It’s not going to change Mersey because Rodgers doesn’t see it. It was clear last night he feels it’s down to fitness, presumably oblivious to the fact the only team we can beat right now is an absolutely shambolic Villa side.
We don’t have the home crowd to carry us through and he he has no answers to get the players back playing on the front foot. His tactics are dreadful and like everywhere he’s been (bar Celtic) he’s fading quickly. Just as we’ve given him a long term contract
Would you sack him BS? Even if he got you CL football?
Also if yes who would you replace him with?
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 51 minutes ago
Would you sack him BS? Even if he got you CL football?
Also if yes who would you replace him with?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No absolutely not of he got us CL football but I doubt we’ll get that. I wouldn’t sack him if we didn’t either - he’s improved us, no question, but he needs to show that he’s developing and pushing this team forward.
Ultimately my prediction is that we won’t get CL, we’ll end up in the Europa and he’ll have a really poor season after a couple of key players are sold. Eventually the club will get rid - history suggests that’s the most likely route and then the club, as they often do, start all over again
As I’m typing this our CL buffer has been cut to 6 points which will become 3 by the time Wolves beat Villa on Saturday
They’re closing in and time has run out
He needs to mix our play up a bit when we play specific opponents such as Brighton and Watford. His stubborn unwillingness to do this may cost us CL football.
At the moment Mersey we as fans just need to be a bit patient, 2 games back after 100 days inactivity is affecting lots of teams.
We've had this with every Manager for goodness knows how many Years where they have periods they look lost about what to do, they have to work through it as do the players.
To me I have the belief we have a pretty decent Manager and a very Good squad, they'll get there.
Go back to having the Faith and showing the Faith.
comment by True Blue (U9486)
posted 2 minutes ago
At the moment Mersey we as fans just need to be a bit patient, 2 games back after 100 days inactivity is affecting lots of teams.
We've had this with every Manager for goodness knows how many Years where they have periods they look lost about what to do, they have to work through it as do the players.
To me I have the belief we have a pretty decent Manager and a very Good squad, they'll get there.
Go back to having the Faith and showing the Faith.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It depends what your expectations are. If you’re happy with 6th place, because you didn’t feel we would ever get CL, then you’re unlikely to be disappointed and will view the season as a success
But what you’re not acknowledging in this post is that the slump began with Norwich at home in December. It’s not just 4 or 5 games - like Puel, who started brilliantly by the way, he’s coming undone.
I think we’ll scrape Europa and have a poor season next year which will lead to the same old cycle of Leicester ever since they sacked Pearson - make another change, never really sure on what it is they are trying to do
Firstly, I wouldn’t have Gray starting. He just simply is not good enough at this level. I’ve openly defended him before but I doubt very much my opinion will change on that now.
What we are not doing is breaking between the lines. Admittedly, it’s pretty hard when a team plays like Moldova vs England like the second half last night, but there have been too many games now, where this has not been visible.
I don’t mind Maddison playing on the left of midfield, the issue is that it is completely reliant on Chilwell being excellent. In reality, the best we have looked with this group of players is with Maddison in a relatively free role behind Vardy.
But then....this is reliant on our potential best central midfielder in YT playing well. I could go on with this, and what it tells us is that we don’t have enough PL experienced, attacking, quality players to carry us when we aren’t cohesive and performing well enough.
But then....our talent, on the whole, is comparatively very young...which is raw and exciting and what provides a certain buzz but also means when momentum slows...it really slows.
It’s very difficult to critique in some ways. Yes, Rodgers has made some mistakes but a)I think he has provided far more positives than negatives and b) if at least a percentage of our best players had been more consistent, BR’s errors would probably have had much less impact.
But then....it’s hard to criticise these players as they are so young and relatively inexperienced in the PL.
What I would say is that our ethos is to play this passing and attacking football which is easy on the eye and, as a result, that is reliant on your attacking, creative players. I think we have one - in Maddison. Who, for me, has been relatively poor all season. But then...I wonder if this just seems poor compared to what he did initially at our club.
What I do know is we need more creative players. And players who are experienced and ready to hit the ground running.
This has been the next step that we haven’t made for a while - being able to buy top class players within their ‘peak’ years.
I think if we can bumble through this season, get CL football and hold on to the majority of our top class players (the only one I see going is Chilwell and I really don’t care if we have a replacement), we have a chance of moving to this next level. And if we do put ourselves in a position of adding ready-made quality to what is an excellent collection of young players, we really would be looking at a team that people may sit up and think is the real deal with regard to challenging the status quo.
As a post-script - I’m laying in a pool, drinking beer and watching several PL games at once...so what I’m saying may just be a load of b077ocks
I agree with everything you say there ktf1
KTF - in your opinion, and with the gap set to be 3 points to 5th place by Saturday, what do you think will be the likely short term future of the club if we blow our chance of CL football?
Bumbling through doesn’t look likely with 6 games left, probably a 3 point cushion and relegation form. We also have Spurs and United as our last 2 games of the season
comment by True Blue (U9486)
posted 9 minutes ago
I agree with everything you say there ktf1
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t go and invalidate everything he’s just said
KTF1 is my new hero. Joby has a lot to live up to these days.
My concern is that what I saw against Brighton isn’t quickly fixable. You can’t start winning until you’ve spent some time not winning but creating chances. Right now we’re not winning or creating chances.
Given the short time period, I only see easing us into a playing style as having one result - the season will be over before we’re up to speed. So my proposal for fixing things is to get players on the pitch in normal positions, don’t worry about pretty possession football and put all the pressure we can on forcing mistakes out of the opposing defenders. Stop trying to score unpreventable goals and press the opposition into conceding preventable ones. Stop looking like we’re scared of losing control of games and start taking fast, attacking risks in attacking positions. And bin off Gray - he can’t press like Perez and Albrighton can, and Barnes looks a greater creative threat.
And beyond everything, stop thinking that possession is going to solve everything. We haven’t been passing the ball around sharply enough to wear anyone down anyway.
I hope we go all out attack against Chelsea on Sunday. We have to get attacking and creating again.
Yep, pretty much agree with that Dunge. The only reason I say Gray is because Perez and Albrighton look very ineffective. So does Gray, just the best of a bad bunch!
I think a lot of the blame for this is being put on the enforced break - but let’s be clear, we’ve been fading since Christmas. No question that the players aren’t up to speed yet but it’s the same for everyone
Could you honestly have seen us going to Vicarage Road and getting 3 points given the run we were on back in March? The form table from Feb doesn’t really suggest that to be the case
I think Watford was likely to be a tough game, but we should have been beating Brighton at home. They have the second worst squad in the league. To not create anything describable as a chance was pathetic.
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 1 hour, 22 minutes ago
I think Watford was likely to be a tough game, but we should have been beating Brighton at home. They have the second worst squad in the league. To not create anything describable as a chance was pathetic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True. But before CoVID. we got beaten by Norwich and drew with them at home, got dumped out of the semi finals by a very poor Villa side, comfortably outplayed by Southampton at home and beaten, beaten by Burnley - there’s nothing really to suggest we should have been beating Brighton either. We’re a poor side right now and have been for months
We weren't good then either, but I believe the lockdown should have rendered all previous form null.
I wonder what Chelsea will do on Sunday. It's a faster turnaround for them and they might see more of an argument for playing their reserves, at least in part.
Not sure why the lockdown would render all previous form as null? Quite often teams ended previous seasons well actually take that momentum into the new one. If tactical decisions, possibly confidence and starting line ups were a factor before covid, then they will be a factor after covid. In other words the problems don’t disappear because you haven’t played for a while
I'd have thought that something as unusual as coronavirus would have been a leveller though. Although looking at some of the scores around it doesn't appear that way, granted.
Sadly having seen us totally inept in the two matches since the restart, we haven't been able to turn around the pre lockdown form, I've taken the easy way out and written off the CL and the FA cup. Oh well lets see how next season turns out in whatever form it takes
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
It’s not going to change Mersey because Rodgers doesn’t see it. It was clear last night he feels it’s down to fitness, presumably oblivious to the fact the only team we can beat right now is an absolutely shambolic Villa side.
We don’t have the home crowd to carry us through and he he has no answers to get the players back playing on the front foot. His tactics are dreadful and like everywhere he’s been (bar Celtic) he’s fading quickly. Just as we’ve given him a long term contract
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Celtic fan in peace (my missus is from Leicester), but this happened when BR was with us as well. Don’t get me wrong, overall he brought a welcome level of professionalism to us, and won 7 domestic trophies out of 7 ... but the drop off in performance levels over his 2 and a half seasons was marked. Superb first season, second full season was getting dull ... final half season was utterly brutal to watch, with sideways passing across the back 4 which was coma-inducing. Domestically Celtic are generally up against teams with packed defences ... that slow deliberate build up just made their task even easier. BR has many qualities IMO, but he needs to find different ways to play the game at times.
I also suspect that his tendency towards “David Brent speak“ has a limited shelf life with any group of players. Seems like a breath of fresh air for a while, but the more you listen to it ... Is he still saying “like I say” in virtually every sentence?
Our form dipped after the 0-4 home drubbing by Liverpool, followed by the 3-1 reverse at Man City. It seems to have knocked the belief out of the team. Up until then we were going great guns even unluckily losing at both Old Trafford and Anfield. How we fix it, I'm not sure. Playing two defensive midfielders certainly isn't the answer. An older head in midfield, a " midfield general" type player is possibly what's required, a Cambiasso type of player would probably knit the team together.
I think playing what appears to be our best formation and current best 11 for the remainder of the season is a starting point. If anything, this would actually take pressure off of Rodgers.
I don’t really like this idea of rotating constantly to avoid fatigue. Play your best team and if some of them become tired react to it then rather than trying to prevent them becoming tired in the first place.
Play your best 11 and have a chance of winning and then having to rest some players vs. Rotating players around to prevent tiredness but dramatically affecting our chances of winning a game. Surely this isn’t even a deliberation there - particularly at this stage of the season, with wins now so imperative and without the depth of squad required to balance this whilst fighting for a CL spot.
Every team, to a certain extent, is in the same position from a fitness perspective, why add another issue by weakening our first 11.
Let’s be honest there’s 1, 2 at most spots that are up for grabs.
Just as a note about the motivational side of this - if we win the next two games and Man U & Wolves drop points in that time, the pressure is completely on those two to avoid dropping points.
We should be giving everything in these next two league fixtures and worry about anything else after
If we win the next two games and Utd and Wolves drop points I’ll eat my hat, sick it up and eat it again.
That said, we have to win at least one of our next two fixtures. Let’s hope Everton are already on the beach and Palace look like they did against Liverpool!
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posted on 24/6/20
It’s not going to change Mersey because Rodgers doesn’t see it. It was clear last night he feels it’s down to fitness, presumably oblivious to the fact the only team we can beat right now is an absolutely shambolic Villa side.
We don’t have the home crowd to carry us through and he he has no answers to get the players back playing on the front foot. His tactics are dreadful and like everywhere he’s been (bar Celtic) he’s fading quickly. Just as we’ve given him a long term contract
posted on 24/6/20
Would you sack him BS? Even if he got you CL football?
Also if yes who would you replace him with?
posted on 24/6/20
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 51 minutes ago
Would you sack him BS? Even if he got you CL football?
Also if yes who would you replace him with?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No absolutely not of he got us CL football but I doubt we’ll get that. I wouldn’t sack him if we didn’t either - he’s improved us, no question, but he needs to show that he’s developing and pushing this team forward.
Ultimately my prediction is that we won’t get CL, we’ll end up in the Europa and he’ll have a really poor season after a couple of key players are sold. Eventually the club will get rid - history suggests that’s the most likely route and then the club, as they often do, start all over again
As I’m typing this our CL buffer has been cut to 6 points which will become 3 by the time Wolves beat Villa on Saturday
They’re closing in and time has run out
posted on 24/6/20
He needs to mix our play up a bit when we play specific opponents such as Brighton and Watford. His stubborn unwillingness to do this may cost us CL football.
posted on 24/6/20
At the moment Mersey we as fans just need to be a bit patient, 2 games back after 100 days inactivity is affecting lots of teams.
We've had this with every Manager for goodness knows how many Years where they have periods they look lost about what to do, they have to work through it as do the players.
To me I have the belief we have a pretty decent Manager and a very Good squad, they'll get there.
Go back to having the Faith and showing the Faith.
posted on 24/6/20
comment by True Blue (U9486)
posted 2 minutes ago
At the moment Mersey we as fans just need to be a bit patient, 2 games back after 100 days inactivity is affecting lots of teams.
We've had this with every Manager for goodness knows how many Years where they have periods they look lost about what to do, they have to work through it as do the players.
To me I have the belief we have a pretty decent Manager and a very Good squad, they'll get there.
Go back to having the Faith and showing the Faith.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It depends what your expectations are. If you’re happy with 6th place, because you didn’t feel we would ever get CL, then you’re unlikely to be disappointed and will view the season as a success
But what you’re not acknowledging in this post is that the slump began with Norwich at home in December. It’s not just 4 or 5 games - like Puel, who started brilliantly by the way, he’s coming undone.
I think we’ll scrape Europa and have a poor season next year which will lead to the same old cycle of Leicester ever since they sacked Pearson - make another change, never really sure on what it is they are trying to do
posted on 24/6/20
Firstly, I wouldn’t have Gray starting. He just simply is not good enough at this level. I’ve openly defended him before but I doubt very much my opinion will change on that now.
What we are not doing is breaking between the lines. Admittedly, it’s pretty hard when a team plays like Moldova vs England like the second half last night, but there have been too many games now, where this has not been visible.
I don’t mind Maddison playing on the left of midfield, the issue is that it is completely reliant on Chilwell being excellent. In reality, the best we have looked with this group of players is with Maddison in a relatively free role behind Vardy.
But then....this is reliant on our potential best central midfielder in YT playing well. I could go on with this, and what it tells us is that we don’t have enough PL experienced, attacking, quality players to carry us when we aren’t cohesive and performing well enough.
But then....our talent, on the whole, is comparatively very young...which is raw and exciting and what provides a certain buzz but also means when momentum slows...it really slows.
It’s very difficult to critique in some ways. Yes, Rodgers has made some mistakes but a)I think he has provided far more positives than negatives and b) if at least a percentage of our best players had been more consistent, BR’s errors would probably have had much less impact.
But then....it’s hard to criticise these players as they are so young and relatively inexperienced in the PL.
What I would say is that our ethos is to play this passing and attacking football which is easy on the eye and, as a result, that is reliant on your attacking, creative players. I think we have one - in Maddison. Who, for me, has been relatively poor all season. But then...I wonder if this just seems poor compared to what he did initially at our club.
What I do know is we need more creative players. And players who are experienced and ready to hit the ground running.
This has been the next step that we haven’t made for a while - being able to buy top class players within their ‘peak’ years.
I think if we can bumble through this season, get CL football and hold on to the majority of our top class players (the only one I see going is Chilwell and I really don’t care if we have a replacement), we have a chance of moving to this next level. And if we do put ourselves in a position of adding ready-made quality to what is an excellent collection of young players, we really would be looking at a team that people may sit up and think is the real deal with regard to challenging the status quo.
As a post-script - I’m laying in a pool, drinking beer and watching several PL games at once...so what I’m saying may just be a load of b077ocks
posted on 24/6/20
I agree with everything you say there ktf1
posted on 24/6/20
KTF - in your opinion, and with the gap set to be 3 points to 5th place by Saturday, what do you think will be the likely short term future of the club if we blow our chance of CL football?
Bumbling through doesn’t look likely with 6 games left, probably a 3 point cushion and relegation form. We also have Spurs and United as our last 2 games of the season
posted on 24/6/20
comment by True Blue (U9486)
posted 9 minutes ago
I agree with everything you say there ktf1
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t go and invalidate everything he’s just said
posted on 24/6/20
KTF1 is my new hero. Joby has a lot to live up to these days.
posted on 24/6/20
My concern is that what I saw against Brighton isn’t quickly fixable. You can’t start winning until you’ve spent some time not winning but creating chances. Right now we’re not winning or creating chances.
Given the short time period, I only see easing us into a playing style as having one result - the season will be over before we’re up to speed. So my proposal for fixing things is to get players on the pitch in normal positions, don’t worry about pretty possession football and put all the pressure we can on forcing mistakes out of the opposing defenders. Stop trying to score unpreventable goals and press the opposition into conceding preventable ones. Stop looking like we’re scared of losing control of games and start taking fast, attacking risks in attacking positions. And bin off Gray - he can’t press like Perez and Albrighton can, and Barnes looks a greater creative threat.
And beyond everything, stop thinking that possession is going to solve everything. We haven’t been passing the ball around sharply enough to wear anyone down anyway.
I hope we go all out attack against Chelsea on Sunday. We have to get attacking and creating again.
posted on 25/6/20
Yep, pretty much agree with that Dunge. The only reason I say Gray is because Perez and Albrighton look very ineffective. So does Gray, just the best of a bad bunch!
posted on 25/6/20
I think a lot of the blame for this is being put on the enforced break - but let’s be clear, we’ve been fading since Christmas. No question that the players aren’t up to speed yet but it’s the same for everyone
Could you honestly have seen us going to Vicarage Road and getting 3 points given the run we were on back in March? The form table from Feb doesn’t really suggest that to be the case
posted on 25/6/20
I think Watford was likely to be a tough game, but we should have been beating Brighton at home. They have the second worst squad in the league. To not create anything describable as a chance was pathetic.
posted on 25/6/20
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 1 hour, 22 minutes ago
I think Watford was likely to be a tough game, but we should have been beating Brighton at home. They have the second worst squad in the league. To not create anything describable as a chance was pathetic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True. But before CoVID. we got beaten by Norwich and drew with them at home, got dumped out of the semi finals by a very poor Villa side, comfortably outplayed by Southampton at home and beaten, beaten by Burnley - there’s nothing really to suggest we should have been beating Brighton either. We’re a poor side right now and have been for months
posted on 25/6/20
We weren't good then either, but I believe the lockdown should have rendered all previous form null.
I wonder what Chelsea will do on Sunday. It's a faster turnaround for them and they might see more of an argument for playing their reserves, at least in part.
posted on 25/6/20
Not sure why the lockdown would render all previous form as null? Quite often teams ended previous seasons well actually take that momentum into the new one. If tactical decisions, possibly confidence and starting line ups were a factor before covid, then they will be a factor after covid. In other words the problems don’t disappear because you haven’t played for a while
posted on 25/6/20
I'd have thought that something as unusual as coronavirus would have been a leveller though. Although looking at some of the scores around it doesn't appear that way, granted.
posted on 25/6/20
Sadly having seen us totally inept in the two matches since the restart, we haven't been able to turn around the pre lockdown form, I've taken the easy way out and written off the CL and the FA cup. Oh well lets see how next season turns out in whatever form it takes
posted on 26/6/20
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 1 day, 20 hours ago
It’s not going to change Mersey because Rodgers doesn’t see it. It was clear last night he feels it’s down to fitness, presumably oblivious to the fact the only team we can beat right now is an absolutely shambolic Villa side.
We don’t have the home crowd to carry us through and he he has no answers to get the players back playing on the front foot. His tactics are dreadful and like everywhere he’s been (bar Celtic) he’s fading quickly. Just as we’ve given him a long term contract
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Celtic fan in peace (my missus is from Leicester), but this happened when BR was with us as well. Don’t get me wrong, overall he brought a welcome level of professionalism to us, and won 7 domestic trophies out of 7 ... but the drop off in performance levels over his 2 and a half seasons was marked. Superb first season, second full season was getting dull ... final half season was utterly brutal to watch, with sideways passing across the back 4 which was coma-inducing. Domestically Celtic are generally up against teams with packed defences ... that slow deliberate build up just made their task even easier. BR has many qualities IMO, but he needs to find different ways to play the game at times.
I also suspect that his tendency towards “David Brent speak“ has a limited shelf life with any group of players. Seems like a breath of fresh air for a while, but the more you listen to it ... Is he still saying “like I say” in virtually every sentence?
posted on 26/6/20
Our form dipped after the 0-4 home drubbing by Liverpool, followed by the 3-1 reverse at Man City. It seems to have knocked the belief out of the team. Up until then we were going great guns even unluckily losing at both Old Trafford and Anfield. How we fix it, I'm not sure. Playing two defensive midfielders certainly isn't the answer. An older head in midfield, a " midfield general" type player is possibly what's required, a Cambiasso type of player would probably knit the team together.
posted on 26/6/20
I think playing what appears to be our best formation and current best 11 for the remainder of the season is a starting point. If anything, this would actually take pressure off of Rodgers.
I don’t really like this idea of rotating constantly to avoid fatigue. Play your best team and if some of them become tired react to it then rather than trying to prevent them becoming tired in the first place.
Play your best 11 and have a chance of winning and then having to rest some players vs. Rotating players around to prevent tiredness but dramatically affecting our chances of winning a game. Surely this isn’t even a deliberation there - particularly at this stage of the season, with wins now so imperative and without the depth of squad required to balance this whilst fighting for a CL spot.
Every team, to a certain extent, is in the same position from a fitness perspective, why add another issue by weakening our first 11.
Let’s be honest there’s 1, 2 at most spots that are up for grabs.
posted on 26/6/20
Just as a note about the motivational side of this - if we win the next two games and Man U & Wolves drop points in that time, the pressure is completely on those two to avoid dropping points.
We should be giving everything in these next two league fixtures and worry about anything else after
posted on 27/6/20
If we win the next two games and Utd and Wolves drop points I’ll eat my hat, sick it up and eat it again.
That said, we have to win at least one of our next two fixtures. Let’s hope Everton are already on the beach and Palace look like they did against Liverpool!
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