It's really all about what is more enjoyable as a fan. When we won the FA cup I had a great day streaming the match from my room but to make top 4 I enjoyed streaming matches from my room on a more consistent basis due to the slightly higher points average we achieved than in the season we missed out on top 4. This is what football is all about.
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 8 seconds ago
I'm guessing for example, no top 4 but fa cup would dent utds chances of sancho and chelseas chances of havertz
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agree with this but think you overstate the gap of the top two. city already lost more games then a few teams behind them.
with the teams coming up being much better than the teams going down imo first place will be more around 85 to 90 points.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
my point is more in terms that the last two league winners won it with about 100 points. lets say its 90 this year. thats around 25 points chelsea and utd have to make up. the gap for me is huge.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 5 minutes ago
Amazing how times change! There used to be a time when winning the cup was a bigger deal than winning the league. Staggering to think that finishing 4th is a better achievement but it probably is. That said, Arsenal, apart from the last few years, have consistently been in the CL for about 20 years but I'm not seeing any particular leap forward you'd expect. Their squad has regressed hugely, despite the cup win and they've never really spent vast sums yet the fans are told the coffers are empty. Just not sure if the revenue advantages of qualifying for the CL are really that big. It seems to me that unless you're in the tiny bracket of teams that win things and pay huge sums on wages, your best players will move on regardless. That means that however much you try and build with the CL money, it will all break up if you're not winning anything. We need to enjoy Harry Kane next season cos if we don't win anything, he's defo gone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Very true. I think the importance of top 4 has become very exaggerated and overblown. Arsenal's run of two decades of top 4 and non-stop CL football ended with a clear decline resulting in finishing outside top 4. In 2018 United finished second but the following season they dropped to sixth. Leicester won the league in 2016 but battled relegation the next season. And all this despite the huge CL windfalls. These days you don't need a huge warchest to build a winning team (as Leicester demonstrated), you just need to be very smart on the transfer market and have an astute manager.
Grand Cannon (U18697)
Leicester are the exception that proves the rule.
Money is absolutely critical in challenging for the title.
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by __19*__ (U22043)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by 5-2 (U10698)
posted 16 minutes ago
In a few years time we will remember our Fa cup but nobody would remember top4 as a success. If you now ask me which season was more successful for Arsenal 15/16 and second place, or 16/17 5th place and Fa cup, I would say 16/17.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True. The 2006 Liverpool team is remembered for winning the FA Cup; not for finishing 3rd.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True, although I would suggest that the 2005 teams os even more widely and fondly remembered for winning the CL which wouldn't have been possible if they hadn't got top 4 the season before.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is true....but top only 4 gains entry to the CL. The 05 team was remembered for winning the CL, not for qualifying for it the season before. We still had to win it.
the OP forgets utd are still in the Europa.. so in 4 games time it make be an invalid discussion
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must follow ole (U11713)
posted 1 minute ago
the OP forgets utd are still in the Europa.. so in 4 games time it make be an invalid discussion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair, Chelsea are also still in the CL, as unlikely as it is for them to go through.
OP
Winning the FA is definitely better. But finishing 8th is total garbage. Mind the gap fella.
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must follow ole (U11713)
posted 1 minute ago
the OP forgets utd are still in the Europa.. so in 4 games time it make be an invalid discussion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand that. I was assuming IF United don't win the Europa. But you can focus on Arsenal and Chelsea instead.
Chelsea are still in the running as well but let's be honest, I can't see them winning it.
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 1 hour, 15 minutes ago
Hmm tough question. Im always an advocate for winning trophies. But the type of climb chelsea and utd have to do to catch city and liverpool is so huge that only getting cl football, cl type signings and cl money will bridge that gap. I guess its a short term v long term argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When you say the type of climb Chelsea and United have to do to catch Liverpool and City, what exactly do you mean. Only I was under the impression that everybody will be starting on zero points in a few weeks time.
I never quite get why talking about a gap one season equates to the same gap the following season before a ball has been kicked.
Didn`t Chelsea themselves come from like 12th one season, to win the title the following season. Same with Leicester.
I’d generally say a trophy.
I’d never celebrate top 4 like a a trophy but taking all into account this season I wouldn’t swap our 3rd place finish for a trophy this time around.
I think the teams Ole selected for FA Cup versus league games certainly tells you which was more important to the club at United. That's not to say a lot of supporters wouldn't prefer a trophy
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 8 seconds ago
I'm guessing for example, no top 4 but fa cup would dent utds chances of sancho and chelseas chances of havertz
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agree with this but think you overstate the gap of the top two. city already lost more games then a few teams behind them.
with the teams coming up being much better than the teams going down imo first place will be more around 85 to 90 points.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
my point is more in terms that the last two league winners won it with about 100 points. lets say its 90 this year. thats around 25 points chelsea and utd have to make up. the gap for me is huge.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They don`t have to make up 25 points at all. When the league season starts all teams will start on the same points ZERO.
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 7 minutes ago
OP
Winning the FA is definitely better. But finishing 8th is total garbage. Mind the gap fella.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Finishing 6th and no FA Cup is even worse, so sit down old man.
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 minute ago
I’d generally say a trophy.
I’d never celebrate top 4 like a a trophy but taking all into account this season I wouldn’t swap our 3rd place finish for a trophy this time around.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I find that very surprising. Finances are the least of United's worries and you don't need a massive warchest to build a strong team. United have been making bad choices on the market. Bruno Fernandes is imo by far United's best buy since Van Persie, even a better buy than Pogba.
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 1 hour, 15 minutes ago
Hmm tough question. Im always an advocate for winning trophies. But the type of climb chelsea and utd have to do to catch city and liverpool is so huge that only getting cl football, cl type signings and cl money will bridge that gap. I guess its a short term v long term argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When you say the type of climb Chelsea and United have to do to catch Liverpool and City, what exactly do you mean. Only I was under the impression that everybody will be starting on zero points in a few weeks time.
I never quite get why talking about a gap one season equates to the same gap the following season before a ball has been kicked.
Didn`t Chelsea themselves come from like 12th one season, to win the title the following season. Same with Leicester.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite clearly he means Liverpool and City are much better teams.
The season isn't over... UTD and Chelsea could be top 4 and win silverware too (very unlikely for Chelsea though).
As a UTD fan... I hardly cared about the FA semi compared to how the league stood, i'd have happily seen us play with an U18 team. If we want to be back at the top, we need a chance at signing the best players... CL brings that. It's the pragmatic view, but we would mostly all take it.
Depends on the club.
Other clubs have owners with vision and strategy. Not The Arsenal.
Our owner is still content with making the same revenues we were making 5 years ago.
A Top 4 place wouldn't change anything for the club. He just wants to keep the annual player amortization costs steady. Keep the wage bill steady. Keep the annual debt repayments constant. And no one will ask any questions as to why our revenues have also remained pretty much constant since 2015.
He's happy enough just prattling along in 1st gear on the outer lane. Sanctioning ever more short term recruitment decisions to address the financial shortfalls of no longer being a CL club.
As a fan, any trophy is a success under our current ownership.
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 54 seconds ago
I’d generally say a trophy.
I’d never celebrate top 4 like a a trophy but taking all into account this season I wouldn’t swap our 3rd place finish for a trophy this time around.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
maybe so but what you will celebrate is if your team win a league of champions league within the next 3 or 4 years which will be a direct result of that top 4 finish.
We have won the 2 biggest prizes on offer in the last 2 seasons. This has happened as qualification in the seasons prior to them gave us the chance to afford and attract guys like salah, allisson, vvd, fabinho, ox. None of these guys are signing for us without champions league football.
Winning the fa cup goes in the record books. Its great to win the trophy and see the players lift it and all that. But does it move the club forward? Are the big talents across europe now considering arsenal as the main pick because they won the fa cup?
Long term the top 4 finish is far more important. You only have to look at what we have done to see that. None of our success is possible without pipping arsenal on that final day a few season ago.
Guess Pogba and Bruno Fernandes aren't top players
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, OOOOOOHHHHHH YAAAAAAA BEEEUUUTTTYYYYY!!!!!!!!! (U1859)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 54 seconds ago
I’d generally say a trophy.
I’d never celebrate top 4 like a a trophy but taking all into account this season I wouldn’t swap our 3rd place finish for a trophy this time around.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
maybe so but what you will celebrate is if your team win a league of champions league within the next 3 or 4 years which will be a direct result of that top 4 finish.
We have won the 2 biggest prizes on offer in the last 2 seasons. This has happened as qualification in the seasons prior to them gave us the chance to afford and attract guys like salah, allisson, vvd, fabinho, ox. None of these guys are signing for us without champions league football.
Winning the fa cup goes in the record books. Its great to win the trophy and see the players lift it and all that. But does it move the club forward? Are the big talents across europe now considering arsenal as the main pick because they won the fa cup?
Long term the top 4 finish is far more important. You only have to look at what we have done to see that. None of our success is possible without pipping arsenal on that final day a few season ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All very true.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 2 minutes ago
Guess Pogba and Bruno Fernandes aren't top players
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One was a world record signing, the other took 2 transfer windows to get over the line.
If you are out of the CL, you have to offer other incentives, usually financial.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Managing a top club, winning a cup would still get you in trouble with the board. However, securing a CL spot in most cases would guarantee you another season.
Obviously, fans want trophies. Then again, personally, I would prefer to watch play team play in the CL rather than EL.
Sign in if you want to comment
FA Cup or Top 4?
Page 2 of 12
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
posted on 5/8/20
It's really all about what is more enjoyable as a fan. When we won the FA cup I had a great day streaming the match from my room but to make top 4 I enjoyed streaming matches from my room on a more consistent basis due to the slightly higher points average we achieved than in the season we missed out on top 4. This is what football is all about.
posted on 5/8/20
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 8 seconds ago
I'm guessing for example, no top 4 but fa cup would dent utds chances of sancho and chelseas chances of havertz
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agree with this but think you overstate the gap of the top two. city already lost more games then a few teams behind them.
with the teams coming up being much better than the teams going down imo first place will be more around 85 to 90 points.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
my point is more in terms that the last two league winners won it with about 100 points. lets say its 90 this year. thats around 25 points chelsea and utd have to make up. the gap for me is huge.
posted on 5/8/20
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 5 minutes ago
Amazing how times change! There used to be a time when winning the cup was a bigger deal than winning the league. Staggering to think that finishing 4th is a better achievement but it probably is. That said, Arsenal, apart from the last few years, have consistently been in the CL for about 20 years but I'm not seeing any particular leap forward you'd expect. Their squad has regressed hugely, despite the cup win and they've never really spent vast sums yet the fans are told the coffers are empty. Just not sure if the revenue advantages of qualifying for the CL are really that big. It seems to me that unless you're in the tiny bracket of teams that win things and pay huge sums on wages, your best players will move on regardless. That means that however much you try and build with the CL money, it will all break up if you're not winning anything. We need to enjoy Harry Kane next season cos if we don't win anything, he's defo gone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Very true. I think the importance of top 4 has become very exaggerated and overblown. Arsenal's run of two decades of top 4 and non-stop CL football ended with a clear decline resulting in finishing outside top 4. In 2018 United finished second but the following season they dropped to sixth. Leicester won the league in 2016 but battled relegation the next season. And all this despite the huge CL windfalls. These days you don't need a huge warchest to build a winning team (as Leicester demonstrated), you just need to be very smart on the transfer market and have an astute manager.
posted on 5/8/20
Grand Cannon (U18697)
Leicester are the exception that proves the rule.
Money is absolutely critical in challenging for the title.
posted on 5/8/20
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by __19*__ (U22043)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by 5-2 (U10698)
posted 16 minutes ago
In a few years time we will remember our Fa cup but nobody would remember top4 as a success. If you now ask me which season was more successful for Arsenal 15/16 and second place, or 16/17 5th place and Fa cup, I would say 16/17.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True. The 2006 Liverpool team is remembered for winning the FA Cup; not for finishing 3rd.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True, although I would suggest that the 2005 teams os even more widely and fondly remembered for winning the CL which wouldn't have been possible if they hadn't got top 4 the season before.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is true....but top only 4 gains entry to the CL. The 05 team was remembered for winning the CL, not for qualifying for it the season before. We still had to win it.
posted on 5/8/20
the OP forgets utd are still in the Europa.. so in 4 games time it make be an invalid discussion
posted on 5/8/20
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must follow ole (U11713)
posted 1 minute ago
the OP forgets utd are still in the Europa.. so in 4 games time it make be an invalid discussion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair, Chelsea are also still in the CL, as unlikely as it is for them to go through.
posted on 5/8/20
OP
Winning the FA is definitely better. But finishing 8th is total garbage. Mind the gap fella.
posted on 5/8/20
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must follow ole (U11713)
posted 1 minute ago
the OP forgets utd are still in the Europa.. so in 4 games time it make be an invalid discussion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand that. I was assuming IF United don't win the Europa. But you can focus on Arsenal and Chelsea instead.
posted on 5/8/20
Chelsea are still in the running as well but let's be honest, I can't see them winning it.
posted on 5/8/20
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 1 hour, 15 minutes ago
Hmm tough question. Im always an advocate for winning trophies. But the type of climb chelsea and utd have to do to catch city and liverpool is so huge that only getting cl football, cl type signings and cl money will bridge that gap. I guess its a short term v long term argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When you say the type of climb Chelsea and United have to do to catch Liverpool and City, what exactly do you mean. Only I was under the impression that everybody will be starting on zero points in a few weeks time.
I never quite get why talking about a gap one season equates to the same gap the following season before a ball has been kicked.
Didn`t Chelsea themselves come from like 12th one season, to win the title the following season. Same with Leicester.
posted on 5/8/20
I’d generally say a trophy.
I’d never celebrate top 4 like a a trophy but taking all into account this season I wouldn’t swap our 3rd place finish for a trophy this time around.
posted on 5/8/20
I think the teams Ole selected for FA Cup versus league games certainly tells you which was more important to the club at United. That's not to say a lot of supporters wouldn't prefer a trophy
posted on 5/8/20
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 8 seconds ago
I'm guessing for example, no top 4 but fa cup would dent utds chances of sancho and chelseas chances of havertz
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agree with this but think you overstate the gap of the top two. city already lost more games then a few teams behind them.
with the teams coming up being much better than the teams going down imo first place will be more around 85 to 90 points.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
my point is more in terms that the last two league winners won it with about 100 points. lets say its 90 this year. thats around 25 points chelsea and utd have to make up. the gap for me is huge.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They don`t have to make up 25 points at all. When the league season starts all teams will start on the same points ZERO.
posted on 5/8/20
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 7 minutes ago
OP
Winning the FA is definitely better. But finishing 8th is total garbage. Mind the gap fella.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Finishing 6th and no FA Cup is even worse, so sit down old man.
posted on 5/8/20
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 minute ago
I’d generally say a trophy.
I’d never celebrate top 4 like a a trophy but taking all into account this season I wouldn’t swap our 3rd place finish for a trophy this time around.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I find that very surprising. Finances are the least of United's worries and you don't need a massive warchest to build a strong team. United have been making bad choices on the market. Bruno Fernandes is imo by far United's best buy since Van Persie, even a better buy than Pogba.
posted on 5/8/20
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 1 hour, 15 minutes ago
Hmm tough question. Im always an advocate for winning trophies. But the type of climb chelsea and utd have to do to catch city and liverpool is so huge that only getting cl football, cl type signings and cl money will bridge that gap. I guess its a short term v long term argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When you say the type of climb Chelsea and United have to do to catch Liverpool and City, what exactly do you mean. Only I was under the impression that everybody will be starting on zero points in a few weeks time.
I never quite get why talking about a gap one season equates to the same gap the following season before a ball has been kicked.
Didn`t Chelsea themselves come from like 12th one season, to win the title the following season. Same with Leicester.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite clearly he means Liverpool and City are much better teams.
posted on 5/8/20
The season isn't over... UTD and Chelsea could be top 4 and win silverware too (very unlikely for Chelsea though).
As a UTD fan... I hardly cared about the FA semi compared to how the league stood, i'd have happily seen us play with an U18 team. If we want to be back at the top, we need a chance at signing the best players... CL brings that. It's the pragmatic view, but we would mostly all take it.
posted on 5/8/20
Depends on the club.
Other clubs have owners with vision and strategy. Not The Arsenal.
Our owner is still content with making the same revenues we were making 5 years ago.
A Top 4 place wouldn't change anything for the club. He just wants to keep the annual player amortization costs steady. Keep the wage bill steady. Keep the annual debt repayments constant. And no one will ask any questions as to why our revenues have also remained pretty much constant since 2015.
He's happy enough just prattling along in 1st gear on the outer lane. Sanctioning ever more short term recruitment decisions to address the financial shortfalls of no longer being a CL club.
As a fan, any trophy is a success under our current ownership.
posted on 5/8/20
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 54 seconds ago
I’d generally say a trophy.
I’d never celebrate top 4 like a a trophy but taking all into account this season I wouldn’t swap our 3rd place finish for a trophy this time around.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
maybe so but what you will celebrate is if your team win a league of champions league within the next 3 or 4 years which will be a direct result of that top 4 finish.
We have won the 2 biggest prizes on offer in the last 2 seasons. This has happened as qualification in the seasons prior to them gave us the chance to afford and attract guys like salah, allisson, vvd, fabinho, ox. None of these guys are signing for us without champions league football.
Winning the fa cup goes in the record books. Its great to win the trophy and see the players lift it and all that. But does it move the club forward? Are the big talents across europe now considering arsenal as the main pick because they won the fa cup?
Long term the top 4 finish is far more important. You only have to look at what we have done to see that. None of our success is possible without pipping arsenal on that final day a few season ago.
posted on 5/8/20
Guess Pogba and Bruno Fernandes aren't top players
posted on 5/8/20
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, OOOOOOHHHHHH YAAAAAAA BEEEUUUTTTYYYYY!!!!!!!!! (U1859)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 54 seconds ago
I’d generally say a trophy.
I’d never celebrate top 4 like a a trophy but taking all into account this season I wouldn’t swap our 3rd place finish for a trophy this time around.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
maybe so but what you will celebrate is if your team win a league of champions league within the next 3 or 4 years which will be a direct result of that top 4 finish.
We have won the 2 biggest prizes on offer in the last 2 seasons. This has happened as qualification in the seasons prior to them gave us the chance to afford and attract guys like salah, allisson, vvd, fabinho, ox. None of these guys are signing for us without champions league football.
Winning the fa cup goes in the record books. Its great to win the trophy and see the players lift it and all that. But does it move the club forward? Are the big talents across europe now considering arsenal as the main pick because they won the fa cup?
Long term the top 4 finish is far more important. You only have to look at what we have done to see that. None of our success is possible without pipping arsenal on that final day a few season ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All very true.
posted on 5/8/20
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 2 minutes ago
Guess Pogba and Bruno Fernandes aren't top players
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One was a world record signing, the other took 2 transfer windows to get over the line.
If you are out of the CL, you have to offer other incentives, usually financial.
posted on 5/8/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 5/8/20
Managing a top club, winning a cup would still get you in trouble with the board. However, securing a CL spot in most cases would guarantee you another season.
Obviously, fans want trophies. Then again, personally, I would prefer to watch play team play in the CL rather than EL.
Page 2 of 12
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10