comment by Kebablegs (U17699)
posted 6 hours, 27 minutes ago
comment by JonnyLosAngeles (My Dad was made in Leeds) עם ישראל חי (U9756)
posted 8 hours, 48 minutes ago
Harsh on Lasogga and Nketiah.
Both did a job.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eddie didn’t fit the system and was expensive. Scored some useful tap ins which contributed but never understood why we signed him.
Lasogga again very expensive and he wasn’t fit. Again he scored some goals and I liked him but results didn’t improve for the huge outlay
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both scored a number of goals!
Tap ins - you gotta be there to tap in. Goal scorers instinct, very valuable.
Lasogga was fit when he arrived. Debut game versus Burton he was mobile chasing every ball. Towards the end of the season he had a knee injury and was receiving injections to play. Also bulked up on club instructions to be stronger for English football.
What's crap about it?
Roberts has barely scored 10 goals for us
Meslier is just ok, nothing great yet.
Alioski is a fairly good championship player, not exactly a 15 goal a season winger like Harry Wilson was for Derby.
Ben White was superb, but he's not our player, we've made Brighton a 25 million player. Should have spotted him first instead of signing Diaz and Halme. Benhrama deal was excellent, Kev and Eddie weren't.
Not sure that's crap. Orta has signed about 50 players and the best one has returned to his parent club .....
"Roberts has barely scored 10 goals for us"
How many games has he played this season, he has done well and scored some very important goals amongst your so called few!..
"Meslier is just ok, nothing great yet."
Thrown in at the deepest level any keeper his age could have been, not great yet, but nobody thought he would be, he's going to improve and the time he's now had will play a big part to that!..
"Alioski is a fairly good championship player, not exactly a 15 goal a season winger like Harry Wilson was for Derby."
Love it when you bring players from other clubs,(which you do a hell of a lot!)into the against ours argument!..
Aloiski plays for Leeds United and has played as big a part as anyone getting this team to where it is, even without his 15 goals, where are Derby?..
"Ben White was superb, but he's not our player, we've made Brighton a 25 million player. Should have spotted him first instead of signing Diaz and Halme."
Now that's one that baffles me, I wonder what people thought when they were improving one of your favourites for us before he ripped the 3rd div apart, scored a wonder goal at Old traff, and the winner in our last promotion game!..
White has been a sensation, hopefully he sees Leeds as his home, but, saying we should have spotted him before we improved him makes no sense at all, because surely nobody new how he would have turned out and if they did Liverpool and whoever else would have been circling around him!..
We might not have been promoted had he not been a Brighton player!..
"Kev and Eddie"???
Eddie did ok and went back to his club to be kept on, his manager was more than happy with how that went but he didn't fit Bielsa's system!..
And Kev, no fecker here has an idea about what might have been because he didn't for reasons known to all get a chance to prove himself, odd thing about him is, people here blah blah blah and the rest of the crap is!..
The players and coaching staff all said he was excellent in training and thought he would do great in the run in!..
Unlucky for him,(and maybe us!)his chance was ended by another injury!..
You always go on about players from other clubs and use them to bring ours down, ain't we lucky Bielsa came to us, because if he hadn't, this team that are more or less going into their 3rd season together,(some even longer!)are a team that know how Bielsa works and are very good at delivering what he wants!..
We want better players in, so does every team/club in the World, but I think nobody knows more then Bielsa what he wants and I think for the Board to keep him in place will try and do anything he wants doing!..
Most of this team will play Premiership football when we get going again!..
comment by Elsbels - OnOnOn (U21658)
posted 3 hours, 49 minutes ago
I know you said bad not a shocker.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can’t put him in good?
Didn’t play for first team
Didn’t play in the u23 title campaign
Paid out money on wages even if we broke even on any signing fees.
He’s got to slide into bad - harsh maybe?
"Lasogga again very expensive and he wasn’t fit. Again he scored some goals and I liked him but results didn’t improve for the huge outlay"
Hsv were paying the bulk of his wages, so he wasn't as much as some think!..
From Phil Hay's interview with Orta in The Athletic - Orta's own words:
“They criticise recruitment and some of it I can’t explain. Obviously I made mistakes and failed in the first year. But all teams make mistakes. Nobody has 100 per cent in the performance of the players. Normally, the rule is from five signings, three are good, two are bad. Always, in all the clubs. Even with my master, Monchi, at Sevilla. Even he would have two bad, because players are human. They have a lot of things that need to be right for success.
“In some situations, we were right, like with Ben White, who hadn’t played one game in the Championship but now could be one of the best centre-backs in the country. But you need to accept the process and not ask for medals by saying, ‘Look, I signed Ben White’. You need to be measured. So when you fail, try to know why. Don’t ever believe you are the best. Think of it all as part of the process.”
So the benchmark is 3 good, 2 bad.
Anybody think he’s achieved that?
There are players I’d have in different groups but I think kebab has had a good stab at this, but if anyone had the time I think you need to weight them in terms of importance/ outlay ... it’s one thing to punt on u23s and another to get more first team/headline signings wrong.
There’s also a degree of ‘involvement’ involved. Was jansson a good signing? Of course. But he was here on loan with a purchase agreement in place. Klich was linked to Leeds under monk, so was saiz. So you credit him with getting the deal done but not necessarily his scouting network.
He was instrumental in getting us bielsa, which is the biggest and most influential signing we’ve made. In terms of playing staff, personally I don’t think he’s anywhere near his 3 good, 2 bad benchmark. But hey we’re promoted..
If the 3 good 2 bad mark is anything to go by, why is it we've had players come in, even before Orta came that people creamed their PC's over!..
We've had players that people thought were great, but when they arrived they flopped!..
Sometimes good players can improve a team, others they fall apart when they come, maybe that's what Orta means with the "They have a lot of things that need to be right for success."..
Nobody knows until they try something how its going to work out, but like many have said, the players that are now here have done what they were brought in to do, and this 3v2 thing is part of the process that has proved a success!..
We're now where we want to be, Bielsa will say what he wants and Orta will get the best he can for what Bielsa wants, so, if it doesn't work is it because he got the best he could?..
Or Bielsa wanted the wrong players?..
Think on, the better the player the more money, and we want as always the best, it doesn't always work how people want it!..
The things I got from Orta's interview:
Recruitment is a hit and miss process because of the human element, both in assessing players and the players themselves not settling.
He doesn't sit there taking credit for his successes - sounds like he's a good fit for Bielsa.
He's passionate about the club and it's success. That seems to be his primary motivator in his work.
No matter how hard you work at recruitment, it's going to often get you a hot, steaming Weidwald.
Orta admitted to failure in his first season with the club.
Personally, the more I understand his mentality, the more I think he's a good fit for the club. Hopefully he gets a few more Ben Whites than Felixes in this window.
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Victor Orta
Page 2 of 2
posted on 6/8/20
comment by Kebablegs (U17699)
posted 6 hours, 27 minutes ago
comment by JonnyLosAngeles (My Dad was made in Leeds) עם ישראל חי (U9756)
posted 8 hours, 48 minutes ago
Harsh on Lasogga and Nketiah.
Both did a job.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eddie didn’t fit the system and was expensive. Scored some useful tap ins which contributed but never understood why we signed him.
Lasogga again very expensive and he wasn’t fit. Again he scored some goals and I liked him but results didn’t improve for the huge outlay
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both scored a number of goals!
Tap ins - you gotta be there to tap in. Goal scorers instinct, very valuable.
Lasogga was fit when he arrived. Debut game versus Burton he was mobile chasing every ball. Towards the end of the season he had a knee injury and was receiving injections to play. Also bulked up on club instructions to be stronger for English football.
posted on 6/8/20
What's crap about it?
Roberts has barely scored 10 goals for us
Meslier is just ok, nothing great yet.
Alioski is a fairly good championship player, not exactly a 15 goal a season winger like Harry Wilson was for Derby.
Ben White was superb, but he's not our player, we've made Brighton a 25 million player. Should have spotted him first instead of signing Diaz and Halme. Benhrama deal was excellent, Kev and Eddie weren't.
Not sure that's crap. Orta has signed about 50 players and the best one has returned to his parent club .....
"Roberts has barely scored 10 goals for us"
How many games has he played this season, he has done well and scored some very important goals amongst your so called few!..
"Meslier is just ok, nothing great yet."
Thrown in at the deepest level any keeper his age could have been, not great yet, but nobody thought he would be, he's going to improve and the time he's now had will play a big part to that!..
"Alioski is a fairly good championship player, not exactly a 15 goal a season winger like Harry Wilson was for Derby."
Love it when you bring players from other clubs,(which you do a hell of a lot!)into the against ours argument!..
Aloiski plays for Leeds United and has played as big a part as anyone getting this team to where it is, even without his 15 goals, where are Derby?..
"Ben White was superb, but he's not our player, we've made Brighton a 25 million player. Should have spotted him first instead of signing Diaz and Halme."
Now that's one that baffles me, I wonder what people thought when they were improving one of your favourites for us before he ripped the 3rd div apart, scored a wonder goal at Old traff, and the winner in our last promotion game!..
White has been a sensation, hopefully he sees Leeds as his home, but, saying we should have spotted him before we improved him makes no sense at all, because surely nobody new how he would have turned out and if they did Liverpool and whoever else would have been circling around him!..
We might not have been promoted had he not been a Brighton player!..
"Kev and Eddie"???
Eddie did ok and went back to his club to be kept on, his manager was more than happy with how that went but he didn't fit Bielsa's system!..
And Kev, no fecker here has an idea about what might have been because he didn't for reasons known to all get a chance to prove himself, odd thing about him is, people here blah blah blah and the rest of the crap is!..
The players and coaching staff all said he was excellent in training and thought he would do great in the run in!..
Unlucky for him,(and maybe us!)his chance was ended by another injury!..
You always go on about players from other clubs and use them to bring ours down, ain't we lucky Bielsa came to us, because if he hadn't, this team that are more or less going into their 3rd season together,(some even longer!)are a team that know how Bielsa works and are very good at delivering what he wants!..
We want better players in, so does every team/club in the World, but I think nobody knows more then Bielsa what he wants and I think for the Board to keep him in place will try and do anything he wants doing!..
Most of this team will play Premiership football when we get going again!..
posted on 6/8/20
comment by Elsbels - OnOnOn (U21658)
posted 3 hours, 49 minutes ago
I know you said bad not a shocker.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can’t put him in good?
Didn’t play for first team
Didn’t play in the u23 title campaign
Paid out money on wages even if we broke even on any signing fees.
He’s got to slide into bad - harsh maybe?
posted on 6/8/20
"Lasogga again very expensive and he wasn’t fit. Again he scored some goals and I liked him but results didn’t improve for the huge outlay"
Hsv were paying the bulk of his wages, so he wasn't as much as some think!..
posted on 7/8/20
From Phil Hay's interview with Orta in The Athletic - Orta's own words:
“They criticise recruitment and some of it I can’t explain. Obviously I made mistakes and failed in the first year. But all teams make mistakes. Nobody has 100 per cent in the performance of the players. Normally, the rule is from five signings, three are good, two are bad. Always, in all the clubs. Even with my master, Monchi, at Sevilla. Even he would have two bad, because players are human. They have a lot of things that need to be right for success.
“In some situations, we were right, like with Ben White, who hadn’t played one game in the Championship but now could be one of the best centre-backs in the country. But you need to accept the process and not ask for medals by saying, ‘Look, I signed Ben White’. You need to be measured. So when you fail, try to know why. Don’t ever believe you are the best. Think of it all as part of the process.”
posted on 7/8/20
So the benchmark is 3 good, 2 bad.
Anybody think he’s achieved that?
There are players I’d have in different groups but I think kebab has had a good stab at this, but if anyone had the time I think you need to weight them in terms of importance/ outlay ... it’s one thing to punt on u23s and another to get more first team/headline signings wrong.
There’s also a degree of ‘involvement’ involved. Was jansson a good signing? Of course. But he was here on loan with a purchase agreement in place. Klich was linked to Leeds under monk, so was saiz. So you credit him with getting the deal done but not necessarily his scouting network.
He was instrumental in getting us bielsa, which is the biggest and most influential signing we’ve made. In terms of playing staff, personally I don’t think he’s anywhere near his 3 good, 2 bad benchmark. But hey we’re promoted..
posted on 7/8/20
If the 3 good 2 bad mark is anything to go by, why is it we've had players come in, even before Orta came that people creamed their PC's over!..
We've had players that people thought were great, but when they arrived they flopped!..
Sometimes good players can improve a team, others they fall apart when they come, maybe that's what Orta means with the "They have a lot of things that need to be right for success."..
Nobody knows until they try something how its going to work out, but like many have said, the players that are now here have done what they were brought in to do, and this 3v2 thing is part of the process that has proved a success!..
We're now where we want to be, Bielsa will say what he wants and Orta will get the best he can for what Bielsa wants, so, if it doesn't work is it because he got the best he could?..
Or Bielsa wanted the wrong players?..
Think on, the better the player the more money, and we want as always the best, it doesn't always work how people want it!..
posted on 7/8/20
The things I got from Orta's interview:
Recruitment is a hit and miss process because of the human element, both in assessing players and the players themselves not settling.
He doesn't sit there taking credit for his successes - sounds like he's a good fit for Bielsa.
He's passionate about the club and it's success. That seems to be his primary motivator in his work.
No matter how hard you work at recruitment, it's going to often get you a hot, steaming Weidwald.
Orta admitted to failure in his first season with the club.
Personally, the more I understand his mentality, the more I think he's a good fit for the club. Hopefully he gets a few more Ben Whites than Felixes in this window.
Page 2 of 2