comment by Batty (U4664)
posted 31 minutes ago
Not sure you have to waste much energy defending
your OP Lubo. I think your assessments are fine.
But do agree, Orta's celebrations (Derby binoculars)
were passion to the nth in my mind. And MB gets him keys to the city IMO. And as someone said, Orta was
the guy at the helm during our return to Prem.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Surely the whole point of this site is for someone to post & then others take a view on it? The Op is good, Lubo more often is as well. Shouldn’t mean you can’t debate the initial post though surely 👍👍
Nice one Lubo!
Fully understand taking out the youths.
Pretty much come to same conclusion despite one or two differing views on the players
You're quite right Lubo I hadn't thought that was how you had scored it. So it is Orta on 1 so my point that based on your own scoring system he has done OK.
Diaz is in your list yet made one appearance, he is OK but Cibicki isn't, I think Cibicki was awful but so was Diaz. Stevens has made 5 appearances but doesn't make your list but Diaz does.
comment by Elsbels - OnOnOn (U21658)
posted 3 minutes ago
You're quite right Lubo I hadn't thought that was how you had scored it. So it is Orta on 1 so my point that based on your own scoring system he has done OK.
Diaz is in your list yet made one appearance, he is OK but Cibicki isn't, I think Cibicki was awful but so was Diaz. Stevens has made 5 appearances but doesn't make your list but Diaz does.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven't seen enough of Stevens to offer much insight onto him. Have him down as an OK signing just to keep you happy.
I never thought Cibicki was awful. Just decidedly mediocre.
I wasn't sure but I think he's done a great job, a massive plus for Bielsa and a significant proportion of the squad plus players like Poveda, Struijk and Bogusz (all of whom I think have a future) are down to him.
comment by Elsbels - OnOnOn (U21658)
posted 2 minutes ago
Nothing keeps me happy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've noticed
Big bid gone in for White, Liverpool are sniffing about though club, not many going out on loan as club are in checkertrade and are having a go, Orta said anyone not signed by Wednesday won’t start the season, shack signing new contract
My only query with the theory is if you’re excluding u23s, You can’t fairly then include the ones who have made the breakthrough.
The primary issue with all those u23 signings was that it restricted available cash for the first team. A point some flagged at the time and radz acknowledged afterwards. So it had an ongoing impact on club finances, and led to a firesale of them.
With regards to the placements of signings I’m surprised by some. Casilla was awful for the money we paid in salary irrespective of off field issues.
Saiz I think was a very good signing... yes there were flags over his mentality before we signed him but on the pitch he was great before he bunked off. Wouldn’t blame orta for that.
Some of the ‘superb and goods’ are a stretch in my view... some too soon to say, some just a bit high. But the game is all about opinions.
Not sure how much credit orta should get for jansson who was already here... and some of the others including klich were already in the pipeline ( hence why monk tried to hijack the deal).
As I said On the other thread, he was instrumental in getting us bielsa... the most important signing the club has made in 15 years. His player record though? well below the 3 good 2 bad he quotes as the benchmark, in my opinion.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by milkyboy (U12731)
posted 3 minutes ago
My only query with the theory is if you’re excluding u23s, You can’t fairly then include the ones who have made the breakthrough.
The primary issue with all those u23 signings was that it restricted available cash for the first team. A point some flagged at the time and radz acknowledged afterwards. So it had an ongoing impact on club finances, and led to a firesale of them.
With regards to the placements of signings I’m surprised by some. Casilla was awful for the money we paid in salary irrespective of off field issues.
Saiz I think was a very good signing... yes there were flags over his mentality before we signed him but on the pitch he was great before he bunked off. Wouldn’t blame orta for that.
Some of the ‘superb and goods’ are a stretch in my view... some too soon to say, some just a bit high. But the game is all about opinions.
Not sure how much credit orta should get for jansson who was already here... and some of the others including klich were already in the pipeline ( hence why monk tried to hijack the deal).
As I said On the other thread, he was instrumental in getting us bielsa... the most important signing the club has made in 15 years. His player record though? well below the 3 good 2 bad he quotes as the benchmark, in my opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I did have that inward thought regarding the inclusion of the U23s in this list as it was being written. I think a point worth stressing is that the nature of the U23s has changed quite heavily under Bielsa, with being a lot more of a blurred line between it and the senior squad, meaning that people like Struijk have had more of a chance to show their level than people like Amissah or Kroma (think he was a person). This change makes it easier to include newer U23s, and allows me to judge them more fairly.
If a young player steps up into the first team and doesn't cut it then they would be included lower down. There's just been fewer examples of this happening than the other way around recently.
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by AndDonRevieistheKing (U7852)
posted 14 minutes ago
Big bid gone in for White, Liverpool are sniffing about though club, not many going out on loan as club are in checkertrade and are having a go, Orta said anyone not signed by Wednesday won’t start the season, shack signing new contract
----------------------------------------------------------------------
checkertrade ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The new name for the Johnstone's Paint Trophy I think.
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 4 hours, 40 minutes ago
comment by Mattyp (U8926)
posted 1 minute ago
Dont get how izzy brown can be classed as an okay signing.
The club knew he was injured when he signed and that resulted in him being nowhere near a good signing.
Edmondson couldnt get anywhere near to the first team despite us having only one striker and has been shipped off to a pub league while we desperately search for a new striker - he has zero future at this club... but is somehow good?
Also did I miss something about Halme, in what way was hw okay?
Baker was recalled cause he couldnt get game time but somehow is also an ok signing? I do t get that at all
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For me Brown was always a high risk high reward acquisition. He didn't work out, but not because of Orta. We just couldn't get him fit enough.
Edmondson was brought in to contribute to the U23s, which he has done well, being key to the success they enjoyed under Corberan. He's got a good loan now, and, by the sound of it, will be signing a new contract in the coming weeks.
Halme did alright, and we got a profit on his signing.
Baker is a player who people slag off as a terrible signing. Actually thought he did alright whenever I watched him play. Pretty mediocre player, but not a terrible one, in my eyes at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But by that logic we made money in Ideguchi so you should count him as good
Cal- checkertrade is that cup with u21s from PL and Div1 & 2 teams, think it was a brainchild of Harvey’s still might draw Harrogate Town
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Elsbels - OnOnOn (U21658)
posted 2 minutes ago
Nothing keeps me happy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've noticed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not true, watching the boys win does. I hope I'm not a right miserable kant next year
I will say it again - Patrick's overall contribution this season has been immense.
But we'll done Lubo for responding in such a constructive manner.
I know I'm one that people don't take notice of and to tell the truth I'm use to it, but, as always, I'll say what I have to say and people can ignore all they want!..
I truly hope that Leeds are forced to take Augustin on, he's getting grief from people around here that know nothing about him, glad the coaching staff and players think he's from what they've seen good!..
And I said on the other thread, but I've said it a few times, Hsv paid the biggest chunk of Lasogga's wages, so he wasn't as dear as people make out!..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know plenty about Augustin, and think prime him would be great, was excited by the signing. Unfortunately for him it hasn't worked out, and he appears to be unable to get past his injuries right now. With a different manager this may be able to be accomodated, but with Bielsa I just don't see him being able to get to the right levels on his fitness regime."
Sorry Lubo, my Son is over from England with his Wife and Kids, as I was writing what I wrote my Daughter rang to say She and her Boyfriend were on the way to pick me up to go see them, I pressed send and then rushed to get ready!..
Before I read your reply I'd turned my Laptop of and was on my way!..
Had a good time and on getting back went to the pub and if I hadn't forgotten my Facemask I'd still be out!..
So just got back!..
But like I said, I hope Leeds are forced to take Augustin just so he can show one way or the other if he could do what's wanted of him, his injury, that may have just been bad luck and he just might be as good as people around him said he is!..
Roberts is another always injured but he's done brilliant the last number of games!..
I think there are some players,many of them very good, where with the best will in the world their bodies cannot sustain Bielsa' s demands and non-negotiables in terms of fitness body fat and the intensity of training.
I think Forshaw is one, and I fear JKA is another.They are good players but for whatever reason physically it is not going to work for them.
I don't think we will see JKA in a Leeds shirt again while Bielsa is at the helm. Remarkably that includes even if we have to pay Leipzig the full fee. Bielsa's framework and the way he wants things done are fundamental and whilst we will take a big hit on this we are in the premiership now and the bigger picture that comes with that.
I feel for JKA in many ways and hope things work for him.
Sign in if you want to comment
Victor Orta by Lubo
Page 2 of 2
posted on 7/8/20
comment by Batty (U4664)
posted 31 minutes ago
Not sure you have to waste much energy defending
your OP Lubo. I think your assessments are fine.
But do agree, Orta's celebrations (Derby binoculars)
were passion to the nth in my mind. And MB gets him keys to the city IMO. And as someone said, Orta was
the guy at the helm during our return to Prem.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Surely the whole point of this site is for someone to post & then others take a view on it? The Op is good, Lubo more often is as well. Shouldn’t mean you can’t debate the initial post though surely 👍👍
posted on 7/8/20
Nice one Lubo!
Fully understand taking out the youths.
Pretty much come to same conclusion despite one or two differing views on the players
posted on 7/8/20
You're quite right Lubo I hadn't thought that was how you had scored it. So it is Orta on 1 so my point that based on your own scoring system he has done OK.
Diaz is in your list yet made one appearance, he is OK but Cibicki isn't, I think Cibicki was awful but so was Diaz. Stevens has made 5 appearances but doesn't make your list but Diaz does.
posted on 7/8/20
Not OK, good.
posted on 7/8/20
comment by Elsbels - OnOnOn (U21658)
posted 3 minutes ago
You're quite right Lubo I hadn't thought that was how you had scored it. So it is Orta on 1 so my point that based on your own scoring system he has done OK.
Diaz is in your list yet made one appearance, he is OK but Cibicki isn't, I think Cibicki was awful but so was Diaz. Stevens has made 5 appearances but doesn't make your list but Diaz does.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven't seen enough of Stevens to offer much insight onto him. Have him down as an OK signing just to keep you happy.
I never thought Cibicki was awful. Just decidedly mediocre.
posted on 7/8/20
I wasn't sure but I think he's done a great job, a massive plus for Bielsa and a significant proportion of the squad plus players like Poveda, Struijk and Bogusz (all of whom I think have a future) are down to him.
posted on 7/8/20
Nothing keeps me happy
posted on 7/8/20
comment by Elsbels - OnOnOn (U21658)
posted 2 minutes ago
Nothing keeps me happy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've noticed
posted on 7/8/20
Big bid gone in for White, Liverpool are sniffing about though club, not many going out on loan as club are in checkertrade and are having a go, Orta said anyone not signed by Wednesday won’t start the season, shack signing new contract
posted on 7/8/20
My only query with the theory is if you’re excluding u23s, You can’t fairly then include the ones who have made the breakthrough.
The primary issue with all those u23 signings was that it restricted available cash for the first team. A point some flagged at the time and radz acknowledged afterwards. So it had an ongoing impact on club finances, and led to a firesale of them.
With regards to the placements of signings I’m surprised by some. Casilla was awful for the money we paid in salary irrespective of off field issues.
Saiz I think was a very good signing... yes there were flags over his mentality before we signed him but on the pitch he was great before he bunked off. Wouldn’t blame orta for that.
Some of the ‘superb and goods’ are a stretch in my view... some too soon to say, some just a bit high. But the game is all about opinions.
Not sure how much credit orta should get for jansson who was already here... and some of the others including klich were already in the pipeline ( hence why monk tried to hijack the deal).
As I said On the other thread, he was instrumental in getting us bielsa... the most important signing the club has made in 15 years. His player record though? well below the 3 good 2 bad he quotes as the benchmark, in my opinion.
posted on 7/8/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 7/8/20
comment by milkyboy (U12731)
posted 3 minutes ago
My only query with the theory is if you’re excluding u23s, You can’t fairly then include the ones who have made the breakthrough.
The primary issue with all those u23 signings was that it restricted available cash for the first team. A point some flagged at the time and radz acknowledged afterwards. So it had an ongoing impact on club finances, and led to a firesale of them.
With regards to the placements of signings I’m surprised by some. Casilla was awful for the money we paid in salary irrespective of off field issues.
Saiz I think was a very good signing... yes there were flags over his mentality before we signed him but on the pitch he was great before he bunked off. Wouldn’t blame orta for that.
Some of the ‘superb and goods’ are a stretch in my view... some too soon to say, some just a bit high. But the game is all about opinions.
Not sure how much credit orta should get for jansson who was already here... and some of the others including klich were already in the pipeline ( hence why monk tried to hijack the deal).
As I said On the other thread, he was instrumental in getting us bielsa... the most important signing the club has made in 15 years. His player record though? well below the 3 good 2 bad he quotes as the benchmark, in my opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I did have that inward thought regarding the inclusion of the U23s in this list as it was being written. I think a point worth stressing is that the nature of the U23s has changed quite heavily under Bielsa, with being a lot more of a blurred line between it and the senior squad, meaning that people like Struijk have had more of a chance to show their level than people like Amissah or Kroma (think he was a person). This change makes it easier to include newer U23s, and allows me to judge them more fairly.
If a young player steps up into the first team and doesn't cut it then they would be included lower down. There's just been fewer examples of this happening than the other way around recently.
posted on 7/8/20
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by AndDonRevieistheKing (U7852)
posted 14 minutes ago
Big bid gone in for White, Liverpool are sniffing about though club, not many going out on loan as club are in checkertrade and are having a go, Orta said anyone not signed by Wednesday won’t start the season, shack signing new contract
----------------------------------------------------------------------
checkertrade ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The new name for the Johnstone's Paint Trophy I think.
posted on 7/8/20
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 4 hours, 40 minutes ago
comment by Mattyp (U8926)
posted 1 minute ago
Dont get how izzy brown can be classed as an okay signing.
The club knew he was injured when he signed and that resulted in him being nowhere near a good signing.
Edmondson couldnt get anywhere near to the first team despite us having only one striker and has been shipped off to a pub league while we desperately search for a new striker - he has zero future at this club... but is somehow good?
Also did I miss something about Halme, in what way was hw okay?
Baker was recalled cause he couldnt get game time but somehow is also an ok signing? I do t get that at all
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For me Brown was always a high risk high reward acquisition. He didn't work out, but not because of Orta. We just couldn't get him fit enough.
Edmondson was brought in to contribute to the U23s, which he has done well, being key to the success they enjoyed under Corberan. He's got a good loan now, and, by the sound of it, will be signing a new contract in the coming weeks.
Halme did alright, and we got a profit on his signing.
Baker is a player who people slag off as a terrible signing. Actually thought he did alright whenever I watched him play. Pretty mediocre player, but not a terrible one, in my eyes at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But by that logic we made money in Ideguchi so you should count him as good
posted on 7/8/20
Cal- checkertrade is that cup with u21s from PL and Div1 & 2 teams, think it was a brainchild of Harvey’s still might draw Harrogate Town
posted on 7/8/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 7/8/20
comment by Elsbels - OnOnOn (U21658)
posted 2 minutes ago
Nothing keeps me happy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've noticed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not true, watching the boys win does. I hope I'm not a right miserable kant next year
posted on 7/8/20
I will say it again - Patrick's overall contribution this season has been immense.
But we'll done Lubo for responding in such a constructive manner.
posted on 8/8/20
I know I'm one that people don't take notice of and to tell the truth I'm use to it, but, as always, I'll say what I have to say and people can ignore all they want!..
I truly hope that Leeds are forced to take Augustin on, he's getting grief from people around here that know nothing about him, glad the coaching staff and players think he's from what they've seen good!..
And I said on the other thread, but I've said it a few times, Hsv paid the biggest chunk of Lasogga's wages, so he wasn't as dear as people make out!..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know plenty about Augustin, and think prime him would be great, was excited by the signing. Unfortunately for him it hasn't worked out, and he appears to be unable to get past his injuries right now. With a different manager this may be able to be accomodated, but with Bielsa I just don't see him being able to get to the right levels on his fitness regime."
Sorry Lubo, my Son is over from England with his Wife and Kids, as I was writing what I wrote my Daughter rang to say She and her Boyfriend were on the way to pick me up to go see them, I pressed send and then rushed to get ready!..
Before I read your reply I'd turned my Laptop of and was on my way!..
Had a good time and on getting back went to the pub and if I hadn't forgotten my Facemask I'd still be out!..
So just got back!..
But like I said, I hope Leeds are forced to take Augustin just so he can show one way or the other if he could do what's wanted of him, his injury, that may have just been bad luck and he just might be as good as people around him said he is!..
Roberts is another always injured but he's done brilliant the last number of games!..
posted on 8/8/20
I think there are some players,many of them very good, where with the best will in the world their bodies cannot sustain Bielsa' s demands and non-negotiables in terms of fitness body fat and the intensity of training.
I think Forshaw is one, and I fear JKA is another.They are good players but for whatever reason physically it is not going to work for them.
I don't think we will see JKA in a Leeds shirt again while Bielsa is at the helm. Remarkably that includes even if we have to pay Leipzig the full fee. Bielsa's framework and the way he wants things done are fundamental and whilst we will take a big hit on this we are in the premiership now and the bigger picture that comes with that.
I feel for JKA in many ways and hope things work for him.
Page 2 of 2