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comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
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I'd imagine that these smaller teams considered which way to vote and which would most benefit them and their players before voting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which would benefit them? Definitely. Which would benefit their players? Definitely not. Don't come crying back to us when half your team have muscle injuries in February. Facking morons. I see Sheff Utd have made full use of that 3 subs advantage against the big clubs. Facking English dinosaurs embarassing us in front of the world again while pretty much every football association in Europe goes for 5 subs with the insane fixture list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leeds have already had plenty of injuries this season. That's football. You roll with it and you deal with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That doesn't have to be football though you facking philistine. Why are you fine with players having easily avoidable injuries?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point is that I don't think Klopp whining about it has all that much to do with fitness at all, and I still don't think it's Klopp being altruistic and thinking of the benefits for all clubs. It's for the benefit of his club, because you didn't bother to invest in having depth in defense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you know he "didn't bother" investing in his defence? How do you know the club didn't attempt to sign somebody but it didn't come off in the summer because players were unwilling to join to be essentially 4th choice? No evidence to support what you said there at all.
Klopp is of course going to look for an advantage for his own side, but, in turn giving benefit to other sides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And other clubs are of course going to look for an advantage for themselves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So by saying they aren't "gaining" from this previously you've now just gone and said that they are looking to gain an advantage because of it. Make your mind up.
As I say, it gives benefit to everyone, because no club wants to lose their best players to injuries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They're looking to maintain the status quo that serves as a leveller between clubs
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And you're hoping to disrupt the status quo by ensuring enough top players get horrific injuries, you can then hopefully beat the bigger clubs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Injuries happen. Have the infrastructure to deal with them. Don't expect other clubs to kowtow and then get angry and petulant when they don't.
It is a bit weird that avoiding injuries is seen as an unfair advantage.
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
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comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
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comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
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comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
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comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'd imagine that these smaller teams considered which way to vote and which would most benefit them and their players before voting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which would benefit them? Definitely. Which would benefit their players? Definitely not. Don't come crying back to us when half your team have muscle injuries in February. Facking morons. I see Sheff Utd have made full use of that 3 subs advantage against the big clubs. Facking English dinosaurs embarassing us in front of the world again while pretty much every football association in Europe goes for 5 subs with the insane fixture list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leeds have already had plenty of injuries this season. That's football. You roll with it and you deal with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That doesn't have to be football though you facking philistine. Why are you fine with players having easily avoidable injuries?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point is that I don't think Klopp whining about it has all that much to do with fitness at all, and I still don't think it's Klopp being altruistic and thinking of the benefits for all clubs. It's for the benefit of his club, because you didn't bother to invest in having depth in defense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you know he "didn't bother" investing in his defence? How do you know the club didn't attempt to sign somebody but it didn't come off in the summer because players were unwilling to join to be essentially 4th choice? No evidence to support what you said there at all.
Klopp is of course going to look for an advantage for his own side, but, in turn giving benefit to other sides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And other clubs are of course going to look for an advantage for themselves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So by saying they aren't "gaining" from this previously you've now just gone and said that they are looking to gain an advantage because of it. Make your mind up.
As I say, it gives benefit to everyone, because no club wants to lose their best players to injuries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They're looking to maintain the status quo that serves as a leveller between clubs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How does it?
Bigger clubs play more games. Must be nice for shiiiite clubs like Sheffield United to not worry about European matches. Tottenham could play something like 17 extra games if they make the EL final FFS.
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comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 38 seconds ago
It is a bit weird that avoiding injuries is seen as an unfair advantage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah but how many times will subs 4 ans 5 be used for injury avoidance.
Fact is it will not . It just give managers more ability to change games and those with the bigger better squads will be better able to affect games with further subs
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comment by We're Italians, Robert, Whack means somet... (U3979)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
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posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 50 seconds ago
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comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
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comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'd imagine that these smaller teams considered which way to vote and which would most benefit them and their players before voting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which would benefit them? Definitely. Which would benefit their players? Definitely not. Don't come crying back to us when half your team have muscle injuries in February. Facking morons. I see Sheff Utd have made full use of that 3 subs advantage against the big clubs. Facking English dinosaurs embarassing us in front of the world again while pretty much every football association in Europe goes for 5 subs with the insane fixture list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leeds have already had plenty of injuries this season. That's football. You roll with it and you deal with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That doesn't have to be football though you facking philistine. Why are you fine with players having easily avoidable injuries?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point is that I don't think Klopp whining about it has all that much to do with fitness at all, and I still don't think it's Klopp being altruistic and thinking of the benefits for all clubs. It's for the benefit of his club, because you didn't bother to invest in having depth in defense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you know he "didn't bother" investing in his defence? How do you know the club didn't attempt to sign somebody but it didn't come off in the summer because players were unwilling to join to be essentially 4th choice? No evidence to support what you said there at all.
Klopp is of course going to look for an advantage for his own side, but, in turn giving benefit to other sides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And other clubs are of course going to look for an advantage for themselves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So by saying they aren't "gaining" from this previously you've now just gone and said that they are looking to gain an advantage because of it. Make your mind up.
As I say, it gives benefit to everyone, because no club wants to lose their best players to injuries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They're looking to maintain the status quo that serves as a leveller between clubs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How does it?
Bigger clubs play more games. Must be nice for shiiiite clubs like Sheffield United to not worry about European matches. Tottenham could play something like 17 extra games if they make the EL final FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Liverpool earned +£100 from the UCL.
I am sure Sheff Utds are pretty justified in thinking "suck it up buttercup!"
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 38 seconds ago
It is a bit weird that avoiding injuries is seen as an unfair advantage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah but how many times will subs 4 ans 5 be used for injury avoidance.
Fact is it will not . It just give managers more ability to change games and those with the bigger better squads will be better able to affect games with further subs
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I don't remember the Chelsea and Arsenal games, but against you and City, Klopp used a total of 1 sub in 2 games. In close games, managers want to keep things the same, not different.
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but the difference would be in other games - 1-1 vs Fulham, 3 subs used I am sure he would have loved to have thrown on a couple more attack minded players to get the win
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 38 seconds ago
It is a bit weird that avoiding injuries is seen as an unfair advantage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah but how many times will subs 4 ans 5 be used for injury avoidance.
Fact is it will not . It just give managers more ability to change games and those with the bigger better squads will be better able to affect games with further subs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yet Liverpool used zero subs in a game that was level until 91 minutes, and City used just 2 subs in a game that was 1-1 from before half time until the end (even though they had Torres, Mahrez and Silva on the bench and one of their subs was a straight full back swap)
And, as I showed before, even abroad, the Serie A leaders AC Milan only used 3 subs in a game they drew 2-2 with 18th placed Genoa - a game they were 2-1 down from the 60th to 83rd minute and they only used 1 sub in that time.
There is very little evidence to say "big clubs" will chuck on 5 subs in chasing a game, and less to say that would even be successful.
Spurs are 2nd in the league with 3 subs, Sheffield are bottom on a point with 3 subs, truth is 5 subs would probably have helped Sheffield and the lesser teams more than it would the bigger.
The bigger teams start with their strongest 11 regardless and will usually only make changes during the game if the games won or for tactical reasons. Usually changes weaken their starting 11 as ofc thats usually the strongest team they can field.
Compare it to lower clubs who use a lot of energy as they have less of the ball... having 2 extra subs can be more of a benefit to them.
The reason theyre being selfish is because they dont play in europe they dont go as far in cup comps they dont play as many games and they cling to the hope this will be a disadvantage to the top teams and an advantage to them in the long run but it wont, it isnt, these teams will still be bottom n the top teams will still be at the top.
So disregarding player wellfare is pathetic imo. Only league in europe doing it. This is why the top teams want more power and it could be the end of the money for these teams doing this kind of stuff in the future it really could when the top teams finally have enough n fack off leaving em behind.
but the difference would be in other games - 1-1 vs Fulham, 3 subs used I am sure he would have loved to have thrown on a couple more attack minded players to get the win
=========
He had Ox, someone called Jake Cain and Nathaniel Phillips to call on.
And he took Salah off.
Not read the replies but he wants 5 subs because there has been around a 25% increase in muscular injuries.
Close the thread.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
but the difference would be in other games - 1-1 vs Fulham, 3 subs used I am sure he would have loved to have thrown on a couple more attack minded players to get the win
=========
He had Ox, someone called Jake Cain and Nathaniel Phillips to call on.
And he took Salah off.
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And I think the other 2 subs were injuries to defenders. So, yeah, I am sure he would have loved to make 2 more.
Equally, I am sure Scott Parker wouldn't have said no to the option of throwing Tom Cairney on, or even Tim Ream to protect the point.
I get his and Guardiolas logic for wanting it and I don’t think the benefits are for the big clubs.
Personally I’m not a fan of it though. Being able to possibly change half the outfield team just doesn’t feel right to me. I am a Luddite with these kind of things though, admittedly.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 14 minutes ago
but the difference would be in other games - 1-1 vs Fulham, 3 subs used I am sure he would have loved to have thrown on a couple more attack minded players to get the win
=========
He had Ox, someone called Jake Cain and Nathaniel Phillips to call on.
And he took Salah off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 19 seconds ago
I get his and Guardiolas logic for wanting it and I don’t think the benefits are for the big clubs.
Personally I’m not a fan of it though. Being able to possibly change half the outfield team just doesn’t feel right to me. I am a Luddite with these kind of things though, admittedly.
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In any other season, I'd agree but exceptions should've been made this year.
I really don't buy this belief that the big clubs would just throw all their attackers on if they're losing just because they can.
Here's a scenario for you. Liverpool have a fully fit squad to choose from. Klopp starts a front 6 of:
Hendo - Fabinho - Thiago
Salah - Firmino - Mane
Liverpool are losing 1-0 in the 60th minute so he subs off Hendo for Jota. Liverpool are still losing 1-0 in the 75th minute so he decides to bring Keita on for Fabinho. Liverpool are still losing 1-0 in the 85th minute so he wants to bring Shaqiri on. Who does he take off that would give us such a massive advantage?
It's not like managers are going to completely sacrifice the shape of the team and sub in 5 attackers just because they're losing.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by We're Italians, Robert, Whack means somet... (U3979)
posted 55 seconds ago
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posted 2 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 58 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'd imagine that these smaller teams considered which way to vote and which would most benefit them and their players before voting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which would benefit them? Definitely. Which would benefit their players? Definitely not. Don't come crying back to us when half your team have muscle injuries in February. Facking morons. I see Sheff Utd have made full use of that 3 subs advantage against the big clubs. Facking English dinosaurs embarassing us in front of the world again while pretty much every football association in Europe goes for 5 subs with the insane fixture list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leeds have already had plenty of injuries this season. That's football. You roll with it and you deal with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That doesn't have to be football though you facking philistine. Why are you fine with players having easily avoidable injuries?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point is that I don't think Klopp whining about it has all that much to do with fitness at all, and I still don't think it's Klopp being altruistic and thinking of the benefits for all clubs. It's for the benefit of his club, because you didn't bother to invest in having depth in defense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you know he "didn't bother" investing in his defence? How do you know the club didn't attempt to sign somebody but it didn't come off in the summer because players were unwilling to join to be essentially 4th choice? No evidence to support what you said there at all.
Klopp is of course going to look for an advantage for his own side, but, in turn giving benefit to other sides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And other clubs are of course going to look for an advantage for themselves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So by saying they aren't "gaining" from this previously you've now just gone and said that they are looking to gain an advantage because of it. Make your mind up.
As I say, it gives benefit to everyone, because no club wants to lose their best players to injuries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They're looking to maintain the status quo that serves as a leveller between clubs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How does it?
Bigger clubs play more games. Must be nice for shiiiite clubs like Sheffield United to not worry about European matches. Tottenham could play something like 17 extra games if they make the EL final FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Liverpool earned +£100 from the UCL.
I am sure Sheff Utds are pretty justified in thinking "suck it up buttercup!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And how does that money help injuries exactly?
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 3 seconds ago
I really don't buy this belief that the big clubs would just throw all their attackers on if they're losing just because they can.
Here's a scenario for you. Liverpool have a fully fit squad to choose from. Klopp starts a front 6 of:
Hendo - Fabinho - Thiago
Salah - Firmino - Mane
Liverpool are losing 1-0 in the 60th minute so he subs off Hendo for Jota. Liverpool are still losing 1-0 in the 75th minute so he decides to bring Keita on for Fabinho. Liverpool are still losing 1-0 in the 85th minute so he wants to bring Shaqiri on. Who does he take off that would give us such a massive advantage?
It's not like managers are going to completely sacrifice the shape of the team and sub in 5 attackers just because they're losing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some idiots think FIFA is real life.
This is a big thing for the clubs in Europe!..
Why should the so called 10 vote to help clubs in European football earn more money and buy better players!..
No reasons for 3 subs unless you're playing more games, and that's Klopps problem, not the teams that vote against!..
comment by LufcGermany (U6066)
posted 8 minutes ago
This is a big thing for the clubs in Europe!..
Why should the so called 10 vote to help clubs in European football earn more money and buy better players!..
No reasons for 3 subs unless you're playing more games, and that's Klopps problem, not the teams that vote against!..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's talking about the health of players, that's it.
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 24 seconds ago
The smaller teams just want to gain an artificial advantage over the bigger teams with "better" squad depth because that's how they believe they'd be able to compete against these clubs.
As has been established, every club has their best players they'd rather not lose, if you've made all 3 subs and your best player goes down to a hamstring injury for 3-4 weeks because of the amount of intense games over a short period of time, then I'd say they'd be the first one's moaning.
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The smaller clubs aren't "gaining" any advantage by keeping the laws of the game as they are.
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Conclusively, you can never prove this.
But everybody knows if somebody has 1/2 key players missing for a particular fixture, that puts you at a disadvantage of getting the best possible result.
So I'd put a good bet on the sides at the bottom believing they "gain an advantage" by the injuries that the top teams sustain.
Your Salah's, De Bryune's Kane's etc will be playing every game, every week. With the state of the current season, the likelihood is if there fitness, health and wellbeing is mismanaged due to fixture congestion, they will get injured for a length of time. Not seeing any of the 3 players I've mentioned on a teamsheet would give a massive boost to any side at the bottom.
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Don't play them every game every week then. That's what rotation is for. If Klopp decides to play Salah in a meaningless CL game and he gets injured then that's on him.
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Who else does he play then? Who else does he have available to him? He has to select a Champions League squad so unfortunately he can't just play who he wants like he can in the league, hence why they have played.
The youngsters might not have even been fit to play for all we know, we don't know the conversations that went on between the medical team and the coaching staff.
comment by We're Italians, Robert, Whack means something else to us (U3979)
posted 42 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by We're Italians, Robert, Whack means somet... (U3979)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 58 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'd imagine that these smaller teams considered which way to vote and which would most benefit them and their players before voting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which would benefit them? Definitely. Which would benefit their players? Definitely not. Don't come crying back to us when half your team have muscle injuries in February. Facking morons. I see Sheff Utd have made full use of that 3 subs advantage against the big clubs. Facking English dinosaurs embarassing us in front of the world again while pretty much every football association in Europe goes for 5 subs with the insane fixture list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leeds have already had plenty of injuries this season. That's football. You roll with it and you deal with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That doesn't have to be football though you facking philistine. Why are you fine with players having easily avoidable injuries?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point is that I don't think Klopp whining about it has all that much to do with fitness at all, and I still don't think it's Klopp being altruistic and thinking of the benefits for all clubs. It's for the benefit of his club, because you didn't bother to invest in having depth in defense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you know he "didn't bother" investing in his defence? How do you know the club didn't attempt to sign somebody but it didn't come off in the summer because players were unwilling to join to be essentially 4th choice? No evidence to support what you said there at all.
Klopp is of course going to look for an advantage for his own side, but, in turn giving benefit to other sides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And other clubs are of course going to look for an advantage for themselves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So by saying they aren't "gaining" from this previously you've now just gone and said that they are looking to gain an advantage because of it. Make your mind up.
As I say, it gives benefit to everyone, because no club wants to lose their best players to injuries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They're looking to maintain the status quo that serves as a leveller between clubs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How does it?
Bigger clubs play more games. Must be nice for shiiiite clubs like Sheffield United to not worry about European matches. Tottenham could play something like 17 extra games if they make the EL final FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Liverpool earned +£100 from the UCL.
I am sure Sheff Utds are pretty justified in thinking "suck it up buttercup!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And how does that money help injuries exactly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what people do not understand, just because so much was earned through the CL, doesn't mean you can spend that much.
Clubs have wage structures to follow which make them successful, like Spurs and Liverpool in recent times. There is then the factor of if players are willing to join to be 4th choice.
As someone has said above, people think it's just a game of Fifa 21 where you can buy whoever you want and they virtually automatically join, it's not always that simple.
"*Robbing Hoody - Clandestine Boat Pleb (U6374)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by LufcGermany (U6066)
posted 8 minutes ago
This is a big thing for the clubs in Europe!..
Why should the so called 10 vote to help clubs in European football earn more money and buy better players!..
No reasons for 3 subs unless you're playing more games, and that's Klopps problem, not the teams that vote against!..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's talking about the health of players, that's it."
So playing more games has nothing to do with it?..
Sign in if you want to comment
Klopp and the 5 sub thing
Page 3 of 5
posted on 18/12/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 18/12/20
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 58 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'd imagine that these smaller teams considered which way to vote and which would most benefit them and their players before voting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which would benefit them? Definitely. Which would benefit their players? Definitely not. Don't come crying back to us when half your team have muscle injuries in February. Facking morons. I see Sheff Utd have made full use of that 3 subs advantage against the big clubs. Facking English dinosaurs embarassing us in front of the world again while pretty much every football association in Europe goes for 5 subs with the insane fixture list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leeds have already had plenty of injuries this season. That's football. You roll with it and you deal with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That doesn't have to be football though you facking philistine. Why are you fine with players having easily avoidable injuries?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point is that I don't think Klopp whining about it has all that much to do with fitness at all, and I still don't think it's Klopp being altruistic and thinking of the benefits for all clubs. It's for the benefit of his club, because you didn't bother to invest in having depth in defense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you know he "didn't bother" investing in his defence? How do you know the club didn't attempt to sign somebody but it didn't come off in the summer because players were unwilling to join to be essentially 4th choice? No evidence to support what you said there at all.
Klopp is of course going to look for an advantage for his own side, but, in turn giving benefit to other sides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And other clubs are of course going to look for an advantage for themselves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So by saying they aren't "gaining" from this previously you've now just gone and said that they are looking to gain an advantage because of it. Make your mind up.
As I say, it gives benefit to everyone, because no club wants to lose their best players to injuries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They're looking to maintain the status quo that serves as a leveller between clubs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And you're hoping to disrupt the status quo by ensuring enough top players get horrific injuries, you can then hopefully beat the bigger clubs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Injuries happen. Have the infrastructure to deal with them. Don't expect other clubs to kowtow and then get angry and petulant when they don't.
posted on 18/12/20
It is a bit weird that avoiding injuries is seen as an unfair advantage.
posted on 18/12/20
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 58 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'd imagine that these smaller teams considered which way to vote and which would most benefit them and their players before voting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which would benefit them? Definitely. Which would benefit their players? Definitely not. Don't come crying back to us when half your team have muscle injuries in February. Facking morons. I see Sheff Utd have made full use of that 3 subs advantage against the big clubs. Facking English dinosaurs embarassing us in front of the world again while pretty much every football association in Europe goes for 5 subs with the insane fixture list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leeds have already had plenty of injuries this season. That's football. You roll with it and you deal with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That doesn't have to be football though you facking philistine. Why are you fine with players having easily avoidable injuries?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point is that I don't think Klopp whining about it has all that much to do with fitness at all, and I still don't think it's Klopp being altruistic and thinking of the benefits for all clubs. It's for the benefit of his club, because you didn't bother to invest in having depth in defense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you know he "didn't bother" investing in his defence? How do you know the club didn't attempt to sign somebody but it didn't come off in the summer because players were unwilling to join to be essentially 4th choice? No evidence to support what you said there at all.
Klopp is of course going to look for an advantage for his own side, but, in turn giving benefit to other sides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And other clubs are of course going to look for an advantage for themselves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So by saying they aren't "gaining" from this previously you've now just gone and said that they are looking to gain an advantage because of it. Make your mind up.
As I say, it gives benefit to everyone, because no club wants to lose their best players to injuries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They're looking to maintain the status quo that serves as a leveller between clubs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How does it?
Bigger clubs play more games. Must be nice for shiiiite clubs like Sheffield United to not worry about European matches. Tottenham could play something like 17 extra games if they make the EL final FFS.
posted on 18/12/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 18/12/20
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 38 seconds ago
It is a bit weird that avoiding injuries is seen as an unfair advantage.
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Yeah but how many times will subs 4 ans 5 be used for injury avoidance.
Fact is it will not . It just give managers more ability to change games and those with the bigger better squads will be better able to affect games with further subs
posted on 18/12/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 18/12/20
comment by We're Italians, Robert, Whack means somet... (U3979)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 58 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'd imagine that these smaller teams considered which way to vote and which would most benefit them and their players before voting.
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Which would benefit them? Definitely. Which would benefit their players? Definitely not. Don't come crying back to us when half your team have muscle injuries in February. Facking morons. I see Sheff Utd have made full use of that 3 subs advantage against the big clubs. Facking English dinosaurs embarassing us in front of the world again while pretty much every football association in Europe goes for 5 subs with the insane fixture list.
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Leeds have already had plenty of injuries this season. That's football. You roll with it and you deal with it.
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That doesn't have to be football though you facking philistine. Why are you fine with players having easily avoidable injuries?
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My point is that I don't think Klopp whining about it has all that much to do with fitness at all, and I still don't think it's Klopp being altruistic and thinking of the benefits for all clubs. It's for the benefit of his club, because you didn't bother to invest in having depth in defense.
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How do you know he "didn't bother" investing in his defence? How do you know the club didn't attempt to sign somebody but it didn't come off in the summer because players were unwilling to join to be essentially 4th choice? No evidence to support what you said there at all.
Klopp is of course going to look for an advantage for his own side, but, in turn giving benefit to other sides.
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And other clubs are of course going to look for an advantage for themselves.
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So by saying they aren't "gaining" from this previously you've now just gone and said that they are looking to gain an advantage because of it. Make your mind up.
As I say, it gives benefit to everyone, because no club wants to lose their best players to injuries.
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They're looking to maintain the status quo that serves as a leveller between clubs
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How does it?
Bigger clubs play more games. Must be nice for shiiiite clubs like Sheffield United to not worry about European matches. Tottenham could play something like 17 extra games if they make the EL final FFS.
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Liverpool earned +£100 from the UCL.
I am sure Sheff Utds are pretty justified in thinking "suck it up buttercup!"
posted on 18/12/20
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 38 seconds ago
It is a bit weird that avoiding injuries is seen as an unfair advantage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah but how many times will subs 4 ans 5 be used for injury avoidance.
Fact is it will not . It just give managers more ability to change games and those with the bigger better squads will be better able to affect games with further subs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't remember the Chelsea and Arsenal games, but against you and City, Klopp used a total of 1 sub in 2 games. In close games, managers want to keep things the same, not different.
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but the difference would be in other games - 1-1 vs Fulham, 3 subs used I am sure he would have loved to have thrown on a couple more attack minded players to get the win
posted on 18/12/20
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 38 seconds ago
It is a bit weird that avoiding injuries is seen as an unfair advantage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah but how many times will subs 4 ans 5 be used for injury avoidance.
Fact is it will not . It just give managers more ability to change games and those with the bigger better squads will be better able to affect games with further subs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yet Liverpool used zero subs in a game that was level until 91 minutes, and City used just 2 subs in a game that was 1-1 from before half time until the end (even though they had Torres, Mahrez and Silva on the bench and one of their subs was a straight full back swap)
And, as I showed before, even abroad, the Serie A leaders AC Milan only used 3 subs in a game they drew 2-2 with 18th placed Genoa - a game they were 2-1 down from the 60th to 83rd minute and they only used 1 sub in that time.
There is very little evidence to say "big clubs" will chuck on 5 subs in chasing a game, and less to say that would even be successful.
posted on 18/12/20
Spurs are 2nd in the league with 3 subs, Sheffield are bottom on a point with 3 subs, truth is 5 subs would probably have helped Sheffield and the lesser teams more than it would the bigger.
The bigger teams start with their strongest 11 regardless and will usually only make changes during the game if the games won or for tactical reasons. Usually changes weaken their starting 11 as ofc thats usually the strongest team they can field.
Compare it to lower clubs who use a lot of energy as they have less of the ball... having 2 extra subs can be more of a benefit to them.
The reason theyre being selfish is because they dont play in europe they dont go as far in cup comps they dont play as many games and they cling to the hope this will be a disadvantage to the top teams and an advantage to them in the long run but it wont, it isnt, these teams will still be bottom n the top teams will still be at the top.
So disregarding player wellfare is pathetic imo. Only league in europe doing it. This is why the top teams want more power and it could be the end of the money for these teams doing this kind of stuff in the future it really could when the top teams finally have enough n fack off leaving em behind.
posted on 18/12/20
but the difference would be in other games - 1-1 vs Fulham, 3 subs used I am sure he would have loved to have thrown on a couple more attack minded players to get the win
=========
He had Ox, someone called Jake Cain and Nathaniel Phillips to call on.
And he took Salah off.
posted on 18/12/20
Not read the replies but he wants 5 subs because there has been around a 25% increase in muscular injuries.
Close the thread.
posted on 18/12/20
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
but the difference would be in other games - 1-1 vs Fulham, 3 subs used I am sure he would have loved to have thrown on a couple more attack minded players to get the win
=========
He had Ox, someone called Jake Cain and Nathaniel Phillips to call on.
And he took Salah off.
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And I think the other 2 subs were injuries to defenders. So, yeah, I am sure he would have loved to make 2 more.
Equally, I am sure Scott Parker wouldn't have said no to the option of throwing Tom Cairney on, or even Tim Ream to protect the point.
posted on 18/12/20
I get his and Guardiolas logic for wanting it and I don’t think the benefits are for the big clubs.
Personally I’m not a fan of it though. Being able to possibly change half the outfield team just doesn’t feel right to me. I am a Luddite with these kind of things though, admittedly.
posted on 18/12/20
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 14 minutes ago
but the difference would be in other games - 1-1 vs Fulham, 3 subs used I am sure he would have loved to have thrown on a couple more attack minded players to get the win
=========
He had Ox, someone called Jake Cain and Nathaniel Phillips to call on.
And he took Salah off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 18/12/20
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 19 seconds ago
I get his and Guardiolas logic for wanting it and I don’t think the benefits are for the big clubs.
Personally I’m not a fan of it though. Being able to possibly change half the outfield team just doesn’t feel right to me. I am a Luddite with these kind of things though, admittedly.
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In any other season, I'd agree but exceptions should've been made this year.
posted on 18/12/20
I really don't buy this belief that the big clubs would just throw all their attackers on if they're losing just because they can.
Here's a scenario for you. Liverpool have a fully fit squad to choose from. Klopp starts a front 6 of:
Hendo - Fabinho - Thiago
Salah - Firmino - Mane
Liverpool are losing 1-0 in the 60th minute so he subs off Hendo for Jota. Liverpool are still losing 1-0 in the 75th minute so he decides to bring Keita on for Fabinho. Liverpool are still losing 1-0 in the 85th minute so he wants to bring Shaqiri on. Who does he take off that would give us such a massive advantage?
It's not like managers are going to completely sacrifice the shape of the team and sub in 5 attackers just because they're losing.
posted on 18/12/20
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by We're Italians, Robert, Whack means somet... (U3979)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 58 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'd imagine that these smaller teams considered which way to vote and which would most benefit them and their players before voting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which would benefit them? Definitely. Which would benefit their players? Definitely not. Don't come crying back to us when half your team have muscle injuries in February. Facking morons. I see Sheff Utd have made full use of that 3 subs advantage against the big clubs. Facking English dinosaurs embarassing us in front of the world again while pretty much every football association in Europe goes for 5 subs with the insane fixture list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leeds have already had plenty of injuries this season. That's football. You roll with it and you deal with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That doesn't have to be football though you facking philistine. Why are you fine with players having easily avoidable injuries?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point is that I don't think Klopp whining about it has all that much to do with fitness at all, and I still don't think it's Klopp being altruistic and thinking of the benefits for all clubs. It's for the benefit of his club, because you didn't bother to invest in having depth in defense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you know he "didn't bother" investing in his defence? How do you know the club didn't attempt to sign somebody but it didn't come off in the summer because players were unwilling to join to be essentially 4th choice? No evidence to support what you said there at all.
Klopp is of course going to look for an advantage for his own side, but, in turn giving benefit to other sides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And other clubs are of course going to look for an advantage for themselves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So by saying they aren't "gaining" from this previously you've now just gone and said that they are looking to gain an advantage because of it. Make your mind up.
As I say, it gives benefit to everyone, because no club wants to lose their best players to injuries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They're looking to maintain the status quo that serves as a leveller between clubs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How does it?
Bigger clubs play more games. Must be nice for shiiiite clubs like Sheffield United to not worry about European matches. Tottenham could play something like 17 extra games if they make the EL final FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Liverpool earned +£100 from the UCL.
I am sure Sheff Utds are pretty justified in thinking "suck it up buttercup!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And how does that money help injuries exactly?
posted on 18/12/20
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 3 seconds ago
I really don't buy this belief that the big clubs would just throw all their attackers on if they're losing just because they can.
Here's a scenario for you. Liverpool have a fully fit squad to choose from. Klopp starts a front 6 of:
Hendo - Fabinho - Thiago
Salah - Firmino - Mane
Liverpool are losing 1-0 in the 60th minute so he subs off Hendo for Jota. Liverpool are still losing 1-0 in the 75th minute so he decides to bring Keita on for Fabinho. Liverpool are still losing 1-0 in the 85th minute so he wants to bring Shaqiri on. Who does he take off that would give us such a massive advantage?
It's not like managers are going to completely sacrifice the shape of the team and sub in 5 attackers just because they're losing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some idiots think FIFA is real life.
posted on 18/12/20
This is a big thing for the clubs in Europe!..
Why should the so called 10 vote to help clubs in European football earn more money and buy better players!..
No reasons for 3 subs unless you're playing more games, and that's Klopps problem, not the teams that vote against!..
posted on 18/12/20
comment by LufcGermany (U6066)
posted 8 minutes ago
This is a big thing for the clubs in Europe!..
Why should the so called 10 vote to help clubs in European football earn more money and buy better players!..
No reasons for 3 subs unless you're playing more games, and that's Klopps problem, not the teams that vote against!..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's talking about the health of players, that's it.
posted on 18/12/20
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 24 seconds ago
The smaller teams just want to gain an artificial advantage over the bigger teams with "better" squad depth because that's how they believe they'd be able to compete against these clubs.
As has been established, every club has their best players they'd rather not lose, if you've made all 3 subs and your best player goes down to a hamstring injury for 3-4 weeks because of the amount of intense games over a short period of time, then I'd say they'd be the first one's moaning.
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The smaller clubs aren't "gaining" any advantage by keeping the laws of the game as they are.
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Conclusively, you can never prove this.
But everybody knows if somebody has 1/2 key players missing for a particular fixture, that puts you at a disadvantage of getting the best possible result.
So I'd put a good bet on the sides at the bottom believing they "gain an advantage" by the injuries that the top teams sustain.
Your Salah's, De Bryune's Kane's etc will be playing every game, every week. With the state of the current season, the likelihood is if there fitness, health and wellbeing is mismanaged due to fixture congestion, they will get injured for a length of time. Not seeing any of the 3 players I've mentioned on a teamsheet would give a massive boost to any side at the bottom.
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Don't play them every game every week then. That's what rotation is for. If Klopp decides to play Salah in a meaningless CL game and he gets injured then that's on him.
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Who else does he play then? Who else does he have available to him? He has to select a Champions League squad so unfortunately he can't just play who he wants like he can in the league, hence why they have played.
The youngsters might not have even been fit to play for all we know, we don't know the conversations that went on between the medical team and the coaching staff.
posted on 18/12/20
comment by We're Italians, Robert, Whack means something else to us (U3979)
posted 42 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by We're Italians, Robert, Whack means somet... (U3979)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 58 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'd imagine that these smaller teams considered which way to vote and which would most benefit them and their players before voting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which would benefit them? Definitely. Which would benefit their players? Definitely not. Don't come crying back to us when half your team have muscle injuries in February. Facking morons. I see Sheff Utd have made full use of that 3 subs advantage against the big clubs. Facking English dinosaurs embarassing us in front of the world again while pretty much every football association in Europe goes for 5 subs with the insane fixture list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leeds have already had plenty of injuries this season. That's football. You roll with it and you deal with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That doesn't have to be football though you facking philistine. Why are you fine with players having easily avoidable injuries?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point is that I don't think Klopp whining about it has all that much to do with fitness at all, and I still don't think it's Klopp being altruistic and thinking of the benefits for all clubs. It's for the benefit of his club, because you didn't bother to invest in having depth in defense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you know he "didn't bother" investing in his defence? How do you know the club didn't attempt to sign somebody but it didn't come off in the summer because players were unwilling to join to be essentially 4th choice? No evidence to support what you said there at all.
Klopp is of course going to look for an advantage for his own side, but, in turn giving benefit to other sides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And other clubs are of course going to look for an advantage for themselves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So by saying they aren't "gaining" from this previously you've now just gone and said that they are looking to gain an advantage because of it. Make your mind up.
As I say, it gives benefit to everyone, because no club wants to lose their best players to injuries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They're looking to maintain the status quo that serves as a leveller between clubs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How does it?
Bigger clubs play more games. Must be nice for shiiiite clubs like Sheffield United to not worry about European matches. Tottenham could play something like 17 extra games if they make the EL final FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Liverpool earned +£100 from the UCL.
I am sure Sheff Utds are pretty justified in thinking "suck it up buttercup!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And how does that money help injuries exactly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what people do not understand, just because so much was earned through the CL, doesn't mean you can spend that much.
Clubs have wage structures to follow which make them successful, like Spurs and Liverpool in recent times. There is then the factor of if players are willing to join to be 4th choice.
As someone has said above, people think it's just a game of Fifa 21 where you can buy whoever you want and they virtually automatically join, it's not always that simple.
posted on 18/12/20
"*Robbing Hoody - Clandestine Boat Pleb (U6374)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by LufcGermany (U6066)
posted 8 minutes ago
This is a big thing for the clubs in Europe!..
Why should the so called 10 vote to help clubs in European football earn more money and buy better players!..
No reasons for 3 subs unless you're playing more games, and that's Klopps problem, not the teams that vote against!..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's talking about the health of players, that's it."
So playing more games has nothing to do with it?..
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