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Klopp would have got sacked if

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posted on 16/11/20

comment by RipleysCat (U1862)
posted 3 minutes ago
I do wonder how many black players purposefully chose not to pursue a career in management because of the limited opportunities they genuinely felt they would have.
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It's okay mate, the poster above has clarified that it's nothing to do with skin colour, so we can all sleep easy.

posted on 16/11/20

I have to say, Justanother’s comments in this thread are comments that have made me feel uncomfortable, to say the least.

There seems to be an underlying insinuation in his comments that suggest that the reason why black managers aren’t more prevalent in English football is because black people aren’t good enough to be managers.

posted on 16/11/20

comment by RipleysCat (U1862)
posted 39 seconds ago
I have to say, Justanother’s comments in this thread are comments that have made me feel uncomfortable, to say the least.

There seems to be an underlying insinuation in his comments that suggest that the reason why black managers aren’t more prevalent in English football is because black people aren’t good enough to be managers.
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As I have said, it has nothing to do with colour of skin.

Keith Curle is a black manager who is NOT good enough to manage in the Premier League. Like many other white managers, who are also not good enough to manage in the PL.

Tell where I have said, "black people are not good enough to be managers"? I have said that there aren't enough black coaches/managers that are good enough, hence why they aren't in a job. Not that they couldn't be good enough, but at the moment, they aren't. Just like the white managers out of work or outside the PL who aren't good enough.

A manager does not get a job because there are other people who are better - that doesn't matter what skin colour you are. It would be wrong to assume otherwise, even though there are likely cases where this has happened, it would be wrong to assume that somebody has not hired a black manager based on the colour of his skin.

posted on 16/11/20

As I have said, it is nothing to do with colour of skin

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The whole discussion is specifically about colour of skin.

You dismissing the very premise of the actual discussion is one of the reasons why I find your comments uncomfortable.

posted on 16/11/20

Yip said that on this thread yesterday - ‘ignorant at best’ I think was what I said about some of the comments. Checking back today, wincing and cringing at the continued dragged out gammony jargon within the comments.

posted on 16/11/20

comment by RipleysCat (U1862)
posted 2 hours, 12 minutes ago
As I have said, it is nothing to do with colour of skin

——————————

The whole discussion is specifically about colour of skin.

You dismissing the very premise of the actual discussion is one of the reasons why I find your comments uncomfortable.


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Yeah and as I keep saying, people think the issue is that black managers are not getting jobs because of the colour of their skin, which is not true.

They are not getting jobs because a) the black coaches that are currently around are not good enough at their job to get a top job and b) they are still a minority in respect to the actual ratio of black to white coaches.

It's not ignorant, nobody is "ignoring" the issue. As I keep saying, what more do you want people to do? It is now obligatory to consider a BAME candidate for a managerial role. How much further do you go than that? What more can you ask of a football club that is actually correct?

Keith Curle will not get a Premier League job because his managerial ability isn't good enough to. Likewise, Paul Tisdale will not get a Premier League job because his managerial ability isn't good enough to. People are trying to make an issue when there isn't really one there to be made.

Maybe the way I am/have written it has been misinterpreted, but the general feeling is that people seem to think black managers do not get jobs on the basis of their colour of their skin, no. It's a transitional society, there may have been instances, but football clubs will not get away with it these days anyway if that was the case, a bit like how the FA Chairman didn't get away with being racist and left his position.

posted on 16/11/20

What is incredibly telling is that in all your posts in this thread, you’ve only ever been able to name less than a handful of black managers in order to make your point.

posted on 16/11/20

comment by RipleysCat (U1862)
posted 1 minute ago
What is incredibly telling is that in all your posts in this thread, you’ve only ever been able to name less than a handful of black managers in order to make your point.
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I'm not an expert and neither are you, but those are the names of managers that I know of that have managed recently.

Yes there is only a few, as I have said repeatedly, something that needs addressing and it is doing. The issue becomes when people attempt to make an issue (ie. John Barnes' comments on Klopp) that isn't even there to be made, based on no hard evidence.

If you think it's right to assume that there are only a handful of black managers, is it not also right to assume there may be a fair number of aspiring black managers now applying for jobs that we don't know about? But maybe, seen as though they have to be considered now, they don't get the job because they don't have the relevant experience for the position.

I agree with them when they say, it is hard for a black coach/manager to get a job for two reasons. 1) It has been difficult because of the limited opportunities from the past and 2) because there are more white managers/coaches than black managers/coaches. So, probability wise, if there are 6 candidates for a job, 4 of them are white, 2 of them are black, there is more of a chance of a white manager being appointed, is there not?

So with that being the case, what do you do to resolve the issue? Do we now just start handing jobs out to black coaches to help show equality in football? As I've said, the opportunity is now there, you just have to keep looking.

Sam Allardyce has been out of a job since 2018. Now I don't know how many appealing jobs for him have come up between then and now, but I'd put a bet on their being, say half a dozen jobs, for arguments sake, that he would have applied for. He hasn't got any of them. Does that mean there is a lack of an opportunity for him to get a job again, or is it just that he isn't the right candidate for the job perhaps? I understand he's a vastly experienced manager so of course the situation is different, but I'm talking in principle.

posted on 16/11/20

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

posted on 16/11/20

comment by RipleysCat (U1862)
posted 7 minutes ago
Are you being deliberately obtuse?


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No, I just don't quite think you get the concept of what I'm saying and just assuming things.

posted on 16/11/20

Your entire premise is based around the idea that black managers are not good enough. Your premise is flawed from the outset because it is being ignorant of one very pertinent point. A point that you have utterly failed to grasp.

Think about it. I’m not going to spell it out for you.

posted on 17/11/20

"RipleysCat (U1862)

posted 5 hours, 9 minutes ago

Your entire premise is based around the idea that black managers are not good enough. Your premise is flawed from the outset because it is being ignorant of one very pertinent point. A point that you have utterly failed to grasp.

Think about it. I’m not going to spell it out for you."

Bollocks, have you read everything that has been written here?..

I don't think so!..

The sh-crap here is what someone has said, and it should be pointed out, against a very good manager that seems to be for no fault of his own the wrong colour!..

Fact is, if the manager that person was referring to was his colour then he wouldn't have said what he said!..

Barnes is a disgrace for using Klopp for his means and leaving the Black managerial in a debate it doesn't need to be in!..

The English league are fast tracking Black managers and I think are doing it to stop the balls that Barnes seems to be playing with!..

If you think there is one Black manager out there that is as good as Klopp and could do his job as well as him, name him!..

And I can guarantee, I've nothing against Black and I look forward to the day when they take their rightful place in any job they are worthy of taking!..

posted on 17/11/20

comment by LufcGermany (U6066)
posted 6 hours, 45 minutes ago
"RipleysCat (U1862)

posted 5 hours, 9 minutes ago

Your entire premise is based around the idea that black managers are not good enough. Your premise is flawed from the outset because it is being ignorant of one very pertinent point. A point that you have utterly failed to grasp.

Think about it. I’m not going to spell it out for you."

Bollocks, have you read everything that has been written here?..

I don't think so!..

The sh-crap here is what someone has said, and it should be pointed out, against a very good manager that seems to be for no fault of his own the wrong colour!..

Fact is, if the manager that person was referring to was his colour then he wouldn't have said what he said!..

Barnes is a disgrace for using Klopp for his means and leaving the Black managerial in a debate it doesn't need to be in!..

The English league are fast tracking Black managers and I think are doing it to stop the balls that Barnes seems to be playing with!..

If you think there is one Black manager out there that is as good as Klopp and could do his job as well as him, name him!..

And I can guarantee, I've nothing against Black and I look forward to the day when they take their rightful place in any job they are worthy of taking!..
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Well we’ll never f*cking know if they’re never given the opportunity will we?

There’s institutional (and blatant) racism ingrained in every aspect of British society, from the police, the workplace and yes football.

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