comment by Foxello (U6985)
posted 2 hours, 53 minutes ago
The quote I am referring to is from a post match television interview yesterday where he says "we don't have the resources to compete with Manchester United".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't. What's the issue?
It's all about what happens next...
The strength of our squad is enough to give the Europa a bllody good go. Yeah the CL is all big and mighty, but a couple of hidings from some seeds and you're alsoran!
We've bottled it, yeah! So we're not ready. If we're good enough we will get another go
It's like Forest getting promoted to the PL this year. Do you really think that would be a good idea? (Maybe it would for Derby fans as their record could have been in jeopardy)
But, seriously, come December when Juve or Real come knocking.. we'd get spanked..
I think picking and choosing when you get promoted to the Prem is consolation talk only. Practically, you take it when you can get it and grab it with both hands. Unfortunately I don't think the CL will be much different.
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 32 minutes ago
I think picking and choosing when you get promoted to the Prem is consolation talk only. Practically, you take it when you can get it and grab it with both hands. Unfortunately I don't think the CL will be much different.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutley. So why haven't we?
I'm struggling to respond to this post, not because I can't think of anything to say, more that there is too much buzzing around in my head about the topic.
I'll start by saying that we might be able to challenge for Champions League in the future, the evidence of the last 5 years tells you that - achieved in 2015/16, nearly so last season. Although I understand the thoughts about how the 'big' clubs may well have the top 4 places sewn up for the forseeable future this is not necessarily the case. You've already identified that Mourinho and Spurs will likely have a very messy divorce sooner rather than later. How much longer will Klopp be in charge at Liverpool? How much more of Pep's failure will the Man City owners tolerate? Lampard, Arteta and Solskjær have had reasonable starts as managers but how much more failure will the Chelsea, Arsenal and United owners tolerate?
I'm being deliberately provocative there but any or all of these clubs could see considerable disruption through changes, either in the management or key players leaving/retiring/getting injured. All of this gives opportunities for the rest of the pack to have a good season and get into a European spot.
One thing I am certain about, is that the Europa League should not get prioritised over the League - that is the shortcut to the sack for Brendan.
We have certainly got a challenging beginning to the season having to play in the Europa League, with nobody in the stadium and missing our two best defenders. Hopefully we can overcome this and have a reasonable start so we are not talking about the manager's position in the autumn.
We definitely need to strengthen in the transfer window so it will be interesting to see who may come in, but also whether any of our key players will leave.
Coming here in peace.
From most of the above comments, it appears it is finally dawning on you that the established " top 6 " will continue to dominate the PL.
Yes, you will always get the odd team that comes close for part of a season, but apart from the "haven't they done well" comments, the truth is these teams will not /cannot sustain it over the period required to be part of the elite group.
Given the established order that has been in place for many years, unless you get lucky with a "sugar daddy" coming in who is actually prepared to throw money at the club ( a lot of these owners don't ) the gap is too big. Obviously Chelsea and Man City have done through the money route. Have a look at their position within the football "food chain" before money came their way. Neither clubs were anywhere near the top, or winning trophies on a regular basis like now.City were frequently not in the top division.
And if the gap does start to reduce, the established big teams will do what they need to to push you back down. For example, how confident are you that Chilwell won't go to a "top 6" club next season ?
These are some of the tactics used. Spurs used to be the same. Known as a selling club, and worse still, always to big clubs in the PL, thereby making them bigger and Spurs smaller. EG Keane, Berbatov and Carrick all to Utd. Do you think these transfer, at the time, did not have an element of tactical advantage for Utd ?
Sorry guys, I have nothing against Leicester ( although Lineker can be really irritating when showing his bias ) but you just need to look no further than the current "rich List" figures to see why the current order of things won't change. Simply because these clubs have the financial ability to do whatever it takes to make sure it does not change.
Based on revenue generated in season 18/19, this is the official Statista list:
10th Wolves - £195m
9th Leicester - £200m
8th Everton - £213m
7th West Hasm - £216.4m
6th Arsenal - £445.6m
5th Chelsea - £ 513.1m
4th Spurs - £521,1m
3rd Liverpool - £604.7m
2nd Man C - £610.6m
1st Man U - £711.5m
Note - these figures are for just one year, so how do you think this multiplies over, say a decade. Also look at the obvious gap between 7th and 6th. It is more than double, with the figure going up and up till you get to Utd.
That is why these teams won't let others break in and dilute their profit. I mean, would you ?
For example, just think every time Utd are live on the tv ( and they are, every game ) their figures go higher. Are Leicester live every game ?
And is there anyone to stop this monopoly ?? no of course not. Like them or not, Utd have the biggest fan base in England, probably the world, so if you are, for example a betting company who wants to advertise to as many people as possible, or Sky who want as many paid subscriptions, what better way than
through the best supported team. Hence live every game.
So until Your club increases your wealth, via consistently being a "top team" and get your fan base up to the level of the others, you won't break the top 4. Of the recent clubs joining, it took Spurs, who to be fair did already have the fan base and history, around 10 years of top 6 and last 4 years in CL to bring their income up. City just bought into the group and Chelsea a few years before.
So that is the challenge for Leicester and Wolves.
Oh and sorry for length of article, but not much else to do today.
Good post SteveF which highlights the gulf in fins aces available to the big boys. I guess that’s why we’re even more frustrated that we blew our big chance to disrupt that order.
Especially when all we had to do was beat Bournemouth and draw with Everton after lockdown ðŸ˜
To be fair, I don’t think anyone wasn’t aware of that. But that doesn’t mean you don’t fight against that in an individual season. Any team will fluctuate around its potential for a while and there’s no reason not to hope for the best, for the top 10% in the bell curve.
I do agree though that the club needs to grow its potential before such seasons become sustainable over the longer term. Hopefully the new training ground and planned stadium expansion will help toward that. (As long as there’s a big enough fan base to meet that expansion.)
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Will we get another chance?
Page 2 of 2
posted on 27/7/20
comment by Foxello (U6985)
posted 2 hours, 53 minutes ago
The quote I am referring to is from a post match television interview yesterday where he says "we don't have the resources to compete with Manchester United".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't. What's the issue?
posted on 27/7/20
It's all about what happens next...
The strength of our squad is enough to give the Europa a bllody good go. Yeah the CL is all big and mighty, but a couple of hidings from some seeds and you're alsoran!
We've bottled it, yeah! So we're not ready. If we're good enough we will get another go
posted on 27/7/20
It's like Forest getting promoted to the PL this year. Do you really think that would be a good idea? (Maybe it would for Derby fans as their record could have been in jeopardy)
But, seriously, come December when Juve or Real come knocking.. we'd get spanked..
posted on 27/7/20
I think picking and choosing when you get promoted to the Prem is consolation talk only. Practically, you take it when you can get it and grab it with both hands. Unfortunately I don't think the CL will be much different.
posted on 27/7/20
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 32 minutes ago
I think picking and choosing when you get promoted to the Prem is consolation talk only. Practically, you take it when you can get it and grab it with both hands. Unfortunately I don't think the CL will be much different.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutley. So why haven't we?
posted on 28/7/20
I'm struggling to respond to this post, not because I can't think of anything to say, more that there is too much buzzing around in my head about the topic.
I'll start by saying that we might be able to challenge for Champions League in the future, the evidence of the last 5 years tells you that - achieved in 2015/16, nearly so last season. Although I understand the thoughts about how the 'big' clubs may well have the top 4 places sewn up for the forseeable future this is not necessarily the case. You've already identified that Mourinho and Spurs will likely have a very messy divorce sooner rather than later. How much longer will Klopp be in charge at Liverpool? How much more of Pep's failure will the Man City owners tolerate? Lampard, Arteta and Solskjær have had reasonable starts as managers but how much more failure will the Chelsea, Arsenal and United owners tolerate?
I'm being deliberately provocative there but any or all of these clubs could see considerable disruption through changes, either in the management or key players leaving/retiring/getting injured. All of this gives opportunities for the rest of the pack to have a good season and get into a European spot.
One thing I am certain about, is that the Europa League should not get prioritised over the League - that is the shortcut to the sack for Brendan.
We have certainly got a challenging beginning to the season having to play in the Europa League, with nobody in the stadium and missing our two best defenders. Hopefully we can overcome this and have a reasonable start so we are not talking about the manager's position in the autumn.
We definitely need to strengthen in the transfer window so it will be interesting to see who may come in, but also whether any of our key players will leave.
posted on 28/7/20
Coming here in peace.
From most of the above comments, it appears it is finally dawning on you that the established " top 6 " will continue to dominate the PL.
Yes, you will always get the odd team that comes close for part of a season, but apart from the "haven't they done well" comments, the truth is these teams will not /cannot sustain it over the period required to be part of the elite group.
Given the established order that has been in place for many years, unless you get lucky with a "sugar daddy" coming in who is actually prepared to throw money at the club ( a lot of these owners don't ) the gap is too big. Obviously Chelsea and Man City have done through the money route. Have a look at their position within the football "food chain" before money came their way. Neither clubs were anywhere near the top, or winning trophies on a regular basis like now.City were frequently not in the top division.
And if the gap does start to reduce, the established big teams will do what they need to to push you back down. For example, how confident are you that Chilwell won't go to a "top 6" club next season ?
These are some of the tactics used. Spurs used to be the same. Known as a selling club, and worse still, always to big clubs in the PL, thereby making them bigger and Spurs smaller. EG Keane, Berbatov and Carrick all to Utd. Do you think these transfer, at the time, did not have an element of tactical advantage for Utd ?
Sorry guys, I have nothing against Leicester ( although Lineker can be really irritating when showing his bias ) but you just need to look no further than the current "rich List" figures to see why the current order of things won't change. Simply because these clubs have the financial ability to do whatever it takes to make sure it does not change.
Based on revenue generated in season 18/19, this is the official Statista list:
10th Wolves - £195m
9th Leicester - £200m
8th Everton - £213m
7th West Hasm - £216.4m
6th Arsenal - £445.6m
5th Chelsea - £ 513.1m
4th Spurs - £521,1m
3rd Liverpool - £604.7m
2nd Man C - £610.6m
1st Man U - £711.5m
Note - these figures are for just one year, so how do you think this multiplies over, say a decade. Also look at the obvious gap between 7th and 6th. It is more than double, with the figure going up and up till you get to Utd.
That is why these teams won't let others break in and dilute their profit. I mean, would you ?
For example, just think every time Utd are live on the tv ( and they are, every game ) their figures go higher. Are Leicester live every game ?
And is there anyone to stop this monopoly ?? no of course not. Like them or not, Utd have the biggest fan base in England, probably the world, so if you are, for example a betting company who wants to advertise to as many people as possible, or Sky who want as many paid subscriptions, what better way than
through the best supported team. Hence live every game.
So until Your club increases your wealth, via consistently being a "top team" and get your fan base up to the level of the others, you won't break the top 4. Of the recent clubs joining, it took Spurs, who to be fair did already have the fan base and history, around 10 years of top 6 and last 4 years in CL to bring their income up. City just bought into the group and Chelsea a few years before.
So that is the challenge for Leicester and Wolves.
Oh and sorry for length of article, but not much else to do today.
posted on 28/7/20
Good post SteveF which highlights the gulf in fins aces available to the big boys. I guess that’s why we’re even more frustrated that we blew our big chance to disrupt that order.
Especially when all we had to do was beat Bournemouth and draw with Everton after lockdown ðŸ˜
posted on 28/7/20
To be fair, I don’t think anyone wasn’t aware of that. But that doesn’t mean you don’t fight against that in an individual season. Any team will fluctuate around its potential for a while and there’s no reason not to hope for the best, for the top 10% in the bell curve.
I do agree though that the club needs to grow its potential before such seasons become sustainable over the longer term. Hopefully the new training ground and planned stadium expansion will help toward that. (As long as there’s a big enough fan base to meet that expansion.)
Page 2 of 2