Good on Zaha, it's clearly become a nothing jesture these days even though where it originally came from created positive action.
Even Zaha doing this has raised the issue more than taking the knee does now.
Good on him standing up (pardon the pun) for his beliefs, and not some FA & media led campaign
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Why is there such apathy towards an article like this? Fair play to Zaha, it's going to take a lot more than a gesture to stamp out racism from our game. Jail the idiots, it has no place in football or society.
their trying too ban us from being white i am being oppressed do white life's not matter soon they will ban us from being straight to.
It was a great campaign initially but it’s gone on far too long on my opinion.
comment by Neo (U9135)
posted 1 minute ago
It was a great campaign initially but it’s gone on far too long on my opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, but understandably there is probably no one at the FA willing to admit it.
They will probably secretly be hoping a few more follow Zaha.
Taking the knee was all about PR for sky and anyone else involved in football
Zaha should feel free to do what he wants. And I certainly don't believe that anyone around the sport should believe that a single gesture or slogan is going to rid football of racism, or represents a sufficient step to indicate that it's being properly addressed.
That said, I broadly welcome taking the knee as something that makes anti-racism mainstream and hard to ignore. Obviously there are well-intentioned people who don't endorse it as a strategy, and it's fine to disagree. But the most consistent hostility to taking the knee seems to come from the anti-anti-racist sections of political discourse. I'm old enough to remember a very similar line taken by the right-wing tabloids in the 1980s when they derided cultural and educational efforts to nurture tolerance around race and sexuality as 'loony left' (which was portrayed with the same cartoonish dishonesty as 'wokeness' is today) and the thing is, I think despite that backlash, that mixture of efforts (slogans, gestures and more substantive programs) had a real impact on social attitudes.
So let everyone feel free to pursue anti-racism whichever way they believe is most effective or whichever way they are most comfortable with. We need the whole array of approaches - gestural, educational, regulatory. But let's recognise all of those different approaches as on the same, right side of history. I'd save the serious critiques for the actual racists.
As uncomfortable as it may be at the start, I definitely agree with Zaha on the matter.
It was an important gesture of solidarity and highlight a very significant issue in our society, but what difference does it make if racial abuse does not stop?
Until social media holds serious accountability, potentially requiring genuine identification to create an account, the world is happy to sit behind their screen and spout their abuse.
I still remember how Darren Gibson was on Twitter a decade ago, for 2 hours before he quit because of the bombardment of abuse.
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 24 minutes ago
Racists should be made to community service for 6 months and if they still are racist, jail time and if that doesn’t help maybe something like ECT to reboot their failed brains
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How about take them out back beat them within an inch of their miserable lives ... I'd certainly love to volunteer for that
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
---
You have such a way with words.
I wish I could write as well as you.
My issue is that many companies and sports authorities jumped on this this to say something but do nothing. And when you see this going in, it renders the action you're doing to highlight an issue feeling like its ben hollowed.
It was an important gesture of solidarity and highlight a very significant issue in our society, but what difference does it make if racial abuse does not stop?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I don't quite follow this logic. Was anyone naive enough to believe that taking the knee would instantly and on its own transform the world? Of course it was never going to do that. Other things need to happen to combat different aspects of racism. It's an ongoing battle with no silver bullets.
It's certainly true that when something becomes familiar it loses some of its power. On the other hand, the repetition of the anti-racist ritual shows a certain persistence, and there's a chance that it keeps the topic on the agenda and plays a small part in encouraging other actions. It's up to those involved to decide whether they feel the gesture is meaningful and whether the persistence vs diminishing returns through familiarity ends up as a net positive.
Either way, I'd rather we (majority white) fans expended any time that's currently going into critiquing the taking of the knee instead on thinking about what else we can do to combat racism.
Wait are we saying that some people do things to be seen to be doing something, rather than actually doing anything genuinely meaningful or productive? Is this a thing? Absolute disgrace if it is.
A player taking the knee doesn't bother me in the slightest but if it makes just one person think it's wrong to be racist or makes one person have the courage to speak out then it's doing something good.
I do get where Zaha is coming from though as I felt similar about the clap for carers. I felt like that about the clapping though because I felt it was hypocritical of the UK government to support it whilst also under-valuing the NHS. Whatever ills football has I believe that it's quite a diverse industry (although more could be done re: managers of course)
comment by Osman Sow (U1734)
posted 12 minutes ago
Wait are we saying that some people do things to be seen to be doing something, rather than actually doing anything genuinely meaningful or productive? Is this a thing? Absolute disgrace if it is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s the disgrace?
People saying it or the thingy what they’re talking about
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 6 minutes ago
A player taking the knee doesn't bother me in the slightest but if it makes just one person think it's wrong to be racist or makes one person have the courage to speak out then it's doing something good.
I do get where Zaha is coming from though as I felt similar about the clap for carers. I felt like that about the clapping though because I felt it was hypocritical of the UK government to support it whilst also under-valuing the NHS. Whatever ills football has I believe that it's quite a diverse industry (although more could be done re: managers of course)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree that taking the knee is a meaningless gesture but do not you DARE say anything bad about clapping for are carers! We were out there every Thursday making a huge difference to the lives of the heroes of are country.
comment by GregOle (U1192)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
---
You have such a way with words.
I wish I could write as well as you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wish I was him.
comment by Geoff Tipps (U1449)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Osman Sow (U1734)
posted 12 minutes ago
Wait are we saying that some people do things to be seen to be doing something, rather than actually doing anything genuinely meaningful or productive? Is this a thing? Absolute disgrace if it is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s the disgrace?
People saying it or the thingy what they’re talking about
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was of the belief that everyone did things genuinely with true belief and meaning, not just to be seen to be doing something to comply with social pressures.
comment by Osman Sow (U1734)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Geoff Tipps (U1449)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Osman Sow (U1734)
posted 12 minutes ago
Wait are we saying that some people do things to be seen to be doing something, rather than actually doing anything genuinely meaningful or productive? Is this a thing? Absolute disgrace if it is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s the disgrace?
People saying it or the thingy what they’re talking about
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was of the belief that everyone did things genuinely with true belief and meaning, not just to be seen to be doing something to comply with social pressures.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes but is the disgrace people saying that people do things to be seen to do something, or is it people doing things to be seen to do something
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I agree with him. All these rascist movements have done is amplify a problem that would slowly go away with the generations. We live in a world nowadays where a lot of morons feel they have to pick sides and black lives matter has polarized opinion.
Sign in if you want to comment
.
Page 1 of 3
posted on 19/2/21
Good on Zaha, it's clearly become a nothing jesture these days even though where it originally came from created positive action.
Even Zaha doing this has raised the issue more than taking the knee does now.
posted on 19/2/21
Good on him standing up (pardon the pun) for his beliefs, and not some FA & media led campaign
posted on 19/2/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 19/2/21
Why is there such apathy towards an article like this? Fair play to Zaha, it's going to take a lot more than a gesture to stamp out racism from our game. Jail the idiots, it has no place in football or society.
posted on 19/2/21
their trying too ban us from being white i am being oppressed do white life's not matter soon they will ban us from being straight to.
posted on 19/2/21
It was a great campaign initially but it’s gone on far too long on my opinion.
posted on 19/2/21
In*
posted on 19/2/21
In*
posted on 19/2/21
comment by Neo (U9135)
posted 1 minute ago
It was a great campaign initially but it’s gone on far too long on my opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, but understandably there is probably no one at the FA willing to admit it.
They will probably secretly be hoping a few more follow Zaha.
posted on 19/2/21
Taking the knee was all about PR for sky and anyone else involved in football
posted on 19/2/21
Zaha should feel free to do what he wants. And I certainly don't believe that anyone around the sport should believe that a single gesture or slogan is going to rid football of racism, or represents a sufficient step to indicate that it's being properly addressed.
That said, I broadly welcome taking the knee as something that makes anti-racism mainstream and hard to ignore. Obviously there are well-intentioned people who don't endorse it as a strategy, and it's fine to disagree. But the most consistent hostility to taking the knee seems to come from the anti-anti-racist sections of political discourse. I'm old enough to remember a very similar line taken by the right-wing tabloids in the 1980s when they derided cultural and educational efforts to nurture tolerance around race and sexuality as 'loony left' (which was portrayed with the same cartoonish dishonesty as 'wokeness' is today) and the thing is, I think despite that backlash, that mixture of efforts (slogans, gestures and more substantive programs) had a real impact on social attitudes.
So let everyone feel free to pursue anti-racism whichever way they believe is most effective or whichever way they are most comfortable with. We need the whole array of approaches - gestural, educational, regulatory. But let's recognise all of those different approaches as on the same, right side of history. I'd save the serious critiques for the actual racists.
posted on 19/2/21
As uncomfortable as it may be at the start, I definitely agree with Zaha on the matter.
It was an important gesture of solidarity and highlight a very significant issue in our society, but what difference does it make if racial abuse does not stop?
Until social media holds serious accountability, potentially requiring genuine identification to create an account, the world is happy to sit behind their screen and spout their abuse.
I still remember how Darren Gibson was on Twitter a decade ago, for 2 hours before he quit because of the bombardment of abuse.
posted on 19/2/21
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 24 minutes ago
Racists should be made to community service for 6 months and if they still are racist, jail time and if that doesn’t help maybe something like ECT to reboot their failed brains
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How about take them out back beat them within an inch of their miserable lives ... I'd certainly love to volunteer for that
posted on 19/2/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
---
You have such a way with words.
I wish I could write as well as you.
posted on 19/2/21
My issue is that many companies and sports authorities jumped on this this to say something but do nothing. And when you see this going in, it renders the action you're doing to highlight an issue feeling like its ben hollowed.
posted on 19/2/21
It was an important gesture of solidarity and highlight a very significant issue in our society, but what difference does it make if racial abuse does not stop?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I don't quite follow this logic. Was anyone naive enough to believe that taking the knee would instantly and on its own transform the world? Of course it was never going to do that. Other things need to happen to combat different aspects of racism. It's an ongoing battle with no silver bullets.
It's certainly true that when something becomes familiar it loses some of its power. On the other hand, the repetition of the anti-racist ritual shows a certain persistence, and there's a chance that it keeps the topic on the agenda and plays a small part in encouraging other actions. It's up to those involved to decide whether they feel the gesture is meaningful and whether the persistence vs diminishing returns through familiarity ends up as a net positive.
Either way, I'd rather we (majority white) fans expended any time that's currently going into critiquing the taking of the knee instead on thinking about what else we can do to combat racism.
posted on 19/2/21
Wait are we saying that some people do things to be seen to be doing something, rather than actually doing anything genuinely meaningful or productive? Is this a thing? Absolute disgrace if it is.
posted on 19/2/21
A player taking the knee doesn't bother me in the slightest but if it makes just one person think it's wrong to be racist or makes one person have the courage to speak out then it's doing something good.
I do get where Zaha is coming from though as I felt similar about the clap for carers. I felt like that about the clapping though because I felt it was hypocritical of the UK government to support it whilst also under-valuing the NHS. Whatever ills football has I believe that it's quite a diverse industry (although more could be done re: managers of course)
posted on 19/2/21
comment by Osman Sow (U1734)
posted 12 minutes ago
Wait are we saying that some people do things to be seen to be doing something, rather than actually doing anything genuinely meaningful or productive? Is this a thing? Absolute disgrace if it is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s the disgrace?
People saying it or the thingy what they’re talking about
posted on 19/2/21
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 6 minutes ago
A player taking the knee doesn't bother me in the slightest but if it makes just one person think it's wrong to be racist or makes one person have the courage to speak out then it's doing something good.
I do get where Zaha is coming from though as I felt similar about the clap for carers. I felt like that about the clapping though because I felt it was hypocritical of the UK government to support it whilst also under-valuing the NHS. Whatever ills football has I believe that it's quite a diverse industry (although more could be done re: managers of course)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree that taking the knee is a meaningless gesture but do not you DARE say anything bad about clapping for are carers! We were out there every Thursday making a huge difference to the lives of the heroes of are country.
posted on 19/2/21
comment by GregOle (U1192)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
---
You have such a way with words.
I wish I could write as well as you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wish I was him.
posted on 19/2/21
comment by Geoff Tipps (U1449)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Osman Sow (U1734)
posted 12 minutes ago
Wait are we saying that some people do things to be seen to be doing something, rather than actually doing anything genuinely meaningful or productive? Is this a thing? Absolute disgrace if it is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s the disgrace?
People saying it or the thingy what they’re talking about
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was of the belief that everyone did things genuinely with true belief and meaning, not just to be seen to be doing something to comply with social pressures.
posted on 19/2/21
comment by Osman Sow (U1734)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Geoff Tipps (U1449)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Osman Sow (U1734)
posted 12 minutes ago
Wait are we saying that some people do things to be seen to be doing something, rather than actually doing anything genuinely meaningful or productive? Is this a thing? Absolute disgrace if it is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s the disgrace?
People saying it or the thingy what they’re talking about
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was of the belief that everyone did things genuinely with true belief and meaning, not just to be seen to be doing something to comply with social pressures.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes but is the disgrace people saying that people do things to be seen to do something, or is it people doing things to be seen to do something
posted on 19/2/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 19/2/21
I agree with him. All these rascist movements have done is amplify a problem that would slowly go away with the generations. We live in a world nowadays where a lot of morons feel they have to pick sides and black lives matter has polarized opinion.
Page 1 of 3