Did you forget about veron? or Kleberson?
comment by ☼ Great_Red_Shark ☼ (U1711)
posted 1 minute ago
Did you forget about veron? or Kleberson?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wow! You're spot on! Juan Sebastian Veron. He's definitely another one who didn't live up to the hype at United but what a talent he was at Lazio
Rafael and the two snakes Tevez and Heinze were decent for us. Romero has been good when called upon and Antonio Valencia I thought was good The rest were either average or awful. The one other than Veron I was most disappointed with was Anderson. I remember when I first watched him for a few games I thought we had a real top player on our hands
Tevez was definitely a success
Fergie mentioned veron could not handle the rigours of The Eng. league. ... veron found the Premiership a bit difficult
How do you guys rate Rodrigo Possebon?
If i had to name a few who did good - mediocre (The best i could manage with South American United players)
Heinze - Not a bad player. But also not real quality. Glad the club denied his wish to move to them lot.
Anderson - sub standard sometimes, but had a few good moments. Liked his bromance with Ronaldo
Valencia - Started to cement his place as a quality winger, until injuries affected his play. Drastically declined. Was never the same after. Also couldn't cope with number 7 pressure.
Rafael - a club favourite. Cemented his place in the starting line up. Played for the club. He had his moments though.
Tevez - probably the most successful or most effective South American that we've had play for us (that i can think of) Didn't stay for that long, but provided some quality moments. And then he knocked on the noisy neighbour's door
Bit harsh on Valencia. He did have a pretty good 12-18 months as I recall as a RB
Maybe i was, but he was nowhere near as good for us as when he played as a winger for us before his big injury.
Anderson was good the first season and then he had his injuries.
Heinze, Tevez, and Valencia can be considered to have varying degrees of success.
Fred at the moment wouldn't be considered a failure.
Romero may be the biggest success out of the lot of them (when you consider that Tevez had a falling out and wasn't as good the second season or that Heinze wanted out to Liverpool, or Valencia's decline).
Falcao came back from a long injury lay off and probably wasn't a good move (something I thought then as well). It was a loan though.
On point with all the others.
comment by ☼ Great_Red_Shark ☼ (U1711)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
How do you guys rate Rodrigo Possebon?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the best central midfield Academy graduates I’ve seen, full stop.
Would put him in the same group as Pogba and Ravel before Pogatetz attacked him.
comment by rosso is done with this (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by ☼ Great_Red_Shark ☼ (U1711)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
How do you guys rate Rodrigo Possebon?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the best central midfield Academy graduates I’ve seen, full stop.
Would put him in the same group as Pogba and Ravel before Pogatetz attacked him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mentally scarred him.
Seba Veron will always be the one that hurt the most.
Quality player. During Pre-Season he set up Ruudboy with a glorious pass and a great finish...
I thought ‘here we go, he looks like he could be settled now...’
We go sell him to fackin’ Chelsea... to say I was distraught was an understatement.
Valencia
Tevez
Rafael
Romero
Heinze
Hernandez
...were/are all fine signings.
- Forlan... I actually thought he was hard done by here some putting him in a slightly separate category of his own. He was very clearly an excellent player and I always felt he should have been kept. He took a while to adapt to the English game and was desperately unlikely not to get off the mark sooner than he did with us. I recall him hitting the post a few times and that 'hasn't scored yet' tag weighing heavy for a while. Quite probably wouldn't have been considered a success with a bit more patience.
- Fred... jury still out but he won't justify his price tag. Will likely be in the category below in time but willing to reserve judgement for another season based on progress this season.
The reality is that:
- Falcao was past his best, largely owing to injury.
- Di Maria didn't really want to be here/was played in strange positions by LvG.
- Veron was actually a lot better in Europe for us and really wasn't as bad as is made out in the PL.
- Kleberson started well, got a bad injury (shoulder?) and never really kicked on. Wasn't good enough.
- Rojo's been ok when he's played. Prone to a clanger but mostly just injured. Reasonable cover when fit.
- Sanchez... Another case of bad timing. Clearly past his best and lost a yard or two of explosiveness.
- Fabio... a stand out performer on our CL run and came out with credit in the bank after that Wembley final defeat to Barca. Injuries ultimately undid his career.
- Anderson... Injury ravaged and really not as good as some considered him to be.
Essentially when you break the list down, the reality is that we've signed players who were past their best, have suffered injuries or simply weren't very good to begin with.
Di Maria & Veron are the standout disappointments given their fees and obvious quality and standing in the game. They were both signed at their peaks but didn't work out for differing reasons.
I think only five of that list of 16 players could be considered to have been "ready made", top quality players when they were signed (Tevez, Sanchez, Veron, Falcao & Di Maria). That means that roughly 2/3's of the South/Central American players we've signed were mostly lower priced punts, some of which turned out to be excellent signings, others less so. And I'd argue 6 out of 16 were definitely successful players for us. That's not too bad at all really. What's not so good is that only 1 (two at a push) of the 5 players from the "top player" category could be argued as being successful for us.
comment by rosso is done with this (U17054)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by ☼ Great_Red_Shark ☼ (U1711)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
How do you guys rate Rodrigo Possebon?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the best central midfield Academy graduates I’ve seen, full stop.
Would put him in the same group as Pogba and Ravel before Pogatetz attacked him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is surely a bit mythical at this point? The Pogatetz tackle only kept him out for a few weeks as I recall, and the trajectory of his career post-United never even hinted of a player capable of playing anywhere close to PL level.
I don't doubt his quality at youth level, but it simply can't be true that he was at Pogba or Ravel's level.
Forlan
Was gutted it didn’t work out for him at United. If he’d have played with the confidence he did in Spain then him and Rooney would have been an incredible pair upfront.
Forlan, Veron, Anderson and Kleberson were all better than they were given credit for.
Heinze, Tevez and Valencia were the real deal and were largely recognised as such.
Romero and Sanchez were 'meh' and overrated before they arrived. Nothing changed after.
Falcao was never going to be the kind of player that could deal with the EPL. And he wasn't
And the twins were obviously just some sort of cosmic piece of satire perpetrated by SAF who wanted to leave a 'dog droppings' kind of problem for whoever replaced him. Quite a good piece of pranking to be fair to him
What Berba said, it’s not necessarily because of their nationality that some didn’t succeed at United but more individual reasons.
Also, I’d say that those who do move to Europe before making the switch the the PL are better suited. I’m pretty sure all the South American’s who have succeeded in the PL have been bought from a European club.
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 8 hours, 38 minutes ago
comment by rosso is done with this (U17054)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by ☼ Great_Red_Shark ☼ (U1711)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
How do you guys rate Rodrigo Possebon?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the best central midfield Academy graduates I’ve seen, full stop.
Would put him in the same group as Pogba and Ravel before Pogatetz attacked him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is surely a bit mythical at this point? The Pogatetz tackle only kept him out for a few weeks as I recall, and the trajectory of his career post-United never even hinted of a player capable of playing anywhere close to PL level.
I don't doubt his quality at youth level, but it simply can't be true that he was at Pogba or Ravel's level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s all a matter of opinion, of course. But by the time that Midds game came around, the lad had his own song.
People who follow the youth sides closely were very, very excited about him, and he was demonstrating on the pitch that day why: Pogatetz went in on him like he did (and make no mistake, it was a horror challenge - maybe the worst I have ever seen live) because he and the Midds midfield couldn’t get the ball off him. It was pure frustration about being given the run around by an 18 year old kid.
As CiC has said, that day changed him. The lad has said it himself. Psychologically, that challenge ended his United career.
comment by StringerBell (U11749)
posted 9 hours, 38 minutes ago
Seba Veron will always be the one that hurt the most.
Quality player. During Pre-Season he set up Ruudboy with a glorious pass and a great finish...
I thought ‘here we go, he looks like he could be settled now...’
We go sell him to fackin’ Chelsea... to say I was distraught was an understatement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember the back heel volley thing he scored in training?
comment by rosso is done with this (U17054)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 8 hours, 38 minutes ago
comment by rosso is done with this (U17054)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by ☼ Great_Red_Shark ☼ (U1711)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
How do you guys rate Rodrigo Possebon?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the best central midfield Academy graduates I’ve seen, full stop.
Would put him in the same group as Pogba and Ravel before Pogatetz attacked him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is surely a bit mythical at this point? The Pogatetz tackle only kept him out for a few weeks as I recall, and the trajectory of his career post-United never even hinted of a player capable of playing anywhere close to PL level.
I don't doubt his quality at youth level, but it simply can't be true that he was at Pogba or Ravel's level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s all a matter of opinion, of course. But by the time that Midds game came around, the lad had his own song.
People who follow the youth sides closely were very, very excited about him, and he was demonstrating on the pitch that day why: Pogatetz went in on him like he did (and make no mistake, it was a horror challenge - maybe the worst I have ever seen live) because he and the Midds midfield couldn’t get the ball off him. It was pure frustration about being given the run around by an 18 year old kid.
As CiC has said, that day changed him. The lad has said it himself. Psychologically, that challenge ended his United career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can’t find any direct quotes where he talks about that tackle impacting him psychologically. The MEN state it, but the quotes from which they summarise this do t actually say anything of the sort.
Just reading about Possebon now - according to Wikipedia he's only played 82 competitive matches in his whole career (just 29 of those were league matches)
comment by Jalisco Red (U4195)
posted 3 minutes ago
Just reading about Possebon now - according to Wikipedia he's only played 82 competitive matches in his whole career (just 29 of those were league matches)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ravel has played 104.
Both incredibly sad stories (although I have much more sympathy for Possebon than Ravel).
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South American Stars at United
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posted on 1/8/20
Did you forget about veron? or Kleberson?
posted on 1/8/20
comment by ☼ Great_Red_Shark ☼ (U1711)
posted 1 minute ago
Did you forget about veron? or Kleberson?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wow! You're spot on! Juan Sebastian Veron. He's definitely another one who didn't live up to the hype at United but what a talent he was at Lazio
posted on 1/8/20
Rafael and the two snakes Tevez and Heinze were decent for us. Romero has been good when called upon and Antonio Valencia I thought was good The rest were either average or awful. The one other than Veron I was most disappointed with was Anderson. I remember when I first watched him for a few games I thought we had a real top player on our hands
posted on 1/8/20
Tevez was definitely a success
posted on 1/8/20
Fergie mentioned veron could not handle the rigours of The Eng. league. ... veron found the Premiership a bit difficult
posted on 1/8/20
How do you guys rate Rodrigo Possebon?
posted on 1/8/20
It’s the Manny weather
posted on 1/8/20
If i had to name a few who did good - mediocre (The best i could manage with South American United players)
Heinze - Not a bad player. But also not real quality. Glad the club denied his wish to move to them lot.
Anderson - sub standard sometimes, but had a few good moments. Liked his bromance with Ronaldo
Valencia - Started to cement his place as a quality winger, until injuries affected his play. Drastically declined. Was never the same after. Also couldn't cope with number 7 pressure.
Rafael - a club favourite. Cemented his place in the starting line up. Played for the club. He had his moments though.
Tevez - probably the most successful or most effective South American that we've had play for us (that i can think of) Didn't stay for that long, but provided some quality moments. And then he knocked on the noisy neighbour's door
posted on 1/8/20
Bit harsh on Valencia. He did have a pretty good 12-18 months as I recall as a RB
posted on 1/8/20
Maybe i was, but he was nowhere near as good for us as when he played as a winger for us before his big injury.
posted on 2/8/20
Anderson was good the first season and then he had his injuries.
Heinze, Tevez, and Valencia can be considered to have varying degrees of success.
Fred at the moment wouldn't be considered a failure.
Romero may be the biggest success out of the lot of them (when you consider that Tevez had a falling out and wasn't as good the second season or that Heinze wanted out to Liverpool, or Valencia's decline).
Falcao came back from a long injury lay off and probably wasn't a good move (something I thought then as well). It was a loan though.
On point with all the others.
posted on 2/8/20
comment by ☼ Great_Red_Shark ☼ (U1711)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
How do you guys rate Rodrigo Possebon?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the best central midfield Academy graduates I’ve seen, full stop.
Would put him in the same group as Pogba and Ravel before Pogatetz attacked him.
posted on 2/8/20
comment by rosso is done with this (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by ☼ Great_Red_Shark ☼ (U1711)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
How do you guys rate Rodrigo Possebon?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the best central midfield Academy graduates I’ve seen, full stop.
Would put him in the same group as Pogba and Ravel before Pogatetz attacked him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mentally scarred him.
posted on 2/8/20
Seba Veron will always be the one that hurt the most.
Quality player. During Pre-Season he set up Ruudboy with a glorious pass and a great finish...
I thought ‘here we go, he looks like he could be settled now...’
We go sell him to fackin’ Chelsea... to say I was distraught was an understatement.
posted on 2/8/20
Valencia
Tevez
Rafael
Romero
Heinze
Hernandez
...were/are all fine signings.
- Forlan... I actually thought he was hard done by here some putting him in a slightly separate category of his own. He was very clearly an excellent player and I always felt he should have been kept. He took a while to adapt to the English game and was desperately unlikely not to get off the mark sooner than he did with us. I recall him hitting the post a few times and that 'hasn't scored yet' tag weighing heavy for a while. Quite probably wouldn't have been considered a success with a bit more patience.
- Fred... jury still out but he won't justify his price tag. Will likely be in the category below in time but willing to reserve judgement for another season based on progress this season.
The reality is that:
- Falcao was past his best, largely owing to injury.
- Di Maria didn't really want to be here/was played in strange positions by LvG.
- Veron was actually a lot better in Europe for us and really wasn't as bad as is made out in the PL.
- Kleberson started well, got a bad injury (shoulder?) and never really kicked on. Wasn't good enough.
- Rojo's been ok when he's played. Prone to a clanger but mostly just injured. Reasonable cover when fit.
- Sanchez... Another case of bad timing. Clearly past his best and lost a yard or two of explosiveness.
- Fabio... a stand out performer on our CL run and came out with credit in the bank after that Wembley final defeat to Barca. Injuries ultimately undid his career.
- Anderson... Injury ravaged and really not as good as some considered him to be.
Essentially when you break the list down, the reality is that we've signed players who were past their best, have suffered injuries or simply weren't very good to begin with.
Di Maria & Veron are the standout disappointments given their fees and obvious quality and standing in the game. They were both signed at their peaks but didn't work out for differing reasons.
I think only five of that list of 16 players could be considered to have been "ready made", top quality players when they were signed (Tevez, Sanchez, Veron, Falcao & Di Maria). That means that roughly 2/3's of the South/Central American players we've signed were mostly lower priced punts, some of which turned out to be excellent signings, others less so. And I'd argue 6 out of 16 were definitely successful players for us. That's not too bad at all really. What's not so good is that only 1 (two at a push) of the 5 players from the "top player" category could be argued as being successful for us.
posted on 2/8/20
comment by rosso is done with this (U17054)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by ☼ Great_Red_Shark ☼ (U1711)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
How do you guys rate Rodrigo Possebon?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the best central midfield Academy graduates I’ve seen, full stop.
Would put him in the same group as Pogba and Ravel before Pogatetz attacked him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is surely a bit mythical at this point? The Pogatetz tackle only kept him out for a few weeks as I recall, and the trajectory of his career post-United never even hinted of a player capable of playing anywhere close to PL level.
I don't doubt his quality at youth level, but it simply can't be true that he was at Pogba or Ravel's level.
posted on 2/8/20
Forlan
Was gutted it didn’t work out for him at United. If he’d have played with the confidence he did in Spain then him and Rooney would have been an incredible pair upfront.
posted on 2/8/20
Forlan, Veron, Anderson and Kleberson were all better than they were given credit for.
Heinze, Tevez and Valencia were the real deal and were largely recognised as such.
Romero and Sanchez were 'meh' and overrated before they arrived. Nothing changed after.
Falcao was never going to be the kind of player that could deal with the EPL. And he wasn't
And the twins were obviously just some sort of cosmic piece of satire perpetrated by SAF who wanted to leave a 'dog droppings' kind of problem for whoever replaced him. Quite a good piece of pranking to be fair to him
posted on 2/8/20
What Berba said, it’s not necessarily because of their nationality that some didn’t succeed at United but more individual reasons.
Also, I’d say that those who do move to Europe before making the switch the the PL are better suited. I’m pretty sure all the South American’s who have succeeded in the PL have been bought from a European club.
posted on 2/8/20
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 8 hours, 38 minutes ago
comment by rosso is done with this (U17054)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by ☼ Great_Red_Shark ☼ (U1711)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
How do you guys rate Rodrigo Possebon?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the best central midfield Academy graduates I’ve seen, full stop.
Would put him in the same group as Pogba and Ravel before Pogatetz attacked him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is surely a bit mythical at this point? The Pogatetz tackle only kept him out for a few weeks as I recall, and the trajectory of his career post-United never even hinted of a player capable of playing anywhere close to PL level.
I don't doubt his quality at youth level, but it simply can't be true that he was at Pogba or Ravel's level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s all a matter of opinion, of course. But by the time that Midds game came around, the lad had his own song.
People who follow the youth sides closely were very, very excited about him, and he was demonstrating on the pitch that day why: Pogatetz went in on him like he did (and make no mistake, it was a horror challenge - maybe the worst I have ever seen live) because he and the Midds midfield couldn’t get the ball off him. It was pure frustration about being given the run around by an 18 year old kid.
As CiC has said, that day changed him. The lad has said it himself. Psychologically, that challenge ended his United career.
posted on 2/8/20
comment by StringerBell (U11749)
posted 9 hours, 38 minutes ago
Seba Veron will always be the one that hurt the most.
Quality player. During Pre-Season he set up Ruudboy with a glorious pass and a great finish...
I thought ‘here we go, he looks like he could be settled now...’
We go sell him to fackin’ Chelsea... to say I was distraught was an understatement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember the back heel volley thing he scored in training?
posted on 2/8/20
comment by rosso is done with this (U17054)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 8 hours, 38 minutes ago
comment by rosso is done with this (U17054)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by ☼ Great_Red_Shark ☼ (U1711)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
How do you guys rate Rodrigo Possebon?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the best central midfield Academy graduates I’ve seen, full stop.
Would put him in the same group as Pogba and Ravel before Pogatetz attacked him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is surely a bit mythical at this point? The Pogatetz tackle only kept him out for a few weeks as I recall, and the trajectory of his career post-United never even hinted of a player capable of playing anywhere close to PL level.
I don't doubt his quality at youth level, but it simply can't be true that he was at Pogba or Ravel's level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s all a matter of opinion, of course. But by the time that Midds game came around, the lad had his own song.
People who follow the youth sides closely were very, very excited about him, and he was demonstrating on the pitch that day why: Pogatetz went in on him like he did (and make no mistake, it was a horror challenge - maybe the worst I have ever seen live) because he and the Midds midfield couldn’t get the ball off him. It was pure frustration about being given the run around by an 18 year old kid.
As CiC has said, that day changed him. The lad has said it himself. Psychologically, that challenge ended his United career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can’t find any direct quotes where he talks about that tackle impacting him psychologically. The MEN state it, but the quotes from which they summarise this do t actually say anything of the sort.
posted on 2/8/20
Just reading about Possebon now - according to Wikipedia he's only played 82 competitive matches in his whole career (just 29 of those were league matches)
posted on 2/8/20
comment by Jalisco Red (U4195)
posted 3 minutes ago
Just reading about Possebon now - according to Wikipedia he's only played 82 competitive matches in his whole career (just 29 of those were league matches)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ravel has played 104.
Both incredibly sad stories (although I have much more sympathy for Possebon than Ravel).
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