United manager in pessed off about not being able to make transfer decisions shocker.
Mancini used to play 442 most of the time. He’s not in that category, he was pragmatic with his lineups wherever he’s been.
I don’t think Moyes was like this either. Mourinho and Van Gaal, as personalitiesc, are but the problem was that they didn’t actually go balls in with what they were trying to implement. That’s one of the reasons it didn’t work, they were trying to balance what they traditionally done with what was expected of United and what would get results. Which shows how big a job they had on their hands.
Mancini now can be viewed as pragmatic, but at the time he was so 'scared of losing' he played very risk-free football (not the same as parking the bus mind you) as he was still coaching his smaller italian sides earlier in his career.
Moyes was more and more fixated at crossing the ball into the box (I believe even a new game or season record amount of crosses), in stead of trying to break down teams which relies more on skill then luck.
I do agree that they are not as dogmatic as LVG an Mou, but the matter of fact that they where the appointed successors automatically resulted in a need for 5-6 crucial transfers to kickstart their playstyles. I believe Moyes, LVG and Mourinho only got 2-3 of their preferred transfers at most, while guys like Guardiola and Klopp got almost everything they wanted (by being oil rich or just very patient)
That wasn’t really how City played, most of the time. They had such an embarrassment of riches compared to everyone in the league that he often let them play without fear of losing - 442 with Toure in cm was often how he set up, this three dm’s stuff wasn’t really a thing. No doubt they played defensive as well, but that’s because he was pragmatic with the team depending on opponents - he’s never been a stubborn idealist.
Moyes not knowing how to get things to work for United doesn’t see him fall into that certain either, he tried many different ways of playing but to no avail.
I agree that Mourinho and LVG were hampered, especially compared to Pep, but they also got a lot of what they wanted as well. Just turns out many were crap/unsuited/they couldn’t get the best out of them.
It’s fair to criticise United’s transfer team while acknowledging these managers were a big problem with it as well.
The managers making excuses for their own failures doesn’t wash with me.
comment by Joe The King Exotic (U10026)
posted 13 minutes ago
The managers making excuses for their own failures doesn’t wash with me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats fair enough. For me the excuses are sufficiently valid for explaining why their gameplan didn't work out, but not for being midtable or on relegation form which almost all of them were at some point.
comment by Lerradinho (U21557)
posted 1 hour, 58 minutes ago
comment by Ole-Dirty-Baztard (U19119)
posted 25 minutes ago
I wondered who he wanted then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking at the way he likes to play and his history of getting players he knows from his previous teams and/or competitions, it's not hard to guess.
He definitely wanted a very good ball playing defender, most likely from Bayern or Dortmund (im guessing Boateng, Hummels or another German youngster) and got Rojo instead. He also most likely wanted 2 ballplaying defensive midfielders and got 1 he wanted (planning to play Blind in midfield or LB when playing 5 at the back).
He also got Herrera and Schneiderlin, but I think he only accepted those because his first choices fell through and he got Schweinsteiger as a sweetner. Gundogan, Wilshere, Ramsey and possibly even Moussa Dembele (the Spurs one, worked with him at AZ before) could have been his preferred options and the reason why he's disappointed Utd couldnt get players from 'smaller' clubs.
I'm also sure he wanted to convert Rooney in the 10 position from the start, that leaves only RVP up top. Deffo wanted to get another allround younger striker (not Lewa, Auba, maybe other German or Spanish one), and instead got Falcao as 7th choice. Quite soon fell in love with polishing Rashford up instead, so that was not a big loss for him i guess...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
this is just your imagination tho
at the time I remember getting very excited we were getting a dutch manager. I had only one wish VVD from celtic. Only to be told by my dutch mates that it was never happening since he hated VVD so much so he dropped VVD from the dutch team
comment by new cdm obsesion - julian garner (U13920)
posted 2 minutes ago
this is just your imagination tho
at the time I remember getting very excited we were getting a dutch manager. I had only one wish VVD from celtic. Only to be told by my dutch mates that it was never happening since he hated VVD so much so he dropped VVD from the dutch team
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I literally watched all his teams growing up, so you could at least call it an educated guess
But yeah, we'll never know for sure as he wont be managing a new team to prove my point and I don't see him revealing names in a 3 autobio book (his 2nd one came out recently).
But the VVD dream was indeed hopeless from the start. He didn't rate him highly as he found him to be lacking concentration and being too 'aloof' when in possession (bit like Ozil). Mind you opinions were split in Holland too and for the WC squad he basically picked experience above all in the fragile back line.
No he didn’t. De Vrij and Martins Indi started and they were younger than VVD. As were Veltman and Kongolo and Blind was a year older. Vlaar was the only old player that played regularly.
De Vrij and Indi had more years of experience playing for a top side in the league and/or Europe, VVD only played for Groningen before his 1 year at Celtic. Same for the Ajax guys, but yes you could obviously see how fragile this Dutch defense was. No one blamed him for playing 5 at the back.
But you’re saying he picked experience above all else, that obviously wasn’t the case as it was an inexperienced back line.
Indi didn’t have much more experience than VVD and neither did Veltman and Kongolo.
The back five was used to compensate for the injury to Strootman from what I remember. The whole team revolved around him and then Van Gaal went more defensive from how they’d played in qualifying because the midfield was weak without him.
comment by Lerradinho (U21557)
posted 2 hours, 16 minutes ago
comment by new cdm obsesion - julian garner (U13920)
posted 2 minutes ago
this is just your imagination tho
at the time I remember getting very excited we were getting a dutch manager. I had only one wish VVD from celtic. Only to be told by my dutch mates that it was never happening since he hated VVD so much so he dropped VVD from the dutch team
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I literally watched all his teams growing up, so you could at least call it an educated guess
But yeah, we'll never know for sure as he wont be managing a new team to prove my point and I don't see him revealing names in a 3 autobio book (his 2nd one came out recently).
But the VVD dream was indeed hopeless from the start. He didn't rate him highly as he found him to be lacking concentration and being too 'aloof' when in possession (bit like Ozil). Mind you opinions were split in Holland too and for the WC squad he basically picked experience above all in the fragile back line.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I owe you an unreserved apology
I made an assumption you were as ignorant about lvg as I and many utd fans were when he joined utd
comment by Lerradinho (U21557)
posted 8 hours, 3 minutes ago
comment by Ole-Dirty-Baztard (U19119)
posted 25 minutes ago
I wondered who he wanted then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking at the way he likes to play and his history of getting players he knows from his previous teams and/or competitions, it's not hard to guess.
He definitely wanted a very good ball playing defender, most likely from Bayern or Dortmund (im guessing Boateng, Hummels or another German youngster) and got Rojo instead. He also most likely wanted 2 ballplaying defensive midfielders and got 1 he wanted (planning to play Blind in midfield or LB when playing 5 at the back).
He also got Herrera and Schneiderlin, but I think he only accepted those because his first choices fell through and he got Schweinsteiger as a sweetner. Gundogan, Wilshere, Ramsey and possibly even Moussa Dembele (the Spurs one, worked with him at AZ before) could have been his preferred options and the reason why he's disappointed Utd couldnt get players from 'smaller' clubs.
I'm also sure he wanted to convert Rooney in the 10 position from the start, that leaves only RVP up top. Deffo wanted to get another allround younger striker (not Lewa, Auba, maybe other German or Spanish one), and instead got Falcao as 7th choice. Quite soon fell in love with polishing Rashford up instead, so that was not a big loss for him i guess...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve just made all of that up.
LvG demanded we signed Rojo after being so impressed with him at the World Cup.
He also pulled the plug on an already agreed deal for Toni Kroos.
comment by Joe The King Exotic (U10026)
posted 14 hours, 17 minutes ago
But you’re saying he picked experience above all else, that obviously wasn’t the case as it was an inexperienced back line.
Indi didn’t have much more experience than VVD and neither did Veltman and Kongolo.
The back five was used to compensate for the injury to Strootman from what I remember. The whole team revolved around him and then Van Gaal went more defensive from how they’d played in qualifying because the midfield was weak without him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Strootman's injury has him change his gamelan. And it's been a long time since I've heard that name.
comment by MUFCdan (U1463)
posted 15 hours, 20 minutes ago
comment by Lerradinho (U21557)
posted 8 hours, 3 minutes ago
comment by Ole-Dirty-Baztard (U19119)
posted 25 minutes ago
I wondered who he wanted then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking at the way he likes to play and his history of getting players he knows from his previous teams and/or competitions, it's not hard to guess.
He definitely wanted a very good ball playing defender, most likely from Bayern or Dortmund (im guessing Boateng, Hummels or another German youngster) and got Rojo instead. He also most likely wanted 2 ballplaying defensive midfielders and got 1 he wanted (planning to play Blind in midfield or LB when playing 5 at the back).
He also got Herrera and Schneiderlin, but I think he only accepted those because his first choices fell through and he got Schweinsteiger as a sweetner. Gundogan, Wilshere, Ramsey and possibly even Moussa Dembele (the Spurs one, worked with him at AZ before) could have been his preferred options and the reason why he's disappointed Utd couldnt get players from 'smaller' clubs.
I'm also sure he wanted to convert Rooney in the 10 position from the start, that leaves only RVP up top. Deffo wanted to get another allround younger striker (not Lewa, Auba, maybe other German or Spanish one), and instead got Falcao as 7th choice. Quite soon fell in love with polishing Rashford up instead, so that was not a big loss for him i guess...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve just made all of that up.
LvG demanded we signed Rojo after being so impressed with him at the World Cup.
He also pulled the plug on an already agreed deal for Toni Kroos.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The LVG revisionism does my head in.
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LVG - Signings
Page 2 of 2
posted on 28/5/20
United manager in pessed off about not being able to make transfer decisions shocker.
posted on 28/5/20
Mancini used to play 442 most of the time. He’s not in that category, he was pragmatic with his lineups wherever he’s been.
I don’t think Moyes was like this either. Mourinho and Van Gaal, as personalitiesc, are but the problem was that they didn’t actually go balls in with what they were trying to implement. That’s one of the reasons it didn’t work, they were trying to balance what they traditionally done with what was expected of United and what would get results. Which shows how big a job they had on their hands.
posted on 28/5/20
Mancini now can be viewed as pragmatic, but at the time he was so 'scared of losing' he played very risk-free football (not the same as parking the bus mind you) as he was still coaching his smaller italian sides earlier in his career.
Moyes was more and more fixated at crossing the ball into the box (I believe even a new game or season record amount of crosses), in stead of trying to break down teams which relies more on skill then luck.
I do agree that they are not as dogmatic as LVG an Mou, but the matter of fact that they where the appointed successors automatically resulted in a need for 5-6 crucial transfers to kickstart their playstyles. I believe Moyes, LVG and Mourinho only got 2-3 of their preferred transfers at most, while guys like Guardiola and Klopp got almost everything they wanted (by being oil rich or just very patient)
posted on 28/5/20
That wasn’t really how City played, most of the time. They had such an embarrassment of riches compared to everyone in the league that he often let them play without fear of losing - 442 with Toure in cm was often how he set up, this three dm’s stuff wasn’t really a thing. No doubt they played defensive as well, but that’s because he was pragmatic with the team depending on opponents - he’s never been a stubborn idealist.
Moyes not knowing how to get things to work for United doesn’t see him fall into that certain either, he tried many different ways of playing but to no avail.
I agree that Mourinho and LVG were hampered, especially compared to Pep, but they also got a lot of what they wanted as well. Just turns out many were crap/unsuited/they couldn’t get the best out of them.
It’s fair to criticise United’s transfer team while acknowledging these managers were a big problem with it as well.
The managers making excuses for their own failures doesn’t wash with me.
posted on 28/5/20
comment by Joe The King Exotic (U10026)
posted 13 minutes ago
The managers making excuses for their own failures doesn’t wash with me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats fair enough. For me the excuses are sufficiently valid for explaining why their gameplan didn't work out, but not for being midtable or on relegation form which almost all of them were at some point.
posted on 28/5/20
comment by Lerradinho (U21557)
posted 1 hour, 58 minutes ago
comment by Ole-Dirty-Baztard (U19119)
posted 25 minutes ago
I wondered who he wanted then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking at the way he likes to play and his history of getting players he knows from his previous teams and/or competitions, it's not hard to guess.
He definitely wanted a very good ball playing defender, most likely from Bayern or Dortmund (im guessing Boateng, Hummels or another German youngster) and got Rojo instead. He also most likely wanted 2 ballplaying defensive midfielders and got 1 he wanted (planning to play Blind in midfield or LB when playing 5 at the back).
He also got Herrera and Schneiderlin, but I think he only accepted those because his first choices fell through and he got Schweinsteiger as a sweetner. Gundogan, Wilshere, Ramsey and possibly even Moussa Dembele (the Spurs one, worked with him at AZ before) could have been his preferred options and the reason why he's disappointed Utd couldnt get players from 'smaller' clubs.
I'm also sure he wanted to convert Rooney in the 10 position from the start, that leaves only RVP up top. Deffo wanted to get another allround younger striker (not Lewa, Auba, maybe other German or Spanish one), and instead got Falcao as 7th choice. Quite soon fell in love with polishing Rashford up instead, so that was not a big loss for him i guess...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
this is just your imagination tho
at the time I remember getting very excited we were getting a dutch manager. I had only one wish VVD from celtic. Only to be told by my dutch mates that it was never happening since he hated VVD so much so he dropped VVD from the dutch team
posted on 28/5/20
comment by new cdm obsesion - julian garner (U13920)
posted 2 minutes ago
this is just your imagination tho
at the time I remember getting very excited we were getting a dutch manager. I had only one wish VVD from celtic. Only to be told by my dutch mates that it was never happening since he hated VVD so much so he dropped VVD from the dutch team
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I literally watched all his teams growing up, so you could at least call it an educated guess
But yeah, we'll never know for sure as he wont be managing a new team to prove my point and I don't see him revealing names in a 3 autobio book (his 2nd one came out recently).
But the VVD dream was indeed hopeless from the start. He didn't rate him highly as he found him to be lacking concentration and being too 'aloof' when in possession (bit like Ozil). Mind you opinions were split in Holland too and for the WC squad he basically picked experience above all in the fragile back line.
posted on 28/5/20
No he didn’t. De Vrij and Martins Indi started and they were younger than VVD. As were Veltman and Kongolo and Blind was a year older. Vlaar was the only old player that played regularly.
posted on 28/5/20
De Vrij and Indi had more years of experience playing for a top side in the league and/or Europe, VVD only played for Groningen before his 1 year at Celtic. Same for the Ajax guys, but yes you could obviously see how fragile this Dutch defense was. No one blamed him for playing 5 at the back.
posted on 28/5/20
But you’re saying he picked experience above all else, that obviously wasn’t the case as it was an inexperienced back line.
Indi didn’t have much more experience than VVD and neither did Veltman and Kongolo.
The back five was used to compensate for the injury to Strootman from what I remember. The whole team revolved around him and then Van Gaal went more defensive from how they’d played in qualifying because the midfield was weak without him.
posted on 28/5/20
comment by Lerradinho (U21557)
posted 2 hours, 16 minutes ago
comment by new cdm obsesion - julian garner (U13920)
posted 2 minutes ago
this is just your imagination tho
at the time I remember getting very excited we were getting a dutch manager. I had only one wish VVD from celtic. Only to be told by my dutch mates that it was never happening since he hated VVD so much so he dropped VVD from the dutch team
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I literally watched all his teams growing up, so you could at least call it an educated guess
But yeah, we'll never know for sure as he wont be managing a new team to prove my point and I don't see him revealing names in a 3 autobio book (his 2nd one came out recently).
But the VVD dream was indeed hopeless from the start. He didn't rate him highly as he found him to be lacking concentration and being too 'aloof' when in possession (bit like Ozil). Mind you opinions were split in Holland too and for the WC squad he basically picked experience above all in the fragile back line.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I owe you an unreserved apology
I made an assumption you were as ignorant about lvg as I and many utd fans were when he joined utd
posted on 29/5/20
comment by Lerradinho (U21557)
posted 8 hours, 3 minutes ago
comment by Ole-Dirty-Baztard (U19119)
posted 25 minutes ago
I wondered who he wanted then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking at the way he likes to play and his history of getting players he knows from his previous teams and/or competitions, it's not hard to guess.
He definitely wanted a very good ball playing defender, most likely from Bayern or Dortmund (im guessing Boateng, Hummels or another German youngster) and got Rojo instead. He also most likely wanted 2 ballplaying defensive midfielders and got 1 he wanted (planning to play Blind in midfield or LB when playing 5 at the back).
He also got Herrera and Schneiderlin, but I think he only accepted those because his first choices fell through and he got Schweinsteiger as a sweetner. Gundogan, Wilshere, Ramsey and possibly even Moussa Dembele (the Spurs one, worked with him at AZ before) could have been his preferred options and the reason why he's disappointed Utd couldnt get players from 'smaller' clubs.
I'm also sure he wanted to convert Rooney in the 10 position from the start, that leaves only RVP up top. Deffo wanted to get another allround younger striker (not Lewa, Auba, maybe other German or Spanish one), and instead got Falcao as 7th choice. Quite soon fell in love with polishing Rashford up instead, so that was not a big loss for him i guess...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve just made all of that up.
LvG demanded we signed Rojo after being so impressed with him at the World Cup.
He also pulled the plug on an already agreed deal for Toni Kroos.
posted on 29/5/20
comment by Joe The King Exotic (U10026)
posted 14 hours, 17 minutes ago
But you’re saying he picked experience above all else, that obviously wasn’t the case as it was an inexperienced back line.
Indi didn’t have much more experience than VVD and neither did Veltman and Kongolo.
The back five was used to compensate for the injury to Strootman from what I remember. The whole team revolved around him and then Van Gaal went more defensive from how they’d played in qualifying because the midfield was weak without him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Strootman's injury has him change his gamelan. And it's been a long time since I've heard that name.
posted on 29/5/20
comment by MUFCdan (U1463)
posted 15 hours, 20 minutes ago
comment by Lerradinho (U21557)
posted 8 hours, 3 minutes ago
comment by Ole-Dirty-Baztard (U19119)
posted 25 minutes ago
I wondered who he wanted then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking at the way he likes to play and his history of getting players he knows from his previous teams and/or competitions, it's not hard to guess.
He definitely wanted a very good ball playing defender, most likely from Bayern or Dortmund (im guessing Boateng, Hummels or another German youngster) and got Rojo instead. He also most likely wanted 2 ballplaying defensive midfielders and got 1 he wanted (planning to play Blind in midfield or LB when playing 5 at the back).
He also got Herrera and Schneiderlin, but I think he only accepted those because his first choices fell through and he got Schweinsteiger as a sweetner. Gundogan, Wilshere, Ramsey and possibly even Moussa Dembele (the Spurs one, worked with him at AZ before) could have been his preferred options and the reason why he's disappointed Utd couldnt get players from 'smaller' clubs.
I'm also sure he wanted to convert Rooney in the 10 position from the start, that leaves only RVP up top. Deffo wanted to get another allround younger striker (not Lewa, Auba, maybe other German or Spanish one), and instead got Falcao as 7th choice. Quite soon fell in love with polishing Rashford up instead, so that was not a big loss for him i guess...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve just made all of that up.
LvG demanded we signed Rojo after being so impressed with him at the World Cup.
He also pulled the plug on an already agreed deal for Toni Kroos.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The LVG revisionism does my head in.
Page 2 of 2