If you put 105lbs of pressure on anyone’s neck for long enough, you’ll kill them, full stop.
The neck is the most vulnerable part of the body. More serious injuries occur from neck trauma than any other part of the body.
It takes 4lbs of pressure to block the jugular veins, 11lbs of pressure to block the carotid arteries, and 33lbs pounds of pressure to block the trachea (air flow).
No police officer with three other colleagues present should be kneeling on anybody’s neck, ever, for any reason.
yes but you didn't read the article did you
The study concludes that the double-knee weight was exactly 23.3 kg plus 24% of a specific LEO’s body weight. Some preliminary information indicates Chauvin is 156 lbs, which is a reasonable estimate, as the footage shows him to be thin and of average height. This means Chauvin was exerting 90 lbs in the double-knee position, for 45 lbs exerted spread across the back and the neck (implying balanced force). 45 lbs is definitively insufficient to restrict breathing or blood-flow in the neck. The other officers are of a similar build.
A Minneapolis-based Study
This study conducted at the Minneapolis-based University of Minnesota. The officers were recruited from the Minneapolis police department. The study was conducted last year.
There are 800 LEOs in Minneapolis. The study has 41 participants, meaning 5% of the officers in Minneapolis participated in the study. If you are an officer in the MPD and you spoke to 9 other officers about the use of prone restraint, the probability is that one of you would have been a participant. It’s probable that Chauvin knew about this study. With four officers involved in Floyd’s arrest, there’s roughly a 21% chance that one of them was a participant in the very study.
The conclusions of the study are enough to exonerate the officers from a murder charge:
“Our data do not support the hypothesis of restraint asphyxia.”
“When a cause of death cannot otherwise be determined, positional asphyxia is often suggested […] Proponents of this theory often hypothesize that subjects restrained prone, with applied downward weight force, hobbled, or in maximal restraint (restrained on their stomach with hands and wrists secured to the handcuffs) were unable to breathe because the position caused chest wall and abdominal restriction that prevented adequate expansion of the lungs. Subsequent rigorous scientific studies, however, using sophisticated measurements have debunked the positional or restraint asphyxia hypothesis because the prone position does not produce respiratory compromise.”
“To date, none of the published human clinical studies, or epidemiological studies, support the hypothesis that the pronerestraint position causes or contributes to ventilatory compromise”
“DiMaio and DiMaio observed that acceptance of the concept of positional asphyxia as the cause of death in restraint associated deaths often involves the suspension of common sense and logical thinking. Further, other researchers have commented that positional asphyxia is an interesting theory unsupported by the experimental data. Nor are significant changes in cardiovascular measures found.”
The prosecution is going to have tremendous difficulty proving murder, when Chauvin likely knew of the scientific research indicating that prone restraint is not excessively dangerous to the suspect’s cardiovascular health
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
What kind of riots?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
well lets see
if these facts are indeed accurate, that the officers followed their handbook, the medical assessment backs them up and as such they have no case to answer....
im sure you can work out what the knee jerk reaction mob will do
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 2 minutes ago
What kind of riots?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Raucous.
"Chauvin likely knew of the scientific research indicating that prone restraint is not excessively dangerous to the suspect’s cardiovascular health"
comment by Jim Lahey (U22183)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
What kind of riots?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
well lets see
if these facts are indeed accurate, that the officers followed their handbook, the medical assessment backs them up and as such they have no case to answer....
im sure you can work out what the knee jerk reaction mob will do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hundreds of businesses were ruined by looters and black police officers were killed by looters claiming to be BLM supporters.
Seattle and Portland are good examples of where BLM and antifa take us all.
comment by Benjamin Kallman (U1734)
posted 12 seconds ago
pc gone mad
----------------------------------------------------------------------
First they got rid of slavery, then lynching.
I think fundamentally BLM have a point, its clear in the US that the issue needs to be addressed but if the incident which is the driving force is shown to be nothing more than a drug addict having an overdose and heart attack caused by own his behaviors while police officers followed their training following medical advice it somewhat focuses the light back on as I said earlier, knee jerk reactions that didn't wait for the facts
comment by Christopher - High Priest of The Church of Ndombele (U20930)
posted 7 minutes ago
"Chauvin likely knew of the scientific research indicating that prone restraint is not excessively dangerous to the suspect’s cardiovascular health"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seconded.
“45 lbs is definitively insufficient to restrict breathing or blood-flow in the neck.“
That is also categorically untrue.
There are 800 LEOs in Minneapolis.
—-
Figured there would be more. There’s 423,000 Sagittarius.
Who here can honestly say that someone hasn't knelt on their neck until they are dead? It happens to most of us every day. The only difference is we don't take drugs before hand so we didn't deserve to die.
comment by Jim Lahey (U22183)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
What kind of riots?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
well lets see
if these facts are indeed accurate, that the officers followed their handbook, the medical assessment backs them up and as such they have no case to answer....
im sure you can work out what the knee jerk reaction mob will do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could have used a better expression than knee jerk giving the circumstances
comment by rosso - for your protection, we’ve installed this camera (U17054)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Christopher - High Priest of The Church of Ndombele (U20930)
posted 7 minutes ago
"Chauvin likely knew of the scientific research indicating that prone restraint is not excessively dangerous to the suspect’s cardiovascular health"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seconded.
“45 lbs is definitively insufficient to restrict breathing or blood-flow in the neck.“
That is also categorically untrue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
right so a study by a university should be discredited because you say so, noted
you are thinking of direct pressure on a specific point, the purpose of a double knee restraint is to spread that pressure over a large surface area.
its akin to the pain of standing on a pin, where its focussed on a solitary point in a small area.
a single knee is a far more direct PSI pressure but a double spreads that pressure out over a much larger area.
But again, I would trust the academics on this rather than you tbh
comment by Benjamin Kallman (U1734)
posted 2 minutes ago
Who here can honestly say that someone hasn't knelt on their neck until they are dead? It happens to most of us every day. The only difference is we don't take drugs before hand so we didn't deserve to die.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
except you had a heart attack caused by taking an overdose amount of a drug worse than heroin, were foaming at the mouth and screaming you cant breathe long before you were restrained??
Oh and the medical guidance given to those restraining you is to put you into prone until the medical services arrive?
choice between printing the truth and the legend.....
comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Jim Lahey (U22183)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
What kind of riots?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
well lets see
if these facts are indeed accurate, that the officers followed their handbook, the medical assessment backs them up and as such they have no case to answer....
im sure you can work out what the knee jerk reaction mob will do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could have used a better expression than knee jerk giving the circumstances
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed...went ouch, reading that.
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Jim Lahey (U22183)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
What kind of riots?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
well lets see
if these facts are indeed accurate, that the officers followed their handbook, the medical assessment backs them up and as such they have no case to answer....
im sure you can work out what the knee jerk reaction mob will do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could have used a better expression than knee jerk giving the circumstances
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed...went ouch, reading that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was meaning knee jerk as in all those taking the knee in response to the incident.
Why has this video and information come out now? After so long.
The most recent bodycam footage does seem to show Floyd in an intoxicated, possibly delirious state.
Although I'm not sure how I'd respond to police pointing a gun at me, I'd probably cooperate.
comment by rosso - for your protection, we’ve installed this camera (U17054)
posted 35 minutes ago
If you put 105lbs of pressure on anyone’s neck for long enough, you’ll kill them, full stop.
The neck is the most vulnerable part of the body. More serious injuries occur from neck trauma than any other part of the body.
It takes 4lbs of pressure to block the jugular veins, 11lbs of pressure to block the carotid arteries, and 33lbs pounds of pressure to block the trachea (air flow).
No police officer with three other colleagues present should be kneeling on anybody’s neck, ever, for any reason.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was within their right and training to do so though, that's on the state.
Not defending them, I'd like to think any decent human would see that isn't necessary.
Hmmm interesting. I’ll still wait until the outcome but I do agree that there will be riots and probably just from this leak let alone if he gets off for murder.
The US training & procedures probably does need addressing but at the same time I also feel for the cops over there simply because of the amount of guns on the street.
I think two cops got blasted and killed responding to a domestic a few weeks ago, if you’re their colleagues you’re going to be very fearful with every encounter.
But it’s like that disturbing video we discussed a few weeks back with the white couple in a hotel and the hijab and got blasted to death by the cops all on body cam and the weird part of the procedure was they asked him to raise to his knees and then shuffle/crawl to them rather than just tell him to stay still on the floor with his hands behind his head and not to move a muscle, then approach him. Completely mad making the guy crawl to you on his knees....
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 4 minutes ago
Why has this video and information come out now? After so long.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair I had heard about this a couple of week back, not the actual video but there were reports that he refused to get into the squad car and was already struggling to breathe.
comment by Jim Lahey (U22183)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
What kind of riots?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
well lets see
if these facts are indeed accurate, that the officers followed their handbook, the medical assessment backs them up and as such they have no case to answer....
im sure you can work out what the knee jerk reaction mob will do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So if they followed the handbook and training they had been provided with then there is no case to answer, is there?
The handbook and training should be reviewed but you can’t tell someone this is what you do and this is how you do it and then throw them under the bus when it goes wrong.
Similar case to the officers involved in the shooting in Atlanta after the guy attacked 2 officers, stole one of their taser’s, ran off and then turned and aimed the weapon at them.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 4 minutes ago
The most recent bodycam footage does seem to show Floyd in an intoxicated, possibly delirious state.
Although I'm not sure how I'd respond to police pointing a gun at me, I'd probably cooperate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yes but we’re not as used to guns as they are in the US so they’re more likely to react.
It’s still the wrong thing to do as many black men, celebs etc have said many times it’s: “yes officer, no officer, am I free to go officer?” Hands on the wheel at 10 & 2 and if they do anything illegal to you as a citizen then deal with it after not at the time.
Sign in if you want to comment
Get ready for riots if this is true
Page 1 of 15
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
posted on 4/8/20
If you put 105lbs of pressure on anyone’s neck for long enough, you’ll kill them, full stop.
The neck is the most vulnerable part of the body. More serious injuries occur from neck trauma than any other part of the body.
It takes 4lbs of pressure to block the jugular veins, 11lbs of pressure to block the carotid arteries, and 33lbs pounds of pressure to block the trachea (air flow).
No police officer with three other colleagues present should be kneeling on anybody’s neck, ever, for any reason.
posted on 4/8/20
yes but you didn't read the article did you
The study concludes that the double-knee weight was exactly 23.3 kg plus 24% of a specific LEO’s body weight. Some preliminary information indicates Chauvin is 156 lbs, which is a reasonable estimate, as the footage shows him to be thin and of average height. This means Chauvin was exerting 90 lbs in the double-knee position, for 45 lbs exerted spread across the back and the neck (implying balanced force). 45 lbs is definitively insufficient to restrict breathing or blood-flow in the neck. The other officers are of a similar build.
A Minneapolis-based Study
This study conducted at the Minneapolis-based University of Minnesota. The officers were recruited from the Minneapolis police department. The study was conducted last year.
There are 800 LEOs in Minneapolis. The study has 41 participants, meaning 5% of the officers in Minneapolis participated in the study. If you are an officer in the MPD and you spoke to 9 other officers about the use of prone restraint, the probability is that one of you would have been a participant. It’s probable that Chauvin knew about this study. With four officers involved in Floyd’s arrest, there’s roughly a 21% chance that one of them was a participant in the very study.
The conclusions of the study are enough to exonerate the officers from a murder charge:
“Our data do not support the hypothesis of restraint asphyxia.”
“When a cause of death cannot otherwise be determined, positional asphyxia is often suggested […] Proponents of this theory often hypothesize that subjects restrained prone, with applied downward weight force, hobbled, or in maximal restraint (restrained on their stomach with hands and wrists secured to the handcuffs) were unable to breathe because the position caused chest wall and abdominal restriction that prevented adequate expansion of the lungs. Subsequent rigorous scientific studies, however, using sophisticated measurements have debunked the positional or restraint asphyxia hypothesis because the prone position does not produce respiratory compromise.”
“To date, none of the published human clinical studies, or epidemiological studies, support the hypothesis that the pronerestraint position causes or contributes to ventilatory compromise”
“DiMaio and DiMaio observed that acceptance of the concept of positional asphyxia as the cause of death in restraint associated deaths often involves the suspension of common sense and logical thinking. Further, other researchers have commented that positional asphyxia is an interesting theory unsupported by the experimental data. Nor are significant changes in cardiovascular measures found.”
The prosecution is going to have tremendous difficulty proving murder, when Chauvin likely knew of the scientific research indicating that prone restraint is not excessively dangerous to the suspect’s cardiovascular health
posted on 4/8/20
What kind of riots?
posted on 4/8/20
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
What kind of riots?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
well lets see
if these facts are indeed accurate, that the officers followed their handbook, the medical assessment backs them up and as such they have no case to answer....
im sure you can work out what the knee jerk reaction mob will do
posted on 4/8/20
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 2 minutes ago
What kind of riots?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Raucous.
posted on 4/8/20
"Chauvin likely knew of the scientific research indicating that prone restraint is not excessively dangerous to the suspect’s cardiovascular health"
posted on 4/8/20
pc gone mad
posted on 4/8/20
comment by Jim Lahey (U22183)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
What kind of riots?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
well lets see
if these facts are indeed accurate, that the officers followed their handbook, the medical assessment backs them up and as such they have no case to answer....
im sure you can work out what the knee jerk reaction mob will do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hundreds of businesses were ruined by looters and black police officers were killed by looters claiming to be BLM supporters.
Seattle and Portland are good examples of where BLM and antifa take us all.
posted on 4/8/20
comment by Benjamin Kallman (U1734)
posted 12 seconds ago
pc gone mad
----------------------------------------------------------------------
First they got rid of slavery, then lynching.
posted on 4/8/20
I think fundamentally BLM have a point, its clear in the US that the issue needs to be addressed but if the incident which is the driving force is shown to be nothing more than a drug addict having an overdose and heart attack caused by own his behaviors while police officers followed their training following medical advice it somewhat focuses the light back on as I said earlier, knee jerk reactions that didn't wait for the facts
posted on 4/8/20
comment by Christopher - High Priest of The Church of Ndombele (U20930)
posted 7 minutes ago
"Chauvin likely knew of the scientific research indicating that prone restraint is not excessively dangerous to the suspect’s cardiovascular health"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seconded.
“45 lbs is definitively insufficient to restrict breathing or blood-flow in the neck.“
That is also categorically untrue.
posted on 4/8/20
There are 800 LEOs in Minneapolis.
—-
Figured there would be more. There’s 423,000 Sagittarius.
posted on 4/8/20
Who here can honestly say that someone hasn't knelt on their neck until they are dead? It happens to most of us every day. The only difference is we don't take drugs before hand so we didn't deserve to die.
posted on 4/8/20
comment by Jim Lahey (U22183)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
What kind of riots?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
well lets see
if these facts are indeed accurate, that the officers followed their handbook, the medical assessment backs them up and as such they have no case to answer....
im sure you can work out what the knee jerk reaction mob will do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could have used a better expression than knee jerk giving the circumstances
posted on 4/8/20
comment by rosso - for your protection, we’ve installed this camera (U17054)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Christopher - High Priest of The Church of Ndombele (U20930)
posted 7 minutes ago
"Chauvin likely knew of the scientific research indicating that prone restraint is not excessively dangerous to the suspect’s cardiovascular health"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seconded.
“45 lbs is definitively insufficient to restrict breathing or blood-flow in the neck.“
That is also categorically untrue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
right so a study by a university should be discredited because you say so, noted
you are thinking of direct pressure on a specific point, the purpose of a double knee restraint is to spread that pressure over a large surface area.
its akin to the pain of standing on a pin, where its focussed on a solitary point in a small area.
a single knee is a far more direct PSI pressure but a double spreads that pressure out over a much larger area.
But again, I would trust the academics on this rather than you tbh
posted on 4/8/20
comment by Benjamin Kallman (U1734)
posted 2 minutes ago
Who here can honestly say that someone hasn't knelt on their neck until they are dead? It happens to most of us every day. The only difference is we don't take drugs before hand so we didn't deserve to die.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
except you had a heart attack caused by taking an overdose amount of a drug worse than heroin, were foaming at the mouth and screaming you cant breathe long before you were restrained??
Oh and the medical guidance given to those restraining you is to put you into prone until the medical services arrive?
choice between printing the truth and the legend.....
posted on 4/8/20
comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Jim Lahey (U22183)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
What kind of riots?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
well lets see
if these facts are indeed accurate, that the officers followed their handbook, the medical assessment backs them up and as such they have no case to answer....
im sure you can work out what the knee jerk reaction mob will do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could have used a better expression than knee jerk giving the circumstances
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed...went ouch, reading that.
posted on 4/8/20
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Jim Lahey (U22183)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
What kind of riots?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
well lets see
if these facts are indeed accurate, that the officers followed their handbook, the medical assessment backs them up and as such they have no case to answer....
im sure you can work out what the knee jerk reaction mob will do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could have used a better expression than knee jerk giving the circumstances
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed...went ouch, reading that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was meaning knee jerk as in all those taking the knee in response to the incident.
posted on 4/8/20
Why has this video and information come out now? After so long.
posted on 4/8/20
The most recent bodycam footage does seem to show Floyd in an intoxicated, possibly delirious state.
Although I'm not sure how I'd respond to police pointing a gun at me, I'd probably cooperate.
posted on 4/8/20
comment by rosso - for your protection, we’ve installed this camera (U17054)
posted 35 minutes ago
If you put 105lbs of pressure on anyone’s neck for long enough, you’ll kill them, full stop.
The neck is the most vulnerable part of the body. More serious injuries occur from neck trauma than any other part of the body.
It takes 4lbs of pressure to block the jugular veins, 11lbs of pressure to block the carotid arteries, and 33lbs pounds of pressure to block the trachea (air flow).
No police officer with three other colleagues present should be kneeling on anybody’s neck, ever, for any reason.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was within their right and training to do so though, that's on the state.
Not defending them, I'd like to think any decent human would see that isn't necessary.
posted on 4/8/20
Hmmm interesting. I’ll still wait until the outcome but I do agree that there will be riots and probably just from this leak let alone if he gets off for murder.
The US training & procedures probably does need addressing but at the same time I also feel for the cops over there simply because of the amount of guns on the street.
I think two cops got blasted and killed responding to a domestic a few weeks ago, if you’re their colleagues you’re going to be very fearful with every encounter.
But it’s like that disturbing video we discussed a few weeks back with the white couple in a hotel and the hijab and got blasted to death by the cops all on body cam and the weird part of the procedure was they asked him to raise to his knees and then shuffle/crawl to them rather than just tell him to stay still on the floor with his hands behind his head and not to move a muscle, then approach him. Completely mad making the guy crawl to you on his knees....
posted on 4/8/20
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 4 minutes ago
Why has this video and information come out now? After so long.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair I had heard about this a couple of week back, not the actual video but there were reports that he refused to get into the squad car and was already struggling to breathe.
posted on 4/8/20
comment by Jim Lahey (U22183)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 minute ago
What kind of riots?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
well lets see
if these facts are indeed accurate, that the officers followed their handbook, the medical assessment backs them up and as such they have no case to answer....
im sure you can work out what the knee jerk reaction mob will do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So if they followed the handbook and training they had been provided with then there is no case to answer, is there?
The handbook and training should be reviewed but you can’t tell someone this is what you do and this is how you do it and then throw them under the bus when it goes wrong.
Similar case to the officers involved in the shooting in Atlanta after the guy attacked 2 officers, stole one of their taser’s, ran off and then turned and aimed the weapon at them.
posted on 4/8/20
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 4 minutes ago
The most recent bodycam footage does seem to show Floyd in an intoxicated, possibly delirious state.
Although I'm not sure how I'd respond to police pointing a gun at me, I'd probably cooperate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yes but we’re not as used to guns as they are in the US so they’re more likely to react.
It’s still the wrong thing to do as many black men, celebs etc have said many times it’s: “yes officer, no officer, am I free to go officer?” Hands on the wheel at 10 & 2 and if they do anything illegal to you as a citizen then deal with it after not at the time.
Page 1 of 15
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10