comment by My Partially Peeved POV (U10636)
posted 3 hours, 8 minutes ago
On the OP itself, taking everything into account, I think the 1% is pretty paltry. I get that it’s (marginally) above the current rate of inflation, but we’ve already got the warning signs that inflation is more than likely going to increase fairly dramatically over the coming months.
It’s been a difficult year for everyone, but nurses have literally been on the frontline for the past 12 months. They’ve had to step in and take the place for loved ones that weren’t allowed in to support family members at the end of their lives.
The nurses union demanding 12.5% aren’t helping either-there has to be an understanding that there isn’t a bottomless pit and that there’s a lot of people who’ve lost their jobs in the last year.
The starting offer was paltry, and the counter offer is greed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% this.
Also gets away from the fact a third of our nursing is auxiliaries who are Band 2/3 which is peanuts. A 1% increase for them is essentially worthless.
Same for other support staff on similar bands.
Not sure how the average nurses wage is £34k either when they are band 5 which tops out at £30k.
"A lot is made up nurses risking their lives, however that risk is very low."
----------------
There's literally been more healthcare staff die in the past year than servicemen who saw active duty in the past 20 years in Afghanistan.
52000 off sick.
So aye, low risk 🤦♂️
comment by JukeboxJunkie (U10162)
posted 16 minutes ago
"A lot is made up nurses risking their lives, however that risk is very low."
----------------
There's literally been more healthcare staff die in the past year than servicemen who saw active duty in the past 20 years in Afghanistan.
52000 off sick.
So aye, low risk 🤦♂️
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The nurses average salary is widely reported and available online, so if you’re not sure you could just google it.
Your second statement is a meaningless comparison. There’s 1.1m nhs staff, and from what I can see less than 300 covid deaths. So that is 0.02%.
Not sure what the most dangerous jobs are in Scotland but going on the last year being a fisherman is a more risky job.
Obviously being a nurse carries a far greater risk of getting ill - that’s just stating the ridiculously obvious.
Over 10% of nurses off sick, and numbers still rising.
https://www.hsj.co.uk/workforce/one-in-10-hospital-nurses-now-off-work-with-covid-absences-still-rising/7029301.article
850+ NHS staff deaths through Covid in England and Wales.
https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/health/coronavirus/more-850-health-and-social-care-workers-have-died-covid-england-and-wales-pandemic-began-3114202
Which is double the 20 year figure for servicemen killed in Afghanistan.
With many more potentially facing long term sick leave through Long Covid, and half the nursing workforce set to retire in the next decade.. the least we could do is to incentivise it as a career for current and potential future employees.
Instead we lumber them with tens of thousands of pounds in student fees and loans, give no help to pay for anything while a student, and give them a paycut after the most horrific year the NHS has ever faced.
Pretty obvious what the Tories are up to.
That's also not taking into account they were sent in to treat patients who were suffering from a vicious and highly contagious disease with nothing more than bin bags for weeks.
If I were the nursing unions, I'd be suing the Government for unsafe working practices and criminal negligence at work.
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 13 hours, 17 minutes ago
Inflation is less than 1%. I think it is a reasonable proposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Inflation is running much higher than 1% and will only increase further due to the continued expansion of the money supply (true inflation). Govt figures are always always skewed in their favour so in effect this is far from a pay 'rise'.
Listening to the news last night and heard the actual cost of this rise being £500m. I thought it would have been a lot more than that.
From there I’m starting to think that the 3% would have been far more palatable at an extra £1bn. To me in the bigger picture I’ve come round to the idea that at that cost the government may have again massively shot themselves in the foot. No need.
3% would be right but then again they would run the risk of every other public service worker going on strike for the same.
So so difficult.
comment by ...TUX... (U22398)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 13 hours, 17 minutes ago
Inflation is less than 1%. I think it is a reasonable proposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Inflation is running much higher than 1% and will only increase further due to the continued expansion of the money supply (true inflation). Govt figures are always always skewed in their favour so in effect this is far from a pay 'rise'.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Recorded as 0.9% last month
I'm personally of the opinion that rises should be linked to inflation but once again it just makes the Tories look tone deaf, and I'm sure it'll lead to more U-turns from them.
Assuming Johnson stays in post of course. I'm expecting an avalanche of articles about why he should resign after being found guilty of misleading parliament...
I’d calculated it as £228m, ginger.
670k x £34k x 1%
But yes, the real cost is setting the expectation for the whole public sector.
comment by JukeboxJunkie (U10162)
posted 6 hours, 30 minutes ago
Not sure how the average nurses wage is £34k either when they are band 5 which tops out at £30k.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nurses can be up to band 9 >£100k though obviously very rare. Band 5 is just the bog standard staff nurse.
Couldn’t find numbers for the U.K. as a whole but one trust I found showed 45% of nurses at grade 5 or above were actually grade 6 or above.
Google is your friend.
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 42 minutes ago
I'm personally of the opinion that rises should be linked to inflation but once again it just makes the Tories look tone deaf, and I'm sure it'll lead to more U-turns from them.
Assuming Johnson stays in post of course. I'm expecting an avalanche of articles about why he should resign after being found guilty of misleading parliament...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bojo is a hero to the Tories. Lie and deceive then lie again. Let off Cummings and let off Patel. Bojo is proving impossible to shift as he has shown he rules above the law. If nurse want more than 1% they could always get bullied by a government minister and get a £340k payoff 👍
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 41 minutes ago
I’d calculated it as £228m, ginger.
670k x £34k x 1%
But yes, the real cost is setting the expectation for the whole public sector.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was just what was on the news last night is all
If nurses really want more public support, they’d do well to return to the short-skirts and saucy giggles of Barabara Windsor-types in the sixties. Enough of this trousers and trainers nonsense.
Come on ladies, put the bounce back in the NHS.
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 41 minutes ago
I’d calculated it as £228m, ginger.
670k x £34k x 1%
But yes, the real cost is setting the expectation for the whole public sector.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was just what was on the news last night is all
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A fraction of the money frittered away on bogus deals during the pandemic
comment by MaHeed'sNippin aka I’m the competent Wullie Collum (U3633)
posted 57 minutes ago
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 42 minutes ago
I'm personally of the opinion that rises should be linked to inflation but once again it just makes the Tories look tone deaf, and I'm sure it'll lead to more U-turns from them.
Assuming Johnson stays in post of course. I'm expecting an avalanche of articles about why he should resign after being found guilty of misleading parliament...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bojo is a hero to the Tories. Lie and deceive then lie again. Let off Cummings and let off Patel. Bojo is proving impossible to shift as he has shown he rules above the law. If nurse want more than 1% they could always get bullied by a government minister and get a £340k payoff 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's literally Britain's Trump. Yet the number of folk I've encountered who support Johnson yet hate Trump is astonishing.
Good ol' British exceptionalism.
comment by super phoenix rangers - comments on this forum... (U14864)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 41 minutes ago
I’d calculated it as £228m, ginger.
670k x £34k x 1%
But yes, the real cost is setting the expectation for the whole public sector.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was just what was on the news last night is all
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A fraction of the money frittered away on bogus deals during the pandemic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Meh. We can keep on harping on about profligate waste from government through the ages, but let’s not forget the levels of fraud and downright rip offs that were perpetrated by others. They include friends of minsters from other party’s too.
It’s done for now and I hope like many others there is a full day of reckoning and open and very public enquiries. But not until we are really out of this pandemic.
The issue now is how we repay these debts whilst trying to manage a public service and private economy that will take months to recover. I agree 1% is not enough but the danger for everyone including all governments is that you can put your life savings on the next lot clamouring for salary increases will be police, teachers, firemen, and then why not the entire public sector. They are all capable of holding the country to ransom.
And it will happen. You may recall only a month ago the public sector demanding wage increases while millions of private sector workers were laid off or put on furlough. Millions are still in that position.
It’s far too difficult just to separate out one part of the public sector and grate them differently to the rest.
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 41 minutes ago
I’d calculated it as £228m, ginger.
670k x £34k x 1%
But yes, the real cost is setting the expectation for the whole public sector.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was just what was on the news last night is all
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably that commie ch4 news downplaying it to rile up the British Bolsheviks 😂
Already told you how to deal with the debt it's simple.
Create a fake money currency bitpound or britcoin whatever. Get Elon musk to tweet it. Debt paid.
I’d read/heard that the 1% rise would cost £500 million as well-not sure what it was on.
There’s a real concern from what I gather about PTSD in NHS workers once things start to calm down.
Unless they had offered something crazily high there would always be a debate about it being enough. The profile they’ve rightly had over the last year meant that going in with a 1% offer was always going to look crazy.
comment by super phoenix rangers - comments on this forum are not mine but a fictionalised version loosely based on someone similar to me (U14864)
posted 6 minutes ago
Already told you how to deal with the debt it's simple.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SevUK?
comment by PointyBirds (U21890)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by super phoenix rangers - comments on this forum are not mine but a fictionalised version loosely based on someone similar to me (U14864)
posted 6 minutes ago
Already told you how to deal with the debt it's simple.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SevUK?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also an option.
Genuine question though if every country is in similar situation. Then why not a global debt write off?
Sign in if you want to comment
1% pay rise
Page 4 of 5
posted on 6/3/21
comment by My Partially Peeved POV (U10636)
posted 3 hours, 8 minutes ago
On the OP itself, taking everything into account, I think the 1% is pretty paltry. I get that it’s (marginally) above the current rate of inflation, but we’ve already got the warning signs that inflation is more than likely going to increase fairly dramatically over the coming months.
It’s been a difficult year for everyone, but nurses have literally been on the frontline for the past 12 months. They’ve had to step in and take the place for loved ones that weren’t allowed in to support family members at the end of their lives.
The nurses union demanding 12.5% aren’t helping either-there has to be an understanding that there isn’t a bottomless pit and that there’s a lot of people who’ve lost their jobs in the last year.
The starting offer was paltry, and the counter offer is greed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% this.
Also gets away from the fact a third of our nursing is auxiliaries who are Band 2/3 which is peanuts. A 1% increase for them is essentially worthless.
Same for other support staff on similar bands.
posted on 6/3/21
Not sure how the average nurses wage is £34k either when they are band 5 which tops out at £30k.
posted on 6/3/21
"A lot is made up nurses risking their lives, however that risk is very low."
----------------
There's literally been more healthcare staff die in the past year than servicemen who saw active duty in the past 20 years in Afghanistan.
52000 off sick.
So aye, low risk 🤦♂️
posted on 6/3/21
comment by JukeboxJunkie (U10162)
posted 16 minutes ago
"A lot is made up nurses risking their lives, however that risk is very low."
----------------
There's literally been more healthcare staff die in the past year than servicemen who saw active duty in the past 20 years in Afghanistan.
52000 off sick.
So aye, low risk 🤦♂️
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The nurses average salary is widely reported and available online, so if you’re not sure you could just google it.
Your second statement is a meaningless comparison. There’s 1.1m nhs staff, and from what I can see less than 300 covid deaths. So that is 0.02%.
Not sure what the most dangerous jobs are in Scotland but going on the last year being a fisherman is a more risky job.
Obviously being a nurse carries a far greater risk of getting ill - that’s just stating the ridiculously obvious.
posted on 6/3/21
Over 10% of nurses off sick, and numbers still rising.
https://www.hsj.co.uk/workforce/one-in-10-hospital-nurses-now-off-work-with-covid-absences-still-rising/7029301.article
850+ NHS staff deaths through Covid in England and Wales.
https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/health/coronavirus/more-850-health-and-social-care-workers-have-died-covid-england-and-wales-pandemic-began-3114202
Which is double the 20 year figure for servicemen killed in Afghanistan.
With many more potentially facing long term sick leave through Long Covid, and half the nursing workforce set to retire in the next decade.. the least we could do is to incentivise it as a career for current and potential future employees.
Instead we lumber them with tens of thousands of pounds in student fees and loans, give no help to pay for anything while a student, and give them a paycut after the most horrific year the NHS has ever faced.
Pretty obvious what the Tories are up to.
posted on 6/3/21
That's also not taking into account they were sent in to treat patients who were suffering from a vicious and highly contagious disease with nothing more than bin bags for weeks.
If I were the nursing unions, I'd be suing the Government for unsafe working practices and criminal negligence at work.
posted on 6/3/21
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 13 hours, 17 minutes ago
Inflation is less than 1%. I think it is a reasonable proposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Inflation is running much higher than 1% and will only increase further due to the continued expansion of the money supply (true inflation). Govt figures are always always skewed in their favour so in effect this is far from a pay 'rise'.
posted on 6/3/21
Listening to the news last night and heard the actual cost of this rise being £500m. I thought it would have been a lot more than that.
From there I’m starting to think that the 3% would have been far more palatable at an extra £1bn. To me in the bigger picture I’ve come round to the idea that at that cost the government may have again massively shot themselves in the foot. No need.
3% would be right but then again they would run the risk of every other public service worker going on strike for the same.
So so difficult.
posted on 6/3/21
comment by ...TUX... (U22398)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 13 hours, 17 minutes ago
Inflation is less than 1%. I think it is a reasonable proposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Inflation is running much higher than 1% and will only increase further due to the continued expansion of the money supply (true inflation). Govt figures are always always skewed in their favour so in effect this is far from a pay 'rise'.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Recorded as 0.9% last month
posted on 6/3/21
I'm personally of the opinion that rises should be linked to inflation but once again it just makes the Tories look tone deaf, and I'm sure it'll lead to more U-turns from them.
Assuming Johnson stays in post of course. I'm expecting an avalanche of articles about why he should resign after being found guilty of misleading parliament...
posted on 6/3/21
I’d calculated it as £228m, ginger.
670k x £34k x 1%
But yes, the real cost is setting the expectation for the whole public sector.
posted on 6/3/21
comment by JukeboxJunkie (U10162)
posted 6 hours, 30 minutes ago
Not sure how the average nurses wage is £34k either when they are band 5 which tops out at £30k.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nurses can be up to band 9 >£100k though obviously very rare. Band 5 is just the bog standard staff nurse.
Couldn’t find numbers for the U.K. as a whole but one trust I found showed 45% of nurses at grade 5 or above were actually grade 6 or above.
Google is your friend.
posted on 6/3/21
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 42 minutes ago
I'm personally of the opinion that rises should be linked to inflation but once again it just makes the Tories look tone deaf, and I'm sure it'll lead to more U-turns from them.
Assuming Johnson stays in post of course. I'm expecting an avalanche of articles about why he should resign after being found guilty of misleading parliament...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bojo is a hero to the Tories. Lie and deceive then lie again. Let off Cummings and let off Patel. Bojo is proving impossible to shift as he has shown he rules above the law. If nurse want more than 1% they could always get bullied by a government minister and get a £340k payoff 👍
posted on 6/3/21
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 41 minutes ago
I’d calculated it as £228m, ginger.
670k x £34k x 1%
But yes, the real cost is setting the expectation for the whole public sector.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was just what was on the news last night is all
posted on 6/3/21
If nurses really want more public support, they’d do well to return to the short-skirts and saucy giggles of Barabara Windsor-types in the sixties. Enough of this trousers and trainers nonsense.
Come on ladies, put the bounce back in the NHS.
posted on 6/3/21
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 41 minutes ago
I’d calculated it as £228m, ginger.
670k x £34k x 1%
But yes, the real cost is setting the expectation for the whole public sector.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was just what was on the news last night is all
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A fraction of the money frittered away on bogus deals during the pandemic
posted on 6/3/21
comment by MaHeed'sNippin aka I’m the competent Wullie Collum (U3633)
posted 57 minutes ago
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 42 minutes ago
I'm personally of the opinion that rises should be linked to inflation but once again it just makes the Tories look tone deaf, and I'm sure it'll lead to more U-turns from them.
Assuming Johnson stays in post of course. I'm expecting an avalanche of articles about why he should resign after being found guilty of misleading parliament...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bojo is a hero to the Tories. Lie and deceive then lie again. Let off Cummings and let off Patel. Bojo is proving impossible to shift as he has shown he rules above the law. If nurse want more than 1% they could always get bullied by a government minister and get a £340k payoff 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's literally Britain's Trump. Yet the number of folk I've encountered who support Johnson yet hate Trump is astonishing.
Good ol' British exceptionalism.
posted on 6/3/21
comment by super phoenix rangers - comments on this forum... (U14864)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 41 minutes ago
I’d calculated it as £228m, ginger.
670k x £34k x 1%
But yes, the real cost is setting the expectation for the whole public sector.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was just what was on the news last night is all
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A fraction of the money frittered away on bogus deals during the pandemic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Meh. We can keep on harping on about profligate waste from government through the ages, but let’s not forget the levels of fraud and downright rip offs that were perpetrated by others. They include friends of minsters from other party’s too.
It’s done for now and I hope like many others there is a full day of reckoning and open and very public enquiries. But not until we are really out of this pandemic.
The issue now is how we repay these debts whilst trying to manage a public service and private economy that will take months to recover. I agree 1% is not enough but the danger for everyone including all governments is that you can put your life savings on the next lot clamouring for salary increases will be police, teachers, firemen, and then why not the entire public sector. They are all capable of holding the country to ransom.
And it will happen. You may recall only a month ago the public sector demanding wage increases while millions of private sector workers were laid off or put on furlough. Millions are still in that position.
It’s far too difficult just to separate out one part of the public sector and grate them differently to the rest.
posted on 6/3/21
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 41 minutes ago
I’d calculated it as £228m, ginger.
670k x £34k x 1%
But yes, the real cost is setting the expectation for the whole public sector.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was just what was on the news last night is all
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably that commie ch4 news downplaying it to rile up the British Bolsheviks 😂
posted on 6/3/21
Already told you how to deal with the debt it's simple.
Create a fake money currency bitpound or britcoin whatever. Get Elon musk to tweet it. Debt paid.
posted on 6/3/21
I’d read/heard that the 1% rise would cost £500 million as well-not sure what it was on.
There’s a real concern from what I gather about PTSD in NHS workers once things start to calm down.
Unless they had offered something crazily high there would always be a debate about it being enough. The profile they’ve rightly had over the last year meant that going in with a 1% offer was always going to look crazy.
posted on 6/3/21
comment by super phoenix rangers - comments on this forum are not mine but a fictionalised version loosely based on someone similar to me (U14864)
posted 6 minutes ago
Already told you how to deal with the debt it's simple.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SevUK?
posted on 6/3/21
comment by PointyBirds (U21890)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by super phoenix rangers - comments on this forum are not mine but a fictionalised version loosely based on someone similar to me (U14864)
posted 6 minutes ago
Already told you how to deal with the debt it's simple.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SevUK?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also an option.
Genuine question though if every country is in similar situation. Then why not a global debt write off?
posted on 6/3/21
Sends in the cross
posted on 6/3/21
100%
Page 4 of 5