Ah well, much happier after watching that than I have been with most games this season. Hope to see us set up with that for the rest of the season but with Silva for Jose.
Bit of a confrontation at the end with Lingard and somebody
Lingard is a little sh!thouse.
Ironic that one of our better attacking displays sees Neto having one of his worst performances
Lost the game through terrible defending early on. We just don’t have the defenders to play four at the back. Antonio going off was a big factor in the game changing. Wonder what the league positions would be if he had missed three quarters of the season and Raul hadn’t.
Good goal by Fabio that will help him and I would start him ahead of Jose now. And Vitinha looked a live wire when he came on
I think there are things to be positive about there. We played well for the most part, with Fabio Silva, Ait-Nouri and Vitinha all looking good whilst they were on the pitch.
I think Nuno has a decision now. Go back to the three at the back, defend the edge of the box model and grind out points or play that way till the end of the season and try to build something for next season. Personally, I'd prefer the second option. We all know our defensive frailties and hopefully we'll address that in the summer.
I said at the start of the season that I would settle for a lower position if we saw some progress that would make us better off long term. I stand by that and am much more positive about us overall after that game, than I would be if we had got a 0-0 draw through another snoozefest.
Just seen the goals again and four at the back makes no difference to any of them. Allowing players to run that far with the ball through midfield is criminal, Donk for the first one just gives up and let's him plow on.
Seems those blaming four at the back just want us to sit deep keeping bodies back and not try and attack. That is why we look compact, not because we have three or two CBs.
Completely agree Tam, take much more from that game than any 0-0 borefest.
So much for my hunch that we would win but did think there would be goals, nice finish by Fabio, W H pretty decent side even without Rice
I think a fit Podence second half and we probably get something out of that game as well. The two CFs spell didn't really do anything.
comment by Cinciwolf---A top 20 brand in world football (U11551)
posted 3 minutes ago
Just seen the goals again and four at the back makes no difference to any of them. Allowing players to run that far with the ball through midfield is criminal, Donk for the first one just gives up and let's him plow on.
Seems those blaming four at the back just want us to sit deep keeping bodies back and not try and attack. That is why we look compact, not because we have three or two CBs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Donk was trying not to foul for the first goal, in a position where he should absolutely be trying to foul.
If our midfielders and defenders had committed tactical fouls for the first and third goals, both would have been prevented. West Ham would absolutely have committed those fouls were the situations reversed.
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 10 minutes ago
I think there are things to be positive about there. We played well for the most part, with Fabio Silva, Ait-Nouri and Vitinha all looking good whilst they were on the pitch.
I think Nuno has a decision now. Go back to the three at the back, defend the edge of the box model and grind out points or play that way till the end of the season and try to build something for next season. Personally, I'd prefer the second option. We all know our defensive frailties and hopefully we'll address that in the summer.
I said at the start of the season that I would settle for a lower position if we saw some progress that would make us better off long term. I stand by that and am much more positive about us overall after that game, than I would be if we had got a 0-0 draw through another snoozefest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with that. I really enjoyed that game despite losing and has been said we only lost because of woeful defending in the first half.
Having said I agree, I would only persist with a back 4 if it was Semedo, Coady, Boly, Jonny. I think they are the only 4 we have that can make it work. With Jonny gone for the season and Boly out for the next game I just don't see it being any better against Fulham than it was tonight.
I thought Ait-Nouri was good tonight. I'd prefer not to play Saiss there, but I think we should still stick with it if Boly isn't back next game.
Totally agree with the comment about making tactical/ cynical fouls, much as it pains me to say it and yes they sure would have done had the roles been reversed
Oh dear Ding1e5...... 🤣
Have the wheels come off the D1ngle5 bus as the Mighty Baggieman predicted?
Slipping down the league table I notice Ding1e5 ?
Are yowm being dragged into a relegation battle Ding1e5?
comment by Cinciwolf---A top 20 brand in world football (U11551)
posted 5 minutes ago
Just seen the goals again and four at the back makes no difference to any of them. Allowing players to run that far with the ball through midfield is criminal, Donk for the first one just gives up and let's him plow on.
Seems those blaming four at the back just want us to sit deep keeping bodies back and not try and attack. That is why we look compact, not because we have three or two CBs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The issue is that our defenders, Coady and Saiss in particular, aren't big solid CBs that work together as a unit, they need cover either side of them, they channel runners in to areas where they can be crowded out but get them one on one with space either side and they're screwed, they don't like being the last man. They defend a bit like midfielders which works OK in a three but not with two as we've seen too many times now.
We all want to see more attacking play in the vein of yesterday's game but not at the price of conceding 3 goals in a half. The three CB plus wing backs served us well, gave us extra attacking threats plus cover against breaks. The issue this season has been that the squad is weaker, Semedo hasn't performed to the consistent standards we enjoyed from Doherty and neither has Ait Nouri compared with Jonny. (Although I did think he had a solid game last night). It's certainly not a case of if you're an advocate of a back 3 then you necessarily
want safety first football, far from it.
It looked to me that we played with only two in the middle with wing backs. If Donk was to be the other defender, he was all over the place. It seemed that only Neves played in the midfield with the three attackers in front of him and Jose in front of them. We totally surrendered midfield and we were lucky that West Ham did not score more.
It looked great going forward, but as mentioned our two defenders were all over the place.
To be fair, at the end of the game I thought we deserved a draw.
I do think yesterday in the first half an hour or so was the most open we have looked defensively under Nuno. I think we have to be grateful that Antonio went off injured because up to that point then a 4 or 5 goal hammering looked a distinct possibility.
Saiss and Coady are just not strong enough centre backs to play in a back four. When players run at them or turn them they are left wanting. Neither are good enough midfielders to play in the premier league there so to me they either play in a back three or not at all. Semedo also always looks to have a mistake in him when he plays in a back four. And there seems to be positive vibes on how Ait Nouri played last night. Personally I didn’t see anything different from him to what we already know. I don’t recall him doing any good defensive work but when he got on the ball in the opponents half he did some good work.
As an attacking team I can see the positives of a 4231 with the players we have and we played some good stuff at times. Even Jose got some scoring chances. But we just don’t have the defenders to set up this way at the moment, particularly without Boly and Jonny. Even poor teams like Albion and Brighton have got three against us playing this way, and you won’t win many games after conceding 3.
Other positives last night were the cameos of Fabio and Vitinha who both look to me like players we can be confident about for the future.
But let’s leave a 4 man back line until we have signed one or two more top defenders suited to playing that way
I fail to see how a different formation would have led to a different outcome in any of their goals last night? Can someone explain it to me?
The problem last night was really poor defending, not the way they were set up.
As an interesting stat -
In 18/19 we conceded 46 goals, the 4th best defensive record in the league
In 19/20 we conceded 40 goals, the 4th best defensive record in the league
In 20/21 we have played 20 games with 3 at the back and conceded 21. An average of just over 1 a game, the 2nd best defensive record in the league
In 20/21 we have played 10 games with 4 at the back and conceded 20. An average of 2 a game. The worst defensive record in the league.
2 points from our last 5 matches.
comment by Spangles (U17289)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
As an interesting stat -
In 18/19 we conceded 46 goals, the 4th best defensive record in the league
In 19/20 we conceded 40 goals, the 4th best defensive record in the league
In 20/21 we have played 20 games with 3 at the back and conceded 21. An average of just over 1 a game, the 2nd best defensive record in the league
In 20/21 we have played 10 games with 4 at the back and conceded 20. An average of 2 a game. The worst defensive record in the league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
back four or back five would have made little difference - The donk plays CM or CB in either formation he watched Messi Lingard dance past him
When we were talking some months ago about changing from a 3 to a 4 I said then that we dont have the goals in our forward play to justify it.
We are best as a defensive minded counter attacking team.
comment by Huge Richard (U8869)
posted 1 minute ago
When we were talking some months ago about changing from a 3 to a 4 I said then that we dont have the goals in our forward play to justify it.
We are best as a defensive minded counter attacking team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
we carved out a lot of chances last night but if our spine wasn't so soft and we had more Italians/Argies/Germans in it that understand how to take a man out on halfway we'd have only conceded the 1 goal
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posted on 5/4/21
Ah well, much happier after watching that than I have been with most games this season. Hope to see us set up with that for the rest of the season but with Silva for Jose.
posted on 5/4/21
Bit of a confrontation at the end with Lingard and somebody
posted on 5/4/21
Lingard is a little sh!thouse.
posted on 5/4/21
Ironic that one of our better attacking displays sees Neto having one of his worst performances
posted on 5/4/21
Lost the game through terrible defending early on. We just don’t have the defenders to play four at the back. Antonio going off was a big factor in the game changing. Wonder what the league positions would be if he had missed three quarters of the season and Raul hadn’t.
Good goal by Fabio that will help him and I would start him ahead of Jose now. And Vitinha looked a live wire when he came on
posted on 5/4/21
I think there are things to be positive about there. We played well for the most part, with Fabio Silva, Ait-Nouri and Vitinha all looking good whilst they were on the pitch.
I think Nuno has a decision now. Go back to the three at the back, defend the edge of the box model and grind out points or play that way till the end of the season and try to build something for next season. Personally, I'd prefer the second option. We all know our defensive frailties and hopefully we'll address that in the summer.
I said at the start of the season that I would settle for a lower position if we saw some progress that would make us better off long term. I stand by that and am much more positive about us overall after that game, than I would be if we had got a 0-0 draw through another snoozefest.
posted on 5/4/21
Just seen the goals again and four at the back makes no difference to any of them. Allowing players to run that far with the ball through midfield is criminal, Donk for the first one just gives up and let's him plow on.
Seems those blaming four at the back just want us to sit deep keeping bodies back and not try and attack. That is why we look compact, not because we have three or two CBs.
posted on 5/4/21
Completely agree Tam, take much more from that game than any 0-0 borefest.
posted on 5/4/21
So much for my hunch that we would win but did think there would be goals, nice finish by Fabio, W H pretty decent side even without Rice
posted on 5/4/21
I think a fit Podence second half and we probably get something out of that game as well. The two CFs spell didn't really do anything.
posted on 5/4/21
comment by Cinciwolf---A top 20 brand in world football (U11551)
posted 3 minutes ago
Just seen the goals again and four at the back makes no difference to any of them. Allowing players to run that far with the ball through midfield is criminal, Donk for the first one just gives up and let's him plow on.
Seems those blaming four at the back just want us to sit deep keeping bodies back and not try and attack. That is why we look compact, not because we have three or two CBs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Donk was trying not to foul for the first goal, in a position where he should absolutely be trying to foul.
If our midfielders and defenders had committed tactical fouls for the first and third goals, both would have been prevented. West Ham would absolutely have committed those fouls were the situations reversed.
posted on 5/4/21
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 10 minutes ago
I think there are things to be positive about there. We played well for the most part, with Fabio Silva, Ait-Nouri and Vitinha all looking good whilst they were on the pitch.
I think Nuno has a decision now. Go back to the three at the back, defend the edge of the box model and grind out points or play that way till the end of the season and try to build something for next season. Personally, I'd prefer the second option. We all know our defensive frailties and hopefully we'll address that in the summer.
I said at the start of the season that I would settle for a lower position if we saw some progress that would make us better off long term. I stand by that and am much more positive about us overall after that game, than I would be if we had got a 0-0 draw through another snoozefest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with that. I really enjoyed that game despite losing and has been said we only lost because of woeful defending in the first half.
Having said I agree, I would only persist with a back 4 if it was Semedo, Coady, Boly, Jonny. I think they are the only 4 we have that can make it work. With Jonny gone for the season and Boly out for the next game I just don't see it being any better against Fulham than it was tonight.
posted on 5/4/21
I thought Ait-Nouri was good tonight. I'd prefer not to play Saiss there, but I think we should still stick with it if Boly isn't back next game.
posted on 5/4/21
Totally agree with the comment about making tactical/ cynical fouls, much as it pains me to say it and yes they sure would have done had the roles been reversed
posted on 6/4/21
Oh dear Ding1e5...... 🤣
Have the wheels come off the D1ngle5 bus as the Mighty Baggieman predicted?
posted on 6/4/21
Slipping down the league table I notice Ding1e5 ?
Are yowm being dragged into a relegation battle Ding1e5?
posted on 6/4/21
comment by Cinciwolf---A top 20 brand in world football (U11551)
posted 5 minutes ago
Just seen the goals again and four at the back makes no difference to any of them. Allowing players to run that far with the ball through midfield is criminal, Donk for the first one just gives up and let's him plow on.
Seems those blaming four at the back just want us to sit deep keeping bodies back and not try and attack. That is why we look compact, not because we have three or two CBs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The issue is that our defenders, Coady and Saiss in particular, aren't big solid CBs that work together as a unit, they need cover either side of them, they channel runners in to areas where they can be crowded out but get them one on one with space either side and they're screwed, they don't like being the last man. They defend a bit like midfielders which works OK in a three but not with two as we've seen too many times now.
We all want to see more attacking play in the vein of yesterday's game but not at the price of conceding 3 goals in a half. The three CB plus wing backs served us well, gave us extra attacking threats plus cover against breaks. The issue this season has been that the squad is weaker, Semedo hasn't performed to the consistent standards we enjoyed from Doherty and neither has Ait Nouri compared with Jonny. (Although I did think he had a solid game last night). It's certainly not a case of if you're an advocate of a back 3 then you necessarily
want safety first football, far from it.
posted on 6/4/21
It looked to me that we played with only two in the middle with wing backs. If Donk was to be the other defender, he was all over the place. It seemed that only Neves played in the midfield with the three attackers in front of him and Jose in front of them. We totally surrendered midfield and we were lucky that West Ham did not score more.
It looked great going forward, but as mentioned our two defenders were all over the place.
To be fair, at the end of the game I thought we deserved a draw.
posted on 6/4/21
I do think yesterday in the first half an hour or so was the most open we have looked defensively under Nuno. I think we have to be grateful that Antonio went off injured because up to that point then a 4 or 5 goal hammering looked a distinct possibility.
Saiss and Coady are just not strong enough centre backs to play in a back four. When players run at them or turn them they are left wanting. Neither are good enough midfielders to play in the premier league there so to me they either play in a back three or not at all. Semedo also always looks to have a mistake in him when he plays in a back four. And there seems to be positive vibes on how Ait Nouri played last night. Personally I didn’t see anything different from him to what we already know. I don’t recall him doing any good defensive work but when he got on the ball in the opponents half he did some good work.
As an attacking team I can see the positives of a 4231 with the players we have and we played some good stuff at times. Even Jose got some scoring chances. But we just don’t have the defenders to set up this way at the moment, particularly without Boly and Jonny. Even poor teams like Albion and Brighton have got three against us playing this way, and you won’t win many games after conceding 3.
Other positives last night were the cameos of Fabio and Vitinha who both look to me like players we can be confident about for the future.
But let’s leave a 4 man back line until we have signed one or two more top defenders suited to playing that way
posted on 6/4/21
I fail to see how a different formation would have led to a different outcome in any of their goals last night? Can someone explain it to me?
The problem last night was really poor defending, not the way they were set up.
posted on 6/4/21
As an interesting stat -
In 18/19 we conceded 46 goals, the 4th best defensive record in the league
In 19/20 we conceded 40 goals, the 4th best defensive record in the league
In 20/21 we have played 20 games with 3 at the back and conceded 21. An average of just over 1 a game, the 2nd best defensive record in the league
In 20/21 we have played 10 games with 4 at the back and conceded 20. An average of 2 a game. The worst defensive record in the league.
posted on 6/4/21
2 points from our last 5 matches.
posted on 6/4/21
comment by Spangles (U17289)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
As an interesting stat -
In 18/19 we conceded 46 goals, the 4th best defensive record in the league
In 19/20 we conceded 40 goals, the 4th best defensive record in the league
In 20/21 we have played 20 games with 3 at the back and conceded 21. An average of just over 1 a game, the 2nd best defensive record in the league
In 20/21 we have played 10 games with 4 at the back and conceded 20. An average of 2 a game. The worst defensive record in the league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
back four or back five would have made little difference - The donk plays CM or CB in either formation he watched Messi Lingard dance past him
posted on 6/4/21
When we were talking some months ago about changing from a 3 to a 4 I said then that we dont have the goals in our forward play to justify it.
We are best as a defensive minded counter attacking team.
posted on 6/4/21
comment by Huge Richard (U8869)
posted 1 minute ago
When we were talking some months ago about changing from a 3 to a 4 I said then that we dont have the goals in our forward play to justify it.
We are best as a defensive minded counter attacking team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
we carved out a lot of chances last night but if our spine wasn't so soft and we had more Italians/Argies/Germans in it that understand how to take a man out on halfway we'd have only conceded the 1 goal
Page 9 of 10
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