Hmm tough question. Im always an advocate for winning trophies. But the type of climb chelsea and utd have to do to catch city and liverpool is so huge that only getting cl football, cl type signings and cl money will bridge that gap. I guess its a short term v long term argument.
I'm guessing for example, no top 4 but fa cup would dent utds chances of sancho and chelseas chances of havertz
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 2 minutes ago
Hmm tough question. Im always an advocate for winning trophies. But the type of climb chelsea and utd have to do to catch city and liverpool is so huge that only getting cl football, cl type signings and cl money will bridge that gap. I guess its a short term v long term argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with this
Top 4 is the better season in terms of achievement but many fans would prefer the trophy - probably depends on the club.
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 8 seconds ago
I'm guessing for example, no top 4 but fa cup would dent utds chances of sancho and chelseas chances of havertz
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agree with this but think you overstate the gap of the top two. city already lost more games then a few teams behind them.
with the teams coming up being much better than the teams going down imo first place will be more around 85 to 90 points.
In a few years time we will remember our Fa cup but nobody would remember top4 as a success. If you now ask me which season was more successful for Arsenal 15/16 and second place, or 16/17 5th place and Fa cup, I would say 16/17.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 4 minutes ago
Top 4 is the better season in terms of achievement but many fans would prefer the trophy - probably depends on the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yes i would take the trophy because you still get to play in europe.
What would you as an Arsenal fan prefer?
In 10 years time people will remember the cup win not q top 4 finish. On the flip of that though the top 4 finish is what will take a team forward and give them the chance to compete for the biggest prizes on offer.
It might not be right, it might be all thats wrong with football these days but a top 4 finish is far more important than winning the fa cup, even if it wont go down in the history books.
This wasn't such an abstract question a couple of weeks ago. With our first XI running on empty, there were lots of discussions about rotation. The majority of us seemed to be more desperate to get back into the CL, and many advocating playing a second string team in the cup semi-final to keep our players fresh for the crucial league games.
If speaking about 'success' rather than what we want, there's no objective yardstick for comparing the two. (Similarly, who had the better season if one team ran away with their domestic league, while the other failed badly in the league but were crowned champions of Europe?) And does the league performance cease to matter at all in evaluating the season if a cup is won - e.g. are Man Utd's 2016 (FA Cup and 5th), Arsenal's 2020 (FA Cup and 8th) and Wigan's 2013 (FA Cup and relegated) equally successful seasons?
From a commercial perspective top four 100% given revenue etc, (albeit would be severely diminished due to CV19).
However winning a trophy will be fondly remembered by fans for years to come.
I'd say that in 2015-2016 the FA cup was more of an achievement than a top 4 finish. However in 2016-2017, the league cup was more important than the FA Cup and Top 4.
In the 2017-2018 season, the top 4 was way more of an achievement than winning the FA Cup or League Cup.
And again this season the top 4 is more of an achievement than winning the FA cup.
Spurs fans would go for the cup ! but no way would they let Arsenal fans know that !
comment by 5-2 (U10698)
posted 16 minutes ago
In a few years time we will remember our Fa cup but nobody would remember top4 as a success. If you now ask me which season was more successful for Arsenal 15/16 and second place, or 16/17 5th place and Fa cup, I would say 16/17.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True. The 2006 Liverpool team is remembered for winning the FA Cup; not for finishing 3rd.
Another way of framing this question: based on the club's priorities at the start of the season, what constitutes the greater failure - failing to win the FA Cup or failing to get into the CL?
Trophy over a placing any time
FA Cup if you’re a fan.
Top 4 if you’re an owner or chairman.
Top 4 in PGA tour or winning the masters/the open?
Podium for 10 races in a row or winning a grand prix?
I'm being honest here, I get everybody's point, about a long term goal of winning the league and short term sacrifice, but i'd much rather win a trophy.
For our club, it unites us behind the manager, and now we can work on improving the squad and getting into the top 4.
comment by __19*__ (U22043)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by 5-2 (U10698)
posted 16 minutes ago
In a few years time we will remember our Fa cup but nobody would remember top4 as a success. If you now ask me which season was more successful for Arsenal 15/16 and second place, or 16/17 5th place and Fa cup, I would say 16/17.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True. The 2006 Liverpool team is remembered for winning the FA Cup; not for finishing 3rd.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True, although I would suggest that the 2005 teams os even more widely and fondly remembered for winning the CL which wouldn't have been possible if they hadn't got top 4 the season before.
comment by Automatic For The People #BLM (U21889)
posted 3 minutes ago
FA Cup if you’re a fan.
Top 4 if you’re an owner or chairman.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a good point you make mate. Most fans enjoy the feeling and experience of lifting a trophy, it's what matters to them and what they remember more than anything else in football. But I have to say some club owners (eg Daniel Levy) look at the bank balance more than their trophy cabinet, though others like Abramovich are more focused on winning trophies.
Amazing how times change! There used to be a time when winning the cup was a bigger deal than winning the league. Staggering to think that finishing 4th is a better achievement but it probably is. That said, Arsenal, apart from the last few years, have consistently been in the CL for about 20 years but I'm not seeing any particular leap forward you'd expect. Their squad has regressed hugely, despite the cup win and they've never really spent vast sums yet the fans are told the coffers are empty. Just not sure if the revenue advantages of qualifying for the CL are really that big. It seems to me that unless you're in the tiny bracket of teams that win things and pay huge sums on wages, your best players will move on regardless. That means that however much you try and build with the CL money, it will all break up if you're not winning anything. We need to enjoy Harry Kane next season cos if we don't win anything, he's defo gone.
comment by Grand Cannon (U18697)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People #BLM (U21889)
posted 3 minutes ago
FA Cup if you’re a fan.
Top 4 if you’re an owner or chairman.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a good point you make mate. Most fans enjoy the feeling and experience of lifting a trophy, it's what matters to them and what they remember more than anything else in football. But I have to say some club owners (eg Daniel Levy) look at the bank balance more than their trophy cabinet, though others like Abramovich are more focused on winning trophies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For United, I think that this season in particular it was better to get top 4 than win the FA Cup. In general, I'd prefer a cup, but I'd be worried about stagnation if we had another year of Europa!
Winning the trophy is more successful. That is not really a debate.
However as a club you have to look at what is more important in your circumstances.
For our rebuild top four was much more important than winning the FA Cup. Most of our fans on here thought this and so did our manager.
It should also be noted that this d!ck measuring article may be a bit premature as our season isn’t over yet.
Sign in if you want to comment
FA Cup or Top 4?
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posted on 5/8/20
Hmm tough question. Im always an advocate for winning trophies. But the type of climb chelsea and utd have to do to catch city and liverpool is so huge that only getting cl football, cl type signings and cl money will bridge that gap. I guess its a short term v long term argument.
posted on 5/8/20
I'm guessing for example, no top 4 but fa cup would dent utds chances of sancho and chelseas chances of havertz
posted on 5/8/20
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 2 minutes ago
Hmm tough question. Im always an advocate for winning trophies. But the type of climb chelsea and utd have to do to catch city and liverpool is so huge that only getting cl football, cl type signings and cl money will bridge that gap. I guess its a short term v long term argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with this
posted on 5/8/20
Top 4 is the better season in terms of achievement but many fans would prefer the trophy - probably depends on the club.
posted on 5/8/20
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 8 seconds ago
I'm guessing for example, no top 4 but fa cup would dent utds chances of sancho and chelseas chances of havertz
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agree with this but think you overstate the gap of the top two. city already lost more games then a few teams behind them.
with the teams coming up being much better than the teams going down imo first place will be more around 85 to 90 points.
posted on 5/8/20
In a few years time we will remember our Fa cup but nobody would remember top4 as a success. If you now ask me which season was more successful for Arsenal 15/16 and second place, or 16/17 5th place and Fa cup, I would say 16/17.
posted on 5/8/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 4 minutes ago
Top 4 is the better season in terms of achievement but many fans would prefer the trophy - probably depends on the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yes i would take the trophy because you still get to play in europe.
posted on 5/8/20
What would you as an Arsenal fan prefer?
posted on 5/8/20
In 10 years time people will remember the cup win not q top 4 finish. On the flip of that though the top 4 finish is what will take a team forward and give them the chance to compete for the biggest prizes on offer.
It might not be right, it might be all thats wrong with football these days but a top 4 finish is far more important than winning the fa cup, even if it wont go down in the history books.
posted on 5/8/20
This wasn't such an abstract question a couple of weeks ago. With our first XI running on empty, there were lots of discussions about rotation. The majority of us seemed to be more desperate to get back into the CL, and many advocating playing a second string team in the cup semi-final to keep our players fresh for the crucial league games.
If speaking about 'success' rather than what we want, there's no objective yardstick for comparing the two. (Similarly, who had the better season if one team ran away with their domestic league, while the other failed badly in the league but were crowned champions of Europe?) And does the league performance cease to matter at all in evaluating the season if a cup is won - e.g. are Man Utd's 2016 (FA Cup and 5th), Arsenal's 2020 (FA Cup and 8th) and Wigan's 2013 (FA Cup and relegated) equally successful seasons?
posted on 5/8/20
From a commercial perspective top four 100% given revenue etc, (albeit would be severely diminished due to CV19).
However winning a trophy will be fondly remembered by fans for years to come.
posted on 5/8/20
I'd say that in 2015-2016 the FA cup was more of an achievement than a top 4 finish. However in 2016-2017, the league cup was more important than the FA Cup and Top 4.
In the 2017-2018 season, the top 4 was way more of an achievement than winning the FA Cup or League Cup.
And again this season the top 4 is more of an achievement than winning the FA cup.
posted on 5/8/20
Spurs fans would go for the cup ! but no way would they let Arsenal fans know that !
posted on 5/8/20
comment by 5-2 (U10698)
posted 16 minutes ago
In a few years time we will remember our Fa cup but nobody would remember top4 as a success. If you now ask me which season was more successful for Arsenal 15/16 and second place, or 16/17 5th place and Fa cup, I would say 16/17.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True. The 2006 Liverpool team is remembered for winning the FA Cup; not for finishing 3rd.
posted on 5/8/20
Another way of framing this question: based on the club's priorities at the start of the season, what constitutes the greater failure - failing to win the FA Cup or failing to get into the CL?
posted on 5/8/20
Trophy over a placing any time
posted on 5/8/20
FA Cup if you’re a fan.
Top 4 if you’re an owner or chairman.
posted on 5/8/20
Top 4 in PGA tour or winning the masters/the open?
Podium for 10 races in a row or winning a grand prix?
posted on 5/8/20
I'm being honest here, I get everybody's point, about a long term goal of winning the league and short term sacrifice, but i'd much rather win a trophy.
For our club, it unites us behind the manager, and now we can work on improving the squad and getting into the top 4.
posted on 5/8/20
comment by __19*__ (U22043)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by 5-2 (U10698)
posted 16 minutes ago
In a few years time we will remember our Fa cup but nobody would remember top4 as a success. If you now ask me which season was more successful for Arsenal 15/16 and second place, or 16/17 5th place and Fa cup, I would say 16/17.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True. The 2006 Liverpool team is remembered for winning the FA Cup; not for finishing 3rd.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True, although I would suggest that the 2005 teams os even more widely and fondly remembered for winning the CL which wouldn't have been possible if they hadn't got top 4 the season before.
posted on 5/8/20
comment by Automatic For The People #BLM (U21889)
posted 3 minutes ago
FA Cup if you’re a fan.
Top 4 if you’re an owner or chairman.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a good point you make mate. Most fans enjoy the feeling and experience of lifting a trophy, it's what matters to them and what they remember more than anything else in football. But I have to say some club owners (eg Daniel Levy) look at the bank balance more than their trophy cabinet, though others like Abramovich are more focused on winning trophies.
posted on 5/8/20
Amazing how times change! There used to be a time when winning the cup was a bigger deal than winning the league. Staggering to think that finishing 4th is a better achievement but it probably is. That said, Arsenal, apart from the last few years, have consistently been in the CL for about 20 years but I'm not seeing any particular leap forward you'd expect. Their squad has regressed hugely, despite the cup win and they've never really spent vast sums yet the fans are told the coffers are empty. Just not sure if the revenue advantages of qualifying for the CL are really that big. It seems to me that unless you're in the tiny bracket of teams that win things and pay huge sums on wages, your best players will move on regardless. That means that however much you try and build with the CL money, it will all break up if you're not winning anything. We need to enjoy Harry Kane next season cos if we don't win anything, he's defo gone.
posted on 5/8/20
comment by Grand Cannon (U18697)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People #BLM (U21889)
posted 3 minutes ago
FA Cup if you’re a fan.
Top 4 if you’re an owner or chairman.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a good point you make mate. Most fans enjoy the feeling and experience of lifting a trophy, it's what matters to them and what they remember more than anything else in football. But I have to say some club owners (eg Daniel Levy) look at the bank balance more than their trophy cabinet, though others like Abramovich are more focused on winning trophies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 5/8/20
For United, I think that this season in particular it was better to get top 4 than win the FA Cup. In general, I'd prefer a cup, but I'd be worried about stagnation if we had another year of Europa!
posted on 5/8/20
Winning the trophy is more successful. That is not really a debate.
However as a club you have to look at what is more important in your circumstances.
For our rebuild top four was much more important than winning the FA Cup. Most of our fans on here thought this and so did our manager.
It should also be noted that this d!ck measuring article may be a bit premature as our season isn’t over yet.
Page 1 of 12
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