The problem is with the schools, Zico. As expected, they didn't have the balls to assign realistic grades that reflect the school rolling record so have submitted too optimistically so they can point to the big bad SQA as being the culprit for wee Jonny.
If they'd take the AH inputs form schools the pass rate would +10%. That is not fair either.
However, I'm sitting raging a bit too. Lad only 'did' AH Latin. He got an A at higher, passed the AH prelim, school predicted a C upper, he got awarded a D - he didn't need it but WTF?
Daughter got awards higher and lower than expected. Got granted an A1 History whilst her bestie who is way better at it than her got granted a B and she needed the A1 to get into Cambridge. She'd trade if she could as mine was unconditional already.
Shambles.
There was never going to be a perfect system, and it was always going to be criticised. If they had not challenged some of the assertions from the schools, the pass rate would have been through the roof and everyone would have been criticised for that outcome.
My boy’s Nat 5 results were decent enough after some poor prelims, so we’re happy for him. Highers are the more important ones, and he’s done well enough to go ahead with the options he wanted.
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 20 minutes ago
The problem is with the schools, Zico. As expected, they didn't have the balls to assign realistic grades that reflect the school rolling record so have submitted too optimistically so they can point to the big bad SQA as being the culprit for wee Jonny.
If they'd take the AH inputs form schools the pass rate would +10%. That is not fair either.
However, I'm sitting raging a bit too. Lad only 'did' AH Latin. He got an A at higher, passed the AH prelim, school predicted a C upper, he got awarded a D - he didn't need it but WTF?
Daughter got awards higher and lower than expected. Got granted an A1 History whilst her bestie who is way better at it than her got granted a B and she needed the A1 to get into Cambridge. She'd trade if she could as mine was unconditional already.
Shambles.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I am hearing a lot of amended grades. Mrs CS was asked a while back to reduce her grades predicted sue to there being more than they as a school usually. Even then the grades given have been reduced
The media have been spun a beauty of a lie. More grades have been awarded down the way but the SQA have spun it as more passes.
Utter shambles at SQA
'Around 133,000 entries were adjusted from the initial estimates, around a quarter of all entries and 6.9% of those were adjusted up and 93.1% of those were adjusted down with 96% of all adjusted grades changed by one grade'.......(Sky News).
Daughter got decent higher results. Peace & harmony chez Izzy today
Easy to criticise schools but as a teacher I can tell you that there are always kids you think are certain passes who fail and ones you think don't have a chance who somehow pull it out of the bag.
Hmmmmm, thought - it could be just big money making exercise in appeal fees.
Cvnts
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 7 minutes ago
Hmmmmm, thought - it could be just big money making exercise in appeal fees.
Cvnts
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure I read that appeals are free?!
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 7 minutes ago
Hmmmmm, thought - it could be just big money making exercise in appeal fees.
Cvnts
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure I read that appeals are free?!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are this year
The whole thing this year has been a shambles and the SNP have handled it terribly. A complete clusterfeck.
The fact that students are getting judged on the schools performance in previous years, rather than their own performance, is nothing short of a disgrace and completely disadvantages kids from poorer backgrounds.
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 51 minutes ago
Easy to criticise schools but as a teacher I can tell you that there are always kids you think are certain passes who fail and ones you think don't have a chance who somehow pull it out of the bag.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is in itself an argument that exams aren't the best way of evaluating kids at school
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 4 minutes ago
The whole thing this year has been a shambles and the SNP have handled it terribly. A complete clusterfeck.
The fact that students are getting judged on the schools performance in previous years, rather than their own performance, is nothing short of a disgrace and completely disadvantages kids from poorer backgrounds.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That is not true. This year's school's performance is being judged on the performance of previous years, not the individual students. Given that schools typically have an unchanged demographic, staff, students in certain subjects etc. it feels pretty fair.
Of course there will be margins of error, just as there will be for individuals depending on what questions come up or not. It will be more likely that class sooks / disruptive benefit or suffer unduly?
Too tempting for teachers or schools to inflate their stats with no additional effort or at least push the margins?
Too tempting for teachers or schools to inflate their stats with no additional effort or at least push the margins?
---------------------
Alternatively, the fact that they could be accused of doing this would perhaps have meant they made even more sure to apply their best objective judgement?
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 51 minutes ago
Easy to criticise schools but as a teacher I can tell you that there are always kids you think are certain passes who fail and ones you think don't have a chance who somehow pull it out of the bag.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is in itself an argument that exams aren't the best way of evaluating kids at school
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Personally I couldn't agree more with this, Ivan.
I say this as someone who could be considered a poster boy for School exam results not defining their career type.
Having said that, I think that I am more the exception than the rule and if there's evidence to suggest that the SQA have unfairly downgraded awards (through a flawed process) then it's a disgrace knowing just how much can depend on these results (particularly in less advantaged areas).
Silver, I did reasonably well at school despite being in a terribly performing year at a poorly performing school (my year was described as one of the worst years they'd ever had by one of the science teachers).
I'd have been adversely impacted by this decision purely because I happened to be in a poverty area.
I don't think that's fair at all.
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 28 minutes ago
Silver, I did reasonably well at school despite being in a terribly performing year at a poorly performing school (my year was described as one of the worst years they'd ever had by one of the science teachers).
I'd have been adversely impacted by this decision purely because I happened to be in a poverty area.
I don't think that's fair at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you do spam science?
comment by Call Sign: JA606 Liaison Manager (U3627)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 28 minutes ago
Silver, I did reasonably well at school despite being in a terribly performing year at a poorly performing school (my year was described as one of the worst years they'd ever had by one of the science teachers).
I'd have been adversely impacted by this decision purely because I happened to be in a poverty area.
I don't think that's fair at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you do spam science?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
haha Dosser Science.
This article was far too subtle a laugh at Rangers fans decrying Celtic winning this year's title.
FFS GET WAE THE PROGRAM YA ERSHOLES!
Nae wunnar yeez aw flunked the skool
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 42 minutes ago
Silver, I did reasonably well at school despite being in a terribly performing year at a poorly performing school (my year was described as one of the worst years they'd ever had by one of the science teachers).
I'd have been adversely impacted by this decision purely because I happened to be in a poverty area.
I don't think that's fair at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll admit that for very small course class sizes the margins potentially increase which is potentially more frequent at a poorer school.
I don't think it changes the bad luck for any individual whether they are at a good school or bad school. I do think that the potential impact is greater because every grade is a prisoner for the less well performing school's pupils whereas elsewhere it is just the difference between one uni or somewhere else - still devastating for the individual and don't forget there is huge positive discrimination going on at the top institutions if you can get the grades.
In other words, fek knows
comment by Zico - IX (U21900)
posted 7 hours, 6 minutes ago
comment by Call Sign: JA606 Liaison Manager (U3627)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 28 minutes ago
Silver, I did reasonably well at school despite being in a terribly performing year at a poorly performing school (my year was described as one of the worst years they'd ever had by one of the science teachers).
I'd have been adversely impacted by this decision purely because I happened to be in a poverty area.
I don't think that's fair at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you do spam science?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
haha Dosser Science.
This article was far too subtle a laugh at Rangers fans decrying Celtic winning this year's title.
FFS GET WAE THE PROGRAM YA ERSHOLES!
Nae wunnar yeez aw flunked the skool
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think if you had said that this years results would all have an * against them, folk would have understood your sublimity ... or something
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 15 hours, 28 minutes ago
Of course there will be margins of error, just as there will be for individuals depending on what questions come up or not. It will be more likely that class sooks / disruptive benefit or suffer unduly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It remains to be seen whether further down the line (e.g university applications) the same margin of error will be taken into consideration.
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 15 hours, 28 minutes ago
Of course there will be margins of error, just as there will be for individuals depending on what questions come up or not. It will be more likely that class sooks / disruptive benefit or suffer unduly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It remains to be seen whether further down the line (e.g university applications) the same margin of error will be taken into consideration.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well it is all to fook this year anyway. EU acceptances 15% down. Nobody seems to know about the Chinese situation? More spaces for Scots.
Up at 5 today seeing off the lad this morning. Off to the covid capital of the world The visa at the moment allows him one entry. If things don't improve over there not sure when I'll see him back or be allowed in or want to go in to see him? Grim.
Pretty brutal to only hand out passes to the rich kids.
I know you are at the wum Timmy but I can assure that is absolutely not what has happened. All we are hearing from are the folk hard done by but overall the passes are up significantly so who is benefiting? Why are we not hearing about the unexpected passes?
Heard some appalling stories overnight. Lad with mild learning difficulties that had B & Cs at higher now he's been given AAB at AH can't believe his luck whilst boy that has been straight As throughout and wins maths prizes been given a B for maths. Many more.
I'm not a teacher nor have any inside but here's what I think - some schools have maybe played a blinder by allocating better grades to the poorer pupils full in the knowledge that any awards are locked in and the better pupils will have prelims, records of work and history to justify a pass or better grade on appeal. Win win all round and the SQA screwed over? If challenged they just say those better pupils were not working so hard this year after getting good grades previous but might have pulled it out the bag in the end.
Love a conspiracy!
Wonder if the higher pass percentage plugs the gap at universities lacking the international student intake.
They just work their way down the grades until courses are full, Miller. Give not one fook whether the pupils are capable to complete the degree and just need the money. Know students who'd given up on getting into medicine because the grades needed are well known suddenly getting an offer.
Think some unis were adopting the approach of a bum on a seat is better than an empty seat. It is a modern day thing the certificate creep anyway. Back in the day 5xAs got you into anything, anywhere (sounds Rangersy) nowadays you need 6, 7 plus AH or A-levels + extra curricular stuff for the most popular courses and institutions.
Sign in if you want to comment
Exam passes...
Page 1 of 2
posted on 4/8/20
The problem is with the schools, Zico. As expected, they didn't have the balls to assign realistic grades that reflect the school rolling record so have submitted too optimistically so they can point to the big bad SQA as being the culprit for wee Jonny.
If they'd take the AH inputs form schools the pass rate would +10%. That is not fair either.
However, I'm sitting raging a bit too. Lad only 'did' AH Latin. He got an A at higher, passed the AH prelim, school predicted a C upper, he got awarded a D - he didn't need it but WTF?
Daughter got awards higher and lower than expected. Got granted an A1 History whilst her bestie who is way better at it than her got granted a B and she needed the A1 to get into Cambridge. She'd trade if she could as mine was unconditional already.
Shambles.
posted on 4/8/20
There was never going to be a perfect system, and it was always going to be criticised. If they had not challenged some of the assertions from the schools, the pass rate would have been through the roof and everyone would have been criticised for that outcome.
My boy’s Nat 5 results were decent enough after some poor prelims, so we’re happy for him. Highers are the more important ones, and he’s done well enough to go ahead with the options he wanted.
posted on 4/8/20
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 20 minutes ago
The problem is with the schools, Zico. As expected, they didn't have the balls to assign realistic grades that reflect the school rolling record so have submitted too optimistically so they can point to the big bad SQA as being the culprit for wee Jonny.
If they'd take the AH inputs form schools the pass rate would +10%. That is not fair either.
However, I'm sitting raging a bit too. Lad only 'did' AH Latin. He got an A at higher, passed the AH prelim, school predicted a C upper, he got awarded a D - he didn't need it but WTF?
Daughter got awards higher and lower than expected. Got granted an A1 History whilst her bestie who is way better at it than her got granted a B and she needed the A1 to get into Cambridge. She'd trade if she could as mine was unconditional already.
Shambles.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I am hearing a lot of amended grades. Mrs CS was asked a while back to reduce her grades predicted sue to there being more than they as a school usually. Even then the grades given have been reduced
The media have been spun a beauty of a lie. More grades have been awarded down the way but the SQA have spun it as more passes.
Utter shambles at SQA
posted on 4/8/20
'Around 133,000 entries were adjusted from the initial estimates, around a quarter of all entries and 6.9% of those were adjusted up and 93.1% of those were adjusted down with 96% of all adjusted grades changed by one grade'.......(Sky News).
Daughter got decent higher results. Peace & harmony chez Izzy today
posted on 4/8/20
Easy to criticise schools but as a teacher I can tell you that there are always kids you think are certain passes who fail and ones you think don't have a chance who somehow pull it out of the bag.
posted on 4/8/20
Hmmmmm, thought - it could be just big money making exercise in appeal fees.
Cvnts
posted on 4/8/20
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 7 minutes ago
Hmmmmm, thought - it could be just big money making exercise in appeal fees.
Cvnts
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure I read that appeals are free?!
posted on 4/8/20
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 7 minutes ago
Hmmmmm, thought - it could be just big money making exercise in appeal fees.
Cvnts
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure I read that appeals are free?!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are this year
posted on 4/8/20
Huh, what do I know?
posted on 4/8/20
The whole thing this year has been a shambles and the SNP have handled it terribly. A complete clusterfeck.
The fact that students are getting judged on the schools performance in previous years, rather than their own performance, is nothing short of a disgrace and completely disadvantages kids from poorer backgrounds.
posted on 4/8/20
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 51 minutes ago
Easy to criticise schools but as a teacher I can tell you that there are always kids you think are certain passes who fail and ones you think don't have a chance who somehow pull it out of the bag.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is in itself an argument that exams aren't the best way of evaluating kids at school
posted on 4/8/20
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 4 minutes ago
The whole thing this year has been a shambles and the SNP have handled it terribly. A complete clusterfeck.
The fact that students are getting judged on the schools performance in previous years, rather than their own performance, is nothing short of a disgrace and completely disadvantages kids from poorer backgrounds.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That is not true. This year's school's performance is being judged on the performance of previous years, not the individual students. Given that schools typically have an unchanged demographic, staff, students in certain subjects etc. it feels pretty fair.
Of course there will be margins of error, just as there will be for individuals depending on what questions come up or not. It will be more likely that class sooks / disruptive benefit or suffer unduly?
Too tempting for teachers or schools to inflate their stats with no additional effort or at least push the margins?
posted on 4/8/20
Too tempting for teachers or schools to inflate their stats with no additional effort or at least push the margins?
---------------------
Alternatively, the fact that they could be accused of doing this would perhaps have meant they made even more sure to apply their best objective judgement?
posted on 4/8/20
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 51 minutes ago
Easy to criticise schools but as a teacher I can tell you that there are always kids you think are certain passes who fail and ones you think don't have a chance who somehow pull it out of the bag.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is in itself an argument that exams aren't the best way of evaluating kids at school
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Personally I couldn't agree more with this, Ivan.
I say this as someone who could be considered a poster boy for School exam results not defining their career type.
Having said that, I think that I am more the exception than the rule and if there's evidence to suggest that the SQA have unfairly downgraded awards (through a flawed process) then it's a disgrace knowing just how much can depend on these results (particularly in less advantaged areas).
posted on 4/8/20
Silver, I did reasonably well at school despite being in a terribly performing year at a poorly performing school (my year was described as one of the worst years they'd ever had by one of the science teachers).
I'd have been adversely impacted by this decision purely because I happened to be in a poverty area.
I don't think that's fair at all.
posted on 4/8/20
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 28 minutes ago
Silver, I did reasonably well at school despite being in a terribly performing year at a poorly performing school (my year was described as one of the worst years they'd ever had by one of the science teachers).
I'd have been adversely impacted by this decision purely because I happened to be in a poverty area.
I don't think that's fair at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you do spam science?
posted on 4/8/20
comment by Call Sign: JA606 Liaison Manager (U3627)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 28 minutes ago
Silver, I did reasonably well at school despite being in a terribly performing year at a poorly performing school (my year was described as one of the worst years they'd ever had by one of the science teachers).
I'd have been adversely impacted by this decision purely because I happened to be in a poverty area.
I don't think that's fair at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you do spam science?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
haha Dosser Science.
This article was far too subtle a laugh at Rangers fans decrying Celtic winning this year's title.
FFS GET WAE THE PROGRAM YA ERSHOLES!
Nae wunnar yeez aw flunked the skool
posted on 4/8/20
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 42 minutes ago
Silver, I did reasonably well at school despite being in a terribly performing year at a poorly performing school (my year was described as one of the worst years they'd ever had by one of the science teachers).
I'd have been adversely impacted by this decision purely because I happened to be in a poverty area.
I don't think that's fair at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll admit that for very small course class sizes the margins potentially increase which is potentially more frequent at a poorer school.
I don't think it changes the bad luck for any individual whether they are at a good school or bad school. I do think that the potential impact is greater because every grade is a prisoner for the less well performing school's pupils whereas elsewhere it is just the difference between one uni or somewhere else - still devastating for the individual and don't forget there is huge positive discrimination going on at the top institutions if you can get the grades.
In other words, fek knows
posted on 5/8/20
comment by Zico - IX (U21900)
posted 7 hours, 6 minutes ago
comment by Call Sign: JA606 Liaison Manager (U3627)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 28 minutes ago
Silver, I did reasonably well at school despite being in a terribly performing year at a poorly performing school (my year was described as one of the worst years they'd ever had by one of the science teachers).
I'd have been adversely impacted by this decision purely because I happened to be in a poverty area.
I don't think that's fair at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you do spam science?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
haha Dosser Science.
This article was far too subtle a laugh at Rangers fans decrying Celtic winning this year's title.
FFS GET WAE THE PROGRAM YA ERSHOLES!
Nae wunnar yeez aw flunked the skool
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think if you had said that this years results would all have an * against them, folk would have understood your sublimity ... or something
posted on 5/8/20
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 15 hours, 28 minutes ago
Of course there will be margins of error, just as there will be for individuals depending on what questions come up or not. It will be more likely that class sooks / disruptive benefit or suffer unduly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It remains to be seen whether further down the line (e.g university applications) the same margin of error will be taken into consideration.
posted on 5/8/20
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 15 hours, 28 minutes ago
Of course there will be margins of error, just as there will be for individuals depending on what questions come up or not. It will be more likely that class sooks / disruptive benefit or suffer unduly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It remains to be seen whether further down the line (e.g university applications) the same margin of error will be taken into consideration.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well it is all to fook this year anyway. EU acceptances 15% down. Nobody seems to know about the Chinese situation? More spaces for Scots.
Up at 5 today seeing off the lad this morning. Off to the covid capital of the world The visa at the moment allows him one entry. If things don't improve over there not sure when I'll see him back or be allowed in or want to go in to see him? Grim.
posted on 5/8/20
Pretty brutal to only hand out passes to the rich kids.
posted on 5/8/20
I know you are at the wum Timmy but I can assure that is absolutely not what has happened. All we are hearing from are the folk hard done by but overall the passes are up significantly so who is benefiting? Why are we not hearing about the unexpected passes?
Heard some appalling stories overnight. Lad with mild learning difficulties that had B & Cs at higher now he's been given AAB at AH can't believe his luck whilst boy that has been straight As throughout and wins maths prizes been given a B for maths. Many more.
I'm not a teacher nor have any inside but here's what I think - some schools have maybe played a blinder by allocating better grades to the poorer pupils full in the knowledge that any awards are locked in and the better pupils will have prelims, records of work and history to justify a pass or better grade on appeal. Win win all round and the SQA screwed over? If challenged they just say those better pupils were not working so hard this year after getting good grades previous but might have pulled it out the bag in the end.
Love a conspiracy!
posted on 5/8/20
Wonder if the higher pass percentage plugs the gap at universities lacking the international student intake.
posted on 5/8/20
They just work their way down the grades until courses are full, Miller. Give not one fook whether the pupils are capable to complete the degree and just need the money. Know students who'd given up on getting into medicine because the grades needed are well known suddenly getting an offer.
Think some unis were adopting the approach of a bum on a seat is better than an empty seat. It is a modern day thing the certificate creep anyway. Back in the day 5xAs got you into anything, anywhere (sounds Rangersy) nowadays you need 6, 7 plus AH or A-levels + extra curricular stuff for the most popular courses and institutions.
Page 1 of 2