutes ago
First of all it was never murder. It was correctly judged as manslaughter. That doesn’t excuse anything that happened, it’s just a fact.
This is what Sandy does. Does he genuinely believe it was murder or is he saying that to rile LFC fans up, then claim we were defending those at Heysel for pointing out it wasn’t murder?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So what else is new?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was murder. Why would I not expect a Liverpool supporter to deny it? Acting like animals at a football match, and then trying to say it wasn`t there fault, is what is seriously wrong with a lot of Liverpool fans. Own your mess for once, instead of always trying to pass the buck.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sandy twice I have raised this and you have ignored it both times. Spurs fans were involved in serious riots on two separate occasions at Feyenoord. Did those fans behave any better than the Liverpool fans you are attacking over Heysel ? The loss of life was tragic but your own fans were certainly no angels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have always absolutely always 100 per cent been ashamed of what happened with Spurs fans in Holland, and it was by the grace of god nobody was actually killed. But two wrongs do not make a right. And I get the impression of lot of Liverpool fans are still slightly in denial that it was absolutely their fault what happened in Belgium.
posted on 29/5/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
Sandy, how can you call it murder?
My understanding is that most deaths were the result of crushing / suffocation.
If people were killed by the actual Liverpool fans then you'd be entitled to your opinion (even if murder was not the chosen charge) but from what I have read, people died as a result of their actions and nothing more.
I don't like this subject being raised because it's naturally going to upset people but if it's going to be discussed then you really should choose your words carefully I think.
None of us were there, we don't need to argue about it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In the technical sense it was not a straight murder, but it was certainly murder in all but name. Like saying half a dozen fellas surrounding one fella outside of a pub, all armed with knives, but one only acually does the stabbing, whilst the others do the goading. I think you will find they would all be implicated in a murder.
If not for those cavemen charging across the terraces, then nobody would have died. So yes it was murder in all but name.
You didn`t have to be there, it all unfolding for an hour or two on TV. The whole world saw what went on.
posted on 29/5/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 29/5/20
sandy (U20567)
No sandy, it wasn't murder however you dress it up.
And no, it's nothing like the example you gave.
Whilst these people were thugs and their intentions were obviously not good, it's a massive stretch to say that they did what they did with the express intent of killing those people.
You need to step back and think about this one.
posted on 29/5/20
These threads always seem to turn into an opportunity for some preacher to preach.
posted on 29/5/20
comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
These threads always seem to turn into an opportunity for some preacher to preach.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Usually you.
posted on 29/5/20
comment by Ole-Dirty-Baztard (U19119)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
These threads always seem to turn into an opportunity for some preacher to preach.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Usually you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Alex Jones. Tell us again about the vile, money hungry and corrupt Premier league and his Liverpool have "Boughy all the refs and paid off VAR".
The infowars website is thataway.⤵
posted on 29/5/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 33 minutes ago
sandy (U20567)
No sandy, it wasn't murder however you dress it up.
And no, it's nothing like the example you gave.
Whilst these people were thugs and their intentions were obviously not good, it's a massive stretch to say that they did what they did with the express intent of killing those people.
You need to step back and think about this one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have made my point, you can take it or leave it. Murder is not always intent. Plenty of murders take place that are not pre meditated.
posted on 29/5/20
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 33 minutes ago
sandy (U20567)
No sandy, it wasn't murder however you dress it up.
And no, it's nothing like the example you gave.
Whilst these people were thugs and their intentions were obviously not good, it's a massive stretch to say that they did what they did with the express intent of killing those people.
You need to step back and think about this one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have made my point, you can take it or leave it. Murder is not always intent. Plenty of murders take place that are not pre meditated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I suggest you do a bit of research into the term and wish you a nice weekend.
posted on 29/5/20
comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Ole-Dirty-Baztard (U19119)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
These threads always seem to turn into an opportunity for some preacher to preach.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Usually you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Alex Jones. Tell us again about the vile, money hungry and corrupt Premier league and his Liverpool have "Boughy all the refs and paid off VAR".
The infowars website is thataway.⤵
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi preacher.
posted on 29/5/20
Sandy.
My dad and 2 uncles were not far from were the collapse happened. They’ve all said that they seen Juventus fans charging our fans first. Also there were Italian fans with knives and one even brought a starter pistol so don’t be blaming just our fans
posted on 29/5/20
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 33 minutes ago
sandy (U20567)
No sandy, it wasn't murder however you dress it up.
And no, it's nothing like the example you gave.
Whilst these people were thugs and their intentions were obviously not good, it's a massive stretch to say that they did what they did with the express intent of killing those people.
You need to step back and think about this one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have made my point, you can take it or leave it. Murder is not always intent. Plenty of murders take place that are not pre meditated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't know what murder is, clearly.
posted on 29/5/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 29/5/20
comment by He’s our centre half! He’s our number 4! (U22158)
posted 4 hours, 8 minutes ago
Sandy.
My dad and 2 uncles were not far from were the collapse happened. They’ve all said that they seen Juventus fans charging our fans first. Also there were Italian fans with knives and one even brought a starter pistol so don’t be blaming just our fans
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Juventus fan with the starting pistol was up the other end, so that is a complete non factor.
From what I saw quite clearly on TV, it was the Liverpool fans charging at the Juventus fans. Now I am not saying your dad and 2 uncles were not telling the truth, but the inquest did not actually see it that way.
posted on 29/5/20
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 4 hours, 2 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 33 minutes ago
sandy (U20567)
No sandy, it wasn't murder however you dress it up.
And no, it's nothing like the example you gave.
Whilst these people were thugs and their intentions were obviously not good, it's a massive stretch to say that they did what they did with the express intent of killing those people.
You need to step back and think about this one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have made my point, you can take it or leave it. Murder is not always intent. Plenty of murders take place that are not pre meditated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't know what murder is, clearly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well the killing of 39 innocent people by animals that called themselves Liverpool supporters, is murder in my book. Maybe we have different values.
posted on 29/5/20
No, you just dont know the meaning of words.
There's a word for what happened and it's called manslaughter and what's in your eyes is quite frankly irrelevant to that fact.
posted on 29/5/20
In the technical sense it was not a straight murder, but it was certainly murder in all but name.
———
Sandy redefining the meaning of words.
posted on 29/5/20
Hmm shouting murderers at strangers on the internet is the best way yet I’ve seen of honouring those who died.
Got to applaud Sandy for that.
posted on 29/5/20
It's bizarre.
posted on 29/5/20
I'm really surprised by the two nasty bitter Spurs supporters on this site. I always thought if anybody expressed these nasty views, it would have been United fans but you have to give credit where it's due, United fans on here, in the main appreciate that the main cause was those Liverpool fans involved but also understand the other causes.
I think they've, apart from one, been quote fair in their appraisal of the situation.
I knew Billy was like this, after he was posted in Twitter holding up the Sun newspaper saying they were right about Hillsborough but I'm surprised with Sandy. I used to ridicule his opinions, until I found out he was really a pensioner, then I decided to give him some respect. That is gone now. Back to ridiculing his stupid opinions.
posted on 29/5/20
In my experience, pensioners are often the most deserving of ridicule for their opinions. I guess it’s what happens when your cognitive functions start to deteriorate.
posted on 29/5/20
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 29 minutes ago
I'm really surprised by the two nasty bitter Spurs supporters on this site. I always thought if anybody expressed these nasty views, it would have been United fans but you have to give credit where it's due, United fans on here, in the main appreciate that the main cause was those Liverpool fans involved but also understand the other causes.
I think they've, apart from one, been quote fair in their appraisal of the situation.
I knew Billy was like this, after he was posted in Twitter holding up the Sun newspaper saying they were right about Hillsborough but I'm surprised with Sandy. I used to ridicule his opinions, until I found out he was really a pensioner, then I decided to give him some respect. That is gone now. Back to ridiculing his stupid opinions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If it is bitterness, I struggle to understand why.
Liverpool are nothing to Spurs and vice versa - I don’t mean that in a negative sense, just we’re not geographical rivals, and apart from last years UCL we’ve hardly been going toe to toe. Appreciate we’re both competing for Top 4, but so have a number of clubs for about 4-5 years. I find the obsession on this board bizarre.
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