If Pogba is long term committed, and we can go into the summer knowing that, then we need a top level DM to replace Matic instead of playing 2 defensive midfielders every game and Ole needs to stop obsessing over playing 4231 unless he believes Pogba to be the left sided of the 3 long term.
I'm not against him staying if he puts in the effort that we have seen in the last few months. My worry is that we give him a new contract and he lollops around for a year putting in his usual effort, then his big fat agent starts mouthing off again about a move. However, I think that Bruno's effort is both infectious and also has shown Pogba up, which has driven him to improve. So hopefully we will keep his workrate up.
comment by Mike. (U1170)
posted 5 minutes ago
If Pogba is long term committed, and we can go into the summer knowing that, then we need a top level DM to replace Matic instead of playing 2 defensive midfielders every game and Ole needs to stop obsessing over playing 4231 unless he believes Pogba to be the left sided of the 3 long term.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that more importantly we need a top CB so that Ole isn't so worried about protecting the defence.
comment by Mike. (U1170)
posted 8 minutes ago
If Pogba is long term committed, and we can go into the summer knowing that, then we need a top level DM to replace Matic instead of playing 2 defensive midfielders every game and Ole needs to stop obsessing over playing 4231 unless he believes Pogba to be the left sided of the 3 long term.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100%
It's great news imho, but we need to back it up with a new CM and/or system change. It was starting to come together, but a top class holding CM will really elevate our midfield, with Pogba and Bruno.
Pogba has started in five of the league games against the big six so far this season, including the two losses against Spurs and Arsenal.
Interestingly, those were the two games in which he started in midfield rather than an inside forward role. He played in the double pivot in the battering by Spurs and a diamond in the loss to Arsenal. We scored one goal in those two games.
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Mike. (U1170)
posted 5 minutes ago
If Pogba is long term committed, and we can go into the summer knowing that, then we need a top level DM to replace Matic instead of playing 2 defensive midfielders every game and Ole needs to stop obsessing over playing 4231 unless he believes Pogba to be the left sided of the 3 long term.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that more importantly we need a top CB so that Ole isn't so worried about protecting the defence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, we do need a top CB.
But we also need the coaching staff to sort out our defending as a unit. And by unit, I don’t mean the back five. I mean from the front back.
Who is the DM though?
We really need a Kante of 4 years ago.
When Leicester bottle the top 4 again start rumours in the press we're after Ndidi, then get our scouts to find out who their scouts are looking at to replace him, and buy him instead.
Also, a top DM isn’t the cure-all for the Pogba midfield question that people might think it is.
You could put a prime Beckenbauer or Makelele next to Pogba, and we’d still need to see serious defensive discipline and competence from him in the double pivot.
There isn’t a single PL side that plays with a double pivot including one attacking midfielder with licence to roam where he wants and without serious defensive commitments. It just wouldn’t cut the mustard in modern top flight football.
The alternative is changing the system. But then we’re back to the conversation about squeezing the most out of the best number ten on the surface of the planet right now.
If we went 4-3-3, with Bruno pulled back into midfield, we’d still need at least one or both of Pogba and Bruno box-to-box. Look how hard the likes of de Bruyne and Bernardo work off the ball for Pep. They break their facking ballacks every time they’re selected to play at eight.
I think the bottom line is that if Pogba wants to play in midfield against the top sides, he has to demonstrate that he can be trusted to do the job: he has to use his head, he has to focus and stay switched on, he has to put a big shift in, every time he’s selected.
Otherwise, he’s playing in midfield against the bottom half, or in the inside forward role that Ole has started using him in from time to time.
comment by Mike. (U1170)
posted 32 minutes ago
When Leicester bottle the top 4 again start rumours in the press we're after Ndidi, then get our scouts to find out who their scouts are looking at to replace him, and buy him instead.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So obvious
Can't believe Ole hasn't been doing this already. Amateur.
Am I going to be the downer and suggest maybe we do not keep him? Pogba's attention to defence is borderline criminal sometimes. He is mercurial but what we really need is someone to give us a steady 7/10. We have Rashford and Bruno who give us 9/10, then sometimes they give us 4/10. The reason we play McFred so much is because they are known quantity. Steady 6.5/10 from both of them serves us so much more than players with so much fluctuating form.
Sell him and get Grealish or a Declan Rice, someone who will give us a steady 7/10 all season would serve us a lot more.
What I am sure of is whatever led to his change of mind, its not because he really wants to play for us. It has a lot more to do with a lack of transfer options because of how Covid has affected club finances. I do not want players like that.
My first reaction to this story is that Pogba's agent is looking with characteristic realism at the deflationary football market. There's more money to be generated by extending Pogba's United contract - and the sooner the better.
good to see the usual levels of enthusiasm for the news that one of our best players may be staying at the club.
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 13 minutes ago
good to see the usual levels of enthusiasm for the news that one of our best players may be staying at the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is he??
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 13 minutes ago
good to see the usual levels of enthusiasm for the news that one of our best players may be staying at the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is he??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yes, he is. you didn't notice for instance that for the 2 months before getting injured every time he shared the pitch with bruno he was the better player? i mean, not consistently, but every single time?
and as for being a defensive liability, knock yourself out and go and look at some stats, they may surprise you (eg more successful tackles this season than matic or mctominay, more clearances than fred or matic, and more total defensive involvement than any of our other midfielders, mainly because he is excellent in the air)
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 14 minutes ago
My first reaction to this story is that Pogba's agent is looking with characteristic realism at the deflationary football market. There's more money to be generated by extending Pogba's United contract - and the sooner the better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is cynical but probably where my bet would be placed.
Pogba and his agent have shown time and time again that they don’t give a fk about United. Yes Rooney did similar but he gave 100% on the pitch 100% of the time. We cannot say that for Pogba.
It’s a really tough one, last few months have shown again what he can do but will it last?
I’d say if a suitable replacement is possible then I’d sell him but if we can’t find someone suitable then we might as well extend but for no more money obviously.
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 13 minutes ago
good to see the usual levels of enthusiasm for the news that one of our best players may be staying at the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is he??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yes, he is. you didn't notice for instance that for the 2 months before getting injured every time he shared the pitch with bruno he was the better player? i mean, not consistently, but every single time?
and as for being a defensive liability, knock yourself out and go and look at some stats, they may surprise you (eg more successful tackles this season than matic or mctominay, more clearances than fred or matic, and more total defensive involvement than any of our other midfielders, mainly because he is excellent in the air)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is highly selective thinking. I can think of 2 games where he was distinctively average and led to penalties, fouls that led to a loss. Bruno's poor game is a goal and assist, Pogba's poor game is directly contributing the mistake than leads to a loss.
Pogba has shown his physical presence this season, both on and off the ball. He will always have lapses in concentration but that side of his games much improved this campaign.
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is highly selective thinking. I can think of 2 games where he was distinctively average and led to penalties, fouls that led to a loss. Bruno's poor game is a goal and assist, Pogba's poor game is directly contributing the mistake than leads to a loss.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
presumably those games were early in the season, when he clearly wasn't fit - as both manager and player admitted? i mean, his pass completion rate is usually in the 83-85% range, over those first few matches it was down at 60%, but oddly a) at the time people used that to conclude that he just couldn't be bothered, as opposed to being unfit, and b) even after a sustained run of good form that is brought up as "typical pogba", rather than his more recent performances.
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 51 minutes ago
Am I going to be the downer and suggest maybe we do not keep him? Pogba's attention to defence is borderline criminal sometimes. He is mercurial but what we really need is someone to give us a steady 7/10. We have Rashford and Bruno who give us 9/10, then sometimes they give us 4/10. The reason we play McFred so much is because they are known quantity. Steady 6.5/10 from both of them serves us so much more than players with so much fluctuating form.
Sell him and get Grealish or a Declan Rice, someone who will give us a steady 7/10 all season would serve us a lot more.
What I am sure of is whatever led to his change of mind, its not because he really wants to play for us. It has a lot more to do with a lack of transfer options because of how Covid has affected club finances. I do not want players like that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn’t you notice how our form dropped since Pogba’s injury? Our midfield looks lamentable.
Fwiw, provided the club and his agent can agree a sensible enough package, I think tying him down to a new contract makes sense whether people want to see him replaced or otherwise.
Personally, I don’t think we should be building anything around him. But he’s a fantastic player in the right role and circumstances, and given that it isn’t a seller’s market and the kind of fee he might have attracted a few years ago isn’t going to materialise in the next 24 months, at least, keep him, and use him when it makes sense to use him. Which isn’t every single week.
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is highly selective thinking. I can think of 2 games where he was distinctively average and led to penalties, fouls that led to a loss. Bruno's poor game is a goal and assist, Pogba's poor game is directly contributing the mistake than leads to a loss.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
presumably those games were early in the season, when he clearly wasn't fit - as both manager and player admitted? i mean, his pass completion rate is usually in the 83-85% range, over those first few matches it was down at 60%, but oddly a) at the time people used that to conclude that he just couldn't be bothered, as opposed to being unfit, and b) even after a sustained run of good form that is brought up as "typical pogba", rather than his more recent performances.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He very clearly wasn’t fit when his season began, which shouldn’t have been a surprise to anyone.
comment by rosso - championing freedom of speech and freedom to refuse to listen since 2013 (U17054)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He very clearly wasn’t fit when his season began, which shouldn’t have been a surprise to anyone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agreed, yet at the time there were posters asking such incisive questions as "does being unfit mean he can't make a 5 yard pass?", and even now people use those games as evidence of him being a "liability", whereas no one judges bailly on his part in spurs' 3rd (?) goal, which for me is one of the worst goals we have conceded in years, and people are more than happy to label him our best defender.
i find the narratives around pogba utterly bizarre, even the beginning of this season it was "he can't play in a 2", despite that being exactly what he did at the end of last season (6W 2D from our last 8 games).
Dropping a hint?
https://twitter.com/paulpogba/status/1366728328061874185
Pogba just tweeted an add with Jadon Sancho saying finally on the same team
Sign in if you want to comment
Pogba
Page 1 of 3
posted on 2/3/21
If Pogba is long term committed, and we can go into the summer knowing that, then we need a top level DM to replace Matic instead of playing 2 defensive midfielders every game and Ole needs to stop obsessing over playing 4231 unless he believes Pogba to be the left sided of the 3 long term.
posted on 2/3/21
I'm not against him staying if he puts in the effort that we have seen in the last few months. My worry is that we give him a new contract and he lollops around for a year putting in his usual effort, then his big fat agent starts mouthing off again about a move. However, I think that Bruno's effort is both infectious and also has shown Pogba up, which has driven him to improve. So hopefully we will keep his workrate up.
posted on 2/3/21
comment by Mike. (U1170)
posted 5 minutes ago
If Pogba is long term committed, and we can go into the summer knowing that, then we need a top level DM to replace Matic instead of playing 2 defensive midfielders every game and Ole needs to stop obsessing over playing 4231 unless he believes Pogba to be the left sided of the 3 long term.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that more importantly we need a top CB so that Ole isn't so worried about protecting the defence.
posted on 2/3/21
comment by Mike. (U1170)
posted 8 minutes ago
If Pogba is long term committed, and we can go into the summer knowing that, then we need a top level DM to replace Matic instead of playing 2 defensive midfielders every game and Ole needs to stop obsessing over playing 4231 unless he believes Pogba to be the left sided of the 3 long term.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100%
It's great news imho, but we need to back it up with a new CM and/or system change. It was starting to come together, but a top class holding CM will really elevate our midfield, with Pogba and Bruno.
posted on 2/3/21
Pogba has started in five of the league games against the big six so far this season, including the two losses against Spurs and Arsenal.
Interestingly, those were the two games in which he started in midfield rather than an inside forward role. He played in the double pivot in the battering by Spurs and a diamond in the loss to Arsenal. We scored one goal in those two games.
posted on 2/3/21
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Mike. (U1170)
posted 5 minutes ago
If Pogba is long term committed, and we can go into the summer knowing that, then we need a top level DM to replace Matic instead of playing 2 defensive midfielders every game and Ole needs to stop obsessing over playing 4231 unless he believes Pogba to be the left sided of the 3 long term.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that more importantly we need a top CB so that Ole isn't so worried about protecting the defence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, we do need a top CB.
But we also need the coaching staff to sort out our defending as a unit. And by unit, I don’t mean the back five. I mean from the front back.
posted on 2/3/21
Who is the DM though?
We really need a Kante of 4 years ago.
posted on 2/3/21
When Leicester bottle the top 4 again start rumours in the press we're after Ndidi, then get our scouts to find out who their scouts are looking at to replace him, and buy him instead.
posted on 2/3/21
Also, a top DM isn’t the cure-all for the Pogba midfield question that people might think it is.
You could put a prime Beckenbauer or Makelele next to Pogba, and we’d still need to see serious defensive discipline and competence from him in the double pivot.
There isn’t a single PL side that plays with a double pivot including one attacking midfielder with licence to roam where he wants and without serious defensive commitments. It just wouldn’t cut the mustard in modern top flight football.
The alternative is changing the system. But then we’re back to the conversation about squeezing the most out of the best number ten on the surface of the planet right now.
If we went 4-3-3, with Bruno pulled back into midfield, we’d still need at least one or both of Pogba and Bruno box-to-box. Look how hard the likes of de Bruyne and Bernardo work off the ball for Pep. They break their facking ballacks every time they’re selected to play at eight.
I think the bottom line is that if Pogba wants to play in midfield against the top sides, he has to demonstrate that he can be trusted to do the job: he has to use his head, he has to focus and stay switched on, he has to put a big shift in, every time he’s selected.
Otherwise, he’s playing in midfield against the bottom half, or in the inside forward role that Ole has started using him in from time to time.
posted on 2/3/21
comment by Mike. (U1170)
posted 32 minutes ago
When Leicester bottle the top 4 again start rumours in the press we're after Ndidi, then get our scouts to find out who their scouts are looking at to replace him, and buy him instead.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So obvious
Can't believe Ole hasn't been doing this already. Amateur.
posted on 2/3/21
Am I going to be the downer and suggest maybe we do not keep him? Pogba's attention to defence is borderline criminal sometimes. He is mercurial but what we really need is someone to give us a steady 7/10. We have Rashford and Bruno who give us 9/10, then sometimes they give us 4/10. The reason we play McFred so much is because they are known quantity. Steady 6.5/10 from both of them serves us so much more than players with so much fluctuating form.
Sell him and get Grealish or a Declan Rice, someone who will give us a steady 7/10 all season would serve us a lot more.
What I am sure of is whatever led to his change of mind, its not because he really wants to play for us. It has a lot more to do with a lack of transfer options because of how Covid has affected club finances. I do not want players like that.
posted on 2/3/21
My first reaction to this story is that Pogba's agent is looking with characteristic realism at the deflationary football market. There's more money to be generated by extending Pogba's United contract - and the sooner the better.
posted on 2/3/21
good to see the usual levels of enthusiasm for the news that one of our best players may be staying at the club.
posted on 2/3/21
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 13 minutes ago
good to see the usual levels of enthusiasm for the news that one of our best players may be staying at the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is he??
posted on 2/3/21
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 13 minutes ago
good to see the usual levels of enthusiasm for the news that one of our best players may be staying at the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is he??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yes, he is. you didn't notice for instance that for the 2 months before getting injured every time he shared the pitch with bruno he was the better player? i mean, not consistently, but every single time?
and as for being a defensive liability, knock yourself out and go and look at some stats, they may surprise you (eg more successful tackles this season than matic or mctominay, more clearances than fred or matic, and more total defensive involvement than any of our other midfielders, mainly because he is excellent in the air)
posted on 2/3/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 14 minutes ago
My first reaction to this story is that Pogba's agent is looking with characteristic realism at the deflationary football market. There's more money to be generated by extending Pogba's United contract - and the sooner the better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is cynical but probably where my bet would be placed.
Pogba and his agent have shown time and time again that they don’t give a fk about United. Yes Rooney did similar but he gave 100% on the pitch 100% of the time. We cannot say that for Pogba.
It’s a really tough one, last few months have shown again what he can do but will it last?
I’d say if a suitable replacement is possible then I’d sell him but if we can’t find someone suitable then we might as well extend but for no more money obviously.
posted on 2/3/21
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 13 minutes ago
good to see the usual levels of enthusiasm for the news that one of our best players may be staying at the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is he??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yes, he is. you didn't notice for instance that for the 2 months before getting injured every time he shared the pitch with bruno he was the better player? i mean, not consistently, but every single time?
and as for being a defensive liability, knock yourself out and go and look at some stats, they may surprise you (eg more successful tackles this season than matic or mctominay, more clearances than fred or matic, and more total defensive involvement than any of our other midfielders, mainly because he is excellent in the air)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is highly selective thinking. I can think of 2 games where he was distinctively average and led to penalties, fouls that led to a loss. Bruno's poor game is a goal and assist, Pogba's poor game is directly contributing the mistake than leads to a loss.
posted on 2/3/21
Pogba has shown his physical presence this season, both on and off the ball. He will always have lapses in concentration but that side of his games much improved this campaign.
posted on 2/3/21
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is highly selective thinking. I can think of 2 games where he was distinctively average and led to penalties, fouls that led to a loss. Bruno's poor game is a goal and assist, Pogba's poor game is directly contributing the mistake than leads to a loss.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
presumably those games were early in the season, when he clearly wasn't fit - as both manager and player admitted? i mean, his pass completion rate is usually in the 83-85% range, over those first few matches it was down at 60%, but oddly a) at the time people used that to conclude that he just couldn't be bothered, as opposed to being unfit, and b) even after a sustained run of good form that is brought up as "typical pogba", rather than his more recent performances.
posted on 2/3/21
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 51 minutes ago
Am I going to be the downer and suggest maybe we do not keep him? Pogba's attention to defence is borderline criminal sometimes. He is mercurial but what we really need is someone to give us a steady 7/10. We have Rashford and Bruno who give us 9/10, then sometimes they give us 4/10. The reason we play McFred so much is because they are known quantity. Steady 6.5/10 from both of them serves us so much more than players with so much fluctuating form.
Sell him and get Grealish or a Declan Rice, someone who will give us a steady 7/10 all season would serve us a lot more.
What I am sure of is whatever led to his change of mind, its not because he really wants to play for us. It has a lot more to do with a lack of transfer options because of how Covid has affected club finances. I do not want players like that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn’t you notice how our form dropped since Pogba’s injury? Our midfield looks lamentable.
posted on 2/3/21
Fwiw, provided the club and his agent can agree a sensible enough package, I think tying him down to a new contract makes sense whether people want to see him replaced or otherwise.
Personally, I don’t think we should be building anything around him. But he’s a fantastic player in the right role and circumstances, and given that it isn’t a seller’s market and the kind of fee he might have attracted a few years ago isn’t going to materialise in the next 24 months, at least, keep him, and use him when it makes sense to use him. Which isn’t every single week.
posted on 2/3/21
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is highly selective thinking. I can think of 2 games where he was distinctively average and led to penalties, fouls that led to a loss. Bruno's poor game is a goal and assist, Pogba's poor game is directly contributing the mistake than leads to a loss.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
presumably those games were early in the season, when he clearly wasn't fit - as both manager and player admitted? i mean, his pass completion rate is usually in the 83-85% range, over those first few matches it was down at 60%, but oddly a) at the time people used that to conclude that he just couldn't be bothered, as opposed to being unfit, and b) even after a sustained run of good form that is brought up as "typical pogba", rather than his more recent performances.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He very clearly wasn’t fit when his season began, which shouldn’t have been a surprise to anyone.
posted on 2/3/21
comment by rosso - championing freedom of speech and freedom to refuse to listen since 2013 (U17054)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He very clearly wasn’t fit when his season began, which shouldn’t have been a surprise to anyone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agreed, yet at the time there were posters asking such incisive questions as "does being unfit mean he can't make a 5 yard pass?", and even now people use those games as evidence of him being a "liability", whereas no one judges bailly on his part in spurs' 3rd (?) goal, which for me is one of the worst goals we have conceded in years, and people are more than happy to label him our best defender.
i find the narratives around pogba utterly bizarre, even the beginning of this season it was "he can't play in a 2", despite that being exactly what he did at the end of last season (6W 2D from our last 8 games).
posted on 2/3/21
Dropping a hint?
https://twitter.com/paulpogba/status/1366728328061874185
posted on 2/3/21
Pogba just tweeted an add with Jadon Sancho saying finally on the same team
Page 1 of 3