comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 3 minutes ago
Coleman’s - humans will like wipe themselves out before there isn’t religion as it’s simply beliefs and values. There will always be religion whilst there are humans. Humans need something to make there existence have purpose, whether it’s believing in consumerism and it’s rewards or a God etc or sun god based religions etc mankind can’t live without some sort of belief
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. Many people can't get passed their superficial understanding of religion. They think religion is just traditional creeds like Islam, Christianity, Judaism, etc. When in fact any belief system is a religion, and will cause conflict with other systems.
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 2 minutes ago
N2 exactly
Whilst there are humans there will be conflicts. There will always be things dividing people. Delusional to think religion would change anything. People would then simply move to the next thing to target
----------------------------------------------------------------------
👍🏻
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 5 minutes ago
Coleman’s - humans will like wipe themselves out before there isn’t religion as it’s simply beliefs and values. There will always be religion whilst there are humans. Humans need something to make there existence have purpose, whether it’s believing in consumerism and it’s rewards or a God etc or sun god based religions etc mankind can’t live without some sort of belief
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't get your hang up on consumerism.Have you been told by your religious leader that it's bad?
I believe we are merely the alpha species on this planet at the moment,we are all just like all the other animals on this planet,we live then we die.We are just organic matter that is formed into a living being.But because we have a sense of being,a sense of mortality then we need to have a belief to exist!!!! erm no not buying that religious sheight
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 1 minute ago
Coleman’s since mankind existed it’s being pondering higher questions, it’s been asking why am I here and what is my purpose. There are 1000s of religions and many before that. It’s not something novel. Humans have belief systems and always will. These systems will create conflicts and divisions as that’s the human species.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are someone that obviously has strong feelings in favour of religion.If that what gets you through the day then fair enough,go knock yourself out.
Me on other hand absolutely detests religion of all sorts and looks on religion as some sort of global pandemic that has blighted the human race for millennia.
So lets agree to disagree,I don't need a belief system to get through a day,you obviously do,so what works for me doesn't suit you,end off.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
So lets agree to disagree,I don't need a belief system to get through a day,you obviously do,so what works for me doesn't suit you,end off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But you do have a belief system. Starting off with your opposition to religion, adding to that your social and political beliefs, and so on.
Everyone has a belief system, even if it's their own made up one. The sooner you realise this, the sooner you'll see the world for what it is.
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 18 hours, 25 minutes ago
comment by Plump Pumped (U22314)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Diallo Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 33 seconds ago
comment by Pun™ (U21588)
posted 34 seconds ago
Was earlier in the month, he defended France's secular values and said Islam was in crisis all over the world. Announced a bill to strengthen a law that officially separated church and state in France.
Also defended the right to blaspheme and backed satire such as the Charlie Hebdo cartoons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd agree with most of that really. Think mocking ideas is OK.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd disagree, religion is not there to be mocked or ridiculed. It should be critiqued.
If people take religion seriously why should people of non faith ridicule the followers or any aspects of the religion?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever watch Father Ted?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
every episode...lots of times....got it bang on
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 9 hours, 46 minutes ago
comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
Or more people on the planet than ever before.Or persons previously of faith suddenly realising they've wasted their lives on a false deity and losing it mentally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
More people wouldn't affect the percentage going up.
People without religion leave a void in their lives. Some can fill it, others struggle with meaning and purpose.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correlation or causation? Where’s the evidence?
Still astounds me that so many people in this world pray to & revere things that aren't there....
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 9 minutes ago
Still astounds me that so many people in this world pray to & revere things that aren't there....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Doesn't surprise me at all with what you see around you these days.
Im a religious person. Often get into discussions about religion with friends and colleagues. Always amazes me the nature of the discussions tbh. I can always see where certain things are headed and the arguments that are coming.
These days it's ricky gervais 101 where's before it was hitchens 101 and that other geezer with the glasses
comment by rosso - it’s not good enough to be right... (U17054)
posted 12 hours, 17 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 5 hours, 35 minutes ago
comment by Diallo Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Plump Pumped (U22314)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Diallo Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 4 minutes ago
I think the issue arises from the importance people give to religion.
It's great if it's kept personal but if it affects everyone then perhaps it isn't the greatest force for good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are hard wired to be spiritual beings, it's always there. For some it is central to their lives, for others it' s a subject they dip in and out. For others it is meaningless.
I respect all views and everyone's perspective on religion. However, I will not openly mock them or ridicule any aspect of their belief system. Presence (however big or small) or absence of religion in a person makes them who they are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I won't mock anyone for their beliefs but I think I do have the right to at least question talking snakes, Noah's Ark etc. I'd expect to be laughed at if I said I talked with a snake yesterday!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is where I despair at religion and to a degree take peoples views with a pinch of salt.
The original sources are not the way they appear today. The word snake wasn't used for example. Not only that but a description of a walking standing talking "thing" is also revealed and it's later we get the slithering and being on the belly etc, a punishment if you will.
But even without the mistranslations and adding to stories I always wonder how on one hand we can accept evolution from a tiny thing to where we are now yet laugh at other stuff.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We don’t have to accept evolution on faith.
We can look at the overwhelming evidence of its work in action: Linnean familial structure of species, the molecular family tree, the fossil record, biogeography, lab-based micro-evolution we can actually watch happening in real time, deep anatomical resemblances, DNA evidence, and the intertwining and mutual confirmation of combinations of the above.
There’s no need to take anything on faith as far as evolution and natural selection are concerned. It’s one of the - if not *the* - best confirmed scientific theories mankind has proposed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Now that would be an interesting discussion. But it would need time that I don't currently have
Not suggesting you here but often when this kind of thing gets raised and a discussion takes place the "beliefs" are not that far apart in terms of faith in religion or theories
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by rosso - it’s not good enough to be right... (U17054)
posted 12 hours, 17 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 5 hours, 35 minutes ago
comment by Diallo Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Plump Pumped (U22314)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Diallo Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 4 minutes ago
I think the issue arises from the importance people give to religion.
It's great if it's kept personal but if it affects everyone then perhaps it isn't the greatest force for good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are hard wired to be spiritual beings, it's always there. For some it is central to their lives, for others it' s a subject they dip in and out. For others it is meaningless.
I respect all views and everyone's perspective on religion. However, I will not openly mock them or ridicule any aspect of their belief system. Presence (however big or small) or absence of religion in a person makes them who they are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I won't mock anyone for their beliefs but I think I do have the right to at least question talking snakes, Noah's Ark etc. I'd expect to be laughed at if I said I talked with a snake yesterday!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is where I despair at religion and to a degree take peoples views with a pinch of salt.
The original sources are not the way they appear today. The word snake wasn't used for example. Not only that but a description of a walking standing talking "thing" is also revealed and it's later we get the slithering and being on the belly etc, a punishment if you will.
But even without the mistranslations and adding to stories I always wonder how on one hand we can accept evolution from a tiny thing to where we are now yet laugh at other stuff.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We don’t have to accept evolution on faith.
We can look at the overwhelming evidence of its work in action: Linnean familial structure of species, the molecular family tree, the fossil record, biogeography, lab-based micro-evolution we can actually watch happening in real time, deep anatomical resemblances, DNA evidence, and the intertwining and mutual confirmation of combinations of the above.
There’s no need to take anything on faith as far as evolution and natural selection are concerned. It’s one of the - if not *the* - best confirmed scientific theories mankind has proposed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Now that would be an interesting discussion. But it would need time that I don't currently have
Not suggesting you here but often when this kind of thing gets raised and a discussion takes place the "beliefs" are not that far apart in terms of faith in religion or theories
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For scientists and those of a scientific bent, there’s no such thing as faith in theories.
There are posited theories which are yet to be investigated thoroughly and accepted or rejected, there are theories that have been rejected as they have been demonstrated false by experimental or other evidence, and there are theories that have become accepted as they have been demonstrated to provide accurate predictions and mesh with other theories.
Accepting a scientific theory on faith isn’t a scientific practice, and you won’t catch scientists doing that.
If you believe in God, he exists.
If you don't believe in God, he doesn't.
And never the twain shall meet.
I prefer to leave it at that and not mention it any more.
comment by rosso - it’s not good enough to be right; you have to be effective (U17054)
posted 2 hours, 7 minutes ago
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 9 hours, 46 minutes ago
comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
Or more people on the planet than ever before.Or persons previously of faith suddenly realising they've wasted their lives on a false deity and losing it mentally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
More people wouldn't affect the percentage going up.
People without religion leave a void in their lives. Some can fill it, others struggle with meaning and purpose.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correlation or causation? Where’s the evidence?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I doubt that there's any good evidence on this issue. My theory is that mental health has increased due to an increase in egotism. The structure of society today promotes that, and there's nothing to promote humility as religion once did.
comment by rosso - it’s not good enough to be right... (U17054)
posted 2 hours, 39 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by rosso - it’s not good enough to be right... (U17054)
posted 12 hours, 17 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 5 hours, 35 minutes ago
comment by Diallo Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Plump Pumped (U22314)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Diallo Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 4 minutes ago
I think the issue arises from the importance people give to religion.
It's great if it's kept personal but if it affects everyone then perhaps it isn't the greatest force for good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are hard wired to be spiritual beings, it's always there. For some it is central to their lives, for others it' s a subject they dip in and out. For others it is meaningless.
I respect all views and everyone's perspective on religion. However, I will not openly mock them or ridicule any aspect of their belief system. Presence (however big or small) or absence of religion in a person makes them who they are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I won't mock anyone for their beliefs but I think I do have the right to at least question talking snakes, Noah's Ark etc. I'd expect to be laughed at if I said I talked with a snake yesterday!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is where I despair at religion and to a degree take peoples views with a pinch of salt.
The original sources are not the way they appear today. The word snake wasn't used for example. Not only that but a description of a walking standing talking "thing" is also revealed and it's later we get the slithering and being on the belly etc, a punishment if you will.
But even without the mistranslations and adding to stories I always wonder how on one hand we can accept evolution from a tiny thing to where we are now yet laugh at other stuff.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We don’t have to accept evolution on faith.
We can look at the overwhelming evidence of its work in action: Linnean familial structure of species, the molecular family tree, the fossil record, biogeography, lab-based micro-evolution we can actually watch happening in real time, deep anatomical resemblances, DNA evidence, and the intertwining and mutual confirmation of combinations of the above.
There’s no need to take anything on faith as far as evolution and natural selection are concerned. It’s one of the - if not *the* - best confirmed scientific theories mankind has proposed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Now that would be an interesting discussion. But it would need time that I don't currently have
Not suggesting you here but often when this kind of thing gets raised and a discussion takes place the "beliefs" are not that far apart in terms of faith in religion or theories
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For scientists and those of a scientific bent, there’s no such thing as faith in theories.
There are posited theories which are yet to be investigated thoroughly and accepted or rejected, there are theories that have been rejected as they have been demonstrated false by experimental or other evidence, and there are theories that have become accepted as they have been demonstrated to provide accurate predictions and mesh with other theories.
Accepting a scientific theory on faith isn’t a scientific practice, and you won’t catch scientists doing that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not so convinced .
I should have put faith in "" but I do think there is an element of "faith" in scientific theories despite it being called different names.
Interestingly as a Muslim I learnt about the conditions to the attestation to faith, the shahadah, and it has a very "scientific" approach and meaning. The similarities to what you have said and science claims are found in those conditions
I can only speak to the scientific side of matters.
The scientific method requires that a theory to be valid, it must be testable (and thus disprovable), and for it to hold and establish itself it must be supported by evidence in the form of repeatable and repeated experimental (or otherwise evidential) confirmation of its predictions.
In short, to hold any value, a theory makes predictions, which are then confirmed by evidence. And in essence, that’s all they are.
The theory of evolution by natural selection makes predictions about how organisms change over time as a result of changes in heritable physical or behavioral traits, and those predictions have been incredibly comprehensively supported by empirical evidence of many different forms.
There’s no concept of faith or belief involved. There’s just a theory making predictions, and the evidence supporting the theory in the form of confirmation of the accuracy of those predictions.
It’s something that I personally haven’t seen in those religions I’ve read and otherwise learned about, which have seemed to me to ultimately always fall back on belief over evidence. “If you know His nature, you’ll not question His motives.” Etc.
But I’m no scholar of any given faith.
comment by rosso - it’s not good enough to be right... (U17054)
posted 1 hour, 43 minutes ago
I can only speak to the scientific side of matters.
The scientific method requires that a theory to be valid, it must be testable (and thus disprovable), and for it to hold and establish itself it must be supported by evidence in the form of repeatable and repeated experimental (or otherwise evidential) confirmation of its predictions.
In short, to hold any value, a theory makes predictions, which are then confirmed by evidence. And in essence, that’s all they are.
The theory of evolution by natural selection makes predictions about how organisms change over time as a result of changes in heritable physical or behavioral traits, and those predictions have been incredibly comprehensively supported by empirical evidence of many different forms.
There’s no concept of faith or belief involved. There’s just a theory making predictions, and the evidence supporting the theory in the form of confirmation of the accuracy of those predictions.
It’s something that I personally haven’t seen in those religions I’ve read and otherwise learned about, which have seemed to me to ultimately always fall back on belief over evidence. “If you know His nature, you’ll not question His motives.” Etc.
But I’m no scholar of any given faith.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know that many religious folks priests, imams, rabbis etc tend to follow that formula. Usually because they don't want to say I don't know.
In Islam we have scholars of fiqh, which is in essence a science related to a specific field. That's where you get answers to specifics and often detailed.
As I said earlier it's an interesting discussion discussion but I'm pushed for time today. With evolution I looked into various aspects of it and some of the "evidence" imo is found wanting or is a reach at best. Off shoots of the theory don't particularly address the initial claim. I had a brief discussion with Dawkins about it once in passing many years ago and he went down the route you describe, as in don't question certain aspects. And cut the conversation short
Sign in if you want to comment
Paul Pogba to sue the sun
Page 6 of 6
6
posted on 26/10/20
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 3 minutes ago
Coleman’s - humans will like wipe themselves out before there isn’t religion as it’s simply beliefs and values. There will always be religion whilst there are humans. Humans need something to make there existence have purpose, whether it’s believing in consumerism and it’s rewards or a God etc or sun god based religions etc mankind can’t live without some sort of belief
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. Many people can't get passed their superficial understanding of religion. They think religion is just traditional creeds like Islam, Christianity, Judaism, etc. When in fact any belief system is a religion, and will cause conflict with other systems.
posted on 26/10/20
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 2 minutes ago
N2 exactly
Whilst there are humans there will be conflicts. There will always be things dividing people. Delusional to think religion would change anything. People would then simply move to the next thing to target
----------------------------------------------------------------------
👍🏻
posted on 26/10/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/10/20
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 5 minutes ago
Coleman’s - humans will like wipe themselves out before there isn’t religion as it’s simply beliefs and values. There will always be religion whilst there are humans. Humans need something to make there existence have purpose, whether it’s believing in consumerism and it’s rewards or a God etc or sun god based religions etc mankind can’t live without some sort of belief
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't get your hang up on consumerism.Have you been told by your religious leader that it's bad?
I believe we are merely the alpha species on this planet at the moment,we are all just like all the other animals on this planet,we live then we die.We are just organic matter that is formed into a living being.But because we have a sense of being,a sense of mortality then we need to have a belief to exist!!!! erm no not buying that religious sheight
posted on 26/10/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/10/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/10/20
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 1 minute ago
Coleman’s since mankind existed it’s being pondering higher questions, it’s been asking why am I here and what is my purpose. There are 1000s of religions and many before that. It’s not something novel. Humans have belief systems and always will. These systems will create conflicts and divisions as that’s the human species.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are someone that obviously has strong feelings in favour of religion.If that what gets you through the day then fair enough,go knock yourself out.
Me on other hand absolutely detests religion of all sorts and looks on religion as some sort of global pandemic that has blighted the human race for millennia.
So lets agree to disagree,I don't need a belief system to get through a day,you obviously do,so what works for me doesn't suit you,end off.
posted on 27/10/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/10/20
comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
So lets agree to disagree,I don't need a belief system to get through a day,you obviously do,so what works for me doesn't suit you,end off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But you do have a belief system. Starting off with your opposition to religion, adding to that your social and political beliefs, and so on.
Everyone has a belief system, even if it's their own made up one. The sooner you realise this, the sooner you'll see the world for what it is.
posted on 27/10/20
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 18 hours, 25 minutes ago
comment by Plump Pumped (U22314)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Diallo Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 33 seconds ago
comment by Pun™ (U21588)
posted 34 seconds ago
Was earlier in the month, he defended France's secular values and said Islam was in crisis all over the world. Announced a bill to strengthen a law that officially separated church and state in France.
Also defended the right to blaspheme and backed satire such as the Charlie Hebdo cartoons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd agree with most of that really. Think mocking ideas is OK.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd disagree, religion is not there to be mocked or ridiculed. It should be critiqued.
If people take religion seriously why should people of non faith ridicule the followers or any aspects of the religion?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever watch Father Ted?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
every episode...lots of times....got it bang on
posted on 27/10/20
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 9 hours, 46 minutes ago
comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
Or more people on the planet than ever before.Or persons previously of faith suddenly realising they've wasted their lives on a false deity and losing it mentally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
More people wouldn't affect the percentage going up.
People without religion leave a void in their lives. Some can fill it, others struggle with meaning and purpose.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correlation or causation? Where’s the evidence?
posted on 27/10/20
Still astounds me that so many people in this world pray to & revere things that aren't there....
posted on 27/10/20
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 9 minutes ago
Still astounds me that so many people in this world pray to & revere things that aren't there....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Doesn't surprise me at all with what you see around you these days.
Im a religious person. Often get into discussions about religion with friends and colleagues. Always amazes me the nature of the discussions tbh. I can always see where certain things are headed and the arguments that are coming.
These days it's ricky gervais 101 where's before it was hitchens 101 and that other geezer with the glasses
posted on 27/10/20
comment by rosso - it’s not good enough to be right... (U17054)
posted 12 hours, 17 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 5 hours, 35 minutes ago
comment by Diallo Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Plump Pumped (U22314)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Diallo Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 4 minutes ago
I think the issue arises from the importance people give to religion.
It's great if it's kept personal but if it affects everyone then perhaps it isn't the greatest force for good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are hard wired to be spiritual beings, it's always there. For some it is central to their lives, for others it' s a subject they dip in and out. For others it is meaningless.
I respect all views and everyone's perspective on religion. However, I will not openly mock them or ridicule any aspect of their belief system. Presence (however big or small) or absence of religion in a person makes them who they are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I won't mock anyone for their beliefs but I think I do have the right to at least question talking snakes, Noah's Ark etc. I'd expect to be laughed at if I said I talked with a snake yesterday!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is where I despair at religion and to a degree take peoples views with a pinch of salt.
The original sources are not the way they appear today. The word snake wasn't used for example. Not only that but a description of a walking standing talking "thing" is also revealed and it's later we get the slithering and being on the belly etc, a punishment if you will.
But even without the mistranslations and adding to stories I always wonder how on one hand we can accept evolution from a tiny thing to where we are now yet laugh at other stuff.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We don’t have to accept evolution on faith.
We can look at the overwhelming evidence of its work in action: Linnean familial structure of species, the molecular family tree, the fossil record, biogeography, lab-based micro-evolution we can actually watch happening in real time, deep anatomical resemblances, DNA evidence, and the intertwining and mutual confirmation of combinations of the above.
There’s no need to take anything on faith as far as evolution and natural selection are concerned. It’s one of the - if not *the* - best confirmed scientific theories mankind has proposed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Now that would be an interesting discussion. But it would need time that I don't currently have
Not suggesting you here but often when this kind of thing gets raised and a discussion takes place the "beliefs" are not that far apart in terms of faith in religion or theories
posted on 27/10/20
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by rosso - it’s not good enough to be right... (U17054)
posted 12 hours, 17 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 5 hours, 35 minutes ago
comment by Diallo Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Plump Pumped (U22314)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Diallo Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 4 minutes ago
I think the issue arises from the importance people give to religion.
It's great if it's kept personal but if it affects everyone then perhaps it isn't the greatest force for good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are hard wired to be spiritual beings, it's always there. For some it is central to their lives, for others it' s a subject they dip in and out. For others it is meaningless.
I respect all views and everyone's perspective on religion. However, I will not openly mock them or ridicule any aspect of their belief system. Presence (however big or small) or absence of religion in a person makes them who they are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I won't mock anyone for their beliefs but I think I do have the right to at least question talking snakes, Noah's Ark etc. I'd expect to be laughed at if I said I talked with a snake yesterday!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is where I despair at religion and to a degree take peoples views with a pinch of salt.
The original sources are not the way they appear today. The word snake wasn't used for example. Not only that but a description of a walking standing talking "thing" is also revealed and it's later we get the slithering and being on the belly etc, a punishment if you will.
But even without the mistranslations and adding to stories I always wonder how on one hand we can accept evolution from a tiny thing to where we are now yet laugh at other stuff.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We don’t have to accept evolution on faith.
We can look at the overwhelming evidence of its work in action: Linnean familial structure of species, the molecular family tree, the fossil record, biogeography, lab-based micro-evolution we can actually watch happening in real time, deep anatomical resemblances, DNA evidence, and the intertwining and mutual confirmation of combinations of the above.
There’s no need to take anything on faith as far as evolution and natural selection are concerned. It’s one of the - if not *the* - best confirmed scientific theories mankind has proposed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Now that would be an interesting discussion. But it would need time that I don't currently have
Not suggesting you here but often when this kind of thing gets raised and a discussion takes place the "beliefs" are not that far apart in terms of faith in religion or theories
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For scientists and those of a scientific bent, there’s no such thing as faith in theories.
There are posited theories which are yet to be investigated thoroughly and accepted or rejected, there are theories that have been rejected as they have been demonstrated false by experimental or other evidence, and there are theories that have become accepted as they have been demonstrated to provide accurate predictions and mesh with other theories.
Accepting a scientific theory on faith isn’t a scientific practice, and you won’t catch scientists doing that.
posted on 27/10/20
If you believe in God, he exists.
If you don't believe in God, he doesn't.
And never the twain shall meet.
I prefer to leave it at that and not mention it any more.
posted on 27/10/20
comment by rosso - it’s not good enough to be right; you have to be effective (U17054)
posted 2 hours, 7 minutes ago
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 9 hours, 46 minutes ago
comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
Or more people on the planet than ever before.Or persons previously of faith suddenly realising they've wasted their lives on a false deity and losing it mentally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
More people wouldn't affect the percentage going up.
People without religion leave a void in their lives. Some can fill it, others struggle with meaning and purpose.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correlation or causation? Where’s the evidence?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I doubt that there's any good evidence on this issue. My theory is that mental health has increased due to an increase in egotism. The structure of society today promotes that, and there's nothing to promote humility as religion once did.
posted on 27/10/20
comment by rosso - it’s not good enough to be right... (U17054)
posted 2 hours, 39 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by rosso - it’s not good enough to be right... (U17054)
posted 12 hours, 17 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 5 hours, 35 minutes ago
comment by Diallo Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Plump Pumped (U22314)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Diallo Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 4 minutes ago
I think the issue arises from the importance people give to religion.
It's great if it's kept personal but if it affects everyone then perhaps it isn't the greatest force for good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are hard wired to be spiritual beings, it's always there. For some it is central to their lives, for others it' s a subject they dip in and out. For others it is meaningless.
I respect all views and everyone's perspective on religion. However, I will not openly mock them or ridicule any aspect of their belief system. Presence (however big or small) or absence of religion in a person makes them who they are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I won't mock anyone for their beliefs but I think I do have the right to at least question talking snakes, Noah's Ark etc. I'd expect to be laughed at if I said I talked with a snake yesterday!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is where I despair at religion and to a degree take peoples views with a pinch of salt.
The original sources are not the way they appear today. The word snake wasn't used for example. Not only that but a description of a walking standing talking "thing" is also revealed and it's later we get the slithering and being on the belly etc, a punishment if you will.
But even without the mistranslations and adding to stories I always wonder how on one hand we can accept evolution from a tiny thing to where we are now yet laugh at other stuff.
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We don’t have to accept evolution on faith.
We can look at the overwhelming evidence of its work in action: Linnean familial structure of species, the molecular family tree, the fossil record, biogeography, lab-based micro-evolution we can actually watch happening in real time, deep anatomical resemblances, DNA evidence, and the intertwining and mutual confirmation of combinations of the above.
There’s no need to take anything on faith as far as evolution and natural selection are concerned. It’s one of the - if not *the* - best confirmed scientific theories mankind has proposed.
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Now that would be an interesting discussion. But it would need time that I don't currently have
Not suggesting you here but often when this kind of thing gets raised and a discussion takes place the "beliefs" are not that far apart in terms of faith in religion or theories
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For scientists and those of a scientific bent, there’s no such thing as faith in theories.
There are posited theories which are yet to be investigated thoroughly and accepted or rejected, there are theories that have been rejected as they have been demonstrated false by experimental or other evidence, and there are theories that have become accepted as they have been demonstrated to provide accurate predictions and mesh with other theories.
Accepting a scientific theory on faith isn’t a scientific practice, and you won’t catch scientists doing that.
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I'm not so convinced .
I should have put faith in "" but I do think there is an element of "faith" in scientific theories despite it being called different names.
Interestingly as a Muslim I learnt about the conditions to the attestation to faith, the shahadah, and it has a very "scientific" approach and meaning. The similarities to what you have said and science claims are found in those conditions
posted on 27/10/20
I can only speak to the scientific side of matters.
The scientific method requires that a theory to be valid, it must be testable (and thus disprovable), and for it to hold and establish itself it must be supported by evidence in the form of repeatable and repeated experimental (or otherwise evidential) confirmation of its predictions.
In short, to hold any value, a theory makes predictions, which are then confirmed by evidence. And in essence, that’s all they are.
The theory of evolution by natural selection makes predictions about how organisms change over time as a result of changes in heritable physical or behavioral traits, and those predictions have been incredibly comprehensively supported by empirical evidence of many different forms.
There’s no concept of faith or belief involved. There’s just a theory making predictions, and the evidence supporting the theory in the form of confirmation of the accuracy of those predictions.
It’s something that I personally haven’t seen in those religions I’ve read and otherwise learned about, which have seemed to me to ultimately always fall back on belief over evidence. “If you know His nature, you’ll not question His motives.” Etc.
But I’m no scholar of any given faith.
posted on 27/10/20
comment by rosso - it’s not good enough to be right... (U17054)
posted 1 hour, 43 minutes ago
I can only speak to the scientific side of matters.
The scientific method requires that a theory to be valid, it must be testable (and thus disprovable), and for it to hold and establish itself it must be supported by evidence in the form of repeatable and repeated experimental (or otherwise evidential) confirmation of its predictions.
In short, to hold any value, a theory makes predictions, which are then confirmed by evidence. And in essence, that’s all they are.
The theory of evolution by natural selection makes predictions about how organisms change over time as a result of changes in heritable physical or behavioral traits, and those predictions have been incredibly comprehensively supported by empirical evidence of many different forms.
There’s no concept of faith or belief involved. There’s just a theory making predictions, and the evidence supporting the theory in the form of confirmation of the accuracy of those predictions.
It’s something that I personally haven’t seen in those religions I’ve read and otherwise learned about, which have seemed to me to ultimately always fall back on belief over evidence. “If you know His nature, you’ll not question His motives.” Etc.
But I’m no scholar of any given faith.
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I know that many religious folks priests, imams, rabbis etc tend to follow that formula. Usually because they don't want to say I don't know.
In Islam we have scholars of fiqh, which is in essence a science related to a specific field. That's where you get answers to specifics and often detailed.
As I said earlier it's an interesting discussion discussion but I'm pushed for time today. With evolution I looked into various aspects of it and some of the "evidence" imo is found wanting or is a reach at best. Off shoots of the theory don't particularly address the initial claim. I had a brief discussion with Dawkins about it once in passing many years ago and he went down the route you describe, as in don't question certain aspects. And cut the conversation short
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