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Truncated pre-seasons

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posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)

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It’s traditionally seen as the first game of the season isn’t it?
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from the FA's point of view, yes; from the clubs', it's usually seen as one last pre-season warm up game.

but if it makes you feel better to pretend that a charity shield appearance is as intense a match as a european QF/SF, good luck.

and given that you lot claimed that your squad didn't care about any of the results after your title was confirmed - the players were on the beach/hungover - bit rich to be claiming that you've had the same break as everyone else.

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s traditionally seen as the first game of the season isn’t it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
from the FA's point of view, yes; from the clubs', it's usually seen as one last pre-season warm up game.

but if it makes you feel better to pretend that a charity shield appearance is as intense a match as a european QF/SF, good luck.

and given that you lot claimed that your squad didn't care about any of the results after your title was confirmed - the players were on the beach/hungover - bit rich to be claiming that you've had the same break as everyone else.
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Liverpool haven’t had the same break as everyone else. Some clubs had a longer break.

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

Community shield is a glorified friendly.

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

For context, Liverpool had 48 days from the end of 2019/20 season to their first fixture of this season's league programme.

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

It’s not so much about the break but the ability to prepare for the season. Liverpool clearly had better preparation as they had their players back in training, playing pre season games (including the charity shield) before a few other clubs. They also managed to keep a lot of their key players back from the international break as it was only European nations that were playing.

It’s not just about Liverpool anyway. There hasn’t been an equal, or good preparation, for all clubs - especially compared with normal seasons. And it’s become quite visible watching a few teams play.

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s traditionally seen as the first game of the season isn’t it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
from the FA's point of view, yes; from the clubs', it's usually seen as one last pre-season warm up game.

but if it makes you feel better to pretend that a charity shield appearance is as intense a match as a european QF/SF, good luck.

and given that you lot claimed that your squad didn't care about any of the results after your title was confirmed - the players were on the beach/hungover - bit rich to be claiming that you've had the same break as everyone else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Liverpool haven’t had the same break as everyone else. Some clubs had a longer break.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
also ignoring the fact that you then had 2 weeks off after the charity shield (normally one), because of the international break, which happened before the european-involved clubs had actually started their season.

so whilst united's league season kicked off on the 19th, a lot of their players were away on international duty in early august.

of course if you redid your numbers using the charity shield as the start of your season, and the international break as the start of the season for the big clubs, suddenly doesn't look quite so supportive of your argument.

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

Also doesn’t help if you go into the truncated preseason with a few injured players as they don’t get the time to recuperate like they normally would.

It’s going to be a very odd season.

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s traditionally seen as the first game of the season isn’t it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
from the FA's point of view, yes; from the clubs', it's usually seen as one last pre-season warm up game.

but if it makes you feel better to pretend that a charity shield appearance is as intense a match as a european QF/SF, good luck.

and given that you lot claimed that your squad didn't care about any of the results after your title was confirmed - the players were on the beach/hungover - bit rich to be claiming that you've had the same break as everyone else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Liverpool haven’t had the same break as everyone else. Some clubs had a longer break.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
also ignoring the fact that you then had 2 weeks off after the charity shield (normally one), because of the international break, which happened before the european-involved clubs had actually started their season.

so whilst united's league season kicked off on the 19th, a lot of their players were away on international duty in early august.

of course if you redid your numbers using the charity shield as the start of your season, and the international break as the start of the season for the big clubs, suddenly doesn't look quite so supportive of your argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What argument? I’m just presenting the unarguable Facts supported by stats.

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 34 minutes ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 2 seconds ago
Days between last match of 19/20 and first of 20/21

Liverpool 34
manu 34
Wolves 34
Man City 37

Seems like other teams having a longer preseason could be interpreted as a bit of an excuse.


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cute that you include the charity shield, which is traditionally seen as a club's final warm-up match.
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It’s traditionally seen as the first game of the season isn’t it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a pre season warm up game.

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

its less about the actual days its what preceded them and happened during.

essentially finishing your season in march (kudos) and going through the motions for a few months while other teams players had to go hard every game with things left to play for takes a huge toll in comparison.

a perfect example to me is DVB and Bruno. the difference is sharpness is huge. then there's Pogba, just back from an injury thrust into a top 4 race then the Europa, then internationals, a quarantine and essentially back and thrown straight into the team again. no way can he be anywhere close to match fit

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 47 minutes ago
Days between last match of 19/20 and first of 20/21

Liverpool 34
manu 34
Wolves 34
Man City 37

Seems like other teams having a longer preseason could be interpreted as a bit of an excuse.


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Nice try.

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

comment by rosso - for your protection, we’ve installed this camera (U17054)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 47 minutes ago
Days between last match of 19/20 and first of 20/21

Liverpool 34
manu 34
Wolves 34
Man City 37

Seems like other teams having a longer preseason could be interpreted as a bit of an excuse.


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Nice try.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

He is like Trump on speed.

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s traditionally seen as the first game of the season isn’t it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
from the FA's point of view, yes; from the clubs', it's usually seen as one last pre-season warm up game.

but if it makes you feel better to pretend that a charity shield appearance is as intense a match as a european QF/SF, good luck.

and given that you lot claimed that your squad didn't care about any of the results after your title was confirmed - the players were on the beach/hungover - bit rich to be claiming that you've had the same break as everyone else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Liverpool haven’t had the same break as everyone else. Some clubs had a longer break.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
also ignoring the fact that you then had 2 weeks off after the charity shield (normally one), because of the international break, which happened before the european-involved clubs had actually started their season.

so whilst united's league season kicked off on the 19th, a lot of their players were away on international duty in early august.

of course if you redid your numbers using the charity shield as the start of your season, and the international break as the start of the season for the big clubs, suddenly doesn't look quite so supportive of your argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What argument? I’m just presenting the unarguable Facts supported by stats.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Facts and stats that are irrelevant to the premise of the discussion - i.e. the respective league form of teams involved / not involved in post-season European football.

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

comment by rosso - for your protection, we’ve installed this camera (U17054)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 47 minutes ago
Days between last match of 19/20 and first of 20/21

Liverpool 34
manu 34
Wolves 34
Man City 37

Seems like other teams having a longer preseason could be interpreted as a bit of an excuse.


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Nice try.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What?

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s traditionally seen as the first game of the season isn’t it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
from the FA's point of view, yes; from the clubs', it's usually seen as one last pre-season warm up game.

but if it makes you feel better to pretend that a charity shield appearance is as intense a match as a european QF/SF, good luck.

and given that you lot claimed that your squad didn't care about any of the results after your title was confirmed - the players were on the beach/hungover - bit rich to be claiming that you've had the same break as everyone else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Liverpool haven’t had the same break as everyone else. Some clubs had a longer break.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
also ignoring the fact that you then had 2 weeks off after the charity shield (normally one), because of the international break, which happened before the european-involved clubs had actually started their season.

so whilst united's league season kicked off on the 19th, a lot of their players were away on international duty in early august.

of course if you redid your numbers using the charity shield as the start of your season, and the international break as the start of the season for the big clubs, suddenly doesn't look quite so supportive of your argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What argument? I’m just presenting the unarguable Facts supported by stats.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Facts and stats that are irrelevant to the premise of the discussion - i.e. the respective league form of teams involved / not involved in post-season European football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you portray league form without facts and stats?

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

Liverpool had their first pre season game three weeks before their first premier league game. Manchester United had theirs one week before their first premier league game. One clearly had a longer pre season than the other.

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

Does anyone think had we not put in the effort into our EL games we might be in a better position this season?

I was one who felt any real effort to go and win the EL would have a big effect on our rest and pre season. Obviously we didn’t win it and the earliest we would have realistically been knocked out was only 1 round earlier. But I still think giving the vast majority of our first XI a break soon after the Leicester game would have been very beneficial to this season.

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 minutes ago
Does anyone think had we not put in the effort into our EL games we might be in a better position this season?

I was one who felt any real effort to go and win the EL would have a big effect on our rest and pre season. Obviously we didn’t win it and the earliest we would have realistically been knocked out was only 1 round earlier. But I still think giving the vast majority of our first XI a break soon after the Leicester game would have been very beneficial to this season.
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yep, i was in this camp too...you don't really want to throw a competition, but we were in a unique position - CL secured, EL finishing a month after the league, messy pre-season, and ridiculously congested season itself - with a major tournament (possibly) following immediately after, giving us a messy 2 years.

So yeah, i'd have told most of the first xi to find a nice beach, in a nice non-quarantine country, and watch the EL with a margarita and some of those spicy little rice crackers.

posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

I think that probably would have been the case. There was talk back in August that clubs were going to be allowed to start two weeks later if they’d played in Europe, and that the European qualifiers were going to drop out of the league cup for the season due to the schedule. Unfortunately this didn’t happen, as that would have given us better preparation for the season.

Even just an extra week off for the prem could have helped us, to be honest. We could have used the league cup game as a pre season and started our season this weekend.

posted 3 weeks, 2 days ago

Although correlation does not always mean causation, it is striking that the teams with less of a preseason have under performed. Surely can't be a coincidence?

posted 3 weeks, 2 days ago

It's certainly a small sample size, MMM, so I don't think anyone should take it as hard evidence. For me, the fact that our players didn't come back to training until much later than most other teams, further complicated by the international break, is in itself far more significant than that set of results.

posted 3 weeks, 2 days ago

comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 15 hours, 34 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
I'd say the disadvantage is not the length of break but the length of pre-season. Every game played is more sharpness gained and united are 1 game behind most...hope it last into the weekend bu which time Spurs have played ANOTHER 2 games
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your schedule this week is brutal.
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No biggies. Same as last week!

posted 3 weeks, 2 days ago

No it isn’t. You’ve got to play two midweek games this week, you had one last week.

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