We the fans could do more to help if we want big name signings. We all know that Pogba made the £90m we spent on him back by selling shirts, in just one year. Could we not set up our own stands selling Pogba shirts and give the profits to United? Say there are 1bn United fans worldwide. Each sell 100 Pogba shirts and 50 Bruno shirts, and lets say £25 profit on the shirts. That works out as around £375bn.
That is 7500 Sanchos. These are only the daily figures as well. We can afford 7500 Sanchos per day, if we just got up off of our backsides and started selling some shirts like Pogba did.
Tldr;
pandemic bad
money down
Why use many words when few words do
Excellent post RR. And raises points many won’t have considered in any great detail.
It is definitely time us the fans started giving back though. The majority of us have been given some of the best times of our lives by United for FREE. We just sit and watch and don't contribute. Now is the time to give back. I will be donating this month's wage to United. It's not much but I think we all need to be doing something instead of take, take, take, which we have been doing all our lives.
comment by Benjamin Kallman (U1734)
posted 3 minutes ago
It is definitely time us the fans started giving back though. The majority of us have been given some of the best times of our lives by United for FREE. We just sit and watch and don't contribute. Now is the time to give back. I will be donating this month's wage to United. It's not much but I think we all need to be doing something instead of take, take, take, which we have been doing all our lives.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You mean you don’t watch your free stream dressed in a full kit, Man Utd jacket and tracksuit?
I bought a retro strip from ebay from the early 90s to make it look like that I was a long term, hardcore supporter. But anyone with a brain cell could probably work out that I wouldn't be wearing an adult's shirt when I was 3 years old, but people are stupid so it is fine.
comment by Rage of Reaper (U4088)
posted 26 minutes ago
Tldr;
pandemic bad
money down
Why use many words when few words do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, RoR, didn't read that - seemed so short that it was unlikely to say anything of substance.
Good art RR. As it appears Germany handled the crisis better than, maybe Dortmund won't be struggling as much as us, so don't need to raise money. I'm obviously thinking about Sancho.
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 3 minutes ago
Good art RR. As it appears Germany handled the crisis better than, maybe Dortmund won't be struggling as much as us, so don't need to raise money. I'm obviously thinking about Sancho.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's possible, 52. On one hand, Dortmund's income is more reliant on the domestic German market (as Bundesliga isn't so big around the world) and, as you said, Germany looks as though it will be among the most unscathed economies. On the other hand, I'd guess Dortmund's TV and sponsorship revenues are lower (absolutely and proportionate to total revenue), so I'd speculate they may be more exposed to drastically reduced gate receipts than United would be.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Rage of Reaper (U4088)
posted 26 minutes ago
Tldr;
pandemic bad
money down
Why use many words when few words do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, RoR, didn't read that - seemed so short that it was unlikely to say anything of substance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
UTD will be ok once their pug breeding operation goes full only, not to mentioned the personalised butt pugs that admin 1 is helping with
Like with most economic disasters, it will affect the less affluent more. In footballing terms other clubs who are almost purely reliant on TV and gate receipts will really feel a huge hit.
I don’t think that spending what we have to to get Sancho in for £100m say, even with the negative effects from corona on our revenues, will look naive at any point. We’re in that fortunate position along with a handful of other fortunate clubs around the world.
If we do not sell anyone and only buy Sancho at that price, isn’t that around 30-40% less than we spent last summer? I think the point that people are making re: Sancho is specific to Sancho alone because he’s such a special talent in a position that we so badly need sorting and have down for years.
For example, if people were backing a proposed new stadium at the cost of around £1bn then I would agree with the article in its entirety.
£100m for Sancho I don’t think will look naive in the wake of the pending economic impact from corona.
If we take out the discussion of Sancho and the figure of £50m or £100m then I don’t understand the concept of your article. That the economic effects have not yet arrived yet, they’re going to be bad so let’s not forget that?
I didn’t think anyone had forgotten that incredibly hard times are coming, for probably every industry.
Or do you want to debate in which areas might be more affected than others?
Sorry if I’m being a little tunnel visioned or ignorant but I’m a little confused.
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - Ole's joy Manticore (U2958)
posted 13 minutes ago
UTD will be ok once their pug breeding operation goes full only, not to mentioned the personalised butt pugs that admin 1 is helping with
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Pugba £299.99 from the megastore?
Do you make Paul Pugba a black pug?
comment by Benjamin Kallman (U1734)
posted 17 minutes ago
Do you make Paul Pugba a black pug?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
😂
Sat Nav, I'm not making any concrete claims. I suppose my basic points would be:
1) The drop in revenue combined with fairly stable costs could see us making a loss in the next year, even without any transfer dealings.
2) Given the overall reduction in revenue throughout the sport, it's likely that the going rate for transfers and in future salary negotiations will drop broadly in line with the reduced amount of money in the game.
3) I'm in no position to quantify any of these things, just to speculate about the overall dynamics of what impacts on the finances and the market, and how that may differ from before. Therefore, I'm not going to say "Sancho is only worth £50m now" or "we can't afford £100m". However, I don't think it's out of the question that the 50m story we read this week is wide off the mark.
4) Since all big clubs are in the same boat I'm sure we'll still see players moving between clubs. (That said, if there is pressure to reduce wage bills, players and agents might consider this is a good time to sit tight on existing contracts.) When players do move, clubs bound by market realities will have to spend their money based on the financial conditions, which will surely have a deflationary effect.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 13 minutes ago
Sat Nav, I'm not making any concrete claims. I suppose my basic points would be:
1) The drop in revenue combined with fairly stable costs could see us making a loss in the next year, even without any transfer dealings.
2) Given the overall reduction in revenue throughout the sport, it's likely that the going rate for transfers and in future salary negotiations will drop broadly in line with the reduced amount of money in the game.
3) I'm in no position to quantify any of these things, just to speculate about the overall dynamics of what impacts on the finances and the market, and how that may differ from before. Therefore, I'm not going to say "Sancho is only worth £50m now" or "we can't afford £100m". However, I don't think it's out of the question that the 50m story we read this week is wide off the mark.
4) Since all big clubs are in the same boat I'm sure we'll still see players moving between clubs. (That said, if there is pressure to reduce wage bills, players and agents might consider this is a good time to sit tight on existing contracts.) When players do move, clubs bound by market realities will have to spend their money based on the financial conditions, which will surely have a deflationary effect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gotcha.
It’ll be interesting to see how it pans out. People thought the same with the housing market in 2009 and again after brexit but looking back now, 2009 was the year to buy!
And to stick with the analogy, if you want that house on Kensington Palace Gardens, then you’re going to have to spend big bucks to get it.
I’m sure they will be a slight correction but I wouldn’t be shocked if in 2-3 years we’re back to paying £50m for the likes of Fred (no slight on Fred he’s done ok).
The economic impact of Brexit is still to be seen. We're out of the EU now but until the end of the year still able to trade as we were as members, due to the transition agreement. Currently it looks as though we're going to crash out without a comprehensive trade deal, and no one credible believes this will have anything other than a significantly negative effect on the economy.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 18 minutes ago
The economic impact of Brexit is still to be seen. We're out of the EU now but until the end of the year still able to trade as we were as members, due to the transition agreement. Currently it looks as though we're going to crash out without a comprehensive trade deal, and no one credible believes this will have anything other than a significantly negative effect on the economy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I should have been more precise, I meant the negative impact of the result of the referendum.
No one serious was predicting the referendum result would have a massive economic impact (though it has had some in terms of businesses delaying or redirecting investments in the UK). Certainly any such predictions were speculative and very hard to evidence, because they would have been based on expectations about business confidence before anything substantive had changed.
By contrast, the UK government produced its own impact studied about what different Brexit deal outcomes would do to our economy. These indicated a small negative impact in the case of leaving the EU but remaining in the Single Market like Norway; a significant negative impact if we had a hard Brexit along the lines of May's deal; and a severe impact if we ended up trading on (or close to) WHO terms. Those are this country's best guesses, based on the most complete data, interpreted by the government's impartial expert Civil Servants. May's government was reluctant to share this information, and Johnson's is now in the midst of an unprecedented reform of the Civil Service to enforce leadership of departments by political appointees instead of non-partisan advisors.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
No one serious was predicting the referendum result would have a massive economic impact (though it has had some in terms of businesses delaying or redirecting investments in the UK). Certainly any such predictions were speculative and very hard to evidence, because they would have been based on expectations about business confidence before anything substantive had changed.
By contrast, the UK government produced its own impact studied about what different Brexit deal outcomes would do to our economy. These indicated a small negative impact in the case of leaving the EU but remaining in the Single Market like Norway; a significant negative impact if we had a hard Brexit along the lines of May's deal; and a severe impact if we ended up trading on (or close to) WHO terms. Those are this country's best guesses, based on the most complete data, interpreted by the government's impartial expert Civil Servants. May's government was reluctant to share this information, and Johnson's is now in the midst of an unprecedented reform of the Civil Service to enforce leadership of departments by political appointees instead of non-partisan advisors.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Speculation has quite an impact. It came down to the simple argument of ‘well Brexit is going to be an economic nightmare so I’ll pay less for your service or product’
It’s same now with Covid, many people’s purchase trends and trades have significantly changed due to the predicted nightmare that is ahead of us.
My point relates to the position of buyer & seller. If Dortmund are completely crippled financially by August say then they’ll have to sell him, it will then come down to demand and so on.
We can speculate (and I have done a bit above in reply to 52) about the relative impacts on United and Dortmund. That's obviously one key variable that will affect willingness to sell and buy. But all things being equal, if there's a lot less money coming into the sport, that will impact the price.
Woodward will have much more concrete information about expected changes in the various revenue streams. I have much more confidence in his ability to make these calculations than other aspects of running a football club!
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 38 minutes ago
We can speculate (and I have done a bit above in reply to 52) about the relative impacts on United and Dortmund. That's obviously one key variable that will affect willingness to sell and buy. But all things being equal, if there's a lot less money coming into the sport, that will impact the price.
Woodward will have much more concrete information about expected changes in the various revenue streams. I have much more confidence in his ability to make these calculations than other aspects of running a football club!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Very true that last sentence! I think what we’ll see is the more good players and average players and poor players will drop in price. I think the absolute crème de la creme will by and large keep their value due to scarcity, demand and by and large their owners will be reasonably wealthy still.
There are borderline clubs like Aston Villa who if relegated might have to seriosuly rethink the 80m banded around for grealish but Dortmund are valued at what? 800m?
Like you say the chief execs and CFO’s will know best as they have all the information.
What my point on the other thread was simply if we can afford 100m and that is the asking price, then do it. He’s one of the best players in the world in that position which we need to address very badly.
I think the richest clubs will just to try and ride it until until if either normalises back to something resembling what it was, or not it forces them to really cut costs.
PSG, Chelsea, Barca, Bayern and Juve have already made some pretty big transfers. And it’s not just the transfer fees, by all accounts they’re on pretty massive contracts as well.
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The economic tsunami hasn't even arrived
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posted on 2/7/20
We the fans could do more to help if we want big name signings. We all know that Pogba made the £90m we spent on him back by selling shirts, in just one year. Could we not set up our own stands selling Pogba shirts and give the profits to United? Say there are 1bn United fans worldwide. Each sell 100 Pogba shirts and 50 Bruno shirts, and lets say £25 profit on the shirts. That works out as around £375bn.
That is 7500 Sanchos. These are only the daily figures as well. We can afford 7500 Sanchos per day, if we just got up off of our backsides and started selling some shirts like Pogba did.
posted on 2/7/20
Tldr;
pandemic bad
money down
Why use many words when few words do
posted on 2/7/20
Excellent post RR. And raises points many won’t have considered in any great detail.
posted on 2/7/20
It is definitely time us the fans started giving back though. The majority of us have been given some of the best times of our lives by United for FREE. We just sit and watch and don't contribute. Now is the time to give back. I will be donating this month's wage to United. It's not much but I think we all need to be doing something instead of take, take, take, which we have been doing all our lives.
posted on 2/7/20
comment by Benjamin Kallman (U1734)
posted 3 minutes ago
It is definitely time us the fans started giving back though. The majority of us have been given some of the best times of our lives by United for FREE. We just sit and watch and don't contribute. Now is the time to give back. I will be donating this month's wage to United. It's not much but I think we all need to be doing something instead of take, take, take, which we have been doing all our lives.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You mean you don’t watch your free stream dressed in a full kit, Man Utd jacket and tracksuit?
posted on 2/7/20
I bought a retro strip from ebay from the early 90s to make it look like that I was a long term, hardcore supporter. But anyone with a brain cell could probably work out that I wouldn't be wearing an adult's shirt when I was 3 years old, but people are stupid so it is fine.
posted on 2/7/20
comment by Rage of Reaper (U4088)
posted 26 minutes ago
Tldr;
pandemic bad
money down
Why use many words when few words do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, RoR, didn't read that - seemed so short that it was unlikely to say anything of substance.
posted on 2/7/20
Good art RR. As it appears Germany handled the crisis better than, maybe Dortmund won't be struggling as much as us, so don't need to raise money. I'm obviously thinking about Sancho.
posted on 2/7/20
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 3 minutes ago
Good art RR. As it appears Germany handled the crisis better than, maybe Dortmund won't be struggling as much as us, so don't need to raise money. I'm obviously thinking about Sancho.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's possible, 52. On one hand, Dortmund's income is more reliant on the domestic German market (as Bundesliga isn't so big around the world) and, as you said, Germany looks as though it will be among the most unscathed economies. On the other hand, I'd guess Dortmund's TV and sponsorship revenues are lower (absolutely and proportionate to total revenue), so I'd speculate they may be more exposed to drastically reduced gate receipts than United would be.
posted on 2/7/20
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Rage of Reaper (U4088)
posted 26 minutes ago
Tldr;
pandemic bad
money down
Why use many words when few words do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, RoR, didn't read that - seemed so short that it was unlikely to say anything of substance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 2/7/20
UTD will be ok once their pug breeding operation goes full only, not to mentioned the personalised butt pugs that admin 1 is helping with
posted on 2/7/20
fully online*
posted on 2/7/20
Like with most economic disasters, it will affect the less affluent more. In footballing terms other clubs who are almost purely reliant on TV and gate receipts will really feel a huge hit.
I don’t think that spending what we have to to get Sancho in for £100m say, even with the negative effects from corona on our revenues, will look naive at any point. We’re in that fortunate position along with a handful of other fortunate clubs around the world.
If we do not sell anyone and only buy Sancho at that price, isn’t that around 30-40% less than we spent last summer? I think the point that people are making re: Sancho is specific to Sancho alone because he’s such a special talent in a position that we so badly need sorting and have down for years.
For example, if people were backing a proposed new stadium at the cost of around £1bn then I would agree with the article in its entirety.
£100m for Sancho I don’t think will look naive in the wake of the pending economic impact from corona.
If we take out the discussion of Sancho and the figure of £50m or £100m then I don’t understand the concept of your article. That the economic effects have not yet arrived yet, they’re going to be bad so let’s not forget that?
I didn’t think anyone had forgotten that incredibly hard times are coming, for probably every industry.
Or do you want to debate in which areas might be more affected than others?
Sorry if I’m being a little tunnel visioned or ignorant but I’m a little confused.
posted on 2/7/20
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - Ole's joy Manticore (U2958)
posted 13 minutes ago
UTD will be ok once their pug breeding operation goes full only, not to mentioned the personalised butt pugs that admin 1 is helping with
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Pugba £299.99 from the megastore?
posted on 2/7/20
Do you make Paul Pugba a black pug?
posted on 2/7/20
comment by Benjamin Kallman (U1734)
posted 17 minutes ago
Do you make Paul Pugba a black pug?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
😂
posted on 2/7/20
Sat Nav, I'm not making any concrete claims. I suppose my basic points would be:
1) The drop in revenue combined with fairly stable costs could see us making a loss in the next year, even without any transfer dealings.
2) Given the overall reduction in revenue throughout the sport, it's likely that the going rate for transfers and in future salary negotiations will drop broadly in line with the reduced amount of money in the game.
3) I'm in no position to quantify any of these things, just to speculate about the overall dynamics of what impacts on the finances and the market, and how that may differ from before. Therefore, I'm not going to say "Sancho is only worth £50m now" or "we can't afford £100m". However, I don't think it's out of the question that the 50m story we read this week is wide off the mark.
4) Since all big clubs are in the same boat I'm sure we'll still see players moving between clubs. (That said, if there is pressure to reduce wage bills, players and agents might consider this is a good time to sit tight on existing contracts.) When players do move, clubs bound by market realities will have to spend their money based on the financial conditions, which will surely have a deflationary effect.
posted on 2/7/20
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 13 minutes ago
Sat Nav, I'm not making any concrete claims. I suppose my basic points would be:
1) The drop in revenue combined with fairly stable costs could see us making a loss in the next year, even without any transfer dealings.
2) Given the overall reduction in revenue throughout the sport, it's likely that the going rate for transfers and in future salary negotiations will drop broadly in line with the reduced amount of money in the game.
3) I'm in no position to quantify any of these things, just to speculate about the overall dynamics of what impacts on the finances and the market, and how that may differ from before. Therefore, I'm not going to say "Sancho is only worth £50m now" or "we can't afford £100m". However, I don't think it's out of the question that the 50m story we read this week is wide off the mark.
4) Since all big clubs are in the same boat I'm sure we'll still see players moving between clubs. (That said, if there is pressure to reduce wage bills, players and agents might consider this is a good time to sit tight on existing contracts.) When players do move, clubs bound by market realities will have to spend their money based on the financial conditions, which will surely have a deflationary effect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gotcha.
It’ll be interesting to see how it pans out. People thought the same with the housing market in 2009 and again after brexit but looking back now, 2009 was the year to buy!
And to stick with the analogy, if you want that house on Kensington Palace Gardens, then you’re going to have to spend big bucks to get it.
I’m sure they will be a slight correction but I wouldn’t be shocked if in 2-3 years we’re back to paying £50m for the likes of Fred (no slight on Fred he’s done ok).
posted on 2/7/20
The economic impact of Brexit is still to be seen. We're out of the EU now but until the end of the year still able to trade as we were as members, due to the transition agreement. Currently it looks as though we're going to crash out without a comprehensive trade deal, and no one credible believes this will have anything other than a significantly negative effect on the economy.
posted on 2/7/20
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 18 minutes ago
The economic impact of Brexit is still to be seen. We're out of the EU now but until the end of the year still able to trade as we were as members, due to the transition agreement. Currently it looks as though we're going to crash out without a comprehensive trade deal, and no one credible believes this will have anything other than a significantly negative effect on the economy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I should have been more precise, I meant the negative impact of the result of the referendum.
posted on 2/7/20
No one serious was predicting the referendum result would have a massive economic impact (though it has had some in terms of businesses delaying or redirecting investments in the UK). Certainly any such predictions were speculative and very hard to evidence, because they would have been based on expectations about business confidence before anything substantive had changed.
By contrast, the UK government produced its own impact studied about what different Brexit deal outcomes would do to our economy. These indicated a small negative impact in the case of leaving the EU but remaining in the Single Market like Norway; a significant negative impact if we had a hard Brexit along the lines of May's deal; and a severe impact if we ended up trading on (or close to) WHO terms. Those are this country's best guesses, based on the most complete data, interpreted by the government's impartial expert Civil Servants. May's government was reluctant to share this information, and Johnson's is now in the midst of an unprecedented reform of the Civil Service to enforce leadership of departments by political appointees instead of non-partisan advisors.
posted on 2/7/20
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
No one serious was predicting the referendum result would have a massive economic impact (though it has had some in terms of businesses delaying or redirecting investments in the UK). Certainly any such predictions were speculative and very hard to evidence, because they would have been based on expectations about business confidence before anything substantive had changed.
By contrast, the UK government produced its own impact studied about what different Brexit deal outcomes would do to our economy. These indicated a small negative impact in the case of leaving the EU but remaining in the Single Market like Norway; a significant negative impact if we had a hard Brexit along the lines of May's deal; and a severe impact if we ended up trading on (or close to) WHO terms. Those are this country's best guesses, based on the most complete data, interpreted by the government's impartial expert Civil Servants. May's government was reluctant to share this information, and Johnson's is now in the midst of an unprecedented reform of the Civil Service to enforce leadership of departments by political appointees instead of non-partisan advisors.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Speculation has quite an impact. It came down to the simple argument of ‘well Brexit is going to be an economic nightmare so I’ll pay less for your service or product’
It’s same now with Covid, many people’s purchase trends and trades have significantly changed due to the predicted nightmare that is ahead of us.
My point relates to the position of buyer & seller. If Dortmund are completely crippled financially by August say then they’ll have to sell him, it will then come down to demand and so on.
posted on 2/7/20
We can speculate (and I have done a bit above in reply to 52) about the relative impacts on United and Dortmund. That's obviously one key variable that will affect willingness to sell and buy. But all things being equal, if there's a lot less money coming into the sport, that will impact the price.
Woodward will have much more concrete information about expected changes in the various revenue streams. I have much more confidence in his ability to make these calculations than other aspects of running a football club!
posted on 2/7/20
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 38 minutes ago
We can speculate (and I have done a bit above in reply to 52) about the relative impacts on United and Dortmund. That's obviously one key variable that will affect willingness to sell and buy. But all things being equal, if there's a lot less money coming into the sport, that will impact the price.
Woodward will have much more concrete information about expected changes in the various revenue streams. I have much more confidence in his ability to make these calculations than other aspects of running a football club!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Very true that last sentence! I think what we’ll see is the more good players and average players and poor players will drop in price. I think the absolute crème de la creme will by and large keep their value due to scarcity, demand and by and large their owners will be reasonably wealthy still.
There are borderline clubs like Aston Villa who if relegated might have to seriosuly rethink the 80m banded around for grealish but Dortmund are valued at what? 800m?
Like you say the chief execs and CFO’s will know best as they have all the information.
What my point on the other thread was simply if we can afford 100m and that is the asking price, then do it. He’s one of the best players in the world in that position which we need to address very badly.
posted on 2/7/20
I think the richest clubs will just to try and ride it until until if either normalises back to something resembling what it was, or not it forces them to really cut costs.
PSG, Chelsea, Barca, Bayern and Juve have already made some pretty big transfers. And it’s not just the transfer fees, by all accounts they’re on pretty massive contracts as well.
Page 1 of 1