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Time to lay off Levy?

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posted on 2/3/21

Doubt any club will be spending much this summer, Covid has put paid to that. Even the financially doped clubs have taken a massive financial hit during the pandemic, and they will not be able to spend their way out, because they will break FFP Rules. Man City and Chelsea have to be particularly careful, being in last chance saloon with the authorities as far as FFP goes.

posted on 2/3/21

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 2/3/21

I should have been a bit more succinct - I'm not expecting lots of crazy signings post FFP let alone after the covid pandemic. But when did ENIC under Lewis take Spurs over? It was way before the Sheik at Man city, way before Roman Abramovich at Chelsea and way before FFP. ENIC is a poor man's FSG. They have been a shambles since day 1.

posted on 2/3/21

comment by Ace (U22467)
posted 38 seconds ago
It’s more complicated than that, it’s not like Lewis just owns us outright like Abramovic owns Chelsea. We are owned (or at least 85% of our share capital is owned) by ENIC, a British investment firm. Lewis owns about 70% of ENIC while Levy himself owns 30% of it.

We are not owner controlled as such, we are a name on a portfolio, a dot on a ledger.

Personally I’ve praised Levy endlessly for the work he has done to transform this club from bottom half of the table with a rickety old 20th century ground to a CL club with with state of the art training and stadium facilities - without jeopardising the clubs financial position.

The criticism comes from some of the football related decisions. Not even expenditure, as I accepted under Poch we had to break even with player trading to grow the club off the pitch, and since the summer of 2019 the squad has received solid investment. It’s the Jose vanity project and Levys overall meddling of football matters when ultimately he is a bean counter by trade and should have the sense to hire competent football people to grow that side of the club, ie a DoF who can be responsible for ensuring growth of the academy, a better scouting set up, a positive transfer strategy and establishing a footballing identity within the club that informs our recruitment.
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Levy seemed to like the idea of a DOF we have had a few since he's been chairman. Arnesen, comolli etc. Something must have gone badly wrong with the experience as I'm surprised when the stadium build was in full swing and he had all his energy in that he didn't appoint a DOF, the fallout was the lack of signings in 2 windows and ultimately Poch walking.

The long standing rumours of Luis Campos are interesting.

posted on 2/3/21

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 2/3/21

comment by Ace (U22467)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Hezzman (U21558)
posted 12 minutes ago
I should have been a bit more succinct - I'm not expecting lots of crazy signings post FFP let alone after the covid pandemic. But when did ENIC under Lewis take Spurs over? It was way before the Sheik at Man city, way before Roman Abramovich at Chelsea and way before FFP. ENIC is a poor man's FSG. They have been a shambles since day 1.
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Again this isn’t entirely accurate. During the 00’s they actually spent quite heavily on players to try to bolster us into a CL position. The issues they had were, managerial appointments didn’t work out (Hoddle, Santini, Ramos) and as a non CL club bigger clubs were easily able to tempt our best players away (Berbatov, Carrick, Modric etc) which made it hard for us to build over the long term. We have spent more on transfers (gross) than Arsenal since ENIC have taken over.

It was around the turn of the last decade that they realised growth of the club had to be on a more sustainable basis than just throwing money at players in the hope we break into the top 4, and our revenue etc started being channelled into developing an infrastructure that would guarantee our long term future as a big player (training facilities and stadium). The trade off here was that we started spending much less (net) on player trading. We got lucky in appointing Pochettino as he understood the vision and was not only able to work under the model but actually dramatically improve our performance under it and turned us into a CL club with a net spend of £5m per season. In a way he was a victim of his own success as nobody expected us to be where we were at the time the stadium opened - expectations from fans were high but the finances hadn’t caught up.

Demanding different owners is a very sticky wicket. The Abramovics and Sheikhs of the world are the exception, not the rule. ENIC have the clout and infrastructure to keep growing Spurs, they have to get it right at pitch level in the same way they’ve done off-field.
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This is spot on.

posted on 2/3/21

Levy owns a large percentage of the company that owns Spurs, so he is just as much to blame as Lewis.

They are both business men first and football men second, and both are in it for profit before silverware.

When we found ourselves close to glory under Poch, Levy and Lewis had a chance to push the boat out just slightly, to give us a better chance of silverware, but they chose to stand still, and we won fack all.

They are obsessed with growing the club organically and making it successful in that way, unfortunately this has not worked and is unlikely to work in the short term.

Fans are fed up with the ack of proper ambition and fed up waiting for the master plan to come to fruition (will it ever). ENIC have probably taken it as far as they can now, they should sell up to some mega rich owners who have proper ambition. FFP is a nonsense, it is easily worked around, just look at City and Chelsea.

I wonder what ENIC`s plans are, the lack of a stadium sponsor yet is strange, unless of course, nobody is prepared to pay what Levy is asking. There is also the Harry Kane situation, nobody will be surprised if he is sold.

posted on 2/3/21

If Levy wants to do bigger deals but ENIC don't then they should sale the club to a proper chairman.

comment by Spurtle (U1608)

posted on 2/3/21

comment by Ace (U22467)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Hezzman (U21558)
posted 12 minutes ago
I should have been a bit more succinct - I'm not expecting lots of crazy signings post FFP let alone after the covid pandemic. But when did ENIC under Lewis take Spurs over? It was way before the Sheik at Man city, way before Roman Abramovich at Chelsea and way before FFP. ENIC is a poor man's FSG. They have been a shambles since day 1.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Again this isn’t entirely accurate. During the 00’s they actually spent quite heavily on players to try to bolster us into a CL position. The issues they had were, managerial appointments didn’t work out (Hoddle, Santini, Ramos) and as a non CL club bigger clubs were easily able to tempt our best players away (Berbatov, Carrick, Modric etc) which made it hard for us to build over the long term. We have spent more on transfers (gross) than Arsenal since ENIC have taken over.

It was around the turn of the last decade that they realised growth of the club had to be on a more sustainable basis than just throwing money at players in the hope we break into the top 4, and our revenue etc started being channelled into developing an infrastructure that would guarantee our long term future as a big player (training facilities and stadium). The trade off here was that we started spending much less (net) on player trading. We got lucky in appointing Pochettino as he understood the vision and was not only able to work under the model but actually dramatically improve our performance under it and turned us into a CL club with a net spend of £5m per season. In a way he was a victim of his own success as nobody expected us to be where we were at the time the stadium opened - expectations from fans were high but the finances hadn’t caught up.

Demanding different owners is a very sticky wicket. The Abramovics and Sheikhs of the world are the exception, not the rule. ENIC have the clout and infrastructure to keep growing Spurs, they have to get it right at pitch level in the same way they’ve done off-field.
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I would add that we also got lucky with Kane. To have a world class star in your academy is something you don't see very often. He's gone on to become the sort of player we'd never have dreamed of signing.

posted on 2/3/21

Levy has certainly handled the finances of the club very well and that has allowed us to have such fantastic training facilities and a fantastic stadium. BUT, I can't quite let him completely off the hook. His instinct for saving pennies and driving the hardest deals has had a detrimental impact on the playing side. Just one example (and I could give many others) was the Grealish affair. We could easily have signed Grealish a few years ago, but Levy wanted to grind Villa into the ground with his brinkmanship. Well, that back fired and look at what a player Grealish has become and his value has also rocketed.

He's done well, but could do much better. If it was feasible I'd look at changing the chairman rather than the ownership necessarily. However, as it's already been stated, Levy is both a part owner and Chairman, so that's a non starter.

posted on 2/3/21

Net spend doesn’t really mean much in financial terms, it’s just a throw away comment by low-level pundits without a financial understanding as a simple graphic to justify a heavily biased point.

I’m not a Lewis fan. He is a tax dodger and like the OP says cares more about his super yachts than the workers underneath him - people like that are the lowest of the low.

As others have alluded to Levy/ENIC have done a beyond outstanding job off the pitch. To take us from where we were to where we are now financially, in terms of infrastructure and global appeal is a near perfect feat. The mistakes have been on the pitch and I think it’s a lot because Levy gets too close to it all - which is partly his fault but he’s been unlucky with DoFs and having managers who seem to not enjoy that footballing structure. Levy has been too slow with transfers, and more recently not risk adverse enough, the timing in his managerial sackings has been poor despite there being plenty of justification for each sacking & hiring.

posted on 2/3/21

Imagine being sacked because your employer failed to give you the proper tools to do your job properly and to the required standard.

This is Levy, he gives his managers sub standard tools, but still expects the job doing to a high standard. Unless you are some kind of ingenuitive miracle worker, and can over achieve with the tools at your disposal, you are destined to fail.

posted on 2/3/21

How much different would things have been without the pandemic?

63,000 fans every home game spending over £1m every match on food, drink and merchandise.
NFL games bringing in massive revenues including television rights in USA.
Potential for big boxing fights.
Atmosphere boosting players performances.

The above would have been a major factor in any business plans the club had.

posted on 2/3/21

comment by ● Billy The Yidd ● 2020* 2021* (U3924)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
Imagine being sacked because your employer failed to give you the proper tools to do your job properly and to the required standard.

This is Levy, he gives his managers sub standard tools, but still expects the job doing to a high standard. Unless you are some kind of ingenuitive miracle worker, and can over achieve with the tools at your disposal, you are destined to fail.
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Levy did pay Poch well. £8m a year. Well deserved considering the millions Poch helped rake in through qualifying for the CL. Currently paying Jose £12m-£15m a year so if you pay someone that much then you have a right to expecr results.

posted on 2/3/21

comment by LukaBrasi #RentFree Patience - We never forget (U22178)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by ● Billy The Yidd ● 2020* 2021* (U3924)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
Imagine being sacked because your employer failed to give you the proper tools to do your job properly and to the required standard.

This is Levy, he gives his managers sub standard tools, but still expects the job doing to a high standard. Unless you are some kind of ingenuitive miracle worker, and can over achieve with the tools at your disposal, you are destined to fail.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levy did pay Poch well. £8m a year. Well deserved considering the millions Poch helped rake in through qualifying for the CL. Currently paying Jose £12m-£15m a year so if you pay someone that much then you have a right to expecr results.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Not that I agree with Billy’s comment but he was referring to transfer budget that managers had to spend. I don’t think anyone thinks our managers are poorly compensated.

posted on 2/3/21

I appreciate that there is a structure in place and Spurs have done incredibly well over the past 5 years with what they have spent. But it has baffled me that they have been so frugal given the funds available to Lewis.

Probably the best way of running it business-wise but it is also a sports club. Similar could be said of United’s owners (different structure I know) until SAF retired since then as we all know we’ve spent a fortune and credit to the Glazers for doing so.

If I were a Spurs fan, I would be pretty unhappy with it tbh.

Just my two cents from a neutral perspective.

comment by (U22519)

posted on 2/3/21

comment by LukaBrasi #RentFree Patience - We never forget (U22178)
posted 3 hours, 30 minutes ago
comment by ● Billy The Yidd ● 2020* 2021* (U3924)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
Imagine being sacked because your employer failed to give you the proper tools to do your job properly and to the required standard.

This is Levy, he gives his managers sub standard tools, but still expects the job doing to a high standard. Unless you are some kind of ingenuitive miracle worker, and can over achieve with the tools at your disposal, you are destined to fail.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levy did pay Poch well. £8m a year. Well deserved considering the millions Poch helped rake in through qualifying for the CL. Currently paying Jose £12m-£15m a year so if you pay someone that much then you have a right to expecr results.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
King Poch to you

posted on 2/3/21

comment by (U22519)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by LukaBrasi #RentFree Patience - We never forget (U22178)
posted 3 hours, 30 minutes ago
comment by ● Billy The Yidd ● 2020* 2021* (U3924)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
Imagine being sacked because your employer failed to give you the proper tools to do your job properly and to the required standard.

This is Levy, he gives his managers sub standard tools, but still expects the job doing to a high standard. Unless you are some kind of ingenuitive miracle worker, and can over achieve with the tools at your disposal, you are destined to fail.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levy did pay Poch well. £8m a year. Well deserved considering the millions Poch helped rake in through qualifying for the CL. Currently paying Jose £12m-£15m a year so if you pay someone that much then you have a right to expecr results.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
King Poch to you
----------------------------------------------------------------------
#RentFree to you

posted on 2/3/21

"Owner Joe Lewis insists that Levy runs the club sustainably rather than being reliant on his personal fortune."
**************
That's good old Joe for you....
And Harry Kane is thinking about departing too.....
Poor Daniel!

posted on 3/3/21

comment by JustCallMeTed (U21528)
posted 14 hours, 8 minutes ago
"Owner Joe Lewis insists that Levy runs the club sustainably rather than being reliant on his personal fortune."
**************
That's good old Joe for you....
And Harry Kane is thinking about departing too.....
Poor Daniel!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

To be fair that's how it should be - but we've had the ability to spend more than we have without breaking the bank. We've been too frugal at key moments of the squads life cycle

posted on 3/3/21

Ultimately ENIC will look to sell when the time comes that they have had enough and the calf is fat enough for their liking.

What annoys me is that the equity they will achieve will have been vastly inflated by the debt the club has been saddled with and very minimal financial support and investment from them.

In my mind, if the club has to bear all the debt while it remains on the books then the club should be entitled to a share of the profit from any sale.

Or perhaps ENIC should give some more investment (on the infrastructure side not football, which is allowed) to justify taking all the profit come judgement day.

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