And how else it it meant to work whilst waiting for the breakthrough?
======
You make them #2 and give them opportunities when the current #1 and #2 are not performing.
======
You keep em whilst you're waiting, if a loan club gives a good enough offer you sell em and say good luck, if not you keep them as No.2 cos their decent enough.
======
Kind of the point, he was never seen as decent enough as #2 under Wenger.
======
I think the issue there is that Wenger never was a 3 at the back manager so Emi wasn't as impressive for him or just hadn't become so yet
=======
Fack me, what is this BS??? The lad is playing with a back 4 at Villa. The few times he did get to play for Arsenal under Wenger he did well (except the Reading game really).
=====
This is about Areta selling the keeper more fit for purpose, not a Wenger trait, he knew who his best players were pretty much at all times.
=======
Almunia was our #1 for an age. Szczesny, Fabianski, Mannone, Ospina were all sharing the position for ages. Cech, old, past it and building his retirement fund, was our keeper for an age. Wenger never really had a clue on who his best keeper was - yet it was never Emi, not even second best.
So, after taking the time to read that nonsense, I come to two questions. How does any of that really have anything to do with what it was a reply to (it does more to back up my point) and how is it a slap down
comment by WB2 (Emery'll Get Me Killed) (U8276)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 22 seconds ago
Imagine Wenger giving anyone flak for Emi when he ignored Emi for the best part of a decade and also let Szczesny go in favour of signing a very past it Petr Cech, despite Szczesny excelling on loan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He also kept Emi for decade hoping he would have a breakthrough like he did last season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hoping one of his loan clubs would buy him, more like. Wenger never even gave Emi the #2 role, never mind waiting for a breakthrough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And how else it it meant to work whilst waiting for the breakthrough? You keep em whilst you're waiting, if a loan club gives a good enough offer you sell em and say good luck, if not you keep them as No.2 cos their decent enough. You don't just flog em for the sake of it. And it doesn't mean you've scrap-heaped em either. I think the issue there is that Wenger never was a 3 at the back manager so Emi wasn't as impressive for him or just hadn't become so yet. But I think we all know that had Emi shone in a 3 over Leno and Wenger had been going with a 3. He was smart enough to have Emi. This is about Areta selling the keeper more fit for purpose, not a Wenger trait, he knew who his best players were pretty much at all times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easy to know your best team when you're manager for 20+ years and you've bought every player, this is where I have sympathy with Arteta. He takes over a no win situation with Ozil for example, takes the decision to dump him and that creates unrest from players he's friendly with. Same thing with all the deadwood, surplus and out of contract players who know they're on the way out as soon as we can be shot of them, I doubt they're that committed or create a great atmosphere around the club right now. So it's hard to judge Arteta's true ability or see what he really wants to do working with this lot.
Endless comments. Who is going to read that ffs?
comment by Lexington 125.2 - Give Reiss A Chance (U8879)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Lexington 125.2 - Give Reiss A Chance (U8879)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Lexington 125.2 - Give Reiss A Chance (U8879)
posted 1 second ago
He neither developed, trusted or sold Martinez.
He kept him around for the reasons previously stated - as a good trainer, someone who wouldn’t kick up a fuss, happy to go out on loan if and when the club remembered to do something with him, cheap, cheap, cheap.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because Wenger told Bob Wilson that this why he is keeping Emi around and not because he believed there was player in there. OK.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope, Wenger told Wilson he believed Martinez was capable to becoming Arsenal no 1.
Which is why he played him as such exactly ZERO times, and replaced Szczęsny with an OAP.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why is it so hard to believe that goalkeepers mature at an older age and Wenger always had the belief that Emi could make it. Thats exactly what Wenger says now btw.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course that’s what he’s saying now!
And hang on, weren’t you wanting us to sign Donnarumma (21) from Milan last summer?!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes . cause I have seen how bad Runar is and Leno has never convinced me in the air. But he is an exceptional talent at a young age. I think he could be a Buffon when he gets older with that level of talent already. He is the exception to the rule.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 9 minutes ago
And how else it it meant to work whilst waiting for the breakthrough?
======
You make them #2 and give them opportunities when the current #1 and #2 are not performing.
======
You keep em whilst you're waiting, if a loan club gives a good enough offer you sell em and say good luck, if not you keep them as No.2 cos their decent enough.
======
Kind of the point, he was never seen as decent enough as #2 under Wenger.
======
I think the issue there is that Wenger never was a 3 at the back manager so Emi wasn't as impressive for him or just hadn't become so yet
=======
Fack me, what is this BS??? The lad is playing with a back 4 at Villa. The few times he did get to play for Arsenal under Wenger he did well (except the Reading game really).
=====
This is about Areta selling the keeper more fit for purpose, not a Wenger trait, he knew who his best players were pretty much at all times.
=======
Almunia was our #1 for an age. Szczesny, Fabianski, Mannone, Ospina were all sharing the position for ages. Cech, old, past it and building his retirement fund, was our keeper for an age. Wenger never really had a clue on who his best keeper was - yet it was never Emi, not even second best.
So, after taking the time to read that nonsense, I come to two questions. How does any of that really have anything to do with what it was a reply to (it does more to back up my point) and how is it a slap down
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because it's entirely possible that he loaned Emi simply because he wanted him playing week in week out. Doesn't mean he decided he'd given up on him as you're making out. What we know of Wenger's style of doing things, suggests he'd quite happily keep a young goalie he wasn't quite set on for his current 1st 11 but not yet ruling him out of contention entirely. for years
Also the simple formation difference. Perhaps he just knew Emi was better in a 3 and Leno a 4 so loaned Emi, with a view to seeing if his 4 skills developed elsewhere. He just wasn't the write a still young player off type and for a keeper Emi was still young. Plus cheap as chips wages-wise. Good reasons for repeated loan. Particularly when you see what he's become as a result.
So not all 'goalkeepers mature at an older age' then.
Perhaps just the ones that don't fit with your argument?
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 17 minutes ago
Endless comments. Who is going to read that ffs?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just read it all, started off quite well for the first 3-4 pages. By the end I had to check what the OP was again
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 15 minutes ago
Endless comments. Who is going to read that ffs?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gt it's called discussing a point that is not only to do with just way the player was recruited, treated, and being coached, but also leading to a more general discussion about the absolutely ridiculous way the club is being run.
I mean, yeah sure, 200+ comments about a player none of us have seen play in an Arsenal shirt? Sure, sign me up for that article right now!
But when he wasn't on loan he wasn't #2. How is he meant to get a breakthrough when he is either on loan (often as a #2) or down the pecking order?
=============
What we know of Wenger's style of doing things, suggests he'd quite happily keep a young goalie he wasn't quite set on for his current 1st 11 but not yet ruling him out of contention entirely. for years
============
What keeper who he fancied did Wenger keep for years without giving them a chance? Szczesny, Fabianski and Mannone all got games at a young age. Literally the only keeper you can force that claim on is Emi, and you can only do that by twisting the truth a lot.
Keepers aren't dependent on the formation in front of them, unless the formation is so defensive because the manager doesn't trust the keeper. If Emi can only play with a 3 man defence then he is facking useless (he is playing with a 4 at Villa though, showing your theory is ridiculous).
Keepers aren't dependent on the formation in front of them, unless the formation is so defensive because the manager doesn't trust the keeper. If Emi can only play with a 3 man defence then he is facking useless (he is playing with a 4 at Villa though, showing your theory is ridiculous).
----------------------------------------------------------
So what, now a keepr can't learn to do something new/better? FFS DJ that's exactly what player development is, The way Wenger was, we know he had that sort of patience for a player he had faith in. Refusal to just sell Emi is a reflection of Wenger's faith in his ability to become what he has. Not proof he though him crap and just wanted to sell him
I give up with you now anyway. You're just in one of those obtuse moods where you're arguing for the sake of it. You know as well as I do that AW had that kind of long term faith in his youngsters. And that alone is enough to explain Emi's situation. Like everything else you just want to somehow make it Wenger's fault to run interference for the owner.
Imagine criticising Wenger keeping and loaning Emi all that time, given the keeper he's become 3 years afrter Wenger left. Emi's ultimate development has clearly proved Wenger right there. Emery obviously thought he was worth hanging on to as well because he never sold him either did he.
Imagine criticising Wenger keeping and loaning Emi all that time, given the keeper he's become 3 years afrter Wenger left. Emi's ultimate development has clearly proved Wenger right there. Emery obviously thought he was worth hanging on to as well because he never sold him either did he.
======
Yes, imagine seeing what a good keeper Emi is (and I saw it long ago) and not criticising Wenger for never giving a chance as a #2 never mind a run as first choice, and instead keep faith in Ospina as #2, and buy a past it Cech instead of developing Emi into the team.
Emery saw what was being ignored and made him #2, playing him in cup games, and facilitating his breakthrough. Wenger would have done what he had all along and signed another keeper above him as #2.
'Imagine criticising Wenger keeping and loaning Emi all that time, given the keeper he's become 3 years afrter Wenger left.'
A keeper never trusted by a manager, who only made his breakthrough at the club after said manager had left, after having been trusted by the next two guys in charge there, yet the credit for the player he has now become through the responsibility of actually playing first team football should really go to the guy that never trusted him enough to ever give him a go.
This guy's logic is facking amazing
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 hour, 55 minutes ago
Imagine criticising Wenger keeping and loaning Emi all that time, given the keeper he's become 3 years afrter Wenger left. Emi's ultimate development has clearly proved Wenger right there. Emery obviously thought he was worth hanging on to as well because he never sold him either did he.
======
Yes, imagine seeing what a good keeper Emi is (and I saw it long ago) and not criticising Wenger for never giving a chance as a #2 never mind a run as first choice, and instead keep faith in Ospina as #2, and buy a past it Cech instead of developing Emi into the team.
Emery saw what was being ignored and made him #2, playing him in cup games, and facilitating his breakthrough. Wenger would have done what he had all along and signed another keeper above him as #2.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You think.
My point is that Wenger could have sold him plenty of times and since he wasn't exactly renowned for holding out for good money on players, the fact he didn't suggests he was always keeping him to be integrated into the 1st team at some point. Or he'd have just gotten shot now wouldn't he.
he wasn't exactly renowned for holding out for good money on players,
====
There was never any good money on offer for him.
Reports from France suggesting Saliba is heading to Nice for the remaining of the season.
No option to buy.... fortunately (I guess )
comment by Lexington 125.2 - Give Reiss A Chance (U8879)
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
'Imagine criticising Wenger keeping and loaning Emi all that time, given the keeper he's become 3 years afrter Wenger left.'
A keeper never trusted by a manager, who only made his breakthrough at the club after said manager had left, after having been trusted by the next two guys in charge there, yet the credit for the player he has now become through the responsibility of actually playing first team football should really go to the guy that never trusted him enough to ever give him a go.
This guy's logic is facking amazing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Embarrassing
Sign in if you want to comment
Saliba
Page 9 of 9
6 | 7 | 8 | 9
posted on 2/1/21
And how else it it meant to work whilst waiting for the breakthrough?
======
You make them #2 and give them opportunities when the current #1 and #2 are not performing.
======
You keep em whilst you're waiting, if a loan club gives a good enough offer you sell em and say good luck, if not you keep them as No.2 cos their decent enough.
======
Kind of the point, he was never seen as decent enough as #2 under Wenger.
======
I think the issue there is that Wenger never was a 3 at the back manager so Emi wasn't as impressive for him or just hadn't become so yet
=======
Fack me, what is this BS??? The lad is playing with a back 4 at Villa. The few times he did get to play for Arsenal under Wenger he did well (except the Reading game really).
=====
This is about Areta selling the keeper more fit for purpose, not a Wenger trait, he knew who his best players were pretty much at all times.
=======
Almunia was our #1 for an age. Szczesny, Fabianski, Mannone, Ospina were all sharing the position for ages. Cech, old, past it and building his retirement fund, was our keeper for an age. Wenger never really had a clue on who his best keeper was - yet it was never Emi, not even second best.
So, after taking the time to read that nonsense, I come to two questions. How does any of that really have anything to do with what it was a reply to (it does more to back up my point) and how is it a slap down
posted on 2/1/21
comment by WB2 (Emery'll Get Me Killed) (U8276)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 22 seconds ago
Imagine Wenger giving anyone flak for Emi when he ignored Emi for the best part of a decade and also let Szczesny go in favour of signing a very past it Petr Cech, despite Szczesny excelling on loan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He also kept Emi for decade hoping he would have a breakthrough like he did last season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hoping one of his loan clubs would buy him, more like. Wenger never even gave Emi the #2 role, never mind waiting for a breakthrough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And how else it it meant to work whilst waiting for the breakthrough? You keep em whilst you're waiting, if a loan club gives a good enough offer you sell em and say good luck, if not you keep them as No.2 cos their decent enough. You don't just flog em for the sake of it. And it doesn't mean you've scrap-heaped em either. I think the issue there is that Wenger never was a 3 at the back manager so Emi wasn't as impressive for him or just hadn't become so yet. But I think we all know that had Emi shone in a 3 over Leno and Wenger had been going with a 3. He was smart enough to have Emi. This is about Areta selling the keeper more fit for purpose, not a Wenger trait, he knew who his best players were pretty much at all times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easy to know your best team when you're manager for 20+ years and you've bought every player, this is where I have sympathy with Arteta. He takes over a no win situation with Ozil for example, takes the decision to dump him and that creates unrest from players he's friendly with. Same thing with all the deadwood, surplus and out of contract players who know they're on the way out as soon as we can be shot of them, I doubt they're that committed or create a great atmosphere around the club right now. So it's hard to judge Arteta's true ability or see what he really wants to do working with this lot.
posted on 2/1/21
Endless comments. Who is going to read that ffs?
posted on 2/1/21
comment by Lexington 125.2 - Give Reiss A Chance (U8879)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Lexington 125.2 - Give Reiss A Chance (U8879)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Lexington 125.2 - Give Reiss A Chance (U8879)
posted 1 second ago
He neither developed, trusted or sold Martinez.
He kept him around for the reasons previously stated - as a good trainer, someone who wouldn’t kick up a fuss, happy to go out on loan if and when the club remembered to do something with him, cheap, cheap, cheap.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because Wenger told Bob Wilson that this why he is keeping Emi around and not because he believed there was player in there. OK.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope, Wenger told Wilson he believed Martinez was capable to becoming Arsenal no 1.
Which is why he played him as such exactly ZERO times, and replaced Szczęsny with an OAP.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why is it so hard to believe that goalkeepers mature at an older age and Wenger always had the belief that Emi could make it. Thats exactly what Wenger says now btw.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course that’s what he’s saying now!
And hang on, weren’t you wanting us to sign Donnarumma (21) from Milan last summer?!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes . cause I have seen how bad Runar is and Leno has never convinced me in the air. But he is an exceptional talent at a young age. I think he could be a Buffon when he gets older with that level of talent already. He is the exception to the rule.
posted on 2/1/21
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 9 minutes ago
And how else it it meant to work whilst waiting for the breakthrough?
======
You make them #2 and give them opportunities when the current #1 and #2 are not performing.
======
You keep em whilst you're waiting, if a loan club gives a good enough offer you sell em and say good luck, if not you keep them as No.2 cos their decent enough.
======
Kind of the point, he was never seen as decent enough as #2 under Wenger.
======
I think the issue there is that Wenger never was a 3 at the back manager so Emi wasn't as impressive for him or just hadn't become so yet
=======
Fack me, what is this BS??? The lad is playing with a back 4 at Villa. The few times he did get to play for Arsenal under Wenger he did well (except the Reading game really).
=====
This is about Areta selling the keeper more fit for purpose, not a Wenger trait, he knew who his best players were pretty much at all times.
=======
Almunia was our #1 for an age. Szczesny, Fabianski, Mannone, Ospina were all sharing the position for ages. Cech, old, past it and building his retirement fund, was our keeper for an age. Wenger never really had a clue on who his best keeper was - yet it was never Emi, not even second best.
So, after taking the time to read that nonsense, I come to two questions. How does any of that really have anything to do with what it was a reply to (it does more to back up my point) and how is it a slap down
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because it's entirely possible that he loaned Emi simply because he wanted him playing week in week out. Doesn't mean he decided he'd given up on him as you're making out. What we know of Wenger's style of doing things, suggests he'd quite happily keep a young goalie he wasn't quite set on for his current 1st 11 but not yet ruling him out of contention entirely. for years
Also the simple formation difference. Perhaps he just knew Emi was better in a 3 and Leno a 4 so loaned Emi, with a view to seeing if his 4 skills developed elsewhere. He just wasn't the write a still young player off type and for a keeper Emi was still young. Plus cheap as chips wages-wise. Good reasons for repeated loan. Particularly when you see what he's become as a result.
posted on 2/1/21
So not all 'goalkeepers mature at an older age' then.
Perhaps just the ones that don't fit with your argument?
posted on 2/1/21
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 17 minutes ago
Endless comments. Who is going to read that ffs?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just read it all, started off quite well for the first 3-4 pages. By the end I had to check what the OP was again
posted on 2/1/21
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 15 minutes ago
Endless comments. Who is going to read that ffs?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gt it's called discussing a point that is not only to do with just way the player was recruited, treated, and being coached, but also leading to a more general discussion about the absolutely ridiculous way the club is being run.
I mean, yeah sure, 200+ comments about a player none of us have seen play in an Arsenal shirt? Sure, sign me up for that article right now!
posted on 2/1/21
But when he wasn't on loan he wasn't #2. How is he meant to get a breakthrough when he is either on loan (often as a #2) or down the pecking order?
=============
What we know of Wenger's style of doing things, suggests he'd quite happily keep a young goalie he wasn't quite set on for his current 1st 11 but not yet ruling him out of contention entirely. for years
============
What keeper who he fancied did Wenger keep for years without giving them a chance? Szczesny, Fabianski and Mannone all got games at a young age. Literally the only keeper you can force that claim on is Emi, and you can only do that by twisting the truth a lot.
Keepers aren't dependent on the formation in front of them, unless the formation is so defensive because the manager doesn't trust the keeper. If Emi can only play with a 3 man defence then he is facking useless (he is playing with a 4 at Villa though, showing your theory is ridiculous).
posted on 2/1/21
Keepers aren't dependent on the formation in front of them, unless the formation is so defensive because the manager doesn't trust the keeper. If Emi can only play with a 3 man defence then he is facking useless (he is playing with a 4 at Villa though, showing your theory is ridiculous).
----------------------------------------------------------
So what, now a keepr can't learn to do something new/better? FFS DJ that's exactly what player development is, The way Wenger was, we know he had that sort of patience for a player he had faith in. Refusal to just sell Emi is a reflection of Wenger's faith in his ability to become what he has. Not proof he though him crap and just wanted to sell him
I give up with you now anyway. You're just in one of those obtuse moods where you're arguing for the sake of it. You know as well as I do that AW had that kind of long term faith in his youngsters. And that alone is enough to explain Emi's situation. Like everything else you just want to somehow make it Wenger's fault to run interference for the owner.
Imagine criticising Wenger keeping and loaning Emi all that time, given the keeper he's become 3 years afrter Wenger left. Emi's ultimate development has clearly proved Wenger right there. Emery obviously thought he was worth hanging on to as well because he never sold him either did he.
posted on 2/1/21
Imagine criticising Wenger keeping and loaning Emi all that time, given the keeper he's become 3 years afrter Wenger left. Emi's ultimate development has clearly proved Wenger right there. Emery obviously thought he was worth hanging on to as well because he never sold him either did he.
======
Yes, imagine seeing what a good keeper Emi is (and I saw it long ago) and not criticising Wenger for never giving a chance as a #2 never mind a run as first choice, and instead keep faith in Ospina as #2, and buy a past it Cech instead of developing Emi into the team.
Emery saw what was being ignored and made him #2, playing him in cup games, and facilitating his breakthrough. Wenger would have done what he had all along and signed another keeper above him as #2.
posted on 2/1/21
'Imagine criticising Wenger keeping and loaning Emi all that time, given the keeper he's become 3 years afrter Wenger left.'
A keeper never trusted by a manager, who only made his breakthrough at the club after said manager had left, after having been trusted by the next two guys in charge there, yet the credit for the player he has now become through the responsibility of actually playing first team football should really go to the guy that never trusted him enough to ever give him a go.
This guy's logic is facking amazing
posted on 2/1/21
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 hour, 55 minutes ago
Imagine criticising Wenger keeping and loaning Emi all that time, given the keeper he's become 3 years afrter Wenger left. Emi's ultimate development has clearly proved Wenger right there. Emery obviously thought he was worth hanging on to as well because he never sold him either did he.
======
Yes, imagine seeing what a good keeper Emi is (and I saw it long ago) and not criticising Wenger for never giving a chance as a #2 never mind a run as first choice, and instead keep faith in Ospina as #2, and buy a past it Cech instead of developing Emi into the team.
Emery saw what was being ignored and made him #2, playing him in cup games, and facilitating his breakthrough. Wenger would have done what he had all along and signed another keeper above him as #2.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You think.
My point is that Wenger could have sold him plenty of times and since he wasn't exactly renowned for holding out for good money on players, the fact he didn't suggests he was always keeping him to be integrated into the 1st team at some point. Or he'd have just gotten shot now wouldn't he.
posted on 2/1/21
he wasn't exactly renowned for holding out for good money on players,
====
There was never any good money on offer for him.
posted on 4/1/21
Reports from France suggesting Saliba is heading to Nice for the remaining of the season.
No option to buy.... fortunately (I guess )
posted on 4/1/21
comment by Lexington 125.2 - Give Reiss A Chance (U8879)
posted 1 day, 11 hours ago
'Imagine criticising Wenger keeping and loaning Emi all that time, given the keeper he's become 3 years afrter Wenger left.'
A keeper never trusted by a manager, who only made his breakthrough at the club after said manager had left, after having been trusted by the next two guys in charge there, yet the credit for the player he has now become through the responsibility of actually playing first team football should really go to the guy that never trusted him enough to ever give him a go.
This guy's logic is facking amazing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Embarrassing
Page 9 of 9
6 | 7 | 8 | 9